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Author Topic: What level of tyranny will you live under ?  (Read 3392 times)
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April 24, 2012, 09:18:12 AM
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the exact amount you are willing to put up with.
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April 24, 2012, 09:43:12 AM
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7
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April 24, 2012, 10:28:03 AM
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It's 42, right?

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April 24, 2012, 10:34:11 AM
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Actually, it's the exact amount the majority of other people are willing to put up with. Which wouldn't be so bad but for the fact that the majority of other people just don't give a damn about their freedom. Angry

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April 24, 2012, 09:02:48 PM
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I'm willing to live under the "Tyranny of the Majority" (direct democracy), but only if it's limited by a constitution. It was actually a factor in my decision to move to California.

Every time I say this, some wise guy reponds "Direct democracy in California is terrible! What about gay rights? Nice budget you got there lolz!" so I'll respond preemptively. Yes, it has its flaws, but it's a step in the right direction. DD allows legislation that doesn't already have a big supporting corporation to get passed, like medical cannabis. Ideally I'd prefer to do away with elected representatives entirely, replacing them with futarchy and delegated voting.

And yes, I would still prefer EVEN LESS tyranny than democracy, but majority rule is the worst I will tolerate for now. No "Tyranny of the Minority" for me, thank you - that rules out the corporatism brought about by a purely representative democracy. I demand an actual say, not filtered through some Republocrat slimeball.
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April 24, 2012, 09:20:38 PM
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Tyranny is such a strong word. The more people you cram into a state (ahem, CA) the more "tyranny" youre going to need. Less elbow room, less resources, less privacy for everyone simply because theres so many people trying to get along with each other, so more regulation of what you can and can't do. By contrast lets head over to North Dakota where there is miles and miles of nothing and no one. Who is gonna care if you do 90 mph down an empty highway, or light some firecrackers, or build a 25 ft tall wind turbine? Who is around to even notice? I guess my point is: population density leads to "tyranny", and it might actually be necessary to force everyone to get along.
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April 24, 2012, 09:57:39 PM
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Tyranny is such a strong word. The more people you cram into a state (ahem, CA) the more "tyranny" youre going to need. Less elbow room, less resources, less privacy for everyone simply because theres so many people trying to get along with each other, so more regulation of what you can and can't do. By contrast lets head over to North Dakota where there is miles and miles of nothing and no one. Who is gonna care if you do 90 mph down an empty highway, or light some firecrackers, or build a 25 ft tall wind turbine? Who is around to even notice? I guess my point is: population density leads to "tyranny", and it might actually be necessary to force everyone to get along.
So a 7? Wink

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April 26, 2012, 02:09:20 PM
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Actually, it's the exact amount the majority of other people are willing to put up with. Which wouldn't be so bad but for the fact that the majority of other people just don't give a damn about their freedom. Angry
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April 26, 2012, 02:28:25 PM
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I am the tyranny, so... none.
But seriously, I ignore rules that I don't agree with.So... none. Oppression happens in your mind not the perpetrator. That is why some people can be brought to their knees with a few words while others can live free in a prison cell.

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April 26, 2012, 06:08:10 PM
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I am the tyranny, so... none.
But seriously, I ignore rules that I don't agree with.So... none. Oppression happens in your mind not the perpetrator. That is why some people can be brought to their knees with a few words while others can live free in a prison cell.
I'm not so sure being a prison cell is really living free...

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April 26, 2012, 06:59:56 PM
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I am the tyranny, so... none.
But seriously, I ignore rules that I don't agree with.So... none. Oppression happens in your mind not the perpetrator. That is why some people can be brought to their knees with a few words while others can live free in a prison cell.
I'm not so sure being a prison cell is really living free...
Not a great definition, but consider Nelson Mandela or Aung San Su Kyi.  At some level you are free until your broken.

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April 26, 2012, 07:12:57 PM
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I am the tyranny, so... none.
But seriously, I ignore rules that I don't agree with.So... none. Oppression happens in your mind not the perpetrator. That is why some people can be brought to their knees with a few words while others can live free in a prison cell.
I'd rather live under laws I don't agree with outside of a prison cell than under laws I do agree with inside of a prison cell.

