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Author Topic: [ANN][SLR] SolarCoin | PoW to PoS v. 2.0 | Solar Proof of Generation (§1 = 1MWh)  (Read 432280 times)
vipgelsi
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October 19, 2014, 12:38:33 PM
 #481

One thing i like about solarcoins are they are stored on cold storage in safe hands i get nervous when we talk about other people controlling them. Undecided

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mazzaneo
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October 19, 2014, 03:32:21 PM
 #482

Solarcoin needs progress. The Foundation needs to incorporate and move on things. The coins development efforts can happen in parallel. Solidify the plan, plot the next steps, and take action!

I encourage you to get in touch with the founders, Nick Gogerty and Joe Zitoli, and express your views about the need for progress on organizational development and planning. They are the ones who read the comments posted in this contact form: http://solarcoin.org/volunteer/

I've been pushing for incorporation for months now. Maybe more people need to add their voices and push for it. In the same way that community input was key in the decision to switch to Proof of Stake, community input could persuade Nick and Joe of the need to move forward with creating an official legal existence and structure for the Foundation and a well-written business plan document outlining the next steps for SolarCoin to grow and succeed.

Thanks for supporting SolarCoin and for raising issues you believe are important for its success.
Hi Freebird,
What do you feel is the reason that incorporation is so important for the immediate future. Is it that it gives credibility to the whole project or is it something else?

Thanks

1. It's a lot easier to raise money for an incorporated business or nonprofit than for an unincorporated project, and I believe any successful startup requires funding.

2. Incorporation would make it possible to legally transfer ownership of the generator pool reserve to an organization, which would follow written policies to ensure security of those coins and would free the founders from any potential legal liability as individuals if something were to go wrong.

3. I think the community should have more input into decision making. This could be formalized through written bylaws for an incorporated organization. We could have membership and members could cast votes on important issues through the SLR blockchain.

A big part of my professional background is in early-stage nonprofits -- helping to establish and manage them. So my bias is that the SolarCoin Foundation should become an incorporated 501(c)(3) tax-exempt nonprofit and promote itself as a type of environmental charity. Other people's opinions may be different. Another viable alternative would be to incorporate SolarCoin as a business and pursue venture capital investment.
It's a bit of a catch 22 really isn't it. I pretty much agree with all your points regarding incorporation but the flip side of that is that you lose a majority of the decentralization and become succeptable to rules and regulations. What if the government decided solarcoin was a pain in the ass and decided to find a bullshit reason to seize the remaining solarcoin in cold storage. The directors would need to comply or face prison charges. With banking interests threatened it could happen don't you thing. I guess the bottom line is... With a corporation running things then there is people who are accountable to government and banking interests.
However!... If the pre generated solarcoin are out of the control of any people or person and function independently through Ethereum or another platform with grants offered automatically through certain technologies applied directly to the panels themselves (as has been discussed before) then there is no one to hold accountable.
The fact they are stored in 'hands' is bad enough. Theft or simple human error could end the whole thing in an instant. the sooner we can get the pre generated coins automated and secure the better I think.

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LuckyKey
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October 19, 2014, 04:07:37 PM
 #483

Solarcoin needs progress. The Foundation needs to incorporate and move on things. The coins development efforts can happen in parallel. Solidify the plan, plot the next steps, and take action!

I encourage you to get in touch with the founders, Nick Gogerty and Joe Zitoli, and express your views about the need for progress on organizational development and planning. They are the ones who read the comments posted in this contact form: http://solarcoin.org/volunteer/

I've been pushing for incorporation for months now. Maybe more people need to add their voices and push for it. In the same way that community input was key in the decision to switch to Proof of Stake, community input could persuade Nick and Joe of the need to move forward with creating an official legal existence and structure for the Foundation and a well-written business plan document outlining the next steps for SolarCoin to grow and succeed.

