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Author Topic: BullX.io fair PvP jackpot&coinflip games  (Read 320 times)
Bullx
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December 15, 2020, 11:22:23 PM
 #21

please do check the coin flip section it says the minimum is 100 sats deposit I tried to deposit 100 sats coming from the bonus from it did not accept my deposit even the 200 sats was not accepted i ended up betting 500 sats for this game, I hope you can fix it


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Yeah, thanks. We will fix that.
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December 16, 2020, 06:00:27 PM
 #22

Promo code didn't worth that much as it is only worth less than 1 usd so I am not so sure if there will be users that will take their time to insert the promo code just to get a penny.

It will be good if you can make your FAQ page more accessible as it is very hard to see as it is located in the left page where only images can be seen like question mark image for FAQ page. There are no problems with the overall design of the page as it is simple but you should consider putting your other pages in the footer or header if possible so the users can easily find it.

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December 16, 2020, 06:48:00 PM
 #23

I've seen several PvP casinos before but they're no longer that popular with the chosen games they want to have on their website. The idea that you've just brought is new about the PvP coinflip. I think you should be good if the players who are ready and placed their bets can be against to a bot that's provably fair.

If they've been waiting for a long time to have someone fight against them, there should be at least an option to flip the coin even if there's no opponent and that will automatically goes against to bullx.




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December 16, 2020, 07:21:33 PM
 #24

Promo code didn't worth that much as it is only worth less than 1 usd so I am not so sure if there will be users that will take their time to insert the promo code just to get a penny.

The promo code is just a free satoshi for users to try the site without any risks, it is like one time faucet.
Do you think it will be better if the promo code is worth $1 or more? Dont you think about "abuse"?
Even few hundred satoshi can be abused so it does not make senses if you suggest them to give higher amount for the promo.

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December 17, 2020, 05:41:35 PM
Merited by stomachgrowls (1)
 #25

Creating PvP gaming platform doesn't relieve casino from being a fair party in the bet. Even though it's a game between players, casino still must be fair party and must have no control over the result of the bets.

However, I tested Bullx.io and found that site has full control over the bet because -
(i) 10 bitcoin addresses are generated by the site before the game starts
(ii) decoding is shifted by 'n' places depending upon a number which is obtained by the formula unknown to the player

Bullx.io can use this as the backdoor and cheat players in the following two ways -

  • After a player creates the coinflip game, site now has access to the following information - 10 bitcoin addresses, amount of the game, UNIX timestamp of the player. Site can loop over the next 10 - 60 seconds and select the UNIX timestamp for the second player which when used in the formula selects 'a bitcoin address' among 10 addresses such that results favor the second player. Now Bullx.io can pose as the genuine site player and join the coinflip as the second player and win the bet.

  • After a player creates the coinflip game, site now has access to the following information - 10 bitcoin addresses, amount of the game, UNIX timestamp of the player. Bullx.io can now join the coinflip at the random UNIX timestamp as the second player. When bitcoin address is selected based on the formula, Bullx.io can then shift the characters of the address for decoding such that the result favors the second player and win the bet. Since formula of shifting the characters is not known to the players, no one will know if characters are shifted as per the formula or not.

To be honest, I really like the way you thought of using bitcoin addresses in provably fair mechanism and converting Base58 to Base10 in equally distributed probability to calculate the final result. But the fundamental of your provably fair script is wrong! Casino mustn't have complete control over the result generation process else it can't be called Provably Fair.

By the way, isn't 10% on winnings too high as the commission?

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December 17, 2020, 06:48:21 PM
 #26

Casino mustn't have complete control over the result generation process else it can't be called Provably Fair.

By the way, isn't 10% on winnings too high as the commission?

Hands down with this input.! Anything that can be controlled on would really always have the tendency for some manipulation or rigging of things when theres sudden change of minds.  Cheesy
It truly remove the essence of fairness knowing that the casino is really capable on controlling the generation process.We do want to see that everything should really be random
and that will really built up some confidence.

10% on winnings is really too high which would really be already a big issue for players not to play and next will be the type of game that theyre offering
which isnt something that had been preferred by this market.

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Bullx
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December 17, 2020, 08:41:00 PM
 #27

Creating PvP gaming platform doesn't relieve casino from being a fair party in the bet. Even though it's a game between players, casino still must be fair party and must have no control over the result of the bets.

