[ANN][SLR] SolarCoin | PoW to PoS v. 2.0 | Solar Proof of Generation (§1 = 1MWh)

[solarcoiner]

In fact we've already witnessed a doubling in value with the successful implementation of PoST, and incorporation into a public services company. These things add value, and as we build more into the concept more value will be added, as well as claims. As this occurs it'll attract more investment into technology to service acceptance. As well as emerging technology already in progress with embedded technology to track claims and automate the process. All of this software and hardware coming together will add even more value to the project.

All of the progress is great couldn't agree more, that is why I hope to expand on them. I don't think that using the current model will make any real difference though it is like building this great Sailboat and hoisting sail in a vacuum finding out you built it inside a bottle.

BitCoin went up in price and that helped SolarCoin double. But again I will show you how to manipulate the market if you want me to prove it to you. Taking a total number of coin and stating it is meaningful in todays Crypto only makes us look silly. Coins can go to NIL Zip Zero NADA and when a coin is created and pumped that coin can toot their own horn. Getting people who mined it to agree that the coin will skyrocket is easy, but when you give it away for free it tends to have a different connotation.

So the only reason why the market hasn't plummeted just FYI, is the fact that there are no real merchants. So as long as there are no merchants SolarCoin will continue to rise and then sell off big chunks and buy up small increments to put the price back to where it was.

The Solarcoin price didn't go up because bitcoin went up. A couple of days ago you said Solarcoin is going up because bitcoin was going down... You have to make up your mind. The Solarcoin price went up because I bought close to 150k these last three weeks. Not only me but there were also some other big buys! Suppply and demand....
But if you do feel like manipulating the market how about down so my buy orders get filled?  

Can't wait to read what you have in mind for Solarcoin but to be honest I like it just the way it is now. Until now I don't see anyone stupid enough to dump Solarcoin all the way down to zero. But if it does you can be sure it will rebound. Because there are people who see value in it. You have no idea how many bitcoins i am ready to convert if the price is right again

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[solarcoiner]

....
Cyptonick: Why do you assume all solarcoin claimers will sell right away? Im sure there will be plenty of people who would rather just keep their coins rather than selling, especially because you don't get many coins from claiming and there is a lot of upside potential.
I know what you mean there might be some who will sell right away but Im sure there are many people like me who would gladly buy their Solarcoins at the right price  

I didn't mean it that way if it came across like that, I know there will be holders but all Claimers will be sellers. This is the only thing to be true since it costs them nothing to Claim and they want value out for the time it took to claim. There may not be enough value to entice them to claim right now too. But eventually when the price pumps up legitimately or fake volume (we won't know fake/real) then there might be more claimers. So this would make me assume that Claimers would also be sellers, along with any holders who waited to sell.

So it perpetuates the selling either way, not the buying, and even if they buy they wish to make money and sell. This is the basis of the markets but there is no PnL or corporate structure to base worth on. Again the only thing that makes BitCoin worth something is the cost of infrastructure and ASIC costs and Power Costs and willingness to buy it, vs. the scarcity of it, vs. demand. So we know these take an ROI to pay for just to find BitCoin.

So the 2 models don't even extrapolate value against each other unless sold to one, and the main intention was noble of SolarCoin but it is backwards causing BitCoin to be gained as the exiting denomination of choice. The reason for granting SolarCoin, is that they don't want to infringe on a Securities exchange act, and by giving SolarCoin away it helps that perception of legality. But I am not sure if SolarCoin can keep the Dev Fund since that may be considered Class A stock. Yet anyone could have mined the coin so it is still a representation of a Share that has worth and Devs could have mined instead of using a Dev fund, or both for that matter. So there is the Paradox. How do you get around all of the legalities and do something positive? Very fine line to try to walk...

It's easy to say all claimers will be sellers. Maybe in the distant future. But for now it's an experiment in the early stages just like bitcoin in 2009.
At this point Solarcoin really just needs a couple dollars of investment a day to maintain it's current price. As crazy as this sounds I also think we will see the day where Solarcoin gets accepted on Coinbase or btc-e.