Thanks for supporting SolarCoin and for raising issues you believe are important for its success.
Hi Freebird,
What do you feel is the reason that incorporation is so important for the immediate future. Is it that it gives credibility to the whole project or is it something else?

Thanks

1. It's a lot easier to raise money for an incorporated business or nonprofit than for an unincorporated project, and I believe any successful startup requires funding.

2. Incorporation would make it possible to legally transfer ownership of the generator pool reserve to an organization, which would follow written policies to ensure security of those coins and would free the founders from any potential legal liability as individuals if something were to go wrong.

3. I think the community should have more input into decision making. This could be formalized through written bylaws for an incorporated organization. We could have membership and members could cast votes on important issues through the SLR blockchain.

A big part of my professional background is in early-stage nonprofits -- helping to establish and manage them. So my bias is that the SolarCoin Foundation should become an incorporated 501(c)(3) tax-exempt nonprofit and promote itself as a type of environmental charity. Other people's opinions may be different. Another viable alternative would be to incorporate SolarCoin as a business and pursue venture capital investment.
It's a bit of a catch 22 really isn't it. I pretty much agree with all your points regarding incorporation but the flip side of that is that you lose a majority of the decentralization and become succeptable to rules and regulations. What if the government decided solarcoin was a pain in the ass and decided to find a bullshit reason to seize the remaining solarcoin in cold storage. The directors would need to comply or face prison charges. With banking interests threatened it could happen don't you thing. I guess the bottom line is... With a corporation running things then there is people who are accountable to government and banking interests.
However!... If the pre generated solarcoin are out of the control of any people or person and function independently through Ethereum or another platform with grants offered automatically through certain technologies applied directly to the panels themselves (as has been discussed before) then there is no one to hold accountable.
The fact they are stored in 'hands' is bad enough. Theft or simple human error could end the whole thing in an instant. the sooner we can get the pre generated coins automated and secure the better I think.

Agree +10

Incorporation as non-profit is required to access much of the govt. grants/funding. It will also benefit the public perception and acceptance, which will eventually be the goal, as the coin looks to win over the public and widespread use.  Wink
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October 19, 2014, 04:25:41 PM
 #484

Solarcoin needs progress. The Foundation needs to incorporate and move on things. The coins development efforts can happen in parallel. Solidify the plan, plot the next steps, and take action!

I encourage you to get in touch with the founders, Nick Gogerty and Joe Zitoli, and express your views about the need for progress on organizational development and planning. They are the ones who read the comments posted in this contact form: http://solarcoin.org/volunteer/

I've been pushing for incorporation for months now. Maybe more people need to add their voices and push for it. In the same way that community input was key in the decision to switch to Proof of Stake, community input could persuade Nick and Joe of the need to move forward with creating an official legal existence and structure for the Foundation and a well-written business plan document outlining the next steps for SolarCoin to grow and succeed.

Thanks for supporting SolarCoin and for raising issues you believe are important for its success.
Hi Freebird,
What do you feel is the reason that incorporation is so important for the immediate future. Is it that it gives credibility to the whole project or is it something else?

Thanks

1. It's a lot easier to raise money for an incorporated business or nonprofit than for an unincorporated project, and I believe any successful startup requires funding.

2. Incorporation would make it possible to legally transfer ownership of the generator pool reserve to an organization, which would follow written policies to ensure security of those coins and would free the founders from any potential legal liability as individuals if something were to go wrong.

3. I think the community should have more input into decision making. This could be formalized through written bylaws for an incorporated organization. We could have membership and members could cast votes on important issues through the SLR blockchain.

