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Author Topic: bitcoincard.org the killer app we have been waiting for?  (Read 5044 times)
Spekulatius
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April 26, 2012, 11:51:26 PM
 #41

wow this thing looks so cool, and it works with bitcoins? JOY!  Cheesy

http://www.bitcoincard.org

what do you guys think, is this the killer app that will bring about the bitcoin revolution?

Yeah,.. I dont really like it. I dont like to data mining possible which is mentioned in the video, I dont understand how it can be superior to all the functionalities a smart phone offers, only a couple of mms thicker and I think its no use if you are outside of city boundaries, it doesnt even work between towns or suburbs, only in the city center.

If it would cost only 50$ or less, it could be an alternative to a smart phone, although I doubt it. It doesnt come with voice transmission and longlevity of batteries is doubtful, especially during cloudy days.

I short, nice try but I dont think so.
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April 26, 2012, 11:56:38 PM
 #42

Guys, you're asking all the wrong questions.

Who cares if Charlie said it's real. Who cares if it is real.

The questions you should be asking are:

  • If it's real, why isn't anyone talking about the functionality?
  • Why isn't Charlie beaming about the bitcoin sending functionality?
  • Why isn't anyone bothering to talk about how ridiculous the ISM band is?
  • Why does anyone believe that it will have enough energy to not need a charge?
  • Why does anyone believe that it would have enough energy to use that radioband constantly and not need a charge?
  • At what point does it connect to the blockchain and actually update?
  • Does anyone actually believe that just because it doesn't allow software and uses an ad-hoc network, that requiring an additional custom node to connect it to the internet makes any sense at all?
  • At what point does it connect to the blockchain and actually update?
  • At what point does it connect to the blockchain and actually update?
  • And most importantly, at what point does it connect to the blockchain and actually update?

3 people with this and no one with the internet != Bitcoin.


As the inventor of a similar yet less overly-hyped device, I say it doesn't have a chance in a real world but it's an AWESOME technology just the same and I applaud the show, but I don't see it becoming anything more than that honestly.

MoonShadow
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April 27, 2012, 12:00:40 AM
 #43

Guys, you're asking all the wrong questions.

Who cares if Charlie said it's real. Who cares if it is real.

The questions you should be asking are:

  • If it's real, why isn't anyone talking about the functionality?
  • Why isn't Charlie beaming about the bitcoin sending functionality?
  • Why isn't anyone bothering to talk about how ridiculous the ISM band is?
  • Why does anyone believe that it will have enough energy to not need a charge?
  • Why does anyone believe that it would have enough energy to use that radioband constantly and not need a charge?
  • At what point does it connect to the blockchain and actually update?
  • Does anyone actually believe that just because it doesn't allow software and uses an ad-hoc network, that requiring an additional custom node to connect it to the internet makes any sense at all?
  • At what point does it connect to the blockchain and actually update?
  • At what point does it connect to the blockchain and actually update?
  • And most importantly, at what point does it connect to the blockchain and actually update?

3 people with this and no one with the internet != Bitcoin.


As the inventor of a similar yet less overly-hyped device, I say it doesn't have a chance in a real world but it's an AWESOME technology just the same.

It doesn't hold a blockchain, so it doesn't actually have to update in that manner.  Yes, it would require some kind of supporting infrastructure, such as a specialized internet router that acts as a Stratum server.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
teflone
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April 27, 2012, 12:20:42 AM
 #44

Guys, you're asking all the wrong questions.

Who cares if Charlie said it's real. Who cares if it is real.

The questions you should be asking are:

  • If it's real, why isn't anyone talking about the functionality?
  • Why isn't Charlie beaming about the bitcoin sending functionality?
  • Why isn't anyone bothering to talk about how ridiculous the ISM band is?
  • Why does anyone believe that it will have enough energy to not need a charge?
  • Why does anyone believe that it would have enough energy to use that radioband constantly and not need a charge?
  • At what point does it connect to the blockchain and actually update?
  • Does anyone actually believe that just because it doesn't allow software and uses an ad-hoc network, that requiring an additional custom node to connect it to the internet makes any sense at all?
  • At what point does it connect to the blockchain and actually update?
  • At what point does it connect to the blockchain and actually update?
  • And most importantly, at what point does it connect to the blockchain and actually update?