You make some valid points but I really think anyone who didn't mine Solarcoin or hasn't bought a few only has themself to blame. It's been out there for years now. Yet people would still rather put their money in Paycoin or Dash and other crap like that.
Fine with me but but let's just hope they don't come crying when their coin is worth jack shit and Solarcoin becomes more popular. Of course you will have people like me and others maybe also the devs that have been mining this for ages and have also bought a decent amount of coins. I would not have expected anything else. If this was my coin I would have been a supporter from the start! Noone knows how much the devs have but they deserve whatever they have.
I remember when blocks used to be 100 SLR for mining :p good days haha

[CryptoNick]

In fact we've already witnessed a doubling in value with the successful implementation of PoST, and incorporation into a public services company. These things add value, and as we build more into the concept more value will be added, as well as claims. As this occurs it'll attract more investment into technology to service acceptance. As well as emerging technology already in progress with embedded technology to track claims and automate the process. All of this software and hardware coming together will add even more value to the project.

All of the progress is great couldn't agree more, that is why I hope to expand on them. I don't think that using the current model will make any real difference though it is like building this great Sailboat and hoisting sail in a vacuum finding out you built it inside a bottle.

BitCoin went up in price and that helped SolarCoin double. But again I will show you how to manipulate the market if you want me to prove it to you. Taking a total number of coin and stating it is meaningful in todays Crypto only makes us look silly. Coins can go to NIL Zip Zero NADA and when a coin is created and pumped that coin can toot their own horn. Getting people who mined it to agree that the coin will skyrocket is easy, but when you give it away for free it tends to have a different connotation.

So the only reason why the market hasn't plummeted just FYI, is the fact that there are no real merchants. So as long as there are no merchants SolarCoin will continue to rise and then sell off big chunks and buy up small increments to put the price back to where it was.

The Solarcoin price didn't go up because bitcoin went up. A couple of days ago you said Solarcoin is going up because bitcoin was going down... You have to make up your mind. The Solarcoin price went up because I bought close to 150k these last three weeks. Not only me but there were also some other big buys! Suppply and demand....
But if you do feel like manipulating the market how about down so my buy orders get filled?  

Can't wait to read what you have in mind for Solarcoin but to be honest I like it just the way it is now. Until now I don't see anyone stupid enough to dump Solarcoin all the way down to zero. But if it does you can be sure it will rebound. Because there are people who see value in it. You have no idea how many bitcoins i am ready to convert if the price is right again

You said there was a dump earlier and I said that the price stabilized. You missed my point earlier and applied it to this conversation since the price had gone down when I stated that it was about you mentioning a dump. The value went up since BitCoin went up, obviously the price has gone up while bitcoin is up this makes the price rise much faster and Helping the value against the BitCoin Price so you may have confused me saying BitCoin price with SolarCoin price... but this means a dump is inevitable. Buy low sell high, even if it now goes to 10 cents it will then dump down after you sell. Although someone will buy the small increments at 10 cents after the dump to try to stabilize.

Well I wasn't going to move the market at all maybe 1 satoshi and do 1 million volume to show you how silly the markets are. It would only make Bittrex trade fees though but if I wanted to move the coin and take out your positions I could do so, but I was not the one to get the coins for cheap like most miners so I am not the one to worry about doing this activity since it costs me money to do so. Anyone who mined the coin as a large coin holder would have the ability. No one has done it so great, but the price is still being slowly controlled. This is good news since it is done over time and will look more realistic.

Doesn't make sense in any coin to dump it to zero which is why the coins are pumped and then dumped.

[CryptoNick]

....
Cyptonick: Why do you assume all solarcoin claimers will sell right away? Im sure there will be plenty of people who would rather just keep their coins rather than selling, especially because you don't get many coins from claiming and there is a lot of upside potential.
I know what you mean there might be some who will sell right away but Im sure there are many people like me who would gladly buy their Solarcoins at the right price  

I didn't mean it that way if it came across like that, I know there will be holders but all Claimers will be sellers. This is the only thing to be true since it costs them nothing to Claim and they want value out for the time it took to claim. There may not be enough value to entice them to claim right now too. But eventually when the price pumps up legitimately or fake volume (we won't know fake/real) then there might be more claimers. So this would make me assume that Claimers would also be sellers, along with any holders who waited to sell.