A big part of my professional background is in early-stage nonprofits -- helping to establish and manage them. So my bias is that the SolarCoin Foundation should become an incorporated 501(c)(3) tax-exempt nonprofit and promote itself as a type of environmental charity. Other people's opinions may be different. Another viable alternative would be to incorporate SolarCoin as a business and pursue venture capital investment.
It's a bit of a catch 22 really isn't it. I pretty much agree with all your points regarding incorporation but the flip side of that is that you lose a majority of the decentralization and become succeptable to rules and regulations. What if the government decided solarcoin was a pain in the ass and decided to find a bullshit reason to seize the remaining solarcoin in cold storage. The directors would need to comply or face prison charges. With banking interests threatened it could happen don't you thing. I guess the bottom line is... With a corporation running things then there is people who are accountable to government and banking interests.
However!... If the pre generated solarcoin are out of the control of any people or person and function independently through Ethereum or another platform with grants offered automatically through certain technologies applied directly to the panels themselves (as has been discussed before) then there is no one to hold accountable.
The fact they are stored in 'hands' is bad enough. Theft or simple human error could end the whole thing in an instant. the sooner we can get the pre generated coins automated and secure the better I think.

I agree wholeheartedly. I prefer the path of decentralized contracting over some centralized organization being in control, whether it's for-profit or not-for-profit is irrelevant to me, it's still centralized. How to proceed is an important question and it seems there is still some disagreement on that. Eric has his philosophical point of view which is different from mine (and that's ok Wink) and Nick and Joe are still theorizing about it apparently. So that's one problem that needs to be solved first before deciding on an action plan to solve the second big problem, automating the generator grants in an open and decentralized manner. It's a catch-22. If one is comfortable letting the process take place naturally rather than forcing it without careful consideration, then it takes time and patience. Greed has no place in such an environment, yet it continues to rear its ugly head causing anger and frustration.

I try to take a step back every now and then to realign myself with why I am even here promoting this fabulous idea. And my motivation has nothing to do with getting rich, I'm here because I think this is just one part of the solution to the bigger problem of climate change and the future of humanity in general. I want to see a currency like this be the standard for a better world in the future, it makes the most economic sense in my view given the parity to 1 MWh of energy. Would I like to see this future value reflected in price now? Um, yeah, I'm not a complete tard! Cheesy But getting hung up on price because you want to make a quick buck is absolutely the wrong reason to be here. Anyone who has those kinds of expectations is likely going to be disappointed, it's the nature of things. At the same time, I recognize that it's incredibly difficult for most people to keep their expectations in check. I have to work on it everyday...  Smiley

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mazzaneo
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October 19, 2014, 05:31:19 PM
 #485

I actually ran a solarcoin campaign on Facebook a few days ago, posted a link to a few articles and explained solarcoin. Told them to get an address and I would send them 5 SLC , I had no takers!
It's gonna be a long fought out slug to get people embracing crypto's.

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nickgogerty
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October 19, 2014, 05:36:44 PM
 #486

Hello,

apologies for my absence on this forum for far too long. I would like to invite people to think about ways of securing the generator pool using the proof of stake methodology.  An idea would be to algorithmically "lock-up" the generator pool accounts and then allow a group to petition for a release of coins to meet expected claims.  The wallet software would allow for a claim to be filed.  originally this could be by the "foundation". Over time there may be many foundations granting solarcoins based on country, technology etc..  The community would judge each petition on its merits and the effectiveness of each foundation on meeting its goals.  (yes this opens up a huge mess in terms of branding, claimants etc.  so lots of  thought needs to go into it.)  A wallet grant petition would be filed along with a message etc. link to source explaining the who/why etc.  the petition might last for say a finite time 30 days.  if it never reached enough support it would expire.  lots of tech and "gaming" issues to address.

The POS mechanism might be a voting mechanism for letting the community decide if the amount and recipient account allowed to circulate is deemed legit, i.e. it grows the community and fulfills the mission.  

Lots of mechanics need to be put in place for this to work safely.  brake on maximal release amounts etc. and of course the community of holders might not want to see "inflation" to new grants.  so an explanation of the benefits of growing the community need to be put in place.