3 people with this and no one with the internet != Bitcoin.


As the inventor of a similar yet less overly-hyped device, I say it doesn't have a chance in a real world but it's an AWESOME technology just the same and I applaud the show, but I don't see it becoming anything more than that honestly.

Which ISM band has a lot to do with how much juice it needs..  I would assume 2.4, but the lower the better..

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MoonShadow
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April 27, 2012, 12:32:53 AM
 #45

Guys, you're asking all the wrong questions.

Who cares if Charlie said it's real. Who cares if it is real.

The questions you should be asking are:

  • If it's real, why isn't anyone talking about the functionality?
  • Why isn't Charlie beaming about the bitcoin sending functionality?
  • Why isn't anyone bothering to talk about how ridiculous the ISM band is?
  • Why does anyone believe that it will have enough energy to not need a charge?
  • Why does anyone believe that it would have enough energy to use that radioband constantly and not need a charge?
  • At what point does it connect to the blockchain and actually update?
  • Does anyone actually believe that just because it doesn't allow software and uses an ad-hoc network, that requiring an additional custom node to connect it to the internet makes any sense at all?
  • At what point does it connect to the blockchain and actually update?
  • At what point does it connect to the blockchain and actually update?
  • And most importantly, at what point does it connect to the blockchain and actually update?

3 people with this and no one with the internet != Bitcoin.


As the inventor of a similar yet less overly-hyped device, I say it doesn't have a chance in a real world but it's an AWESOME technology just the same and I applaud the show, but I don't see it becoming anything more than that honestly.

Which ISM band has a lot to do with how much juice it needs..  I would assume 2.4, but the lower the better..

If it's a dash7 device, it uses 433 mhz.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
teflone
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April 27, 2012, 12:39:10 AM
 #46

Guys, you're asking all the wrong questions.

Who cares if Charlie said it's real. Who cares if it is real.

The questions you should be asking are:

3 people with this and no one with the internet != Bitcoin.


As the inventor of a similar yet less overly-hyped device, I say it doesn't have a chance in a real world but it's an AWESOME technology just the same and I applaud the show, but I don't see it becoming anything more than that honestly.

Which ISM band has a lot to do with how much juice it needs..  I would assume 2.4, but the lower the better..

If it's a dash7 device, it uses 433 mhz.

Oh, thanks.. was curious, that could easily be feasible then, 433 travels well..  lower than I expected, but hoped for..

For Canadians by Canadians: Canada's Bitcoin Community - https://www.coinforum.ca/
darkice
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April 27, 2012, 12:49:52 AM
 #47

wow this thing looks so cool, and it works with bitcoins? JOY!  Cheesy

http://www.bitcoincard.org

what do you guys think, is this the killer app that will bring about the bitcoin revolution?

Yeah,.. I dont really like it. I dont like to data mining possible which is mentioned in the video, I dont understand how it can be superior to all the functionalities a smart phone offers, only a couple of mms thicker and I think its no use if you are outside of city boundaries, it doesnt even work between towns or suburbs, only in the city center.

If it would cost only 50$ or less, it could be an alternative to a smart phone, although I doubt it. It doesnt come with voice transmission and longlevity of batteries is doubtful, especially during cloudy days.

I short, nice try but I dont think so.

data mining can be prevented by putting the device in an enclosure made of thinfoil Smiley or not carrying it with you while shopping may help Smiley
Spekulatius
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April 27, 2012, 02:09:18 AM
 #48

wow this thing looks so cool, and it works with bitcoins? JOY!  Cheesy

http://www.bitcoincard.org

what do you guys think, is this the killer app that will bring about the bitcoin revolution?