Explodicile, what exactly is a direct democracy, and how is it implemented in California?  Whenever state politics come up, California is always (in my mind) the worst example of a working state government.

And I don't see why a majority-rule democracy wouldn't just tax the **** out of the top 10%?  Or 49%, for that matter?  I've never thought that a true democracy was a good idea...
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April 26, 2012, 07:34:32 PM
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And I don't see why a majority-rule democracy wouldn't just tax the **** out of the top 10%?  Or 49%, for that matter?  I've never thought that a true democracy was a good idea...

In the West, democracy is whatever side you want to win...   Democracy of what the elites like is a true democracy, democracy what they don't like is dictatorship. Read the nauseous paens to democracy in rags like Newsweek in that light and it is clear.

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April 26, 2012, 08:17:46 PM
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And I don't see why a majority-rule democracy wouldn't just tax the **** out of the top 10%?  Or 49%, for that matter?  I've never thought that a true democracy was a good idea...

In the West, democracy is whatever side you want to win...   Democracy of what the elites like is a true democracy, democracy what they don't like is dictatorship. Read the nauseous paens to democracy in rags like Newsweek in that light and it is clear.
This made no sense to me whatsoever.
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April 26, 2012, 09:16:49 PM
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And I don't see why a majority-rule democracy wouldn't just tax the **** out of the top 10%?  Or 49%, for that matter?  I've never thought that a true democracy was a good idea...

In the West, democracy is whatever side you want to win...   Democracy of what the elites like is a true democracy, democracy what they don't like is dictatorship. Read the nauseous paens to democracy in rags like Newsweek in that light and it is clear.
This made no sense to me whatsoever.

Sorry, I was assuming a large knowledge of local and foreign political developments that not everyone might be up to speed on.  For a specific examples, see media complaints about the democracies of Russia, Venezuala, and Turkey for the who they think the "correct" democracy should be like and which are "politically incorrect."

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April 26, 2012, 09:32:21 PM
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You are conditioned by their use of the term Democracy in the news, in speeches, print, radio and video. Democracy is simply Mob Rules. The majority forcing their will on the minority. The majority stealing from the minority. Not once is the term "democracy" anywhere in our founding documents or ever spoken or written about by them, but you sure see it in Russian documents and in the writings and speeches of well known Marxist Communists. We have a constitutional Republic. Not a democracy, but how often do you hear the term constitutional republic in the news or from our leaders?

You are being conditioned to accept their Democracy so you will not revolt.

Without our birth rights, the most important of which are codified and ratified in the constitution, we are slaves.

All we need to do is stand up and exert our rights to live truly free. Take them. Whats the worse that can happen? They will cage or kill us so we can be Martyrs for our loved ones, to set that example that will be burned in their minds and hearts so that they may remember and carry the torch?

The problems are the conditioning, ignorance, fear, apathy and disinterest in our own enslavement.
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April 26, 2012, 09:38:56 PM
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And I don't see why a majority-rule democracy wouldn't just tax the **** out of the top 10%?  Or 49%, for that matter?  I've never thought that a true democracy was a good idea...

In the West, democracy is whatever side you want to win...   Democracy of what the elites like is a true democracy, democracy what they don't like is dictatorship. Read the nauseous paens to democracy in rags like Newsweek in that light and it is clear.
This made no sense to me whatsoever.

Sorry, I was assuming a large knowledge of local and foreign political developments that not everyone might be up to speed on.  For a specific examples, see media complaints about the democracies of Russia, Venezuala, and Turkey for the who they think the "correct" democracy should be like and which are "politically incorrect."
You're still confusing me with sentences like this.  I don't know what you're trying to say, beyond look at complaints of democracies in Russia.  You need to proof-read a little more, or something.

Also, I fail to see how looking at complaints of democracies in other countries would answer my question of, "why wouldn't the majority tax the bejeezers out of the minority in a true democracy?"

You are conditioned by their use of the term Democracy in the news, in speeches, print, radio and video. Democracy is simply Mob Rules. The majority forcing their will on the minority. The majority stealing from the minority. Not once is the term "democracy" anywhere in our founding documents or ever spoken or written about by them, but you sure see it in Russian documents and in the writings and speeches of well known Marxist Communists. We have a constitutional Republic. Not a democracy, but how often do you hear the term constitutional republic in the news or from our leaders?

