The day mining become unprofitable!

[inBitweTrust]

These are technical limitation, which can be overcome, probably pretty soon too, don't be shortsighted. 10 years ago, you wouldn't imagine watching a 1080p movie on your cellphone, it was technically impossible. Yet nowadays every flagship cellphone can do this easily.

Also again, a PoS mining app does not needs to be run constantly, you can just run it every few days if you'd like.

Yes, we are talking about active nodes to support a global marketplace. So yes, the nodes need to be on and working for security and to process the transaction volume.

I am a geek and am factoring in "science fiction" into my predictions. So assuming that all cellphones are wireless charged in the future(likely), and assuming that nanotube batteries are developed, than .....hmmm, well in that case I may be wrong.....

Granted this doesn't address the other problems with DPoS and PoS security.... but perhaps a hybrid approach could be feasible in 20-40 years..... but this is assuming  that technology for PoW wont change as well.... so we are really just speculating and the most we can know is that right now PoS doesn't appear to be a good suggestion.

[1715227342]

1715227342

[1715227342]

1715227342

[kokojie]

These are technical limitation, which can be overcome, probably pretty soon too, don't be shortsighted. 10 years ago, you wouldn't imagine watching a 1080p movie on your cellphone, it was technically impossible. Yet nowadays every flagship cellphone can do this easily.

Also again, a PoS mining app does not needs to be run constantly, you can just run it every few days if you'd like.

Yes, we are talking about active nodes to support a global marketplace. So yes, the nodes need to be on and working for security and to process the transaction volume.

I am a a geek and am factoring in "science fiction" into my predictions. So assuming that all cellphones are wireless charged in the future(likely), and assuming that nanotube batteries are developed, than .....hmmm, well in that case I may be wrong.....

Granted this doesn't address the other problems with DPoS and PoS security.... but perhaps a hybrid approach could be feasible in 20-40 years..... but this is assuming  that technology for PoW wont change as well.... so we are really just speculating and the most we can know is that right now PoS doesn't seem like a good suggestion.

No, mining PoS and being an active node is not the same thing. Bitcoin does not have PoS mining, and yet there's 7000 nodes.

For those mining PoS, they don't have to be a active node, it's their choice. Most will probably choose to be an active node, by running the client on their computer and keep it always on (because a lot of people, like me, keep their computer turned on all the time anyway), but it's up to them, they don't have to.

But I disagree with your conclusion, I think PoS NEEDS to happen right now, because hundreds of million dollar are transferred from Bitcoin eco-system, into the pockets of hardware vendor/electric companies. The longer this continues, the weaker the Bitcoin eco-system will become if no inflow of capital happens. Of course this problem is not obvious right now, due to large amount of capital flowing into the system, but when the inflow is overwhelmed by the outflow, things can get very ugly.

[inBitweTrust]

There's no such thing as free electricity, someone is paying for it.

Renewable energy currently probably cost more than traditional in most places, and can not be used economically, that's why governments provide large subsidies for these. Otherwise the whole world would have switched over already.

Correct, that is why I have mentioned "sunked costs" several times in regards to renewable energy sources. In context we are talking about the PoW network security if Bitcoin crashes or BTC appreciating in value doesn't match the block reward drop offs. With sunk costs into green renewable energy solutions, these miners will keep going regardless of these threats as some money is better than none and not running the equipment when you have already pre-paid for the energy is stupid.

[inBitweTrust]

No, mining PoS and being an active node is not the same thing. Bitcoin does not have PoS mining, and yet there's 7000 nodes.

For those mining PoS, they don't have to be a active node, it's their choice. Most will probably choose to be an active node, by running the client on their computer and keep it always on (because a lot of people, like me, keep their computer turned on all the time anyway), but it's up to them, they don't have to.

I understand the distinction between and active distribution of decentralized nodes and a potential distribution of decentralized nodes.
Yes, having a potential distribution of decentralized nodes is better than not having one. I am suggesting that Bitcoins 7k+ active nodes and all the inactive ones that occasionally come online is not enough and is vulnerable to an attack. The pool of active minters/miners/forgers creates a probability curve that can be attacked by people wanted to attack a target or the network as a whole.

