[ANN] ATOMIC: in SuperNET CORE - single blockchain for trading all coins&assets

[perado]

What about the initial distribution?
10% for JH holders,10%for NXTventure holders,40% in James acc(belongs to James or?),40% in the ask 1 acc(the acc raise money for the project)?
What if the ask1 is sold out?Does it mean the first stage?

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[CryptAxe]

Hey James,I want to know how many stages are there(different prices?)?
And I know nothing about tech.Is it possible BTC guys will do something to prevent us from doing the cross chain thing(it is reasonable when I stick to Btc and reject any other coins)?

The way that I am implementing the exchanges will not involve the BTC Developers in any way. Atomic will make use of blockchain technology but a group such as the Bitcoin Foundation would not be able to make any changes to it or prevent BTC or any other coin from being exchanged via Atomic.

[jl777]

What about the initial distribution?
10% for JH holders,10%for NXTventure holders,40% in James acc(belongs to James or?),40% in the ask 1 acc(the acc raise money for the project)?
What if the ask1 is sold out?Does it mean the first stage?

I do not own the 40% of Atomic personally, it is owned by NXTventure, which in turn is owned by 100+ people. I do own about a quarter of NXTventure, so indirectly I own about 10% of Atomic

There are no "stages", this is not an ICO. It was a NXTventure dividend and the dividend receivers set the market price. Due to the demand we had decided to make 10000 available. From time to time it is possible for more to be made available, but there is no set schedule

James

[esuncloud]

I have been watching this atomic cross chain trading thing for a while, and it is interesting to see that you guys issue asset for this relatively old problem.
The reason that this ATOMIC was not implemented before is because it is difficult. The closest solution is as below:
https://github.com/TierNolan/bips/blob/bip4x/bip-atom.mediawiki

But this is obviously not enough for what you have planned. Considering you guys have gotten million dollars in valuation, maybe you could hire really smart guys with this money to solve it.

It will be helpful if you could give more details about this POE/POG, and convince us that it will really work as you expected. Meanwhile, ATOMIC assetholders will not get anything before it is finished and the price of ATOMIC will be totally speculating before that.

Take this as risk reminder of the challenges in ATOMIC development, and I would love to see ATOMIC could finally come true.

By the way, you could choose the MGW approach, but even though there is multi-sig, you still have to trust the gateway, which is not perfect DAC. Another possible idea is similar to DPOS, and users dynamically elect agents to handle the exchanges. If this is what you want to do, I am in.

[jl777]

I have been watching this atomic cross chain trading thing for a while, and it is interesting to see that you guys issue asset for this relatively old problem.
The reason that this ATOMIC was not implemented before is because it is difficult. However, considering you guys have gotten million dollars in valuation, maybe you could hire really smart guy with this money.

It will be helpful if you could give more details about this POE/POG, and convince us that it will really work as you expected. Meanwhile, ATOMIC assetholders will not get anything before it is finished and the price of ATOMIC will be totally speculating before that.

Take this a risk reminder of the challenges in ATOMIC development, and I would love to see ATOMIC could finally come true.

It is a difficult problem indeed and I have warned of the risks.

The POE and POG are the way to ensure that there are the most connections possible between all the various blockchains. if these do not exist, then making a cross chain tx is problematic. So think of this as the "bandwidth" for doing atomic tx. The bandwidth by itself is not enough.

Inside the MGW (multigateway) I am doing a primitive form of atomic exchanges, BTC for mgwBTC asset and vice versa. I have also done overlapped and synchronized micropayment channels using offchain exchanges of signed and validated transactions. not exactly atomic, but the performance profile is close.

So at the application level it is possible to achieve close to atomic exchanges, but there are always some issues regarding timing or some other things.

By having a "ticker tape" blockchain where all the atomic trades are recorded, this provides a single efficient place to verify the status of a tx pair involved in an atomic swap. Now if everybody were honest, then we would be done. Of course we need to prevent double spends, transaction malleability, etc.

So I am envisioning that at first an atomic tx will be having some chance of being invalidated, but as time passes then the confidence level grows, just as with any decentralized blockchain. There is a tradeoff between instant results and accurate results and the details as to what tradeoffs are chosen are not completed yet.

