Diablo Mining Company

[SebastianJu]

*facepalm* What a shark tanke... It really looks like glbse needs some stricter rules to protect shareholders. For example the force that ipo-price cant be changed once its set or the first share is sold. Or that an ipo cant go on forever. Maybe a month only or so.

Unfortunately a hardcoded price wouldnt be a help when simply moving shares to another account. This had to be disabled then to give more protection. But i doubt that can be done.

But when a solution could be found this could give at least some protection. The rest, regarding the investmentabilities of the securityowner, is a risk that cant be taken down.

When enforcing such a rule one cant buy himself voters anymore for cheap. So when someone is claiming to run this business one way and is doing another thing afterwards a motion would ensure that every share that can vote has the same value.

GLBSE is young... so ok... its not as secure as it could be. On the other hand it looks like its really hard to really secure it. So when someone wants to be sure he should really really only buy shares from old established projects where he knows what the past showed. But on the other hand this would be the dead to all new projects.

[1714021596]

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[1714021596]

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[MrTeal]

This thread makes me cry on the inside. Up until this last little deal with Usagi, it really looks like Diablo was trying. For those saying it doesn't matter if Diablo is an investment genius as long as he would be a good DC operator, it does when the entire DMC mining operation is an investment portfolio. This portfolio was managed with such monumental incompetence that it would have been better if the coins were kept liquid and each week 20% were sent to 1BitcoinEaterAddressDontSendf59kuE.

[DiabloD3]

I'm crossquoting this from the TYGRR delisting thread

This is starting to remind me of bitcoinica and intersango behaviour. The users dont deserve to get screwed over because the owner of a site has a hissy fit.

I hope it works out amicably and soon.

Nefario used to work for Intersango but got fired when he froze my account the first time.

I don't know if there is much more I can do until Nefario deals with this and explains his actions.

I have also been looking into some of the legal stuff and I don't know if I can accept "codes" or assets from people who I know are Americans. I might even have to check IDs and address. I let GLBSE act as the broker and the exchange before so now that they want me to make more actions than I agreed to I will have to check and see if it is in fact legal and what is the legal way to do it.

This has become a mess and I agree it is the asset holders who will be hurt most.   

Anyway if anyone know more about Americans dealing with securities directly with other Americans please let me know. Thanks.

[MPOE-PR]

This thread makes me cry on the inside. Up until this last little deal with Usagi, it really looks like Diablo was trying. For those saying it doesn't matter if Diablo is an investment genius as long as he would be a good DC operator, it does when the entire DMC mining operation is an investment portfolio. This portfolio was managed with such monumental incompetence that it would have been better if the coins were kept liquid and each week 20% were sent to 1BitcoinEaterAddressDontSendf59kuE.

7% a week. Let's not get greedy here.

[MrTeal]

This thread makes me cry on the inside. Up until this last little deal with Usagi, it really looks like Diablo was trying. For those saying it doesn't matter if Diablo is an investment genius as long as he would be a good DC operator, it does when the entire DMC mining operation is an investment portfolio. This portfolio was managed with such monumental incompetence that it would have been better if the coins were kept liquid and each week 20% were sent to 1BitcoinEaterAddressDontSendf59kuE.

7% a week. Let's not get greedy here.

Well, it's been about 20 weeks since the IPO, so to get the NAV down to about 0.062 from 1 you'd have to burn 13% of the coins per week. We'll have to split the difference.

[MPOE-PR]

Well, it's been about 20 weeks since the IPO, so to get the NAV down to about 0.062 from 1 you'd have to burn 13% of the coins per week. We'll have to split the difference.

Shared negativity!

[nebulus]

tl

Well, it's been about 20 weeks since the IPO, so to get the NAV down to about 0.062 from 1 you'd have to burn 13% of the coins per week. We'll have to split the difference.

Shared negativity!

and how do you plan to do that with your "5" shares?

[Puppet]

Well, it's been about 20 weeks since the IPO, so to get the NAV down to about 0.062 from 1 you'd have to burn 13% of the coins per week. We'll have to split the difference.

Another perspective;  judging by Pirate debt prices,  someone who invested in Pirate at the same time DMC IPO'd, never withdrew a penny, always reinvested his dividends, got caught by total surprise when pirate defaulted, waited more than a month after the default before accepting this reality and selling his worthless debt, would still have lost less than someone who bought in to DMC.  And yet we are supposed to believe there is no wrong doing here.

[nebulus]

Well, it's been about 20 weeks since the IPO, so to get the NAV down to about 0.062 from 1 you'd have to burn 13% of the coins per week. We'll have to split the difference.

