Bitcoin craze dying down?

[BTCevo]

Is it just me or does it seem like the bitcoin "craze" has died down a lot? Not as much people active in talking about it, and especially in other forums for altcoins, there used to be a lot of buzz and excitement but not any more it seems

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[Neotox]

no. i don't think so
just bcoz some altcoin forum users are not talking about this isn't mean that bitcoin craze dying

Look i m crazy about bitcoin         

[zolace]

The bitcoin gold rush will sail again when the price booms and panick to buy steps in.  but that wont happen till a  matter of years of now I beleive.  Also If buying miners was much cheaper and you can go ROI in two months it will get very popular, right now is hot to the miners and the ones who got into it early.

[niothor]

Is it just me or does it seem like the bitcoin "craze" has died down a lot? Not as much people active in talking about it, and especially in other forums for altcoins, there used to be a lot of buzz and excitement but not any more it seems

Altcoins  are like mushrooms , they thrive only after rain. In this case only when there is  bitcoin hype.

As for the craze dying down how you said , there are more and more companies accepting bitcoin , the page in the press section is full with only 1 or 2 days article as there is an avalache of it and you're saying is going down?

[RodeoX]

Just yesterday PayPal hints that they may get on-board and the United Way, the worlds largest charity, starts taking bitcoin. A year ago that would be the biggest news yet. Now it barely registers. The growth we are seeing now is massive.
 

[chennan]

don't spread fud here. I haven't heard any issue with bitcoin yet. I assume some people are dumping their coins and cause the price decline a little bit. It definitely will be covered back.

[IIOII]

You should not equate the current price with the fundamental situation. I see a lot of progress, with new companies accepting Bitcoin every day.

Euphoria will come soon enough when prices are on the rise again. I think it's a good thing, that Bitcoin price has come down a bit and is less volatile, because it facilitates improvements on the infrastructure. It would be too soon if mainstream joined Bitcoin right now. The infrastructure is not ready for this.

[franky1]

this time last year bitcoin went from $90 down to $70 and people were shouting that bitcoin craze was dying out.. then as october approached it went above $100, and then up up up.

you want to know why september-october is so important..

think about these three countries
thailand, costa rica, america.. then click this link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiscal_year#Chart_of_various_fiscal_years

if your old enough to actually bother paying tax, then you will know

[BTCevo]

don't spread fud here. I haven't heard any issue with bitcoin yet. I assume some people are dumping their coins and cause the price decline a little bit. It definitely will be covered back.

I'm not spreading fud, I'm making an observation, feathercoin forum used to be very active, but now its not really that active, also the vertcoin forum is completely gone, the values of these coins is also dropped considerably.

Plus I'm asking what the community thinks..

[BTCevo]

this time last year bitcoin went from $90 down to $70 and people were shouting that bitcoin craze was dying out.. then as october approached it went above $100, and then up up up.

you want to know why september-october is so important..

think about these three countries
thailand, costa rica, america.. then click this link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiscal_year#Chart_of_various_fiscal_years

if your old enough to actually bother paying tax, then you will know

Smart. So when everyones taxes are due they buy into bitcoin to avoid taxes lol

[DannyHamilton]

don't spread fud here. I haven't heard any issue with bitcoin yet. I assume some people are dumping their coins and cause the price decline a little bit. It definitely will be covered back.

I'm not spreading fud, I'm making an observation, feathercoin forum used to be very active, but now its not really that active, also the vertcoin forum is completely gone, the values of these coins is also dropped considerably.

Plus I'm asking what the community thinks..

Yes, the altcoin/scamcoin craze has died down a bit.

What does that have to do with bitcoin though?

[uki]

this time last year bitcoin went from $90 down to $70 and people were shouting that bitcoin craze was dying out.. then as october approached it went above $100, and then up up up.

you want to know why september-october is so important..

think about these three countries
thailand, costa rica, america.. then click this link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiscal_year#Chart_of_various_fiscal_years

if your old enough to actually bother paying tax, then you will know

valid point. In terms of price decline we are not out of the woods yet, but there is still enough time till the end of the year to turn this into a positive teritory.

[ChuckBuck]

Bitcoin craze is not dying down.  Sure in raw mentions or retweets or viral speak, maybe it's not the hot topic cooler talk like the Mt. Gox days.

Just in the past week, PayPal accepted it in their One Touch payment, CNN tweeted and has a Bitcoin Composite Page, the United Way added Bitcoin as a donation method, and Reddit is challenging it's vaunted community on how to integrate Bitcoin into their Advertising strategy.

Those are significant partnerships and progressive leaps over where we were a year or two ago.

Bitcoin maybe not on the lips and mouths of every non technical person you talk to yet, but you can bet large scale companies and corporations are trying to figure out how to monetize the shit out of this Cryptocurrency.

...and please don't bring up Alt/Shitcoins again, all those coins are similar to penny stocks.  Pure speculative pump and dumps.

[richardramirez9]

The money dumb whales may be dying down, but the revolution beggins, when real pressure is put into people to OWN BTC because their lovely FIAT MONEY IS CRASHING , then we will see 1 million per coin.

[counter]

Bitcoin hasn't even caught on yet to the general public and more business are accepting Bitcoin everyday.  People are interested in Bitcoin but not sure where to learn more about it.  When they aware of Bitcoin(which could be any moment).  The "craze" will be many times larger then the last "craze".  Bitcoin is lightyears ahead of where it was last year.  The price is not a good indicator of the real value of Bitcoin.  Just my 2 Satoshis   

[freedomno1]

In the circles I frequent right now discussion is slowing down for sure
But in the background a lot of people are trying to set up bitcoin companies and similar ventures
So quiet on one front and moving rapidly on the other even in the forum you see a lot of people looking for cofounders etc atm
In a sense things are just getting interesting.

[acoindr]

In the circles I frequent right now discussion is slowing down for sure
But in the background a lot of people are trying to set up bitcoin companies and similar ventures ...

Yep, sounds like one of those 'silence is deadly' cases

[keithers]

Is it just me or does it seem like the bitcoin "craze" has died down a lot? Not as much people active in talking about it, and especially in other forums for altcoins, there used to be a lot of buzz and excitement but not any more it seems

Altcoins  are like mushrooms , they thrive only after rain. In this case only when there is  bitcoin hype.

As for the craze dying down how you said , there are more and more companies accepting bitcoin , the page in the press section is full with only 1 or 2 days article as there is an avalache of it and you're saying is going down?

This is actually a really good simile    It actually perfectly describes the ups and downs of most alts...

[cyberpinoy]

this time last year bitcoin went from $90 down to $70 and people were shouting that bitcoin craze was dying out.. then as october approached it went above $100, and then up up up.

you want to know why september-october is so important..

think about these three countries
thailand, costa rica, america.. then click this link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiscal_year#Chart_of_various_fiscal_years

if your old enough to actually bother paying tax, then you will know

Well if you want to use fundamentals thats a great way to look at things, but lets add common logic with your fundamentals, I see bitcoins hitting 90 dollars by the end of the year. Let me tell you why.  

Its what i like to call the Dell Dump. What is the Dell Dump? The Dell Dump is is the name I gave the situation where all companies involved in accepting bitcoin dump their coins for fiat. If you have been watching closely for the past 3 months steadily every 2 weeks the value of bitcoins drops 15 to 30 dollars and bounces back and forth 3 to 5 dollars for 2 weeks then drops again 15 to 30 dollars. You can also see it is not rebounding like it used to. Because companies like Dell are dumping their coins for fiat and NO ONE is actually buying enough coins to compensate the sell off from all these companies. Since no one really has a need or a want for Bitcoins it is slowly falling apart at the seams. It will not rebound like all the people hope. Until you believers do something about your ever so resilient Bitcoin or the developers find a way to secure a true demand for Bitcoins, you will not have to worry it will not make it to the 21 million release you will be lucky to see the next halving in rewards.

On top of the Dell Dump Bitcoin mining is not profitable anymore, and intelligent miners with small mines are no longer mining BTC, a lot of the pools are ripping members off, the rewards are getting smaller by the day and intelligent miners have found other ways to benefit from the machines they bought, and guess what they are doing, selling the crap out of Bitcoins.

Truth is truth, no demand, no reason to buy bitcoins.We already know the transaction is not faster, no one cares about anonymity except criminals. What the people want is ease and Bitcoin (which is not in its infancy anymore) is not faster in any way. It is actually much more complex for most people. We as humans especially ones with money are lazy and stupid. The rich people want everything at their fingertips, ease of use, ease of everything, they want to be able to let someone else do all the work for them. With all the scammer, hackers, and swindlers in the bitcoin industry, you cant trust anyojhne to do anything right now. So if you dont have even just a little bit of coding experience, getting into bitcoin is simply put, to complex for the people we need here and involved. Its easier for them to just use their visa and buy what they want.

So yes the bitcoin craze is dying, and will continue to do so until it evolves a true demand. Dont listen to the idiots who just call it a bubble, they are stupid and base their response on hope and not common logic. Logic tells you the truth, it will not do what it did last year or the year before, if you have been watching this year news releases have had very little effect on Bitcoin, the additional companies we have picked up (LIKE DELL) have not helped Bitcoin but rather hurt us very badly, so badly the price has done nothing but fall fall fall. There has been absolutely no good honest work from the development team in 5 years that has done anything for the security of the coins future. We have NO DEMAND for bitcoin. without a demand it will fail Pure and simple

I unfortunately fear Bitcoin will end up being the longest running pump and dump scheme the world has ever seen.

[Lauda]

Yet another FUD post above. They are endless and should be completely ignored.
People are impatient. Adoption takes time, just look at just about any major invention.
From Electricity, TV, PC, Internet.. and guess what. Bitcoin is one of the best things that happened in the recent years.

[cyberpinoy]

Yet another FUD post above. They are endless and should be completely ignored.
People are impatient. Adoption takes time, just look at just about any major invention.
From Electricity, TV, PC, Internet.. and guess what. Bitcoin is one of the best things that happened in the recent years.

Its been 5 years how much more time do you need to get off your ass and create a true demand and not false hope?

With a true DEMAND comes adoption, why wait for people to accept and adopt the coin, give them a reason to

How ironic the things you need to help you create the demand to send the coin over 2000 dollars are Electricity, TV, PC, Internet. Thats about it. Why not use those and prove me wrong because if you look at the charts they clearly prove my FUD post correct

[acoindr]

We have NO DEMAND for bitcoin. without a demand it will fail Pure and simple

That applies to any currency.

Take a look around the Bitcoin community. Note the excitement, investment and overall constructive environment. Then note headlines like this:

Venezuela's annual inflation rises to 63.4%

S&P Downgrades Venezuela on Worsening Economy

Next realize fiat currencies worldwide are (incredibly) inflationary and usually not transparent, while Bitcoin is effectively the opposite. Still betting Bitcoin is the loser here?