However, I tested Bullx.io and found that site has full control over the bet because -
(i) 10 bitcoin addresses are generated by the site before the game starts
(ii) decoding is shifted by 'n' places depending upon a number which is obtained by the formula unknown to the player

Bullx.io can use this as the backdoor and cheat players in the following two ways -

  • After a player creates the coinflip game, site now has access to the following information - 10 bitcoin addresses, amount of the game, UNIX timestamp of the player. Site can loop over the next 10 - 60 seconds and select the UNIX timestamp for the second player which when used in the formula selects 'a bitcoin address' among 10 addresses such that results favor the second player. Now Bullx.io can pose as the genuine site player and join the coinflip as the second player and win the bet.

  • After a player creates the coinflip game, site now has access to the following information - 10 bitcoin addresses, amount of the game, UNIX timestamp of the player. Bullx.io can now join the coinflip at the random UNIX timestamp as the second player. When bitcoin address is selected based on the formula, Bullx.io can then shift the characters of the address for decoding such that the result favors the second player and win the bet. Since formula of shifting the characters is not known to the players, no one will know if characters are shifted as per the formula or not.

To be honest, I really like the way you thought of using bitcoin addresses in provably fair mechanism and converting Base58 to Base10 in equally distributed probability to calculate the final result. But the fundamental of your provably fair script is wrong! Casino mustn't have complete control over the result generation process else it can't be called Provably Fair.

By the way, isn't 10% on winnings too high as the commission?

Thanks for the analysis.
"decoding is shifted by 'n' places depending upon a number which is obtained by the formula unknown to the player"

About the formula unknown to the player https://prnt.sc/w4x0mn
The shift will be equal to the last digit obtained from the formula.


Yes, we thought about coinflip long enough. Entering the game at the right moment is quite difficult based on the code execution time it can take up to 50 ms to send one request. But I think this is quite possible under ideal conditions. We will solve this problem by adding one more value that we cannot find out until the end of the game.

I have already answered about the shift formula

The site does not indicate anywhere that the commission is 10%. We have a 5% commission on jackpot and coinflip.

Currently the commission is:
5% (for jackpot); 5% (for a coinflip); 10% of the net house Profit is taken by the daily jackpot(0.5%)
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December 18, 2020, 03:42:32 PM
 #28

~snip~

Thanks for the analysis.
"decoding is shifted by 'n' places depending upon a number which is obtained by the formula unknown to the player"

About the formula unknown to the player https://prnt.sc/w4x0mn
The shift will be equal to the last digit obtained from the formula.

Actually the bet results on your website differ from the steps mentioned in the screenshot, that's why I raised the doubt. As per the screenshot and instructions on 'fair' page, first we need to add the numbers obtained from the formula, e.g. 87. Then we need to add these two numbers, i.e. 8+7 = 15. Now, last digit i.e. 5th address from the list will be used for result calculation.

However, now consider these examples of real bets from the website:

Game #296 (I played this one) - https://bullx.io/verify/coinflip/296

Number obtained from the formula = 62
Total of two numbers = 08
Address from the list taken = 3rd
Decoding shift = 3 characters

Game #305 - https://bullx.io/verify/coinflip/305

Number obtained from the formula = 84
Total of two numbers = 12
Address from the list taken = 5th
Decoding shift = 7 characters

So, as per the instruction on the 'fair' page, 8th and 2nd address should be taken in the case of game 296 and game 305 respectively. Whereas, shifting should have been 2 and 4 characters resp.

However, you can see that different address and decoding are being used. For the address, last digit of the number obtained is taken i.e. 2+1 = 3 and 8+1 = 5. I verified it with all coinflip games and address selection is constant as per this. But I am still unable to figure out how decoding is being shifted? Why 3 characters are shifted in game #296 and 7 in #305? This is not as per the formula mentioned on 'fair' page.



Yes, we thought about coinflip long enough. Entering the game at the right moment is quite difficult based on the code execution time it can take up to 50 ms to send one request. But I think this is quite possible under ideal conditions. We will solve this problem by adding one more value that we cannot find out until the end of the game.

Entering the game at the right moment is difficult for the third-party but not for site itself. When calling endpoint to update database with the UNIX timestamp of second player, site can send the custom UNIX to overwrite the auto-timestamp. For example, site may calculate that at 1608203643 second player will win the bet. So, it can send endpoint exactly at 1608203643 with custom value of Second user Timestamp = 1608203643. So even if 1-2 seconds elapse to run the HTTP request, code will overwrite timestamp from let say 1608203644/1608203645 back to 1608203643.

So, yes please, add another variable over which both player and site mustn't have any control until the game finish.




The site does not indicate anywhere that the commission is 10%. We have a 5% commission on jackpot and coinflip.