Another perspective;  judging by Pirate debt prices,  someone who invested in Pirate at the same time DMC IPO'd, never withdrew a penny, always reinvested his dividends, got caught by total surprise when pirate defaulted, waited more than a month after the default before accepting this reality and selling his worthless debt, would still have lost less than someone who bought in to DMC.  And yet we are supposed to believe there is no wrong doing here.

Man, it's not about making you believe anything. It's about having some faith that Diablo as a CEO will figure this one out. WTF, is the point of your flame posts anyway?

If you follow the books ( or whatever there is on DMC's holdings) there was either a bad judgement call on investments or you have to be patient.
There was no scam. Are you even invested in this?

[MPOE-PR]

Well, it's been about 20 weeks since the IPO, so to get the NAV down to about 0.062 from 1 you'd have to burn 13% of the coins per week. We'll have to split the difference.

Another perspective;  judging by Pirate debt prices,  someone who invested in Pirate at the same time DMC IPO'd, never withdrew a penny, always reinvested his dividends, got caught by total surprise when pirate defaulted, waited more than a month after the default before accepting this reality and selling his worthless debt, would still have lost less than someone who bought in to DMC.  And yet we are supposed to believe there is no wrong doing here.

Ironically, the scenario actually fits a lot of people.

[Red Emerald]

I'm crossquoting this from the TYGRR delisting thread

This is starting to remind me of bitcoinica and intersango behaviour. The users dont deserve to get screwed over because the owner of a site has a hissy fit.

I hope it works out amicably and soon.

Nefario used to work for Intersango but got fired when he froze my account the first time.

I don't know if there is much more I can do until Nefario deals with this and explains his actions.

I have also been looking into some of the legal stuff and I don't know if I can accept "codes" or assets from people who I know are Americans. I might even have to check IDs and address. I let GLBSE act as the broker and the exchange before so now that they want me to make more actions than I agreed to I will have to check and see if it is in fact legal and what is the legal way to do it.

This has become a mess and I agree it is the asset holders who will be hurt most.   

Anyway if anyone know more about Americans dealing with securities directly with other Americans please let me know. Thanks.

So you are an American building the company in America.  Do you have any response to this?  Sounds pretty important if the company is going to keep going ahead with building a DC.

[DiabloD3]

So you are an American building the company in America.  Do you have any response to this?  Sounds pretty important if the company is going to keep going ahead with building a DC.

I was quoting that more for the whole "nefario was fired from intersango" part than the "Americans are fucked" part.

[Red Emerald]

So you are an American building the company in America.  Do you have any response to this?  Sounds pretty important if the company is going to keep going ahead with building a DC.

I was quoting that more for the whole "nefario was fired from intersango" part than the "Americans are fucked" part.

I think both parts are important.  Do you not have an answer?

[DiabloD3]

So you are an American building the company in America.  Do you have any response to this?  Sounds pretty important if the company is going to keep going ahead with building a DC.

I was quoting that more for the whole "nefario was fired from intersango" part than the "Americans are fucked" part.

I think both parts are important.  Do you not have an answer?

I don't hold any Goat assets, so what hes talking about doesn't apply to me I think.

[Red Emerald]

So you are an American building the company in America.  Do you have any response to this?  Sounds pretty important if the company is going to keep going ahead with building a DC.

I was quoting that more for the whole "nefario was fired from intersango" part than the "Americans are fucked" part.

I think both parts are important.  Do you not have an answer?

I don't hold any Goat assets, so what hes talking about doesn't apply to me I think.

My question has nothing to do with Goat.  It has to do with you selling shares on an unregulated exchange as an American for an American company.  Do you not think this has a potential to be a problem in the future? It seems to me that you are avoiding answering.

[Red Emerald]

So you are an American building the company in America.  Do you have any response to this?  Sounds pretty important if the company is going to keep going ahead with building a DC.

I was quoting that more for the whole "nefario was fired from intersango" part than the "Americans are fucked" part.

I think both parts are important.  Do you not have an answer?

I don't hold any Goat assets, so what hes talking about doesn't apply to me I think.

My question has nothing to do with Goat.  It has to do with you selling shares on an unregulated exchange as an American for an American company.  Do you not think this has a potential to be a problem in the future? It seems to me that you are avoiding answering.

I don't think he knows how to answer this. I think this because I don't know how to answer this...

Yeah. I don't think anyone has an answer.  I think its foolish to move ahead with a company, especially one that Diablo wants to be so large, without some sort of idea of the legal problems ahead.