[CtrlAltBernanke420]

The govt and the banks enjoy their model. It has the ability to financially war real and financial wars. They like this. I am not sure the govt likes the banks, which is why some of them would prefer a bitcoin model. The bankers enjoy their grasp on society and so far society does not seem to mind inflation and rising inequality

People do not under stand bitcoin, its price, its supply. I do suspect eventually 10-15 million coins will be owned by at least 5-10 million people. This right here would be enough to not only potentially take bitcoin viral, but there are a lot of trend, a lot of articles regarding bitcoin, but the way they keep hitting the headlines, the high level people coming out with well understood assessments of bitcoin absolutely see the benefits. This trend reminds me a lot of all the article written in the media over the past 10 years regarding medical marijuana, where as today the articles are largely 65% of the nation thing marijuana should be treated like alcohol.. Point being we have 26 state that allow for medical weed, and 2 states, soon to be up to 6 states that allow for recreational weed. Within 10 years weed will be as mainstream as a latte and sushi.

Bitcoin is going to have its own fights and challenges of perception to overcome. If the government came out with a coordinated a taxation and largely relaxed the drug war and a bunch of other business regulations and restrictions, bitcoin will really perhaps helped really create this digital gold cash economy. Driving all sorts of efficeincies likely at the end of this decade going into 2020's, by 2030 the real internet revolution will have taken hold as bitcoin is fully adopted.

It is hard to imagine Bitcoin not taking over in 5-15 years. The next few years are going to be perhaps relatively calm, but at some point of the legislators create a friendly environment, you will see every city, every neighborhood take such a large leap forward with major efficiencies for everyone.  

[master-P]

It's better to see the December/January price spike to be a rush of bitcoin craze rather than it dying down now. The price spike gave a surge of new users and adopters because of the media and the amount of profit being made by earlier adopters. Not that BTC will die down at all, I think things will just be moving slower/steadier in the next couple years until more people and even nations start adopting BTC as a viable currency.

[Nagle]

Its what i like to call the Dell Dump. What is the Dell Dump? The Dell Dump is is the name I gave the situation where all companies involved in accepting bitcoin dump their coins for fiat.

Most of the companies that accept  Bitcoins immediately convert them to fiat. Usually through Coinbase, because Coinbase is now integrated with several popular shopping cart programs. Coinbase then dumps them on some exchange.

That's just fine. Bitcoin is doing what it was originally supposed to do - support retail transactions. It's a medium of exchange. No problem there.

As an investment, Bitcoin generates no revenue, so it's inherently a poor investment. All gains from holding Bitcoin come at the expense of some loser somewhere. It's a zero-sum game.

[bornil267645]

not at all....it's just steadying up....

[enhu]

Because its now very difficult to mine, a lot of newbies just move on to other coins like black and monero. Stellar seem a good start.

[CtrlAltBernanke420]

Its what i like to call the Dell Dump. What is the Dell Dump? The Dell Dump is is the name I gave the situation where all companies involved in accepting bitcoin dump their coins for fiat.

Most of the companies that accept  Bitcoins immediately convert them to fiat. Usually through Coinbase, because Coinbase is now integrated with several popular shopping cart programs. Coinbase then dumps them on some exchange.

That's just fine. Bitcoin is doing what it was originally supposed to do - support retail transactions. It's a medium of exchange. No problem there.

As an investment, Bitcoin generates no revenue, so it's inherently a poor investment. All gains from holding Bitcoin come at the expense of some loser somewhere. It's a zero-sum game.

There will be a tipping point where entire supply chains will be capable to not requiring business to to cash out but rather restock their inventory by spending the bitcoin forward. Build the highway and soon enough cars trucks busses will soon be able to zoom through it en mass. Once this occurs efficiencies will drive into the market very quickly. This is still and year or so off, but even then it will happen sooner than most think it will.

[oceans]

I can't say I can see that myself, I still see many talking about it and with more companies accepting it it does not seem to be dying down from what I can see.

[CtrlAltBernanke420]

I can't say I can see that myself, I still see many talking about it and with more companies accepting it it does not seem to be dying down from what I can see.

What is true is there has not been a rush in and or a craze in buying it. I do suspect it will change over time. I have spoken to some who basically scoffed once he heard it was a digital data currency thing largerly pursued by computer hacker and criminals. But he is a 60 or so year old guy. I doubt he not interested in it still, but he is for the medium term watching sternly from the sidelines learning but not reacting to even major details.

[machinationus]

what about the commercial miners and miner manufactures having to sell most of the coins to pay bills?

And hash rate is still increasing like crazy, 4,675 BTC (today) must be brought for ~450
each and every day.
It's should be 3600 coins per day.
Most of the hobby miners would likely had hold the coin, but as more retailers come online they now can use the coin to buy stuff, retailers then sell coin.
Both cases puts price down, too much supply.
In 2016 price should change or most commercial miners go broke! (rewards half)

[Hox]

There has definitely been much less drama/hype around bitcoin lately, but most of that is fluff anyway. Lots of work is still being done in projects like Lighthouse and OpenBazaar. Once some of these projects are more mature we'll see the hype train at full speed again with another batch of new users.

[exocytosis]

More merchants come aboard all the time, thus causing more pressure on the sell side, thus driving price further down. With no Willybot to manipulate the price, BTC is destined for double digits.

3600 coins are mined every day. Miners gotta pay their bills. So they sell a lot of their mined stash.

[hyperdimension]

It hasnt even begun.

[bbit]

The price might be going down , but Bitcoin is just starting. I mean just imagine if you said the internet isn't going to work 5 years into it and look where it is now.

[counter]

If it was dying down then the price would be falling drastically so no still alive and ticking.  It's ticking sort of like a bomb just waiting for the right moment and then it will blow UP!!   

[JimminyCricket]

1. BTC is too slow - ordinary folk are not interested in waiting any longer than their debit card takes. They expect and demand a faster technology, not a slower one.

2. The general population is completely oblivious to the fact that the central banks/governments are fleecing them. It's simply too complicated a swindle for them to realise what's going on. The schmucks.

3. The BTC economy now is NOT as Satoshi intended. He intended millions of individual CPU's to do the mining, not a few factories of ASICs. Why is this important? Because a small number of groups have cornered mining and have manipulated the price to astronomic levels. Now that the difficulty is getting higher, and the Chinese have stepped in, these groups now have to sell as they mine to cover their costs - so the manipulation is undermined - and voila, the price drops.

4. The much-anticipated remittance opportunity is a dead duck at the moment - it can only work P2P if there is an easy way for people to directly spend their BTC after receiving them. Otherwise, the path is Fiat->BTC->Fiat->delivery (all via a third party, and all using conventional laws covering remittances)

5. The media (MSM) have correctly identified BTC as a threat to government power. As the slaves to the elite political class that they are, they have jumped all over the Mt Gox disaster and deliberately terrified the population. Ordinary people are now SCARED to use BTC, thanks to these manipulative MSM bastards.

6. The big investors - The City, Wall st - they are not fucking interested. They can see that cryptos are fully transparent - that's the last thing these criminals want.

7. Many governments are going to squash BTC under their heels (using state laws) under the fake reasoning of combating terrorism/gangsters. (The real reason is that cryptos would hemorrhage power from governments).

All in all, the picture looks very bleak to me. Most of the rise in BTC was due to enthusiastic investors, not enthusiastic users. Now I believe there is going to be a prolonged decline in price. And I think a different cryptocurrency will eventually take hold. Eventually, there will come a breakout crypto, and it won't be BTC. So place your bets, Ladies and Gentlemen...

[OrientA]

There are more and more adoptions of BTC. I am not worried about short term price drop of BTC.

[Kprawn]

Go to blockchain.info and watch the transactions fly! <--- Then tell me, it's dead.

Goto the transaction volume statistics and tell me it's dead. Best thing to do is to ignore FUD or laugh about it later.

We have seen huge merchants entering the BTC scene and it would automatically drive the price down, when more people spend their hoard coins.

I have long term vision with this, and this will be proven in time.

[Hunyadi]

this time last year bitcoin went from $90 down to $70 and people were shouting that bitcoin craze was dying out.. then as october approached it went above $100, and then up up up.

you want to know why september-october is so important..

think about these three countries
thailand, costa rica, america.. then click this link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiscal_year#Chart_of_various_fiscal_years

if your old enough to actually bother paying tax, then you will know

Never thought this. Nice!

[franky1]

blah blah
summarised tax year yend september

Its what i like to call the Dell Dump. What is the Dell Dump? The Dell Dump is is the name I gave the situation where all companies involved in accepting bitcoin dump their coins for fiat.

you have no clue.

you realise that on the main exchanges its not taking 13million coins(total circulation), its not taking 800k coins(rough hoard mtgox stole), its not taking 3600 coins (a days mining reward), it is only taking less then 500 coins to control the market price.

check out btc-e which most panicking sheeple use.. there is alot of dust and only walls of maybe 200coins causing a wall to stop the price rise.

now then lets move onto Dell and miners selling off:
most of these trades are NOT even done on exchanges. for instance 'overstock' hoards EVERY bitcoin. also dell does not do millions of dollars a day in bitcoin transactions, they do not do hundreds of thousands a day. its only a few coins a day.

so with that please understand that the exchange rates on the markets are only a true measure of a couple hundred coins, maximum of 500 coins at any one point.. NOT 13million coins.

you will see that more is being bought and sold via localbitcoins privately from hoards that dont touch exchanges. and also bitpay using private investment amounts which again are not ever touching an exchange. and non of these coins are taken into consideration when doing TRUE bitcoin valuations

the amount of average joe buyers do not want to put their bank account details on exchanges as their bank accounts get slammed and shutdown by their banks decision makers. exchanges like bitstamp/coinbase/btc-e DO NOT have customers doing large buys of $10k (22btc) simply because of all of these bank flags, and AML rules.

but once september is over and the truly smart people have sorted out their tax year and begin buying back in when october arrives, the bitcoin sellers that are selling privately will run out of coins to sell and they will grab a crap load from exchanges to continue to feed the private traders that do not want to touch exchanges personally/directly.

quick explanation of tax:
october 2013: imagine someone invested $2k(btc=$100 = 20btc)
september 2014: imagine bitcoin was their only income (20btc =$9000 this month) so buy cashing out every bitcoin they would be on the 0%-10% ta bracket (dependant on countries tax law) because their income is below poverty line and they have only made $7k profit(true income).
october 2014: imagine they put that $9k back in (making them initially minus $9k taxable) so even if bitcoin went upto $800 a coin their 20btc would be $16k, or put simply $7k profit. meaning they would be only taxed on $7k in 2015 (which in alot of countries is 0% due to income/profit being under $10k).

so alot of smart people cash out before the year end to maximum the next financial year end. this is due to the fact that if in october 2013 they put in that $2k and left it as bitcoin in 2014 and then cashed out in 2015, that $2k would become $16k meaning $14k profit in 2015 which means they WOULD pay tax..

so again smart people cash out at the end of the tax year and then buy in to maximise the 0% tax thresholds.

as for miners:
if they were really smart, instead of turning off mining completely they would be moving to altcoins simply to mine for a small profit to then swap for BTC meaning buying bitcoin.. which will eat up the sell wall

so just you wait.. you have not seen anything yet and you seem to be the kind of person that bases your investments on emotion rather than proper information, facts and statistics.

please add more statistics and facts, and research, do not rely on opinion and emotion. bitcoin is not dead, it is just preparing for the next leap.

use this oppertunity in sepember to buy in whil its cheap. or just like the cry babies of last year that missed out on september 2013's $70 bitcoin.. alot of you will be crying at christmas when you look back and say you wish you bought in at $450.

and if you are going to rebuttle that last christmas was a hype. you are correct. based on mining costs and true market valuation christmas last year should have been at$250-$350, not $1200.... this year i can see christmas not being $10k a coin, not being $5k a coin. but very very near $1k a coin based on statistics, not hype

[cyberpinoy]

use this oppertunity in sepember to buy in whil its cheap. or just like the cry babies of last year that missed out on september 2013's $70 bitcoin.. alot of you will be crying at christmas when you look back and say you wish you bought in at $450.