It is possible that the tradeoff decision is totally up to the client of Atomic. Since InstantDEX is a built in client of Atomic we will be working at the same issue top down and bottom up. It is likely I will release the InstantDEX without full Atomic support at first as it wont be ready yet, but there are several hard-coded ways to do the InstantDEX tx. The Atomic will just make my life a lot easier.

Stay tuned as we work out all these details and feel free to contribute with ideas, suggestions, criticisms, etc. We want an open process and invite all that want to help, to help!

James

[esuncloud]

I have been watching this atomic cross chain trading thing for a while, and it is interesting to see that you guys issue asset for this relatively old problem.
The reason that this ATOMIC was not implemented before is because it is difficult. However, considering you guys have gotten million dollars in valuation, maybe you could hire really smart guy with this money.

It will be helpful if you could give more details about this POE/POG, and convince us that it will really work as you expected. Meanwhile, ATOMIC assetholders will not get anything before it is finished and the price of ATOMIC will be totally speculating before that.

Take this a risk reminder of the challenges in ATOMIC development, and I would love to see ATOMIC could finally come true.

It is a difficult problem indeed and I have warned of the risks.

The POE and POG are the way to ensure that there are the most connections possible between all the various blockchains. if these do not exist, then making a cross chain tx is problematic. So think of this as the "bandwidth" for doing atomic tx. The bandwidth by itself is not enough.

Inside the MGW (multigateway) I am doing a primitive form of atomic exchanges, BTC for mgwBTC asset and vice versa. I have also done overlapped and synchronized micropayment channels using offchain exchanges of signed and validated transactions. not exactly atomic, but the performance profile is close.

So at the application level it is possible to achieve close to atomic exchanges, but there are always some issues regarding timing or some other things.

By having a "ticker tape" blockchain where all the atomic trades are recorded, this provides a single efficient place to verify the status of a tx pair involved in an atomic swap. Now if everybody were honest, then we would be done. Of course we need to prevent double spends, transaction malleability, etc.

So I am envisioning that at first an atomic tx will be having some chance of being invalidated, but as time passes then the confidence level grows, just as with any decentralized blockchain. There is a tradeoff between instant results and accurate results and the details as to what tradeoffs are chosen are not completed yet.

It is possible that the tradeoff decision is totally up to the client of Atomic. Since InstantDEX is a built in client of Atomic we will be working at the same issue top down and bottom up. It is likely I will release the InstantDEX without full Atomic support at first as it wont be ready yet, but there are several hard-coded ways to do the InstantDEX tx. The Atomic will just make my life a lot easier.

Stay tuned as we work out all these details and feel free to contribute with ideas, suggestions, criticisms, etc. We want an open process and invite all that want to help, to help!

James

Just added some details, and this is another reminder.

The closest solution for atomic cross-chain trading is as below:
https://github.com/TierNolan/bips/blob/bip4x/bip-atom.mediawiki

But this is obviously not enough, and another possible idea is to combine the idea of DPOS, and users dynamically elect agents to handle the exchanges.

[Jeff Jefferson]

so are there any more assets being sold for 60 NXT?

I have a buy order for 60 in AE.

[jl777]

I have been watching this atomic cross chain trading thing for a while, and it is interesting to see that you guys issue asset for this relatively old problem.
The reason that this ATOMIC was not implemented before is because it is difficult. However, considering you guys have gotten million dollars in valuation, maybe you could hire really smart guy with this money.

It will be helpful if you could give more details about this POE/POG, and convince us that it will really work as you expected. Meanwhile, ATOMIC assetholders will not get anything before it is finished and the price of ATOMIC will be totally speculating before that.

Take this a risk reminder of the challenges in ATOMIC development, and I would love to see ATOMIC could finally come true.

It is a difficult problem indeed and I have warned of the risks.

The POE and POG are the way to ensure that there are the most connections possible between all the various blockchains. if these do not exist, then making a cross chain tx is problematic. So think of this as the "bandwidth" for doing atomic tx. The bandwidth by itself is not enough.