Yeah,.. I dont really like it. I dont like to data mining possible which is mentioned in the video, I dont understand how it can be superior to all the functionalities a smart phone offers, only a couple of mms thicker and I think its no use if you are outside of city boundaries, it doesnt even work between towns or suburbs, only in the city center.

If it would cost only 50$ or less, it could be an alternative to a smart phone, although I doubt it. It doesnt come with voice transmission and longlevity of batteries is doubtful, especially during cloudy days.

I short, nice try but I dont think so.

data mining can be prevented by putting the device in an enclosure made of thinfoil Smiley or not carrying it with you while shopping may help Smiley

Ah yeah, thats why I pay for stuff in Bitcoin with it. . . !? NO.
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April 27, 2012, 05:44:07 AM
 #49

I don't see the point, there could never be enough to link them together. Even if everyone on earth had one. It would need to connect to something besides peers, like smart phones do. We already have those.. If they were all in range of each other, how could they communicate with the block chain? Even if it worked as promised. I would be impressed if one person in every 500 miles bought one. Let alone 300 meters.
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April 27, 2012, 06:05:27 AM
 #50

I'm interested. Where do I hand my coins over?

My BTC Tip Jar: 1Pgvfy19uwtYe5o9dg3zZsAjgCPt3XZqz9 , GPG ID: B3AAEEB0 ,OTC ID: johnthedong
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April 27, 2012, 06:20:34 AM
 #51

I don't see the point, there could never be enough to link them together. Even if everyone on earth had one. It would need to connect to something besides peers, like smart phones do. We already have those.. If they were all in range of each other, how could they communicate with the block chain? Even if it worked as promised. I would be impressed if one person in every 500 miles bought one. Let alone 300 meters.

"trusted" gateway nodes allow it to connect to the blockchain

granted the idea is whimsical, but its has a COOL factor.

MoonShadow
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April 27, 2012, 06:32:12 AM
 #52

I don't see the point, there could never be enough to link them together. Even if everyone on earth had one. It would need to connect to something besides peers, like smart phones do. We already have those.. If they were all in range of each other, how could they communicate with the block chain? Even if it worked as promised. I would be impressed if one person in every 500 miles bought one. Let alone 300 meters.

I'd buy one today.

And yes, they could work well, in theory.  And yes, they would need routers in addition to peers, but those would be provided by retailers.  The mesh mechanism is to extend the functional range of such a device, but is inmaterial for a bitcoin device.  A disconnected bitcoin wallet isn't disconnected when you're home, only while you're out using it.  So it can update it's blockchain (assuming it needs it, but it shouldn't) while you are at home or otherwise within wifi range of an open hotspot.  The devices need to be able to broadcast transactions, & hear other transactions, to protect the owner from a possible form of theft by deception.  Namely, if the device didn't broadcast transactions until it could connect to a wifi hotspot, a criminal could pretend to buy the car you were selling on Craigslist, pay you with bitcoin using both your wallet devices, and after you drive away the thug you paid to mug him would destroy his wallet device.  Thus giving the fraudster the chance to overwrite the transaction that he paid with on his own device and keep the funds.  If all bitcoin devices broadcast all transactions immediately, the fraudster in this scenario can't know if the transaction was heard by another wallet device, another person's cell phone, a router connected to the internet or nothing at all.  This lack of certainty removes the potential gain from such a criminal strategy.  It's not really speed of transaction propagation that is critical, but the potential of same.  If bitcoin is ever as popular as Paypal, we can expect that retailers that start accepting bitcoin are going to also invest in a receiver for broadcasted bitcoin transactions, since it's in their own interests to make certain that transactions make it to the Internet as quickly as possible to prevent double spends attacks against themselves.  Although it would be possible to exclude transactions that don't concern the retailer, the additional overhead involved in making such a discriminating router would most often exceed the marginal additional cost of simply forwarding every bitcoin transaction that it hears.  A store the size of WalMart could get away with only one such receiver per store.  A mall might need two or three for all the stores, depending upon it's size and layout.  A bunch of small stores down main street could get together to sponsor one for the whole block, although the costs of such a receiver if you already have Internet access at the store (who doesn't in America anymore?).