[romerun]

I guess moore's law will take care of that

asic will be everywhere smartphone, heater, watch, shoes, glasses, everybody mine to secure the network of the new world reserved currency

[minerpumpkin]

Okay, let's assume you're right... What do you propose we do? Do you really think PoS or something alike will solve the problem? Aren't there theoretical as well as practical problems with those methods, (too)? The problem of it all really is, that we don't see if it really drives us into a corner for at least many years, if not decades! Will we see a change of the block reward? Phew...

The competition is already driving PoW miners to use free and renewable energy to power the ASIC's. This momentum will continue, with or without ASIC appliances and thus Bitcoin will remain secure with a very high hashrate baseline.

There's no such thing as free electricity, someone is paying for it.

Renewable energy currently probably cost more than traditional in most places, and can not be used economically, that's why governments provide large subsidies for these. Otherwise the whole world would have switched over already.

Well, there are places though, where renewable energy is abundant. Those places are usually where large rivers are, in areas with a lot of mountains and so on. The Pacific Northwest, Sweden, etc. comes to mind. The thing is: It's difficult to get the energy away from there, therefore the supply is much bigger than the demand. A mining operation in such a location is the way to go!

[SpongeBTCants]

So many good news lately, wonder when whales will stop keeping the price low to buy as much cheap BTC as possible from morons before the price sky rockets again.

[kokojie]

So many good news lately, wonder when whales will stop keeping the price low to buy as much cheap BTC as possible from morons before the price sky rockets again.

lol, no the whales are not keeping the price low, how would they do that if their purpose is to buy BTC? they would have to sell BTC to keep price low.

It's the insanely high mining cost, that is outpacing the inflow of capital. Each year around $300-500 million are transferred from the Bitcoin eco-system to the pockets of hardware vendor and electric company.

So if the annual inflow of capital is lower than this number, Bitcoin price WILL fall. It's pretty simple.

Currently I only see two catalyst that can possibly stop the trend of falling price, one is Bitcoin ETF, this is a game changer. The other is the next halving. These two will have huge positive effects on the price, and create big inflow of capital. I don't see any other catalyst that can help the price, all these "good news" and adoption won't do anything, they are already priced in.

[cookiemonsterwhat]

So many good news lately, wonder when whales will stop keeping the price low to buy as much cheap BTC as possible from morons before the price sky rockets again.

lol, no the whales are not keeping the price low, how would they do that if their purpose is to buy BTC? they would have to sell BTC to keep price low.

It's the insanely high mining cost, that is outpacing the inflow of capital. Each year around $300-500 million are transferred from the Bitcoin eco-system to the pockets of hardware vendor and electric company.

So if the annual inflow of capital is lower than this number, Bitcoin price WILL fall. It's pretty simple.

Currently I only see two catalyst that can possibly stop the trend of falling price, one is Bitcoin ETF, this is a game changer. The other is the next halving. These two will have huge positive effects on the price, and create big inflow of capital. I don't see any other catalyst that can help the price, all these "good news" and adoption won't do anything, they are already priced in.

If the twins pass the ETF - thats seriously going to change everything. Since most common investors rather invest through the stock market.

Thats a huge reach to all the non-savy old baby boomers as well.

[kokojie]

So many good news lately, wonder when whales will stop keeping the price low to buy as much cheap BTC as possible from morons before the price sky rockets again.

lol, no the whales are not keeping the price low, how would they do that if their purpose is to buy BTC? they would have to sell BTC to keep price low.

It's the insanely high mining cost, that is outpacing the inflow of capital. Each year around $300-500 million are transferred from the Bitcoin eco-system to the pockets of hardware vendor and electric company.

So if the annual inflow of capital is lower than this number, Bitcoin price WILL fall. It's pretty simple.

Currently I only see two catalyst that can possibly stop the trend of falling price, one is Bitcoin ETF, this is a game changer. The other is the next halving. These two will have huge positive effects on the price, and create big inflow of capital. I don't see any other catalyst that can help the price, all these "good news" and adoption won't do anything, they are already priced in.