You are being conditioned to accept their Democracy so you will not revolt.

Without our birth rights, the most important of which are codified and ratified in the constitution, we are slaves.

All we need to do is stand up and exert our rights to live truly free. Take them. Whats the worse that can happen? They will cage or kill us so we can be Martyrs for our loved ones, to set that example that will be burned in their minds and hearts so that they may remember and carry the torch?

The problems are the conditioning, ignorance, fear, apathy and disinterest in our own enslavement.
I don't know who you are talking to, but I myself am well aware of what a true democracy is, and just as much aware that the US is a republic, not a democracy like everyone likes to call it.

Also, I'm not sure whether you condone the republic or rebuke it?  Are you a fan of true democracy?  It sounds like you don't like our current government setup, but you also seem to use aggressive wording against democracy.
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April 26, 2012, 10:35:01 PM
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I don't know who you are talking to, but I myself am well aware of what a true democracy is, and just as much aware that the US is a republic, not a democracy like everyone likes to call it.

Also, I'm not sure whether you condone the republic or rebuke it?  Are you a fan of true democracy?  It sounds like you don't like our current government setup, but you also seem to use aggressive wording against democracy.

I am against all Democracy.

I am also against a representative form of government because they are corrupted and do not serve the will of the people. Also the fact that they are so removed from their constituents, who have almost no access to their representatives for redress of grievances.

Every 2 years every town in the USA votes and those votes are counted to elect our leaders. Pretty simple system that has worked for hundreds of years. There is no reason every citizen shouldnt be able to vote in this fashion on legislation that affects them, from local municipal, to state, right up to the judicial, legislative, and executive, if they so choose to participate.

Our system was designed for elites, by elites, for the protection of elites, and the benefit of elites. The system does not work for the everyday citizen serf (you and I).
Now you're not making sense either.

First you say that you are against all democracy, then go on to say that "there is no reason every citizen shouldn't be able to vote in this fashion".  Uh, maybe I had a brain fart, but isn't the very definition of democracy the idea of every person being able to vote on every issue?
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April 26, 2012, 10:35:09 PM
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April 26, 2012, 11:09:03 PM
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I don't know who you are talking to, but I myself am well aware of what a true democracy is, and just as much aware that the US is a republic, not a democracy like everyone likes to call it.

Also, I'm not sure whether you condone the republic or rebuke it?  Are you a fan of true democracy?  It sounds like you don't like our current government setup, but you also seem to use aggressive wording against democracy.

I am against all Democracy.

I am also against a representative form of government because they are corrupted and do not serve the will of the people. Also the fact that they are so removed from their constituents, who have almost no access to their representatives for redress of grievances.

Every 2 years every town in the USA votes and those votes are counted to elect our leaders. Pretty simple system that has worked for hundreds of years. There is no reason every citizen shouldnt be able to vote in this fashion on legislation that affects them, from local municipal, to state, right up to the judicial, legislative, and executive, if they so choose to participate.

Our system was designed for elites, by elites, for the protection of elites, and the benefit of elites. The system does not work for the everyday citizen serf (you and I).
Now you're not making sense either.

First you say that you are against all democracy, then go on to say that "there is no reason every citizen shouldn't be able to vote in this fashion".  Uh, maybe I had a brain fart, but isn't the very definition of democracy the idea of every person being able to vote on every issue?

You can still vote in a Republic form of government on various issues and concerns. The hingepin is none of it means squat if it violates our rights. When it becomes a representative form of government and the people have no say other than voting in their representatives, means the people have no real voice.

For instance, how many citizens would vote in legislation that allows our President to shut down the internet or kill a citizen without due process versus how many compromised representatives who would do the same?

Instead of thinking in terms of how it is now, think of the design that was originally proposed to the people.

Government doesnt need to be a career job. It should be everyday people, for the people.

Voting is not a democracy if the votes violate our rights. Mob rules voting with no concern for our rights is a democracy.

EDITED to correct context.
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