[DiabloD3]

So you are an American building the company in America.  Do you have any response to this?  Sounds pretty important if the company is going to keep going ahead with building a DC.

I was quoting that more for the whole "nefario was fired from intersango" part than the "Americans are fucked" part.

I think both parts are important.  Do you not have an answer?

I don't hold any Goat assets, so what hes talking about doesn't apply to me I think.

My question has nothing to do with Goat.  It has to do with you selling shares on an unregulated exchange as an American for an American company.  Do you not think this has a potential to be a problem in the future? It seems to me that you are avoiding answering.

I'm not avoiding the question, you just didn't make clear thats what your question was.

To be honest, with our current government, EVERYTHING might be a problem and be illegal in the future. Congress has repeatedly voted against small business owners (the same businesses that employ 60% of this country) and do everything possible to stop innovation and entrepreneurship especially when it comes to technology.

I can't hide in fear because Congress is going to come and take my business away on a whip, if I do that, they win.

[DiabloD3]

So you are an American building the company in America.  Do you have any response to this?  Sounds pretty important if the company is going to keep going ahead with building a DC.

I was quoting that more for the whole "nefario was fired from intersango" part than the "Americans are fucked" part.

I think both parts are important.  Do you not have an answer?

I don't hold any Goat assets, so what hes talking about doesn't apply to me I think.

My question has nothing to do with Goat.  It has to do with you selling shares on an unregulated exchange as an American for an American company.  Do you not think this has a potential to be a problem in the future? It seems to me that you are avoiding answering.

I'm not avoiding the question, you just didn't make clear thats what your question was.

To be honest, with our current government, EVERYTHING might be a problem and be illegal in the future. Congress has repeatedly voted against small business owners (the same businesses that employ 60% of this country) and do everything possible to stop innovation and entrepreneurship especially when it comes to technology.

I can't hide in fear because Congress is going to come and take my business away on a whip, if I do that, they win.

I think he is asking about right now, not what might happen in the future.

I think its up to nefario on this one. If he ends up just closing GLBSE and shafting asset creators and shareholders, then its game over.

[Puppet]

I think its up to nefario on this one. If he ends up just closing GLBSE and shafting asset creators and shareholders, then its game over.

Try not to forget you already shafted your shareholders for 95% of their investment.

[Deprived]

I've said this enough. If you don't understand what happened I'll explain it to you. ASICMINER will mine at 155mhash/share for itself. This is a guarantee. If their asics are good they will be 155/share. For 0.1 btc a share. Stop and think. Gigamining is worth 0.67 now, down around 60%. DMC went from 1 to .4 before the asicminer deal. About the same. At that time DMC was 5 or 6 mhash a share. After the ASICMINER deal DMC went to over 7 mhash a share with a conservative ASICMINER valuation of 30mhash/share.

I haven't bothered previously pointing out just how retarded this whole line of argument is.  But here's what usagi and Diablo both missed when using it:

IF the asicminer deal was for XXXMhash/share NOW then it would be a great deal.  But it's not.

When asics come online guess what?  The power of the network is going to massively increase.  And  each MH/Share THEN will only be generating the same BTC as a small percentage of that MH/Share generates now - and that's totally ignoring that difficulty will likely increase anyway (even if ASICs never show up) and block-halving.

IF asicminer gets its ASICs out significantly before any other ASIC producer then they'll be a great investment (and likely that trade would have worked out OK).  In all other scenarios there's no way that trade would ever be anywhere near a decent one.  Treating the first scenario as a certainty is entirely stupid.

Aside from anything else the trade valued ASICMINER at about 10 times their market value.  If that happened to be true then why:

a) didn't anyone else spot it?
b) didn't all of usagi's companies sell all their other assets and buy ASICMINER?
c) didn't Diablo just sell off some of the DMC shares on the market and BUY ASICMINEr shares for a fraction of the price he ascribed to them in his handouts?
d) didn't it ever cross usagi's mind that "I've been wrong in just about every other mining share I've valued (e,g, buying tons of fixed MH/s mining bonds at prices which could NEVER be profitable with ANY realistic model of future difficulty)- so likely I'm just full of shit as usual this time"?

The only sensible answer is that usagi isn't actually as totally brain-dead as its justification of the deal makes it appear.  Rather, usagi KNEW the deal was terrible for DMC but managed to talk Diablo into it (and also, apparently, convince nefario it was legit - which means little given that he believes losing 95% of a company's value without any records is perfectly fine).  And now usagi has to continue feeding the totally stupid justification for teh deal out so as to be able to continue to exploit Diablo's total lack of business sense again (e.g. talking him into buying back its shares at double nav).