Theories aside, there wouldn't need to be a critical mass for such a device to be useful, and in places with retail density, the mesh traffic might actually be counterproductive.  It's when you're far from a retail outlet doing business that such distribution of the transactions are necessary.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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April 27, 2012, 06:44:16 AM
 #53

I don't see the point, there could never be enough to link them together. Even if everyone on earth had one. It would need to connect to something besides peers, like smart phones do. We already have those.. If they were all in range of each other, how could they communicate with the block chain? Even if it worked as promised. I would be impressed if one person in every 500 miles bought one. Let alone 300 meters.

"trusted" gateway nodes allow it to connect to the blockchain

granted the idea is whimsical, but its has a COOL factor.

They don't need to be trusted.  I can do exactly the same thing right now using my openwrt wifi router, simply by blocking non-bitcoin port numbers and letting bitcoin port numbers pass unhindered; or by capture and redirection of all client-side traffic to my local bitcoind.  The whole point of bitcoin's structure is that there don't need to be trusted gateways.  There is little to no malicious activities that any particular gateway node could do to any user.  Can't steal their coins.  Can't expect to double-spend against such a device, since it's as likely as not to be somewhere else when coins are sent to it anyway.  (it's a consumer wallet, not a point-of-sale device.)  Can't see how a sybil attack is likely against such a device, for similar reasons.  Having a full blockchain makes such things impossible, but even just having the block headers, merkle trees & copies of input transactions relevant to the addresses that the wallet has private keys for makes pretty much anything unlikely, or at least "costly" enough of a crime to not make the funds that could be found in a random wallet device worthwhile.

The only malicious activity that I can think of that might be possible, is to feed the wallet device false input transaction data, but even if the client accepts them as true, no one else would so the device simply wouldn't be able to spend those coins that it never really had; which might irritate the owner, but he still couldn't lose anything as a result.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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April 27, 2012, 06:54:09 AM
 #54

Infrastructure looks to be the critical point. (Cost, security...)

Anyhow, interesting tech. Let's see!
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April 27, 2012, 07:01:19 AM
 #55

I suspect the business model behind these is not to sell them to end users, but rather use them as loyalty cards, access cards etc with added functionality. Consumers would have to get them for free, or this is a non starter.

TBH, I think its a non starter anyway. As others pointed out, there are smartphones who can do all that + so much more so much better.  Though maybe for developing countries? Not sure how much demand there would be for the datamining in those countries tho, which is what I suppose will pay for the card.

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April 27, 2012, 07:08:57 AM
 #56

If it can provide free "im" and definitely if it can provide free "sms" plus a btc wallet I can see lots of bitcoiners paying for one.

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April 27, 2012, 07:13:32 AM
 #57

Even if every bitcoin user in the world bought one, chances of being able to connect to the adhoc network would still be.. ~zero.

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April 27, 2012, 07:15:27 AM
 #58

Yeah but it would create a user base to fuel wider adoption of both the device plus btc too.

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April 27, 2012, 07:19:14 AM
 #59

Even if every bitcoin user in the world bought one, chances of being able to connect to the adhoc network would still be.. ~zero.

Thank you for your unsupported layman's opinion.  As for those of us who actually know a thing or two about radio telemetry & propagation, we've been providing actual facts on this kind of device for longer than most of you in this thread have even known what a bitcoin was.

EDIT: I've literally bounced a 2 watt signal off the F level of the ionosphere and was heard over 200 miles away from my position; and actual line-of-sight distance of at least 350 miles up and down.  Granted, that was with some high quality gear that wouldn't fit in my wallet to save my life; but for someone who's only experiences with low-power digital telemetry involves the wifi scanner app on his smartphone to tell me it-just can't-be-done is offensive.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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April 27, 2012, 07:19:22 AM
 #60

I can also see the company being bought out by PayPal or Google dropping the btc wallet and using theirs.  With the new company providing them free or subsidised.

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