I do have a clue, I was a profitable forex trader long before I got into crypto. Not to toot my own horn but If I was able to beat the big banks at their manipulation and collusion games I think I know a train to ride when i see one.

You want to blindly act as if every single person in bitcoins follows your exact fundamental research, and that is why sooooo many people fail drastically in Forex. because fundamentals are just a guide not a full proof plan. when trading a currency seeing wehat it did this time last year is only a small percentage of the deciding factor of what its going to do tomorrow, you muist look atb its history as you have provided, then look at many other variables, who needs it and for what reason they need it, who all will be buying it and why. who may be selling it and why will they be selling it off. For BTC you have a lot more sellers this year thahn you did last year.the more companies we bring on to accept bitcoins who have fiat based businesses the more sellers we have attracted. (define Fiat based business- any business who must supply their business wit the use of cash, pay labor with the use of cash,) NO ONE can say exactly what is going to happen to any currency this year based on what happened last year or the year before. there are just to many variables ESPECIALLY in bitcoins. Bitcoin has no true demand and its values is strictly based upon the buying and selling on the tradable market. you said 500 BTC is the controlling factor in its movement, I can guarantee the companies accepting bitcons added with the miners cashing out well surpasses your 500 BTC every 2 weeks. and sellers are dominating.

As the price drops the holders that did get in at 70 bucks last year panic and sell off as well.

ALtho i call it the DELL DUMP you clearly did not read the definition very well, altho Dell is the name I used it represents all the companies accepting bitcoins dumping them every two weeks, and so far as you watch my false claims i know nothing about they still seem to be quite true. we are now dwindling between 446 and 450 a coin huh, in two weeks it ill be under 430.

People trading and exchanging and selling/buying off the exchanges doesnt help or hurt the value of bitcoin so for this discussion it is quite irrelevant. If people cared about BTC and really wanted it to grow you would do their best to sell person to person and buy online thru an exchange.

I am one of those smart miners as you call them have been doing it that way for a long long time actually because as far as profitability it is better to solo mine a crap coin exchange it for BTC however you left one very important step out of your process as I also DUMP the BTC I get for cash. so altho i am buying BTC with the crapcoins which only effects the value of BTC against the coin i have just sold I am also selling it against the USD value of bitcoin. selling my crapcoin for BTC has no effect on the BTC/USD value it will only effect the BTC/CRAP value. so I as a cash perspective miner only hurt the value of bitcoins and unfortunately I am not alone.

Keep in mind, we dont mine for BTC. I cant pay my electric with BTC or my car payment or my internet I must pay those with cash. My house payment my childrens school supplies and clothes, everything I need to survive and allow my mine to function is paid for in cash not BTC so I have no choice.

Unfortunately the tax respective onlookers will not be the market movers anymore, the variables now have drastically increased and the financial value of bitcoin to a true investor has hit a rock hard medium, now investors have to wonder at 300 to 400 a coin is it worth it to reinvest, and as a former forex investor I can tell you they will hold their cash and wait.

Gold has been a trusted fallback for currency traders for decades, and even now high dollar investors are scared and shy from investing in gold. Gold used to hold the same interests as your fundamentals on BTC did, because it was easily purchased and hard to trace, it was an easy way for people to spend cash without "SPENDING" cash. Gold is also something that holds true value and has a real demand, what makes you think BTC is impervious to the effects Gold has been hit with?

[Kprawn]

blah blah
summarised tax year yend september

Its what i like to call the Dell Dump. What is the Dell Dump? The Dell Dump is is the name I gave the situation where all companies involved in accepting bitcoin dump their coins for fiat.

you have no clue.

you realise that on the main exchanges its not taking 13million coins(total circulation), its not taking 800k coins(rough hoard mtgox stole), its not taking 3600 coins (a days mining reward), it is only taking less then 500 coins to control the market price.

check out btc-e which most panicking sheeple use.. there is alot of dust and only walls of maybe 200coins causing a wall to stop the price rise.

now then lets move onto Dell and miners selling off:
most of these trades are NOT even done on exchanges. for instance 'overstock' hoards EVERY bitcoin. also dell does not do millions of dollars a day in bitcoin transactions, they do not do hundreds of thousands a day. its only a few coins a day.

so with that please understand that the exchange rates on the markets are only a true measure of a couple hundred coins, maximum of 500 coins at any one point.. NOT 13million coins.

you will see that more is being bought and sold via localbitcoins privately from hoards that dont touch exchanges. and also bitpay using private investment amounts which again are not ever touching an exchange. and non of these coins are taken into consideration when doing TRUE bitcoin valuations

the amount of average joe buyers do not want to put their bank account details on exchanges as their bank accounts get slammed and shutdown by their banks decision makers. exchanges like bitstamp/coinbase/btc-e DO NOT have customers doing large buys of $10k (22btc) simply because of all of these bank flags, and AML rules.

but once september is over and the truly smart people have sorted out their tax year and begin buying back in when october arrives, the bitcoin sellers that are selling privately will run out of coins to sell and they will grab a crap load from exchanges to continue to feed the private traders that do not want to touch exchanges personally/directly.

quick explanation of tax:
october 2013: imagine someone invested $2k(btc=$100 = 20btc)
september 2014: imagine bitcoin was their only income (20btc =$9000 this month) so buy cashing out every bitcoin they would be on the 0%-10% ta bracket (dependant on countries tax law) because their income is below poverty line and they have only made $7k profit(true income).
october 2014: imagine they put that $9k back in (making them initially minus $9k taxable) so even if bitcoin went upto $800 a coin their 20btc would be $16k, or put simply $7k profit. meaning they would be only taxed on $7k in 2015 (which in alot of countries is 0% due to income/profit being under $10k).

so alot of smart people cash out before the year end to maximum the next financial year end. this is due to the fact that if in october 2013 they put in that $2k and left it as bitcoin in 2014 and then cashed out in 2015, that $2k would become $16k meaning $14k profit in 2015 which means they WOULD pay tax..

so again smart people cash out at the end of the tax year and then buy in to maximise the 0% tax thresholds.

as for miners:
if they were really smart, instead of turning off mining completely they would be moving to altcoins simply to mine for a small profit to then swap for BTC meaning buying bitcoin.. which will eat up the sell wall

so just you wait.. you have not seen anything yet and you seem to be the kind of person that bases your investments on emotion rather than proper information, facts and statistics.

please add more statistics and facts, and research, do not rely on opinion and emotion. bitcoin is not dead, it is just preparing for the next leap.

use this oppertunity in sepember to buy in whil its cheap. or just like the cry babies of last year that missed out on september 2013's $70 bitcoin.. alot of you will be crying at christmas when you look back and say you wish you bought in at $450.

and if you are going to rebuttle that last christmas was a hype. you are correct. based on mining costs and true market valuation christmas last year should have been at$250-$350, not $1200.... this year i can see christmas not being $10k a coin, not being $5k a coin. but very very near $1k a coin based on statistics, not hype

I have never even considered this and it makes perfect sense, now that you explain it, in this way.

Let's hope, this does happen, and we see a record high BTC price in December.

[arbitrage001]

Is it just me or does it seem like the bitcoin "craze" has died down a lot? Not as much people active in talking about it, and especially in other forums for altcoins, there used to be a lot of buzz and excitement but not any more it seems

The crashed from peaked has burned a lot of people out. All my family members and friends have pretty negative view on bitcoin.

[OrientA]

Is it just me or does it seem like the bitcoin "craze" has died down a lot? Not as much people active in talking about it, and especially in other forums for altcoins, there used to be a lot of buzz and excitement but not any more it seems

The crashed from peaked has burned a lot of people out. All my family members and friends have pretty negative view on bitcoin.

I am glad you are still around/posting.

[messibtc]

We are under $439, it's depressing... I am one of the burned investors.

[OrientA]

We are under $439, it's depressing... I am one of the burned investors.

So am I.

[ChuckBuck]

Depends, if you started investing in Bitcoin of December of 2013. 

If you did, then there's nothing you can do about the price. 

Selling for a loss doesn't make a sense.  Selling also lowers the price further.

Only thing you can do is wait it out, or do what I'm about to do....BUY SOME MORE!   

[Minerjoe]

Well burned investors are only idiots who get caught into this whales game. As soon as the price takes a dip, panic kicks in and idiots start selling just to cry later how they lost their money.

It is very easy not to get burned, DO NOT SELL!!! Revolutionary technology like this one will survive. When everybody figure that out, the price ll go back up. How many times so far have we seen these period of decline and how many times people got burned. At least 10x in the last 2 years. People ll just never learn.

[franky1]

I do have a clue, I was a profitable forex trader long before I got into crypto.

blah blah waffle waffle

what you need to realise is that last year people were not constrained to 20 bitcoin deposit/withdrawals.. last year there were whales with 500-20,000 coins each. and there was higher daily volume.. even i was playing with thousands of coins last year. i still have the coins but no way will i throw them on an exchange. nor will other smart people

this year the AML/KYC are inhibiting the exchange rate of the visable exchanges, and people are now private trading. so the problem is NOT usage or demand/supply.. the problem is that your basing the price of 13million coins, based on transactions that amount to at most 200 coins at a time, and most of the time well below 2btc.

its got nothing to do with no one wants bitcoin. its just that no one wants to buy bitcoin from an exchange that has AML/KYC crap. PLEASE take that into account. people are still grabbing bitcoin, more so than last year, they just no doing it on exchanges directly.
again localbitcoins, bitcoin-otc, bitcoin ATM's, bitcoin meetups, private investments. are the new methods of getting bitcoin.. NOT exchanges.

compared to last year bitcoin has a 300% increase in its usability, but in actual fact it has alot more due to the fact that some of these new businesses are actually BIG corporations rather than just 'mom and pop' stores. so the effective usability of bitcoin has a 'feel' in comparitive to 1000%.

and like i said, these large corporations are not cashing out to fiat in large amounts. that is your opinion.

and as for being a forex trader, even you have seen that there are certain times of year where forex trades plato, and certain times when forex trading becomes active.