Inside the MGW (multigateway) I am doing a primitive form of atomic exchanges, BTC for mgwBTC asset and vice versa. I have also done overlapped and synchronized micropayment channels using offchain exchanges of signed and validated transactions. not exactly atomic, but the performance profile is close.

So at the application level it is possible to achieve close to atomic exchanges, but there are always some issues regarding timing or some other things.

By having a "ticker tape" blockchain where all the atomic trades are recorded, this provides a single efficient place to verify the status of a tx pair involved in an atomic swap. Now if everybody were honest, then we would be done. Of course we need to prevent double spends, transaction malleability, etc.

So I am envisioning that at first an atomic tx will be having some chance of being invalidated, but as time passes then the confidence level grows, just as with any decentralized blockchain. There is a tradeoff between instant results and accurate results and the details as to what tradeoffs are chosen are not completed yet.

It is possible that the tradeoff decision is totally up to the client of Atomic. Since InstantDEX is a built in client of Atomic we will be working at the same issue top down and bottom up. It is likely I will release the InstantDEX without full Atomic support at first as it wont be ready yet, but there are several hard-coded ways to do the InstantDEX tx. The Atomic will just make my life a lot easier.

Stay tuned as we work out all these details and feel free to contribute with ideas, suggestions, criticisms, etc. We want an open process and invite all that want to help, to help!

James

Just added some details, and this is another reminder.

The closest solution for atomic cross-chain trading is as below:
https://github.com/TierNolan/bips/blob/bip4x/bip-atom.mediawiki

But this is obviously not enough, and another possible idea is to combine the idea of DPOS, and users dynamically elect agents to handle the exchanges.

MGW is more a proof of concept in this regard as the gateway function is similar but different from exchanging

with the miners available and adding some reputation system would allow for some semi-automatic method

clearly there is a tremendous need for a solution and now there is capital to fund the development, a ready mass market from SuperNET and so this is the explanation for the interest in Atomic

[provenceday]

will watch this.

crosschain technology is hard to implemented but promising.

[slavo]

decentralization through jl777 seems a bit contradictory with the principle of decentralization 

[CryptAxe]

I have been watching this atomic cross chain trading thing for a while, and it is interesting to see that you guys issue asset for this relatively old problem.
The reason that this ATOMIC was not implemented before is because it is difficult. The closest solution is as below:
https://github.com/TierNolan/bips/blob/bip4x/bip-atom.mediawiki

But this is obviously not enough for what you have planned. Considering you guys have gotten million dollars in valuation, maybe you could hire really smart guys with this money to solve it.

It will be helpful if you could give more details about this POE/POG, and convince us that it will really work as you expected. Meanwhile, ATOMIC assetholders will not get anything before it is finished and the price of ATOMIC will be totally speculating before that.

Take this as risk reminder of the challenges in ATOMIC development, and I would love to see ATOMIC could finally come true.

By the way, you could choose the MGW approach, but even though there is multi-sig, you still have to trust the gateway, which is not perfect DAC. Another possible idea is similar to DPOS, and users dynamically elect agents to handle the exchanges. If this is what you want to do, I am in.

Part of the reason that I have said I was holding off on this project until I saw the superNET is exactly what you said, implementing direct cross chain trading is difficult. In the early stages of ATOMIC, relying on a multisig gateway (which as you said, is not a perfect DAC) in order to begin functioning is an option (I prefer making use of InstantDEX's decentralized opt-in style approach over a centralized exchange though). Atomic is however acting as a tickertape for these exchanges and actually performing the exchanges would be secondary to keeping track of and verifying them (the final version will be able to make exchanges directly from the api which I plan to implement a web application, mobile application and desktop application for). Once you have the ability to verify cross chain exchanges (whether atomic or not) via a singular blockchain rather than having to check the transactions on source and destination coin's blockchains I believe that decentralized exchanges such as InstantDEX will be able to cooperate with the ATOMIC network. This means that once ATOMIC is up and running using InstantDEX as a backbone, confirming and ensuring that all exchanges happen as securely and quickly as possible it will be then that the concept will be proven and tested enough in order to reach 100% DAC status. What this means is that once myself and the developers that join the project have proven and tested ATOMIC, in a controllable environment (making use of InstantDEX) it will then be ready to move on to the next stage. When dealing with something this complex in software you always want to work iteratively and ATOMIC is no exception. So I don't want people to apply all of the worries of the previous attempts at cross chain utilization to ATOMIC as ATOMIC isn't attempting to solve the issue in the same way.