I am interested in thoughts on this.  We won't be able to digest ideas until the latest POS is in place in the next 2-3 week (fingers crossed), but I think it would be an awesome way to hand control of the pool over the community and allow the community to determine what makes for good and effective solar energy granting.

thoughts on this?  It is decentralized central banking (sans an overnight or repo rate) only one lever, issuance.  The community picks the inflation rate and the solarcoin projects.  please start a google doc or other thread about so that people can engage on it post POS.  It is a high priority to get the generator pool safely in the hands of the community. I think a fully distributed central bank for solar energy is a fascinating technical problem and social opportunity.

Nick

Solarcoin (§ SLR) are like airmiles. Each 1 Mhw generated gets you §1 free. Solarcoins can purchase what others will trade: USD,BTC, Soy candles..etc.
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October 20, 2014, 01:27:35 AM
 #487

Hello,

apologies for my absence on this forum for far too long. I would like to invite people to think about ways of securing the generator pool using the proof of stake methodology.  An idea would be to algorithmically "lock-up" the generator pool accounts and then allow a group to petition for a release of coins to meet expected claims.  The wallet software would allow for a claim to be filed.  originally this could be by the "foundation". Over time there may be many foundations granting solarcoins based on country, technology etc..  The community would judge each petition on its merits and the effectiveness of each foundation on meeting its goals.  (yes this opens up a huge mess in terms of branding, claimants etc.  so lots of  thought needs to go into it.)  A wallet grant petition would be filed along with a message etc. link to source explaining the who/why etc.  the petition might last for say a finite time 30 days.  if it never reached enough support it would expire.  lots of tech and "gaming" issues to address.

The POS mechanism might be a voting mechanism for letting the community decide if the amount and recipient account allowed to circulate is deemed legit, i.e. it grows the community and fulfills the mission.  

Lots of mechanics need to be put in place for this to work safely.  brake on maximal release amounts etc. and of course the community of holders might not want to see "inflation" to new grants.  so an explanation of the benefits of growing the community need to be put in place.

I am interested in thoughts on this.  We won't be able to digest ideas until the latest POS is in place in the next 2-3 week (fingers crossed), but I think it would be an awesome way to hand control of the pool over the community and allow the community to determine what makes for good and effective solar energy granting.

thoughts on this?  It is decentralized central banking (sans an overnight or repo rate) only one lever, issuance.  The community picks the inflation rate and the solarcoin projects.  please start a google doc or other thread about so that people can engage on it post POS.  It is a high priority to get the generator pool safely in the hands of the community. I think a fully distributed central bank for solar energy is a fascinating technical problem and social opportunity.

Nick

Thanks for stepping back into the forum Nick.  It's nice to hear from you  Smiley

I'm not sure what the best way (long term) may be to secure the generation pool and/or automate claims, as there are some hurdles. It might be worthwhile to put a more manual process in place initially, with fewer claims (in initial years), and see where some of the emerging technology is in another year or two? There are plenty of venture capital $ coming into the blockchain technology space, so the landscape could be very different in another year or two?

I think to be successful, the coin needs growth outside of the technology/blockchain space. I believe not for profit declaration via incorporation can open doors to funding/grants, and that's a good start towards awareness and promotion.

IMHO, time should not be wasted dwelling on the perfect approach now, as things can be altered along the way, as long as the mission focus is the same. The ability to change is something that allows the concept to grow; much like the way that the solarcoin blockchain technology is being altered.

If you look at the recent rise in cannabis related cryptocurrencies (rising 10-fold in the last 4 or 5 days), due to a direct connection to coin usage and something tangible, it makes sense that solarcoin could benefit the same way. With the ability to work with governments and private industry, post incorporation, there may be partnering/subsidies that could directly relate value to solarcoins.  For example; can you see things such as;

1 solarcoin = $1 hydro credit  (govt reward for generation) - could be floating value, based on price of slr or ?
1 solarcoin = $10 from PV manufacturers (private company subsidy) - could be flat rate, or variable?  Could be n # of solarcoins = 20% off?
*  partner with green business accepting solarcoins for $ or % discounts from a # of solarcoins?
? - I'm not that creative, but there has to be plenty of options

As well, I would try and get involved in/with the universities, by offering competitions for solarcoin advancement solutions…rewards could be paid in slr, or govt./private funding/grant $.