[Kprawn]

Franky1 - Are there exchanges that do not have these AML/KYC crap? And if there are, would their trades be incorporated in, determining the BTC price?

The reason, why I stayed away from using, alternative methods of buying BTC was the inherent higher risk of being scammed.

After the MtGox fiasco, I am even hesitant to buy from exchange's too. {So it's mostly ATM's and then directly to cold storage for me}

Very interresting discussion, thanks for your inputs. I am quoting this discussion on another platform too, to start this debate.

[Seldar]

1. BTC is too slow - ordinary folk are not interested in waiting any longer than their debit card takes. They expect and demand a faster technology, not a slower one.

Have you ever paid something with BTC with bitpay, coinbase...? I don't think so, it's immediate...

3. The BTC economy now is NOT as Satoshi intended. He intended millions of individual CPU's to do the mining, not a few factories of ASICs. Why is this important? Because a small number of groups have cornered mining and have manipulated the price to astronomic levels. Now that the difficulty is getting higher, and the Chinese have stepped in, these groups now have to sell as they mine to cover their costs - so the manipulation is undermined - and voila, the price drops.

Do you really think Satoshi is a moron? I've read somewhere that he was aware of the mining cost and it's concentration.

5. The media (MSM) have correctly identified BTC as a threat to government power. As the slaves to the elite political class that they are, they have jumped all over the Mt Gox disaster and deliberately terrified the population. Ordinary people are now SCARED to use BTC, thanks to these manipulative MSM bastards.

7. Many governments are going to squash BTC under their heels (using state laws) under the fake reasoning of combating terrorism/gangsters. (The real reason is that cryptos would hemorrhage power from governments).

That's good points and I agree with you.
To my mind, it's the biggest problem that bitcoin will have to face : governments.

[Jamie_Boulder]

Nope, just carrying along..hopefully starting to stabilize...

[LitcoinCollector]

Great price to buy some more!

[OrientA]

Great price to buy some more!

Only if I still have some cash.

[Meuh6879]

We are under $439, it's depressing... I am one of the burned investors.

  and six month later ... 800 USD 

[DannyHamilton]

1. BTC is too slow - ordinary folk are not interested in waiting any longer than their debit card takes. They expect and demand a faster technology, not a slower one.

I've never had a bitcoin transaction take me longer than a credit card.  I think you are mistaken.

2. The general population is completely oblivious to the fact that the central banks/governments are fleecing them. It's simply too complicated a swindle for them to realise what's going on. The schmucks.

True, but bitcoin provides some significant benefits for both merchants and consumers.  In the end, those tangible and valued benefits are what will drive adoption, not some altruistic idealism.

3. The BTC economy now is NOT as Satoshi intended. He intended millions of individual CPU's to do the mining

You are mistaken. While he may (or may not) have understood the likelihood of GPU, FPGA, and ASIC mining, he certainly understood the likelihood of large scale mining operations.

See these quotes from Satoshi:

- snip -
most users should start running client-only software and only the specialist server farms keep running full network nodes
- snip -

- snip -
Bitcoin generation should end up where it's cheapest.
- snip -

Some places where generation will gravitate to:
1) places where it's cheapest or free
- snip -

- snip -
Pool operators can modify their getwork to take one additional parameter, the address to send your share to.
- snip -
New users wouldn't really even need the Bitcoin software.  They could download a miner, create an account on mtgox or mybitcoin, enter their deposit address into the miner and point it at anyone's pool server.  When the miner says it found something, a while later a few coins show up in their account.
- snip -

4. The much-anticipated remittance opportunity is a dead duck at the moment - it can only work P2P if there is an easy way for people to directly spend their BTC after receiving them. Otherwise, the path is Fiat->BTC->Fiat->delivery (all via a third party, and all using conventional laws covering remittances)

Conventional laws and third parties do not make the remittance opportunity a "dead duck".  Regardless, as bitcoin gains usage, the "directly spending" opportunities will increase.  There are already many options to "directly spend" bitcoins, and those opportunities will only increase in the future.

5. The media (MSM) have correctly identified BTC as a threat to government power. As the slaves to the elite political class that they are, they have jumped all over the Mt Gox disaster and deliberately terrified the population. Ordinary people are now SCARED to use BTC, thanks to these manipulative MSM bastards.

There once was a time when the only source of information about current events that people had available to them was what was spoon fed to them from the "mainstream media".

In more modern times, the development of self publishing (social networks, blogs, vlogs, desktop publishing, etc) has resulted in people turning to multiple non-mainstream sources for their information.

6. The big investors - The City, Wall st - they are not fucking interested.

They appear to be beginning to develop some interest.  Old, fiscally conservative, institutions are slow to adjust to new paradigms, but they always do eventually.

They can see that cryptos are fully transparent - that's the last thing these criminals want.

Cryptos are not fully transparent.  There are many opportunities for obfuscation.  MtGox taught that lesson to many people.

7. Many governments are going to squash BTC under their heels (using state laws) under the fake reasoning of combating terrorism/gangsters. (The real reason is that cryptos would hemorrhage power from governments).

Sure.  Just like they squashed alchohol, drugs, violent crime, organized crime, and terrorism. I'll believe that they can be successful at that when I see it.

All in all, the picture looks very bleak to me.

And quite rosy to me.

Most of the rise in BTC was due to enthusiastic investors, not enthusiastic users.

Perhaps.  Perhaps not.  I'm not sure that it matters either way.  There clearly are users, and the number of users (as well as the opportunities for use) appear to be continuously increasing.

Now I believe there is going to be a prolonged decline in price.

Perhaps.  Perhaps not.  I'm not sure that it matters either way.  Bitcoin is just as useful at $0.01 per bitcoin as it is at $10,000 per bitcoin.

And I think a different cryptocurrency will eventually take hold.

I don't see any reason for that to happen.  It seems highly unlikely to me.  Can you explain why you think that way, or is it just something that you hope will happen?

Eventually, there will come a breakout crypto, and it won't be BTC. So place your bets, Ladies and Gentlemen...

I have.  I'm pretty certain that Bitcoin IS the breakout crypto.

[OrientA]

We are under $439, it's depressing... I am one of the burned investors.

  and six month later ... 800 USD 

More like $1200.

[Campsis]

429$ is really bad, it should be 600$ at least.

[BreadJoint]

429$ is really bad, it should be 600$ at least.

damn miners dump 3600 BTC a day (1.5M bucks). No wonder price drops

[Campsis]

429$ is really bad, it should be 600$ at least.

damn miners dump 3600 BTC a day (1.5M bucks). No wonder price drops

I think this is a good time to sell, because BTC might go back to 100-200$'s

[ifyousmell]

429$ is really bad, it should be 600$ at least.

damn miners dump 3600 BTC a day (1.5M bucks). No wonder price drops

and more acceptance in bitcoin by merchants that straights away dumps them to market for fiat.
no wonder the price reflects it.

[BreadJoint]

429$ is really bad, it should be 600$ at least.

damn miners dump 3600 BTC a day (1.5M bucks). No wonder price drops

I think this is a good time to sell, because BTC might go back to 100-200$'s

I'm not talking about this particular time. Its just POW doesn't alow BTC to grow since bitcoin market bleeds for 1.5M bucks a day

[Campsis]

429$ is really bad, it should be 600$ at least.

damn miners dump 3600 BTC a day (1.5M bucks). No wonder price drops

I think this is a good time to sell, because BTC might go back to 100-200$'s

I'm not talking about this particular time. Its just POW doesn't alow BTC to grow since bitcoin market bleeds for 1.5M bucks a day

But why are they crashing the market, are they idiots.
Fuck it i'm not selling my btc unless it hits 900$

[crazyivan]

Well obviously there a lot of idiots who still sell and intentionally lose money. Guess this is the best way to weed out morons from serious investors.

[OrientA]

429$ is really bad, it should be 600$ at least.

damn miners dump 3600 BTC a day (1.5M bucks). No wonder price drops

I think this is a good time to sell, because BTC might go back to 100-200$'s

I'm not talking about this particular time. Its just POW doesn't alow BTC to grow since bitcoin market bleeds for 1.5M bucks a day

But why are they crashing the market, are they idiots.
Fuck it i'm not selling my btc unless it hits 900$

These miners have bill to pay, such as electricity, loan to buy the equipment. So they have to sell whatever the price.

[coinzcoinzcoinz]

Bitcoin is ancient technology. It is like the Napster of crypto. Innovation in the altcoin world will eventually kill Bitcoin, just like Kazaa, Audiogalaxy and BitTorrent killed Napster. Bitcoin is not moving forward at all from a technical perspective. People who think that adoption is everything are wrong. Innovation > adoption... eventually.

I give BitCoin a few more months, then we will see the likes of DarkCoin, PeerCoin, NextCoin and XCurrency take over.

[DannyHamilton]

- snip -
Innovation in the altcoin world will eventually kill Bitcoin,
- snip -
I give BitCoin a few more months, then we will see the likes of DarkCoin, PeerCoin, NextCoin and XCurrency take over.

None of which have any real innovation over bitcoin?

I agree that if any altcoin ever implements any real innovation that bitcoin does not adopt, it will become a threat to bitcoin.  However, I'm not yet aware of any real innovation in any fully implemented altcoins, and I'm not convinced that bitcoin will fail to adopt any real innovations.

[franky1]

anyone shouting that prices will drop to $70-$200, if they truly feel that bitcoins only has that value. then i know hundreds of people that will happily buy your coins for your quoted low price right now.

if you are not willing to sell for that low price. then shut up and realize that apart from whales dumping at a loss right now you and thousands of others obviously value your bitcoins at a higher price and will refuse to sell at such low prices.

so either sell low now or shut up and realize that you are part of the resistance point trying to keep prices up by not selling at a loss.

and to anyone thinking bitcoins are useless, hand them over as you obviously think they are meaningless and dont value your coin at any price.

with that said, do you skeptics now realize that bitcoins are not worth such little valuations as you have quoted?!?

[CoinHoarder]

- snip -
Innovation in the altcoin world will eventually kill Bitcoin,
- snip -
I give BitCoin a few more months, then we will see the likes of DarkCoin, PeerCoin, NextCoin and XCurrency take over.

None of which have any real innovation over bitcoin?

I agree that if any altcoin ever implements any real innovation that bitcoin does not adopt, it will become a threat to bitcoin.  However, I'm not yet aware of any real innovation in any fully implemented altcoins, and I'm not convinced that bitcoin will fail to adopt any real innovations.

I agree coinz's statement was comical regarding giving Bitcoin a few more months, but I agree with the rest of his statement.

Also, Denny... you are looking at Alt coins with rose shaded glasses if you don't see any innovation. Either that or you aren't looking at all. I bet you're going to say it's all gimmicks huh? Lol

That being said, I think Bitcoin is dying a slow death. The development is too stagnate and some alt coins are 100x better than Bitcoin. The network effect and infrastructure are the only thing keeping Bitcoin ahead, and that advantage will wear off soon. Bitcoiners and Bitcoin developers are too scared of change... they are set in their ways and many Alt coins are better already on a technical and feature set level. It will have several pumps before it kicks the can though.