So it perpetuates the selling either way, not the buying, and even if they buy they wish to make money and sell. This is the basis of the markets but there is no PnL or corporate structure to base worth on. Again the only thing that makes BitCoin worth something is the cost of infrastructure and ASIC costs and Power Costs and willingness to buy it, vs. the scarcity of it, vs. demand. So we know these take an ROI to pay for just to find BitCoin.

So the 2 models don't even extrapolate value against each other unless sold to one, and the main intention was noble of SolarCoin but it is backwards causing BitCoin to be gained as the exiting denomination of choice. The reason for granting SolarCoin, is that they don't want to infringe on a Securities exchange act, and by giving SolarCoin away it helps that perception of legality. But I am not sure if SolarCoin can keep the Dev Fund since that may be considered Class A stock. Yet anyone could have mined the coin so it is still a representation of a Share that has worth and Devs could have mined instead of using a Dev fund, or both for that matter. So there is the Paradox. How do you get around all of the legalities and do something positive? Very fine line to try to walk...

It's easy to say all claimers will be sellers. Maybe in the distant future. But for now it's an experiment in the early stages just like bitcoin in 2009.
At this point Solarcoin really just needs a couple dollars of investment a day to maintain it's current price. As crazy as this sounds I also think we will see the day where Solarcoin gets accepted on Coinbase or btc-e.

You make some valid points but I really think anyone who didn't mine Solarcoin or hasn't bought a few only has themself to blame. It's been out there for years now. Yet people would still rather put their money in Paycoin or Dash and other crap like that.
Fine with me but but let's just hope they don't come crying when their coin is worth jack shit and Solarcoin becomes more popular. Of course you will have people like me and others maybe also the devs that have been mining this for ages and have also bought a decent amount of coins. I would not have expected anything else. If this was my coin I would have been a supporter from the start! Noone knows how much the devs have but they deserve whatever they have.
I remember when blocks used to be 100 SLR for mining :p good days haha

I know there will be things to buy in the Future but that also means that Claimers will buy things and Merchants will sell. It is in effect the same thing so all claimers are Sellers no matter what. The only holders are buyers since they have to hold until the price reaches a profit. So a small percentage of Crypto users are the Buyers and Holders of the coin, everyone else participates by selling. Do you see how buyers are going to be caught and trapped in the market with only losses to take? You can't say this since you mined the coin and have a great hedge. So buying now for you is a pittance to what a real buyer will experience.

The Leaky Ceiling applies too so run the numbers all the way past 10 cents to whatever the max price is for SolarCoin $120. This causes a hurricane of claims and the roof is gonna fly off and demolish the house. I don't suppose you will be able to buy all those up yourself?

Well again I am only trying to make it a better scenario as the current model can and will work but how effective it is will be the only question. It won't effectively make BitCoin use less Power by feeding BitCoin to the Claimers or miners for that matter, do you see the paradox? My idea will stabilize and energize the SolarCoin base and allow growth exponentially.

[nickgogerty]

Didn't see this before.

http://solarcoin.org/en/wiring-the-sun-to-the-financial-network-with-a-blockchain/

12kw a transaction? That's crazy. Still less than your typical brick and mortar bank, but I like the solarcoin comparison. It's basically free.

Spreadsheet has been updated. Its actually worse.  https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1QzIA5Nd3pVRGn2c48Oc_dqpImrOfYlwp74UzHXjArdE/edit#gid=1927231694

[corather]

Didn't see this before.

http://solarcoin.org/en/wiring-the-sun-to-the-financial-network-with-a-blockchain/

12kw a transaction? That's crazy. Still less than your typical brick and mortar bank, but I like the solarcoin comparison. It's basically free.

Spreadsheet has been updated. Its actually worse.  https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1QzIA5Nd3pVRGn2c48Oc_dqpImrOfYlwp74UzHXjArdE/edit#gid=1927231694

That's impressive. I'm sure as technology gets more efficient costs will come down a bit, but it's impossible to catch up with cpu driven technology which gets more and more efficient every year, and already uses much less energy.