If the twins pass the ETF - thats seriously going to change everything. Since most common investors rather invest through the stock market.

Thats a huge reach to all the non-savy old baby boomers as well.

Correct, ETF was a big game changer for gold and silver too, and these already had a rather mature market to begin with. Now imagine what it would do for Bitcoin, it's going to be huge.

[Bonam]

asic will be everywhere smartphone, heater, watch, shoes, glasses, everybody mine to secure the network of the new world reserved currency

An ASIC is an "application specific integrated circuit". For a bitcoin mining ASIC to be in your smartphone or watch, the company who builds it has to purposefully put it there. These are small devices with thousands of different functions and constant competition for new technology to be included in them. And, they have access to very little power and one of the main constraints is battery life. They will never be meaningfully used for mining.

As for heaters... sure. A bitcoin miner makes a great heater.

[FUR11]

asic will be everywhere smartphone, heater, watch, shoes, glasses, everybody mine to secure the network of the new world reserved currency

An ASIC is an "application specific integrated circuit". For a bitcoin mining ASIC to be in your smartphone or watch, the company who builds it has to purposefully put it there. These are small devices with thousands of different functions and constant competition for new technology to be included in them. And, they have access to very little power and one of the main constraints is battery life. They will never be meaningfully used for mining.

As for heaters... sure. A bitcoin miner makes a great heater.

Yeah, but that is what he is suggesting. He says that Bitcoin mining ASICs will be included in all electronics, in order to use them to mine Bitcoin. I don't really believe that, either, but hey It's at least an interesting idea!

[AltcoinInvestor]

Well, maybe small mining farms (1-100 Ths)  will be unprofitable but Always bigger investors will get paid...

[catena5260]

Look at what happened with Doge. It is one of the possible scenarios, but not the only one, ofc

[Bonam]

Anyway mining will always be profitable for someone (as long as bitcoin doesn't go to zero). Because whoever is doing it unprofitably will turn off their miners, boosting profits for everyone else. Eventually mining with leading edge technology in a low electricity cost area will stabilize somewhere at a comparable rate of return to other investments... i.e. 6-10%ish per year.

[chaosknight]

Anyway mining will always be profitable for someone (as long as bitcoin doesn't go to zero). Because whoever is doing it unprofitably will turn off their miners, boosting profits for everyone else. Eventually mining with leading edge technology in a low electricity cost area will stabilize somewhere at a comparable rate of return to other investments... i.e. 6-10%ish per year.

It is somehow true but there are more noobs in this world then you can imagine. A lot of people is mining at losses thinking they are securing the network..

[killat]

Mining can be very profitable, but its not that simple to execute. An example - I found a new coin at the very beginning (few days after the launch) - hired rigs (I had like 20% of the total hash rate in the network), mined the shit out of that for 2 days, sold all coins next day - quick 10x profit. But of course there is a risk - this coins come and go, you can mine and have useless coins that no one will ever buy. So to summarize - the big bucks are in new coins, and with proper selection you can make a shitload of money. The hardest part is to find the good ones..

[Thekool1s]

Mining can be very profitable, but its not that simple to execute. An example - I found a new coin at the very beginning (few days after the launch) - hired rigs (I had like 20% of the total hash rate in the network), mined the shit out of that for 2 days, sold all coins next day - quick 10x profit. But of course there is a risk - this coins come and go, you can mine and have useless coins that no one will ever buy. So to summarize - the big bucks are in new coins, and with proper selection you can make a shitload of money. The hardest part is to find the good ones..

Wow you are a special kind of shit poster aren't you? You responded to a two years old thread with a crappy answer that has nothing to do with the question I asked. Spam somewhere else kiddo.. BTW who is managing this campaign?.

[theomark]

Bitcoin Mining Profitability in 2018:

https://www.tokens24.com/cryptopedia/bitcoin-mining-profitability-2018/

[Athelstan Miller]

The fact is:Bitcoin mining has grown from a handful of early enthusiasts into a cottage industry, into a specialized industrial-level venture. The easy money was scooped out a long time ago and what remains is buried under the cryptographic equivalent of tons of hard rock.