[toinew]

stop feeding the miners and consider feeding the developer team.
if you want a good coin, stop thinking about its price, think about how it works

technically, bitcoin is a good coin, but still has some flaws.
for exemple: electricity consumption and limited transaction number

[OrientA]

stop feeding the miners and consider feeding the developer team.
if you want a good coin, stop thinking about its price, think about how it works

How do we stop feeding the miners?

[DannyHamilton]

Also, Danny... you are looking at Alt coins with rose shaded glasses if you don't see any innovation.

Example of an altcoin with real innovation and what that innovation is?

That being said, I think Bitcoin is dying a slow death.

And I see increased adoption.  I suppose time will tell which of us is correct.  Lets agree to return to this thread in 3 years and see which of us is wearing "rose colored glasses".  

The development is too stagnate

It is better to move slowly and carefully when you are protecting the wealth of millions than to rush into modifications without careful consideration that could destroy faith in the security and reliability.

and some alt coins are 100x better than Bitcoin.

An example of an altcoin that is 100x better and exactly what about it makes it 100x better?

[BreadJoint]

Also, Danny... you are looking at Alt coins with rose shaded glasses if you don't see any innovation.

Example of an altcoin with real innovation and what that innovation is?

That being said, I think Bitcoin is dying a slow death.

And I see increased adoption.  I suppose time will tell which of us is correct.  Lets agree to return to this thread in 3 years and see which of us is wearing "rose colored glasses".  

The development is too stagnate

It is better to move slowly and carefully when you are protecting the wealth of millions than to rush into modifications without careful consideration that could destroy faith in the security and reliability.

and some alt coins are 100x better than Bitcoin.

An example of an altcoin that is 100x better and exactly what about it makes it 100x better?

the true innovation is POS. Every altcoin has limited POW time after which POS starts. With POS you don't have to feed greedy miners, only coin holders can receive addtional coins for finding blocks. While it costs nothing to generate blocks through POS the interest rate may be much much lower then 25 coins per block. Reward per block many be 1000 times lower and people will still keep their wallets online and generate new blocks. And hold instead of dumping right away

[CoinHoarder]

Also, Danny... you are looking at Alt coins with rose shaded glasses if you don't see any innovation.

Example of an altcoin with real innovation and what that innovation is?

That being said, I think Bitcoin is dying a slow death.

And I see increased adoption.  I suppose time will tell which of us is correct.  Lets agree to return to this thread in 3 years and see which of us is wearing "rose colored glasses".  

The development is too stagnate

It is better to move slowly and carefully when you are protecting the wealth of millions than to rush into modifications without careful consideration that could destroy faith in the security and reliability.

and some alt coins are 100x better than Bitcoin.

An example of an altcoin that is 100x better and exactly what about it makes it 100x better?

Real innovation is coins like Bitshares, Nxt, Zerocoin, etc.. too many to list.

3 years? I said it still has a few pums in it. Which could take longer than 3 years, especially considering there may not even be a pump this year seeing as I though the market is so bearish.

Yea.. They are careful, too careful. These newer alt coins don't need to be as careful as Bitcoin. That is going to hold it back from improving upon itself. This is the same excuse (lol) Litecoin uses regarding making changes and they are worth a fraction of your market cap. It is not the extreme want to protect funds, but it is a mindset that nothing needs to be changed and everything is a gimmick or scam coin no matter how innovative.

Re 100x... Have you ever heard of an exaggeration? There are a lot of coins that are better though... More features, block times in the seconds, a snazzier wallet, doesn't waste a ton of electricity and processing power like Bitcoin, more anonymous, etc.... Bitcoin looks like a fossil when you take that all into account. Again, the network effect and infrastructure is the only thing propping Bitcoin up.

[Lauda]

the true innovation is POS. Every altcoin has limited POW time after which POS starts. With POS you don't have to feed greedy miners, only coin holders can receive addtional coins for finding blocks. While it costs nothing to generate blocks through POS the interest rate may be much much lower then 25 coins per block. Reward per block many be 1000 times lower and people will still keep their wallets online and generate new blocks. And hold instead of dumping right away

Your knowledge is lacking or non existent. Nothing about POS can be connected to the word innovation.
POS is actually bad. Do proper research around the forum.
Also miners not being able to dump =/= innovation. POS is only energy efficient, that's it.

Update: to post above:

Bitshares, Nxt, Zerocoin, etc.. too many to list.

No, no, not coded yet (?).

[DannyHamilton]

the true innovation is POS.

POS has been well established to be a reduction in security in exchange for a reduction in energy use as compared to POW.  Personally, when it comes to the protection of wealth, I feel that increased security is important.

Every altcoin has limited POW time after which POS starts.

Every altcoin?  I didn't think litecoin implemented POS?  When did that happen?

With POS you don't have to feed greedy miners, only coin holders can receive addtional coins for finding blocks.

So you trade feeding greedy miners for feeding greedy hoarders?  And in exchange you reduce your security model?  No thanks.

While it costs nothing to generate blocks through POS the interest rate may be much much lower then 25 coins per block.

Costs nothing to generate blocks, and therefore costs nothing to attack the network.

Reward per block many be 1000 times lower and people will still keep their wallets online and generate new blocks.

Lower reward is neither an improvement nor a deficiency.  It's just different.  There is nothing intrinsically "better" about receiving more (or less) units of a cryptocurrency as a block reward.

And hold instead of dumping right away

Those that need or want local fiat currency will dump right away regardless of the method that they receive it.

[CoinHoarder]

Bitshares, Nxt, Zerocoin, etc.. too many to list.

No, no, not coded yet (?).

Rose tinted glasses...

[kokojie]

429$ is really bad, it should be 600$ at least.

damn miners dump 3600 BTC a day (1.5M bucks). No wonder price drops

I think this is a good time to sell, because BTC might go back to 100-200$'s

I'm not talking about this particular time. Its just POW doesn't alow BTC to grow since bitcoin market bleeds for 1.5M bucks a day

This here, is the reason why Bitcoin price is dropping. Because without new inflow of capital, the $1.5M daily PoW expense will drop the price, perpetually. Only having a capital inflow greater than $1.5M per day, will stop the price drop. We have had big capital inflow last year, and price rose. Now the capital inflow stopped, and price is dropping.

This $1.5M daily PoW expense is unnecessary, since much of the coin supply has been distributed. Time to fade out PoW and embrace the energy efficient PoS system.

[Oldiesel]

Bitcoin is going to crash, big time.

[DannyHamilton]

An example of an altcoin that is . . . better and exactly what about it makes it . . .] better?

Real innovation is coins like Bitshares, Nxt, Zerocoin, etc.. too many to list.

So, no examples of what exactly makes any of these "better"?

3 years? I said it still has a few pums in it. Which could take longer than 3 years, especially considering there may not even be a pump this year seeing as I though the market is so bearish.

Well, if you are trying to predict the future of technology more than 3 years in the future, you either own a time machine or just have delusions of grandeur.

Yea.. They are careful, too careful. These newer alt coins don't need to be as careful as Bitcoin.

They do if they want to be taken seriously and want to protect the value held by their users.

That is going to hold it back from improving upon itself.

IMHO, it's going to hold it back from destroying itself.  I guess we'll see eventually.

This is the same excuse (lol) Litecoin uses regarding making changes and they are worth a fraction of your market cap.

Litecoin?  That's another altcoin, right?  What does their "market cap" have to do with anything?  Market cap isn't even a term that makes sense when talking about currencies.  What is the "Market Cap" of the Euro?  How about the Peso?

It is not the extreme want to protect funds, but it is a mindset that nothing needs to be changed and everything is a gimmick or scam coin no matter how innovative.

Fortunately there is much discussion in the bitcoin community about things that need to be changed and careful consideration about modifications before declaring them "innovative".

Re 100x... Have you ever heard of an exaggeration?

Yes, and I'm pretty sure that your liberal use of exaggeration is a way to try to add emphasis and importance to things that you think should be important even if they aren't.

There are a lot of coins that are better though...

Better?  I'm not aware of any.

More features,

More features doesn't mean better features.  More features can also mean worse features.

block times in the seconds,

There is nothing innovative about changing a block time.  Block times can be fractions of a second or can be hours or days.  Without an explanation about exactly why a particular blocktime has merits (and careful consideration about the drawbacks of a particular blocktime) it is impossible to say whether a given blocktime is better, worse, or neutral.  Block times that are too short lead to increased orphaned blocks, longer orphaned chains, less stable mining revenue, and decreased security.

a snazzier wallet,

Putting lipstick on a pig doesn't turn it into something beautiful.

doesn't waste a ton of electricity and processing power like Bitcoin,

I don't see the maintaining of a global financial currency and payment system as a "waste". Are there solutions that provide equivalent security with reduced resource usage?

more anonymous, etc....

Bitcoin allows users to be as anonymous as they want, or as public as they want.  Complete anonymity is possible with bitcoin if a user desires it. While some altcoins *might* make this anonymity a bit easier, it is always possible to destroy one's anonymity with carelessness.

Bitcoin looks like a fossil when you take that all into account.

No.  Altcoins look like a scam when you take all that into account.

Again, the network effect and infrastructure is the only thing propping Bitcoin up.

Even if that were true (and I still haven't seen any convincing evidence that it is), that network effect and infrastructure will be very difficult for anything else to overcome.  Something that is "just a bit" better, won't be able to overcome the foothold that bitcoin already has.  It will require something truly innovative and revolutionary.

[CoinHoarder]

Was your goal to add so many quotes it makes it take me too long to reply, so maybe I won't? If so, you succeeded (I am on iPad.) Congrats. That is the literal definition of nitpicking. Most of your arguments are weak at best, and you certainly do see things through rose tinted glasses. I will leave it at that because I know you will sit here and argue with me all day even if I am right.

[Lauda]

Bitshares, Nxt, Zerocoin, etc.. too many to list.

No, no, not coded yet (?).

Rose tinted glasses...

You should take another look. I can't find the right link right now, but no coin without a specific method of distribution will succeed/surpass Bitcoin.
Some older member has been linking in frequently in the past few weeks.
Also no, he often posts like that.
P.S. You using an iPad explains it all.  

A good part of his post:

Code:

Quote from: CoinHoarder on Today at 06:29:01 PM
This is the same excuse (lol) Litecoin uses regarding making changes and they are worth a fraction of your market cap.
___________
Litecoin?  That's another altcoin, right?  What does their "market cap" have to do with anything?  Market cap isn't even a term that makes sense when talking about currencies.  What is the "Market Cap" of the Euro?  How about the Peso?

[franky1]

POS is not as secure
POS does not spread wealth, it simply makes those that hoard coins richer.

POS is only good for exchanges and the pre-mined coin creators, not average joe.

exchanges are taking fat slices of the POS pie because most people are putting their coins into exchanges cold stores lol it makes me laugh how people blindly believe a altcoin creators story of fairness while they secretly are making the profit and leaving sheeple holding the altcoin bag of crap

[CoinHoarder]

Bitshares, Nxt, Zerocoin, etc.. too many to list.