[y_virtual]

http://nakamotoinstitute.org/mempool/speculative-attack/

[Solaris33]

Securing the SolarCoin Generator Pool is a top priority of the SolarCoin Foundation for 2016
The SolarCoin Foundation would like to present the following Generator Pool Security Framework to the community for comment.

Please refer to the following Security Engineering book as a reference: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/book.html
Some common wallet security practices for crypto-currencies are:
 -Cold Storage of wallets (currently implemented for the generator pool)
 -Small amount of coin available for issuance at any one point in time (reduce risk by shrinking the size of the target)
 -Multi-signature authentication (m of n) from separate resources to access wallets
 -Proactive security of posting 100% collateral to access wallets

Generator Pool Security Examples
SLR Drip 1
- 97.5 B SLR in generator pool is replaced with a 97.5B notional algorithm that “drips” a set amount (X) of SLR to a granting wallet (s) and replenishes it based on granting activity.
- Access to granting wallet requires multi signature authentication from separate sources
- Proactive security measure of posting a high SLR collateral amount to have access to the granting wallet
- The SLR posted collateral to access the granting wallet will be forfeited back to the generator pool if certain predefined activities are not met.
SLR Drip 2
- Same as SLR Drip 1
- 97.5 B SLR in generator pool is transformed in a smart contract to have a waterfall transfer that “drips” a set amount (X) of SLR to a granting wallet (s) and replenishes it based on granting activity.

Please provide feedback on this important security requirement.
Regards,
The SolarCoin Foundation
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Generator Pool Security Framework

Goals
 Static
  -Non-stop Function (high availability)
  -No single actor or point of failure can limit global granting
  -Ease of repeated use
  -Transparency whenever possible
  -Security for at least 40 years
  -Fail safe (failure has limited repercussions)
 Dynamic
  -Future group proof (expanding and rolling control) oversight
    -Ability to "reset" system in extreme without hardfork? i.e. transfer all coins to new secure account hardwired with new "secure" system.
    -40 year design
  -Trusted Control either by people/and machine
  -Increasingly "distributed de-centralized " control

Constraint Dimension
 Static
  -Limit outbound flow to 1MWh = 1SLR parity or claimed parity
  -Must by consensus community acceptable in terms of "control" and over-rides
  -Genesis pool must not be greater than 5% of circulating SLR
  -Simple solutions preferred over Complex solutions
 Dynamic
  -Don't know future location(s) of future lock control of wallets and keys
  -Not sure about future wallet technology
  -Don’t know future demand
  -Don't know future users or "owners" of pool, keys, locks

Ideal end functioning state
 -Fully decentralized granting
 -Automatic granting of verified claims
   -No non-verified transactions
 -Impervious to external probes / attacks
 -Fully transparent security (decentralized nature of ownership)

Failure points/modes
 Wallet(s) lock holder(s)
  Wallet publication
    Human compromised (black mail etc.)
      actors who want to shut it down economically (macro actors likely TAX/regulate out of existence)
         Geo political Threat
           -Explicit seizure
           -"wealth" taxation
           -technical blocking IP
           -Wallet Seizure
           -key seizure
   Wallet loss
   Obsolete security (technology overwhelms it Quantum crypto etc.)
      -Cracking technology improves
  Disburse account (send from) account
 Key(s)
   -Key theft
   -Key publication
   -Key loss
     -Death of holder/loss
 Requestors claimant(affiliate/sub affiliates)
  -Community
     -Community Suicide "Scarcity gone wild" (kill the generator pool)
     -Community Suicide "claims gone wild" (hyper inflation)
  -lost wallets
  -lost keys
 SolarCoin transactions
  -Community
    -disagrees with grant
  -Coin Theft
  -Device weaknesses
     -IP snooping
     -inbuilt wallet weakness BIP100
     -Server weakness
     -man in the middle type attacks
  -Confirmation requirements
 SLR Request for claim payment
 SolarCoin Blockchain
  -Hardfork
    -spam/spim
       -hackers (halt of inhibit for fun)
 SolarCoin blockchain explorer
   -Message spoofing
 Key Holder(s)
  -Blackmail coercion legal tax
  -lost keys
  -publication of keys
  -hack (known)
  -hacked unknown
  -key transfer
  -key distribution
 Failure scenarios
  -Each element should have a failure scenario (stops functions) what it over-ride protocol and worst failure event.
   