I think the problem is that many of us believed things would be progressing quickly, but it seems like things have been stagnant, without a board meeting since early July, and with the pending PoS being what appears to be the only focus :-(

I'm still extremely huge on the idea - I just would like to see some more planning in the areas of outreach, promotion, private funding and govt. grants, outside of the focus on blockchain technology.

Go SolarCoin Go!


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October 21, 2014, 03:44:40 AM
 #488

Thanks for the insight Nick.

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October 21, 2014, 02:03:44 PM
 #489

You know…just thinking some   Smiley

If we wanted the value of slr to go up, there is a potential quick-win. If we could leverage the efforts of our friends at cannacoin, i.e. to accept solarcoin as well (somehow?), we might get a nice price bump Wink
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October 21, 2014, 02:32:44 PM
 #490

You know…just thinking some   Smiley

If we wanted the value of slr to go up, there is a potential quick-win. If we could leverage the efforts of our friends at cannacoin, i.e. to accept solarcoin as well (somehow?), we might get a nice price bump Wink
A nice idea but I fear the two philosophies are incongruent. having said that... a solarcoin store in general wouldn't be a bad idea. My wife has a very successful organic candle manufacturing business and I know she will support the Solarcoin as payment. If we find other 'Green' sellers perhaps we could make a §Bay store.
If i'm not mistaken there are already open source solutions like 'Dark Market' that we can modify, not that i'd have a clue about that mind you.

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mazzaneo
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October 21, 2014, 02:42:39 PM
 #491

You know…just thinking some   Smiley

If we wanted the value of slr to go up, there is a potential quick-win. If we could leverage the efforts of our friends at cannacoin, i.e. to accept solarcoin as well (somehow?), we might get a nice price bump Wink
A nice idea but I fear the two philosophies are incongruent. having said that... a solarcoin store in general wouldn't be a bad idea. My wife has a very successful organic candle manufacturing business and I know she will support the Solarcoin as payment. If we find other 'Green' sellers perhaps we could make a §Bay store.
If i'm not mistaken there are already open source solutions like 'Dark Market' that we can modify, not that i'd have a clue about that mind you.
Or... if they could give us the web site source and we modify it, i'm sure we can populate it with product for Solarcoin!
Does anyone know them well enough for them to do that?

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October 21, 2014, 03:14:45 PM
 #492

I agree with you.

People want to connect Crypto to real money. Like Cannabis Coin, Uro Coin...

The just want to calculate like 'Crypto : Fiat or Crypto : Something valuable'.

To form strong background for Solarcoin-eco system. I suggests followings.

* PV vendor adoption.

To become green-money, first vendor should be Photovoltaic company. Almost every company spend money in discount, promotion, and rebate.

For example, a company sells roof-top PV system with 90% fiat, 10% SLR. (like discount coupon)

At first, company receive 90% of price and 10% of SLR. This stage, SLR portion is less than price, because of low SLR price.

However, this promotion will add real world value to SLR.

Eventually, A company will recover value from SLR portion.

What do you think about this?


 


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vipgelsi
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October 21, 2014, 03:50:38 PM
 #493

21 solarcoins a minute. Grin

LuckyKey
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October 21, 2014, 04:38:54 PM
 #494

You know…just thinking some   Smiley

If we wanted the value of slr to go up, there is a potential quick-win. If we could leverage the efforts of our friends at cannacoin, i.e. to accept solarcoin as well (somehow?), we might get a nice price bump Wink
A nice idea but I fear the two philosophies are incongruent. having said that... a solarcoin store in general wouldn't be a bad idea. My wife has a very successful organic candle manufacturing business and I know she will support the Solarcoin as payment. If we find other 'Green' sellers perhaps we could make a §Bay store.
If i'm not mistaken there are already open source solutions like 'Dark Market' that we can modify, not that i'd have a clue about that mind you.