No, no, not coded yet (?).

Rose tinted glasses...

You should take another look. I can't find the right link right now, but no coin without a specific method of distribution will succeed/surpass Bitcoin.
Some older member has been linking in frequently in the past few weeks.
Also no, he often posts like that.
P.S. You using an iPad explains it all.  

A good part of his post:

Code:

Quote from: CoinHoarder on Today at 06:29:01 PM
This is the same excuse (lol) Litecoin uses regarding making changes and they are worth a fraction of your market cap.
___________
Litecoin?  That's another altcoin, right?  What does their "market cap" have to do with anything?  Market cap isn't even a term that makes sense when talking about currencies.  What is the "Market Cap" of the Euro?  How about the Peso?

Ya cause Bitcoin is distributed so evenly....

Now because I am on an iPad all my statements are invalid? Lol.. If you must know, my laptop recently died, either way that is a weak argument. A lot of people like Apple products.

My reason for bringing up Litecoin is because they share the mindset of most Bitcoiners.. all innovations are unneeded gimmicks, PoW is the only answer, their coin is fine just the way it is, etc.

[DannyHamilton]

Was your goal to add so many quotes it makes it take me too long to reply, so maybe I won't? If so, you succeeded (I am on iPad.)

No. My goal was to respond to each of your many points specifically and directly so that there wouldn't be any confusion amongst those reading the thread what was being discussed and responded to.

Congrats. That is the literal definition of nitpicking.

nitpicking: "looking for small or unimportant errors or faults, especially in order to criticize unnecessarily"

You may find your errors or faults to be small or uninmportant.  Personally, I find that they are a direct indication of the reliability of your opinion.

Most of your arguments are weak at best,

Weak?  In what way?

and you certainly do see things through rose tinted glasses.

Well, one of us does.  I'll leave it as an exercise to the reader to determine which of us that is.

I will leave it at that because I know you will sit here and argue with me all day even if I am right.

Argue?  That's such a strong word.  I prefer to see it as discussion.  Or at most perhaps intelligent and considered debate. I *might* be willing to continue the descussion if you can establish that you are "right", but the fact that I'm engaging in discussion doesn't by its nature make you "right" or "wrong".  At this point, I've received nothing but platitudes and vague assertions based on your desire for altcoins to be "better".

[kokojie]

POS is not as secure
POS does not spread wealth, it simply makes those that hoard coins richer.

POS is only good for exchanges and the pre-mined coin creators, not average joe.

exchanges are taking fat slices of the POS pie because most people are putting their coins into exchanges cold stores lol it makes me laugh how people blindly believe a altcoin creators story of fairness while they secretly are making the profit and leaving sheeple holding the altcoin bag of crap

POS is not as secure?
Zero successful 51% attack on any PoS altcoin, while probably hundreds of PoW altcoin has been attacked, even sizable ones like Dogecoin.

POS does not spread wealth, it simply makes those that hoard coins richer?
I don't even know what this means, for example you think 1% annual reward on PoS mining with Peercoin is going to make you rich? the tiny PoS reward is not going to be the sole reason for someone to hoard stake. It's something that is "nice to have" when you already own some stake, and want to help secure the network.

POS is only good for exchanges and the pre-mined coin creators, not average joe?
Even if exchange is minting, they could just distribute the PoS reward to their customers as interest on balance, like BTER already does this. Also, since Bitcoin already distributed most of the coin supply, there's no concern for "pre-mine", is there?

[CoinHoarder]

POS is not as secure
POS does not spread wealth, it simply makes those that hoard coins richer.

POS is only good for exchanges and the pre-mined coin creators, not average joe.

exchanges are taking fat slices of the POS pie because most people are putting their coins into exchanges cold stores lol it makes me laugh how people blindly believe a altcoin creators story of fairness while they secretly are making the profit and leaving sheeple holding the altcoin bag of crap

You guys are stuck on the same old anti-PoS arguments. There are newer and better solutions, DPoS for example. Most of the arguments you use against PoS don't even apply with the newer and better variants of PoS.

Again, lol at saying PoW distributes currency so evenly. Bitcoin is less evenly distributed than FIAT.

Pretty much all of your arguments are invalid with DPoS.

[flipstyle]

6 months ago if you told someone btc was to trend downwards to the 400 mark, they would have gobbled up every single scrap they could to hoard the farm.  Now?  I don't think nearly as many.

IMO, this downward trend does not look good.  It all depends on your outlook timeframe, but for the immediate future, I think BTC is in for some pretty turbulent times.  I think it will be a very long time (if ever) until we ever see the 1000 mark, much less 800.

[SilentJohn]

Long time lurker, first time poster.

There are no developments in Bitcoin that would warrant anyone to say that the craze is dying down. If anything at all, developments have been moving in a positive direction. For one piece of bad news, there are multiple positive developments that are moving Bitcoin forward towards increased market adoption.

I've already bought over 150 BTC since the price moved below 470 (in addition to my already significant stash) and continue to aggressively stagger my purchases as the price moves into further discount territory.

Listen to Franky, he knows what he's talking about.

[virtfund]

Merchants selling. This is the reason the price is going down. As soon as merchants started accepting BTC in large quantities, the price began to go down and now seems to be accelerating downward.

[hascoin]

 I m crazy about bitcoin TOO.       

[drippx]

Meh, this happens every year for the past five years, negative nancys come and say it will go down and we all know what happens next, dont pay any attention to them they were born as negative nancys so next year and every year you should expect them to do the same

[vipgelsi]

Price down but diifficulty going up crazy something has to give here.

[kingscrown]

price going down means more merchants

[BittBurger]

Is it just me or does it seem like the bitcoin "craze" has died down a lot? Not as much people active in talking about it, and especially in other forums for altcoins, there used to be a lot of buzz and excitement but not any more it seems

Start listening to the Bitcoin Podcasts and you'll see the very opposite picture being painted.   Quite a bit going on all over the world.  More than ever.

Stay informed.  Podcasts are the best way to do it these days.

-B-

[carla17]

i don't think so....

[Jacobit]

price going down means more merchants？？？

[OrientA]

price going down means more merchants？？？

If merchants does not hold, just sell the BTC they receive. But the more use, the better for the long term.

[franky1]

due to AMLKYC rules there is less fiat in the exchanges, so there are is not much on the buy orders..

this has nothing to do with no demand for bitcoin, and nothing to do with merchants selling coins. as these trades are done privately away from exchanges.

the simple fact is that we are valuing 13million coins, based on exchanges that have orders of under 200coins on a order line and in 95% of cases under 1 btc on order lines.

yes i said it 3million coins are not on exchanges, most trades and dumps are caused by as little as 150-200btc.. not 2,000, not 200k not 2mill.. just 200btc

will you sheeple stop following other exchanges drops.. arbitrage of bitcoin for FIAT is not straight forward. so why sheep follow prices from china to bitstamp.. you cant move Yuan from btcchina to dollar at bitstamp within the same hour/day.

come october when average joe puts in the $1k-$2k amounts because its a new financial year, you will see alot of people buying coins. but do not blame merchants or large hoarders.

SO STOP BEING SHEEPLE and wake up.

[SilentJohn]

This is like Christmas in September... All in baby

[flyingcatt]

Paypal is in the game fuckers, how is it dying down? lol.

[cyberpinoy]

429$ is really bad, it should be 600$ at least.

damn miners dump 3600 BTC a day (1.5M bucks). No wonder price drops

and more acceptance in bitcoin by merchants that straights away dumps them to market for fiat.
no wonder the price reflects it.

Only small miners who have a lot to worry about dump their coins regularly, Pools and other larger mines dont dump all the coins they make, that would be just stiupid if they did. If I had 2 Phash of mining potential I would solo mine, then expand and begin my own pool, after 6months add another 5 Phash of equipment and begin cloud mining potential for my pool members. and I can promise you with 7 Phash of my own equipment (even if 5Phash is rented out) I would most certainly NOT be dumping my coins daily.

larger mines only dump what they have to. If you have enough mining equipment to bring in 250,000 a month is there a real need to dump them daily ? NO 2500 machines to mine that only cost 60,000 a month in electric thus an additional 50,000 a month living and other expenditures would be plenty the rest are stockpiling for a rainy day.

The real problem is the Dell Dumpers. the merchants who keep dumping coins from their customers. Yes miners do dumpa lot but 3600 a day is very doubtful. they are in this to make the most money they can so dumping more than necessary would not be logical. The merchants tho they have no other choice, they ahve to pay for the products they sell in fiat, they ahve to pay for overhead business costs in fiat and labor in fiat, a 20% profit margin is the best you cn assume from a good online merchant site no matter who you are, so with this you can expect that 80% of the coins (or more) the merchants revolve are being dumped, common BASIC business economics tells us this.

The biggest problem for Bitcoin is there is NO DEMAND, I say it all the time and the blind faith idiots who cant see the truth when it slaps them in the face will realize it when it hits their wallet. No one wants bitcoin, no one has a desire to invest in bitcoin, that craze is long over, and without anything of real importance Bitcoin is attracting nothing. We need merchants sites that can sell products cheaper by using bitcoin, or a place to buy something no one else has but everyone needs and you can only buy it with bitcoin. WE NEED A DEMAND.

As i stated before in this thread the price is dropping rapidly and it has nothing to do with tax conscious investors, at this point the drop to 450 was the usual bi-weekly Dell Dump ( for the definition of Dell Dump scroll up I think page 2,3 or 4 I have it defined) once the price hit 430 the skeptics got out, at420 all the ones holding on to a failed dream took a loss we hnow sit at 400 and as I said by the end of the yearit will be under 200,

1200 dollars a coin, you will be lucky to see 600 a coin again and I dont care how you feel about whathas happened the past 5 years, until a demand is made for this coin it will be stuck at 300 to 400 Highs and 150  lows, once this sets in you will begin loosing miners, and when they go bigger dumps happen with their exit, they will dumpwhat they are holding take the profits they can and get out while the getting is good.

[googlemaster1]

429$ is really bad, it should be 600$ at least.

damn miners dump 3600 BTC a day (1.5M bucks). No wonder price drops

and more acceptance in bitcoin by merchants that straights away dumps them to market for fiat.
no wonder the price reflects it.

Only small miners who have a lot to worry about dump their coins regularly, Pools and other larger mines dont dump all the coins they make, that would be just stiupid if they did. If I had 2 Phash of mining potential I would solo mine, then expand and begin my own pool, after 6months add another 5 Phash of equipment and begin cloud mining potential for my pool members. and I can promise you with 7 Phash of my own equipment (even if 5Phash is rented out) I would most certainly NOT be dumping my coins daily.

larger mines only dump what they have to. If you have enough mining equipment to bring in 250,000 a month is there a real need to dump them daily ? NO 2500 machines to mine that only cost 60,000 a month in electric thus an additional 50,000 a month living and other expenditures would be plenty the rest are stockpiling for a rainy day.