I'm working on setting up a website with some more information about POE and POG right now. As soon as I have it ready I will be posting on this thread so that you guys can dive into the fundamentals of the project and hopefully more intelligent questions such as yours will flood into my inbox!

[jl777]

Atomic will start trading on bter soon

James

[Issac]

i cant seem to find atomic on the AE any more

I said I wouldnt intervene in the market tradings, but I think there is simply not enough Atomic asset to go around, so I have convinced cryptaxe to put 10,000 assets on the market at 60 NXT, which is a level that is significantly below the current market price.

Hopefully this will provide enough assets to satisfy the market's hunger for Atomic. If the 10000 is not enough, put more bids at 60 NXT to indicate interest and maybe more can be made available.

For those that purchased Atomic over 60 NXT, PM CryptAxe with your tx details and he will send you additional Atomic assets so your average cost per Atomic will be 60 NXT.

James

it seems not enouth,Can we buy it with 60nxt?

[provenceday]

how about list this on coinmarketcap?

[jl777]

how about list this on coinmarketcap?

yes please!
I dont deal with things like that, but i think anybody can submit the request

[provenceday]

how about list this on coinmarketcap?

yes please!
I dont deal with things like that, but i think anybody can submit the request

here is the request form.

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1IZf5cBivam_93zENT_arFFuvWDidHGjWxoTMVmFSoWg/formResponse

it seems we need a logo and  a website.

how about dev team set a bounty for this?

thanks

[PilotofBTC]

how about list this on coinmarketcap?

yes please!
I dont deal with things like that, but i think anybody can submit the request

here is the request form.

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1IZf5cBivam_93zENT_arFFuvWDidHGjWxoTMVmFSoWg/formResponse

it seems we need a logo and  a website.

how about dev team set a bounty for this?

thanks

I filled out the form. Just pointed to this thread for the web site and didn't specify a logo. Those things can be modified if/when they add it.

[provenceday]

how to list this on coinmarketcap:


we need these things:

CoinMarketCap.com Request Form

1 What is the coin's official website?

do not have one?

2 Which exchanges is it traded on? List all that apply.

https://bter.com/trade/atomic_btc


3 Please provide a URL that shows the total number of coins in real time.
Required. For example, Darkcoin's total number of coins can be found at

https://nxtblocks.info/#section/assets_exchange/market/11694807213441909013

4 Please provide a URL of the coin's official logo

we need a logo.

5 Please provide any other information that would be useful.
e.g. announcement thread links

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=780833.120

[provenceday]

how about list this on coinmarketcap?

yes please!
I dont deal with things like that, but i think anybody can submit the request

here is the request form.

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1IZf5cBivam_93zENT_arFFuvWDidHGjWxoTMVmFSoWg/formResponse

it seems we need a logo and  a website.

how about dev team set a bounty for this?

thanks

I filled out the form. Just pointed to this thread for the web site and didn't specify a logo. Those things can be modified if/when they add it.

thanks, it seems we need a logo and a simple website for this.

hope they can add a bounty for this.

also if we want some promotions, we need some articles to introduce this asset.
only few people know this asset. also some of them may do not know how buy or sell asset on nxt blockchain.

[PilotofBTC]

how about list this on coinmarketcap?

yes please!
I dont deal with things like that, but i think anybody can submit the request

here is the request form.

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1IZf5cBivam_93zENT_arFFuvWDidHGjWxoTMVmFSoWg/formResponse

it seems we need a logo and  a website.

how about dev team set a bounty for this?

thanks

I filled out the form. Just pointed to this thread for the web site and didn't specify a logo. Those things can be modified if/when they add it.

thanks, it seems we need a logo and a simple website for this.

I don't think so, several AE assets are listed and not all of them have a web site or a logo. But, still, having those things would be nice if someone wants to spend them time to make/host them.