I'm not so sure they cannot coexist as a method of payment.  In fact we may see many new forms of payment systems in the coming years, that support multiple cryptocurrencies?  I don't know if they have to have a philosophical connection or not?  One simply doesn't have to use it if they prefer not to?  I don't think it breaks a cryptocurrency to have it as an alternate payment option for something else tangible (i.e.; a joint?), however it could promote the coin if given the option/exposure. The US dollar can be used to buy many things good, bad, evil, against the law, etc. Would you want to draw a line in the sand and vote on the righteousness of every possible usage of the coin?  I don't think so.  It's up to the consumer to use it or not. 

Just thinking any and all promotion is good  Wink

 
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October 21, 2014, 05:47:00 PM
 #495

SolarCoin is already an option in the Cannapay system. It's still in beta though but it's there.

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October 21, 2014, 06:45:02 PM
 #496

Nick is on the right track (as usual). We need a good technology expert to find a good way of automating solarcoin grants. I know floorwalker is working on a system, and I'm sure there's more technology that needs to be put into place. I'm afraid I can't offer more than encouragement and maybe a suggestion or two. I know there is a way to ensure everyone plays fair through encryption. I like the idea of verifying solar output through name plate registration, it makes sense and avoids a lot of technical problems. Really though on a personal level when it comes to solar power generation isn't the lions share of solar going to come from large farms anyway? I think focusing on that would be a good idea, it will help iron out the kinks in the system. Maybe there can be a server that can track peoples power bill data and cross reference this info with solar power farms in their area to interpolate an acceptable data set.

I don't know. I've taken too much aspirin, managed to hurt my back yesterday. So whatever I say it must sound like incoherent rambling.

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October 21, 2014, 07:56:12 PM
 #497

For example, a company sells roof-top PV system with 90% fiat, 10% SLR. (like discount coupon)

At first, company receive 90% of price and 10% of SLR. This stage, SLR portion is less than price, because of low SLR price.

However, this promotion will add real world value to SLR.

Eventually, A company will recover value from SLR portion.

What do you think about this?

I think it's a great idea. I'm a HUGE believer in the importance of business adoption of a currency, in order for something to become a bona fide currency rather than just an investment product. A 10% SLR coupon program seems like a perfect way to start.

A few other people, including myself, have suggested the same idea, and there has been some discussion about it behind the scenes. Like with incorporation, I have gotten the impression that the founders are considering a SLR coupon program but are undecided.

I think it's great that more people such as yourself are bringing forward ideas for discussion in the community. I look forward to seeing action to move forward on such ideas.

Grantcoin: Currency with a Conscience. Distributed as charitable grants by a 501(c)(3) tax-exempt nonprofit organization. Learn more at Grantcoin.org
freebird
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October 21, 2014, 08:10:10 PM
 #498

I want to encourage everyone who posts in this thread -- especially the big investors -- to reach out to Nick and Joe and begin volunteering for the SolarCoin project. This project belongs in the hands of its investors and passionate supporters. Get in touch with the founders and share your ideas, and offer to help. Ask for a share in the decision-making authority if you have ideas for how you think this project should grow and develop and you're willing to work for the cause. This is how great projects are built. People working together for common goals with incentives for mutual benefit. Smiley

Grantcoin: Currency with a Conscience. Distributed as charitable grants by a 501(c)(3) tax-exempt nonprofit organization. Learn more at Grantcoin.org
TKKP
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October 21, 2014, 08:12:36 PM
 #499

can this coin be mined still?
freebird
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October 21, 2014, 08:14:48 PM
 #500

can this coin be mined still?

Yes, but not for much longer. Maybe a couple more weeks.

Grantcoin: Currency with a Conscience. Distributed as charitable grants by a 501(c)(3) tax-exempt nonprofit organization. Learn more at Grantcoin.org
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