The real problem is the Dell Dumpers. the merchants who keep dumping coins from their customers. Yes miners do dumpa lot but 3600 a day is very doubtful. they are in this to make the most money they can so dumping more than necessary would not be logical. The merchants tho they have no other choice, they ahve to pay for the products they sell in fiat, they ahve to pay for overhead business costs in fiat and labor in fiat, a 20% profit margin is the best you cn assume from a good online merchant site no matter who you are, so with this you can expect that 80% of the coins (or more) the merchants revolve are being dumped, common BASIC business economics tells us this.

The biggest problem for Bitcoin is there is NO DEMAND, I say it all the time and the blind faith idiots who cant see the truth when it slaps them in the face will realize it when it hits their wallet. No one wants bitcoin, no one has a desire to invest in bitcoin, that craze is long over, and without anything of real importance Bitcoin is attracting nothing. We need merchants sites that can sell products cheaper by using bitcoin, or a place to buy something no one else has but everyone needs and you can only buy it with bitcoin. WE NEED A DEMAND.

As i stated before in this thread the price is dropping rapidly and it has nothing to do with tax conscious investors, at this point the drop to 450 was the usual bi-weekly Dell Dump ( for the definition of Dell Dump scroll up I think page 2,3 or 4 I have it defined) once the price hit 430 the skeptics got out, at420 all the ones holding on to a failed dream took a loss we hnow sit at 400 and as I said by the end of the yearit will be under 200,

1200 dollars a coin, you will be lucky to see 600 a coin again and I dont care how you feel about whathas happened the past 5 years, until a demand is made for this coin it will be stuck at 300 to 400 Highs and 150  lows, once this sets in you will begin loosing miners, and when they go bigger dumps happen with their exit, they will dumpwhat they are holding take the profits they can and get out while the getting is good.

I like this theory, but larger miners dumping what they have to is often times more than what I have to dump when I mine, which is essentially 0.  Maybe it was BFL this whole time hahah.

[mezmerizer9]

Yes, I've noticed that whole thing about BTC has quieted down since the price of the btc has gone below 600$. When the price got up to 1000$, whole internet was all over it, every post on 4chan was about bitcoin... but now barely few.

[cyberpinoy]

blah blah
summarised tax year yend september

Its what i like to call the Dell Dump. What is the Dell Dump? The Dell Dump is is the name I gave the situation where all companies involved in accepting bitcoin dump their coins for fiat.

but once september is over and the truly smart people have sorted out their tax year and begin buying back in when october arrives, the bitcoin sellers that are selling privately will run out of coins to sell and they will grab a crap load from exchanges to continue to feed the private traders that do not want to touch exchanges personally/directly.

quick explanation of tax:
october 2013: imagine someone invested $2k(btc=$100 = 20btc)
september 2014: imagine bitcoin was their only income (20btc =$9000 this month) so buy cashing out every bitcoin they would be on the 0%-10% ta bracket (dependant on countries tax law) because their income is below poverty line and they have only made $7k profit(true income).
october 2014: imagine they put that $9k back in (making them initially minus $9k taxable) so even if bitcoin went upto $800 a coin their 20btc would be $16k, or put simply $7k profit. meaning they would be only taxed on $7k in 2015 (which in alot of countries is 0% due to income/profit being under $10k).

Disproved

https://coinbase.com/charts

August 2009 BTC value = $0.00
September 2009 BTC value = $0.00
October 2009 BTC value = $0.00

August 2010 BTC value = $0.07
September 2010 BTC value = $0.06
October 2010 BTC value = $0.10

August 2011 BTC value = $10.90
September 2011 BTC value = $5.40
October 2011 BTC value = $3.40

August 2012 BTC value = $10.30
September 2012 BTC value = $11.58
October 2012 BTC value = $10.60

August 2013 BTC value = $113.20
September 2013 BTC value = $128.80
October 2013 BTC value = $133.80

You theory has been disproved 3 out of 5 times so far, for only 2 years of Bitcoin existence was Octobers value higher than September.

For a more honest 12 month fundamental we can see that bitcoin (by basis of true currency fundamentals) is going down down down, the pivot point was this years May 2014 low of 433. We have well surpassed that at 398 yesterday. With the double hammer downwards is the only way this currency should fundamentally go. I stand by my post we will see 90 dollars again by the end of the year, and this time its rebound will be much much MUCH slower than all the "BUBBLE" lovers anticipate. there is NOTHING pushing its price up and everything demolishing the price down. Unless some of these top 10 wallet holders in BTC get off thier ass and come together to formulate a plan to develop a true demand for their investment, those top ten wallets will be worthless by this time next year ranging hack in the cents for Bitcoin.

Why are the banks not scared, because once again they see themselves as the superiors, without even investing a cent, without even trying to manipulate the Bitcoin market, with no collusion they are sitting back watching as we destroy ourselves and laughing the whole time.

Bitcoin hoarders ask yourself if JP Morgan or Goldman Sachs or Barclays thought for one second their financial system was going to fail (or ask when they saw in the past it was going to fail) did they sit on their ass passing telegrams to people pumping the reputation for thier financial system or did they get off their ass and make it so everyone had no choice but to want thier money and accept it?

The crazy thing is in todays world of technology the hoarder can create a demand without exchanging one single bitcoin for fiat. Meaning they can create the tools and the things they need to create the demand without devaluing the coins in any way, all it takes is the brain of a 5 year old and a few hundred bitcoins and Poof the price skyrockets.

The banks are not scared because we as a community are not a true threat, they know we are doing nothing, because at the end of the day the banks know what the BTC community continues to avoid and ignore. In order for any currency to be valuable it needs to have a demand . Supply and demand always are the final rule in any currency's value. The higher the Demand the higher the value, Pure Simple BASIC business economics. And without a demand the banks just laugh at us.

[franky1]

check the charts again!!
oh and just a little hint.. theres no point using coinbase.. they didnt even exist for 2009, 2010, 2011

for instance lets choose a random date... fuck it.. lets choose today the 20th of the month(might aswell use today so that i cant be accused of picking the highest days of the year based on the charts purposefully, or is it too coincidental for you)
2013
september 20th (today a year ago) $122.90
october 20th (one month later, a year ago) $163.06
november 20th 2013 $572.67

ok, again lets not do specifics for 2012 (by picking 2 specific date. lets let the charts talk for themselves)
so between september 1st 2012 - $9.97 and november 1st 2012 - $10.57
you would think average price was $10.25 for october (or in your mind well under $9.97)

guess what day was the highest price between those date.. was it at the start of september?. was it the middle of september? was it the end of september?...

Noooooo it was october 3rd with $12.89

oh and i used the average price chart on coinDESK

so lets get into details of the paragraphs you also wrote..
supply and demand.. ok your a high schooler.. thanks for the hint into your education level.. imagine an iceburg,, ur only seeing the 1% above water not the 99% underwater that truly makes up what the suppy and demand is made of.

lesson 1.
AMLKYC is stopping people buying coins on exchanges.. BUT.. BIG BUT.. it is not stopping demand

lesson 2
while exchanges play around with orders of atmost 200 bitcoins in any one order, PRIVATE trades are dealing with thousands of coins.

lesson 3
you do know that in may this year bitpay converted $30million of fiat into about 60,000 bitcoins without even having to eat a single order on the exchanges..

lesson 4
you do know that alot more FIAT passed hands on localbitcoins, rather then the total deposits of exchanges right

lesson 5
combine that together and you will realise there is still demand happening.. just that no one wants to link their bank accounts to exchanges no more, and you sheeple are still basing prices on these dying exchanges rather then seeing the global picture of bitcoin.

[OrientA]

Banks can incorporate BTC or crypto currency in their business in the future. You can deposit your crypto there and convert to fiat.

[cyberpinoy]

Ok so maybe you didnt likethe averages that were made, the numbers I got was from taking 5 of the same days each month and averaging them together. FYI just because a website did not exist does not mean it could not get accurate information for the months it was not in existance:0 just so you know

lesson 1.
AMLKYC is stopping people buying coins on exchanges.. BUT.. BIG BUT.. it is not stopping demand

There is no demand for bitcoin, do you know what a demand is, let me explain, When China needs to buy something from the USA it creates a demand for USD. because china can not buy what they need without USA local currency.

So tell me what is it that bitcoin sells, has or does that can only be achieved thru the purchase of bitcoin thus creating a demand for bitcoin....... thats right NOTHING. which means the only demand it has is its tradable market which is no real demand at all.

lesson 2
while exchanges play around with orders of atmost 200 bitcoins in any one order, PRIVATE trades are dealing with thousands of coins.

Private trades neither increase nor decrease the value of bitcoins at all. This statement has no effect on the actual value of bitcoin and should be wiped from your mind as useless nonsense. (when used in conjunction of Bitcoins value)

lesson 3
you do know that in may this year bitpay converted $30million of fiat into about 60,000 bitcoins without even having to eat a single order on the exchanges..

And this did what for the value of bitcoin? What kind of demand did this create for the future of bitcoin? Oh I checked it shows in the charts Bitcoin hit one if its lowest marks of the year before being crushed by yesterdays low.Now I see what it did for Bitcoins value......NOTHING

lesson 4
you do know that alot more FIAT passed hands on localbitcoins, rather then the total deposits of exchanges right

You can add localbitcoins to the list of companies I considered in my "Dell Dump" theory thus only strengthening my position.

lesson 5
combine that together and you will realise there is still demand happening.. just that no one wants to link their bank accounts to exchanges no more, and you sheeple are still basing prices on these dying exchanges rather then seeing the global picture of bitcoin.

If you knew anything about currencies and trading you would know the true definition of what a demand is, people buying a currency is not a demand, people having a reason to buy a currency is a demand an even srtonger demand is people HAVING to buy a currency because they have no other choice. Much like Fiat system. if you want something from Australia You must have the AUD if youb want something from China you MUST have CNY if you want something from USA you MUST have USD. What can we buy with only using bitcoins, what does bitcoin have that can only be obtained with bitcoins.....Ahh yes NOTHING.

Thus FINAL LESSON
There is no real "DEMAND" for bitcoin other than its tradable market.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Banks can incorporate BTC or crypto currency in their business in the future. You can deposit your crypto there and convert to fiat.

yesthey could but its not secure enough for a bank they would have to accept the responsibility of securing your Bitcoijns, and since they fear they cant protect them for losses as grand as MtGox suffered its not a chance they want to take, In addition they dont want to embrace their enemy, they run the financial system and they like being the sherrif of fiatingham and dont want any bitcoinhoods interrupting their profitable games of collusion manipulation and profits.

[YoyodyneSystems]

Venture Capitalists have invested 250 million in the last two years into Bitcoin companies.
More and more people are learning about Bitcoin every day.
Even Paypal is ready to accept integration.

The only reason the price drops is because Bitcoin is mined and then dumped by miner's.
If the value of Bitcoin drops below what it's worth to mine them -- maybe they will stop selling them
until the price rises. Thereby reaching an equilibrium.