[vipgelsi]

The work going on with this coin is truly impressive.

I like drip 1

We are in on the ground floor people congrats.

[lfloorwalker]

http://nakamotoinstitute.org/mempool/speculative-attack/

This is a good read, thanks for the link.

Cheers and HNY to all in the SolarCoin world.
-lfloorwalker

[corather]

The work going on with this coin is truly impressive.

I like drip 1

We are in on the ground floor people congrats.

Drip 1 does sound intriguing. It would more or less squash peoples fears about the premine since it wouldn't be there anymore, but then there's always people you can't please. Would it keep some people happy all of the time? Yes. That's really all you can ask for.

[y_virtual]

http://forums.prohashing.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=701

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3yxy8r/why_did_voorhees_start_an_altcoin_company_after/

[syclone]

Is it worth Staking this coin?  If so where is the wallet ?  Checked the ANN page, no go.

Thanks

[vipgelsi]

Is it worth Staking this coin?  If so where is the wallet ?  Checked the ANN page, no go.

Thanks

Solrcoin.org has wallet link.

[corather]

http://forums.prohashing.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=701

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3yxy8r/why_did_voorhees_start_an_altcoin_company_after/

That prohashing article was very insightful. It's quite obvious in the internet of things, having a rigid system no longer works. Everything on the internet evolves with time, either getting more efficient or fixing problems that the old software can't cope with anymore. Bitcoin is no exception. It is after all the "next killer app" of the internet, but like email it can and may well be replaced with the next best thing, or things.

[y_virtual]

https://btcmanager.com/news/business/interview-with-paxful-how-it-all-started-the-future-of-bitcoin-and-their-new-affiliate-program/

[y_virtual]

The work going on with this coin is truly impressive.

I like drip 1

We are in on the ground floor people congrats.

Drip 1 does sound intriguing. It would more or less squash peoples fears about the premine since it wouldn't be there anymore, but then there's always people you can't please. Would it keep some people happy all of the time? Yes. That's really all you can ask for.

Drip 2 includes Drip 1, plus it will add the smart contract functionality - IMO this would allow building upon the base functionality and fine tuning on-the-go to meet any current and future specs and requirements of the Generator Pool Security Framework as presented in the layout.

[solarcoiner]

This all sounds great. I think as long as we make the claiming process secured by an algorithm and automated. So that no trust is needed. If we can make this happen I think the only way is up for Solarcoin

[corather]

The work going on with this coin is truly impressive.

I like drip 1

We are in on the ground floor people congrats.

Drip 1 does sound intriguing. It would more or less squash peoples fears about the premine since it wouldn't be there anymore, but then there's always people you can't please. Would it keep some people happy all of the time? Yes. That's really all you can ask for.

Drip 2 includes Drip 1, plus it will add the smart contract functionality - IMO this would allow building upon the base functionality and fine tuning on-the-go to meet any current and future specs and requirements of the Generator Pool Security Framework as presented in the layout.

Well that's even better. We're watching the evolution of crypto currency unfold. This is exciting.

[vipgelsi]

The work going on with this coin is truly impressive.

I like drip 1

We are in on the ground floor people congrats.

Drip 1 does sound intriguing. It would more or less squash peoples fears about the premine since it wouldn't be there anymore, but then there's always people you can't please. Would it keep some people happy all of the time? Yes. That's really all you can ask for.

Drip 2 includes Drip 1, plus it will add the smart contract functionality - IMO this would allow building upon the base functionality and fine tuning on-the-go to meet any current and future specs and requirements of the Generator Pool Security Framework as presented in the layout.

Well that's even better. We're watching the evolution of crypto currency unfold. This is exciting.

Sounds good! Change my vote to Drip 2