Currently the commission is:
5% (for jackpot); 5% (for a coinflip); 10% of the net house Profit is taken by the daily jackpot(0.5%)

Yeah! I said 10% of the winnings which is equal to 5% of the total bet size. So, if I as a player bet 0.0001 BTC, I will only win 0.00009 BTC (i.e. 90% of my bet size). I think this is very high for any player to play on the site for long period of time. Player is tend to lose 5% of his money with constant luck. In my views, PvP platform should have at max 3-5% commission on winnings (i.e. 1.5-2.5% on total bet size).

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December 18, 2020, 04:50:13 PM
 #29

I would like to ask if you could add more pvp games I think you were the first cryptocurrency based casino I see that only offers pvp games I think that's really a unique feature for a gambling website.

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December 19, 2020, 02:05:52 PM
Last edit: December 19, 2020, 02:23:56 PM by acroman08
 #30

I created a room an was interested in trying out the game but there seems to be no one playing.

@OP it would be good to add a non-pvp game just to have a little more variety of games on your website so if there are just a few gamblers they can still play on your website even when there are no rooms available for them to join.

I would like to ask if you could add more pvp games I think you were the first cryptocurrency based casino I see that only offers pvp games I think that's really a unique feature for a gambling website.
not really, duelbits, for instance, have a PVP dice game called "dice duels" just like what sunsilk said there have been several PVP gambling game casino that has come and go.

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December 19, 2020, 02:35:44 PM
 #31

I would like to ask if you could add more pvp games I think you were the first cryptocurrency based casino I see that only offers pvp games I think that's really a unique feature for a gambling website.

It seems that you are so new in this crypto gambling industry, pvp games has been in this industry for years already so it is absolutely wrong to say that this site is the first site to offer pvp based game only. There were many other sites but many of them failed to survive due to the lack of interest or failed to attract gamblers. Having pvp games only will be a great challenge for the owner to compete with other gambling sites.

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December 19, 2020, 04:27:55 PM
 #32

I created a room an was interested in trying out the game but there seems to be no one playing.

@OP it would be good to add a non-pvp game just to have a little more variety of games on your website so if there are just a few gamblers they can still play on your website even when there are no rooms available for them to join.

I would like to ask if you could add more pvp games I think you were the first cryptocurrency based casino I see that only offers pvp games I think that's really a unique feature for a gambling website.
not really, duelbits, for instance, have a PVP dice game called "dice duels" just like what sunsilk said there have been several PVP gambling game casino that has come and go.

Well looks like the PVP games is not that really popular I wonder how will BullX will get active players and will let them stay on their website? Do you think promotion would be enough?
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December 19, 2020, 06:18:00 PM
 #33

Welcome to the forum. Why don't you format the thread like a typical ANN thread, supplying the first post with some screenshots and more information?
The design looks simple, but appealing. I also like it that you have detailed information about various policies. I have a question about one of the rules, though: I get it why begging is against the chat rules, but why are donations forbidden? I mean, if a person wins something and want to make tips to some people who are online, why not make it a possibility? And rainbots are also somewhat common for chats. And the ban on "mentioning any third-party resources" in the chat is also pretty tough IMO. For instance, someone googled something and wants to share info about it, but this person can't say "I googled it", right, because it mentions Google? Or if a person asks something like "anyone here from Bitcointalk?", it's also a violation.
Good luck!

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December 19, 2020, 06:33:16 PM
 #34

Well looks like the PVP games is not that really popular
yeah, I think people just don't want to wait for a couple of meaning maybe longer before they can gamble. that is why I think putting a non-PVP game on their website will benefit them.

I wonder how will BullX will get active players and will let them stay on their website?
like I said putting a variety of games on their website(preferably non-PVP game) might help them attract gamblers.

Do you think promotion would be enough?
in my own opinion? No. promotion is a good way to attract gamblers but that alone is not enough.

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December 19, 2020, 06:48:54 PM
 #35

Well looks like the PVP games is not that really popular
yeah, I think people just don't want to wait for a couple of meaning maybe longer before they can gamble. that is why I think putting a non-PVP game on their website will benefit them.

I wonder how will BullX will get active players and will let them stay on their website?
like I said putting a variety of games on their website(preferably non-PVP game) might help them attract gamblers.

Do you think promotion would be enough?
in my own opinion? No. promotion is a good way to attract gamblers but that alone is not enough.

Yes I think promotion is not enough I suggest to add some games that can be played alone by user and that they should not waste time waiting for other players maybe have a feature like an option to choose whether a player could be play against pvp or player vs bot.

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December 30, 2020, 03:02:30 PM
 #36

I understand that your site is still very young, since there are still very few users who have registered. Perhaps as a beginner it will be easier for me to start along with the development of a new project. The interface is really very good, but not too bright, and the number of people visited depends on it. Please tell me if there is a possibility of playing with the selected opponent or the opponent is automatically recognized in a random order?

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