I am pretty sure I heard that amount is around $350. That is why it seems like the price never goes below that.

[cyberpinoy]

Venture Capitalists have invested 250 million in the last two years into Bitcoin companies.
More and more people are learning about Bitcoin every day.
Even Paypal is ready to accept integration.

The only reason the price drops is because Bitcoin is mined and then dumped by miner's.
If the value of Bitcoin drops below what it's worth to mine them -- maybe they will stop selling them
until the price rises. Thereby reaching an equilibrium.

I am pretty sure I heard that amount is around $350. That is why it seems like the price never goes below that.

As a miner myself with many of mining friends I can tell you this statement is just NOT TRUE. bitcoins price drop is NOT only miners. I know there is 6 pages but please at least read them before you make statements that havebeen disproved 2 or 3 pages ago. dont just jump in and make a blind statement, ESPECIALLY if you are not a full scale miner yourself.

In order to be a full scale miner you must be mining minimum 1 BTC a day. AND not just mine BTC but have a whle system mining for your profits.  I mine script and sha-256, soon i hope to expand my mine to other script coins as well. Once you hit that 1BTC a day income you will see how unsupported and ridiculous your statement is

True hardcore miners only dump what they have to, I myself and many of my mining friends I have only dump what we need to in order to pay our bills which I promise you is not everything we mine. When I first began mining I did dump everything, but .5 BTC a week is not much to dump even if you multiply that 1000 its still only a measly 500 coins a week out of the 25200 that are mined. Miners want exactly what everyone else wants high value on their investment, we are not stupid and all of us understand there is no demand on the coin, and the trigger on its value is its tradable market only, thus why would we cut our nose off to spite our face. we hoard as many as we can your theory would happen when BTC hts 1000 dollars a coin again, one that hits you will see a massive dump. Until then the lower the price goes the more miners have to dump to pay their bills, the higher BTC value the less we have to dump.

If you want us to stop "dumping"then create a demand for the coins we process the transactions for , we are doing our job, now its time the BTC team did theirs.

Dont get to arrogant with the miners remember if not for us your coin will most certainly fail, we are the ones processing your transaction and securing your financial network.

Oh and FYI the ROI on 350 a coin is 6-7 months on the equipment we buy right now at the going prices, we dont like that either, we like a 3 month ROI or less. And since I know you dont know ROI is Return On Investment. means we want to pay our machines off in 3 months or less if we can Now why would we want to do that....... So we can hold the rest until the value increases where we are more comfortable selling but keeping the price above its normal mediums.

[franky1]

cyberpinoy
the exchanges that are doing at most just 200 coins in one order and the other 99.8% of orders are for dust amounts do not truly show value of ALL bitcoins.

smart people (excluding you obviously) do not value bitcoins based on exchange prices. simply because you cannot realy get fiat into your bank account via exchanges without the AMLKYC or your banks flagging you for 'bitcoin use' and killing ur bank account.

AMLKYC is killing exchanges.. not killing bitcoin. again smart people are now ignoring exchange prices just like they ignored mtgox when that sank to $100 at the start of 2014, yet private trading and other exchanges stuck at the $450 which was the resistance point based on the ROI of spring this year

there are more trades done privately rather then on exchanges.. look it up

one reason is coz people cant get dollar into exchanges easily (thus no one is buying on an exchange to support a price rise on exchanges) they are doing it privately. and those private trade prices are ranging right now $450 - $500+

another reason why exchanges are screwed is that most orders are just dust amounts and people cant be arsed playing with dust amounts. EG putting 200btc on an order creates a wall.

another reason is that exchanges has also lost peoples trust. no one wants to put their whole hoards of coins on an exchange like they did in 2012, instead they just play with dust amounts. i personally have thousands of btc, but im currently only playing with between 1btc-10btc depending on my mood, just for fun and giggles. no way will i put my hoard on an exchange

and by the way there is demand for bitcoin..but you can't even see passed your own nose to see it.

one thing you kind of have right though.. ROI.. is now around the $500+ mark. and many miners are refusing to sell at the crap prices of exchanges. so miners are selling at around the $500 privately if they really need to pay for lifestyle stuff in fiat (via private trading) or they are hoarding.
and guess what, buyers are paying those prices

now back to the things ur getting wrong.. demand.
your still thinking like a highschooler.. try expanding your mind set and research
1) investments
2) unbanked
3) blackmarket
4) porn you wont want the wife seing on ur credit card
5) gambling
6) more fun to trade bitcoins than forex/shares/stocks
7) move funds easier and cheaper than western union/paypal/wire transfer

please read my next line, have a cup of coffee, read it again.. sitback, think about it.. and then try your rebuttles.

people are not buying bitcoins on exchanges, not due to lack of demand for BITCOIN!. but due to lack of desire to do it through exchanges. exchanges are dying. not bitcoin.

[cyberpinoy]

franky1 in all your nonsense and rambling you still have not answered my question.

What does bitcoin have, sell or do that nothing else does. what is the true demand for bitcoin.

If I am thinking like a highschooler then you are thinking like a preschooler, and if you do have over 1000 bitcoins why are you not smart enough to put those coins to work for you and create the demand we need. it would take less than 100 of those coins to secure a demand and your investment.

This makes you both blind and stupid franky.

Please get better educated on currency trading and what a demand for a currency is and stop allowing blind stupidity to lead you.

[franky1]

franky1 in all your nonsense and rambling you still have not answered my question.

What does bitcoin have, sell or do that nothing else does. what is the true demand for bitcoin.

If I am thinking like a highschooler then you are thinking like a preschooler, and if you do have over 1000 bitcoins why are you not smart enough to put those coins to work for you and create the demand we need. it would take less than 100 of those coins to secure a demand and your investment.

This makes you both blind and stupid franky.

Please get better educated on currency trading and what a demand for a currency is and stop allowing blind stupidity to lead you.

you do make me laugh, i reply with facts, information and stats, and you reply with questions and insults.

i numbered them out for you, do i need to spoon feed you the more detailed explanation of why the 7 points i listed are better handled with bitcoin than other currencies.

do you not understand anything that when the world has an inflationary currency, people actually want deflationary. do you not understand that when currencies are shutting down bank accounts or taking a 'haircut' from peoples accounts people want something in their 100% control. do you not understand that people want to buy things online that they dont want their spouses or strangers finding out about. do you not understand that investors want to store wealth in something that wont burn under fire or wont get recalled under marshal law. do you not understand taking $10k fiat across a border is automatic seizure and "policing for profit" yet transferring $1mill in bitcoin is instantaneous with no border guards ransacking your car or luggage.

if you think that bitcoin is useless. then please please use your miners and mine your $1 an hours worth of satoshi dust your getting and send it to 'seans outpost' as they will put it to better work and find more value in it then you ever would.

so i have a question for you. if you think its worthless and has no demand.. why are you even on this forum.

and as for using my coins to create a buy wall. i played that game in 2012, it was fun, i made more profit, but then i grew a backbone and realised the bigger picture.

while you cry babies are monitoring exchange prices like a hawk swooping and diving at every movement. i am making more money privately amongst the smarter people, and yes we are ignoring the hourly/daily changes of exchanges, as they are the small time things for the little guys. to be honest the sooner those exchanges die the better

[cyberpinoy]

you do make me laugh, i reply with facts, information and stats, and you reply with questions and insults.

i numbered them out for you, do i need to spoon feed you the more detailed explanation of why the 7 points i listed are better handled with bitcoin than other currencies.

do you not understand anything that when the world has an inflationary currency, people actually want deflationary. do you not understand that when currencies are shutting down bank accounts or taking a 'haircut' from peoples accounts people want something in their 100% control. do you not understand that people want to buy things online that they dont want their spouses or strangers finding out about. do you not understand that investors want to store wealth in something that wont burn under fire or wont get recalled under marshal law. do you not understand taking $10k fiat across a border is automatic seizure and "policing for profit" yet transferring $1mill in bitcoin is instantaneous with no border guards ransacking your car or luggage.

if you think that bitcoin is useless. then please please use your miners and mine your $1 an hours worth of satoshi dust your getting and send it to 'seans outpost' as they will put it to better work and find more value in it then you ever would.

so i have a question for you. if you think its worthless and has no demand.. why are you even on this forum.

and as for using my coins to create a buy wall. i played that game in 2012, it was fun, i made more profit, but then i grew a backbone and realised the bigger picture.

while you cry babies are monitoring exchange prices like a hawk swooping and diving at every movement. i am making more money privately amongst the smarter people, and yes we are ignoring the hourly/daily changes of exchanges, as they are the small time things for the little guys. to be honest the sooner those exchanges die the better

Actually you started with the insults, I compose myself with the respect of other peoples opinions until they resort to insults, then I let loose.

These are not a true demand franky
1) investments   (tradable market hmmm? what have I been saying all along)
2) unbanked       (useless nonsense)
3) blackmarket   (usually only used by criminals so real world application does not apply)
4) porn you wont want the wife seing on ur credit card  (again inferior activities not a demand)
5) gambling        (again inferior activities not a demand)
6) more fun to trade bitcoins than forex/shares/stocks (a complete contradiction to your whole post you said people are not trading on the market but rather person to person)   
7) move funds easier and cheaper than western union/paypal/wire transfer (unless you use places like localbitcoin.com who use western union and wire transfer as a payment method after exchanging)

Your post is not filled with facts its filled with your opinion I was the one starting to throw facts using credible sites with thier stats, you didnt seem to like that either.

The things you deem as a demand are both not a demand and can easily be countered in other ways. Why do you have a need to take 10,000 dollars across the border, theres no reason for that unless you are conducting criminal activities, All the banking crap you mentioned does exist but its not enough to pressure people into trading their USD for Fiat because the risk of loss to exchanges or other places like MTGOX will never go away. People dont want to deal with the bullshit that comes with the banks but its better than loosing everything they have to more criminal people like exchange owners stealing your coins. If you need to buy things online without your spouse knowing about ti franky thats a personal problem it does not create a demand for a currency. My wife knows everything I do online and I am not bothered by that, sounds like you need a new spouse.And lastly "REAL" invewstors are not even in the bitcoin game, to many variables, to many risks, to much to lose.

And do you see how blindly stupid you are, Where did I say to put your coins on the market I said use your coins to create a demand, but you are so blindly stupid in your theories YOU (not me) are the one placing its value in its tradable market, no matter if that market is its exchange, person to person, black market. You do not have enough intelligence to even see how you can make a difference in your investment. I never said for you to create a buy wall franky I said take 100BTC and create a demand,there is a difference and shows you dont understand what a demand is. You instantly connected what I saidb for creating a demand with a buy wall.  That is not what i was talking about at all. You and other "smarter" people like you are EXACTLY why the banks do not fear bitcoin!! and that, franky1, are the facts!! better get all your smarter friends together and get to work creating a true demand, i suggest you get a little better educated first in both currency trading and business economics as you will need both to complete that task!!!

[franky1]

1) trading (im not talking about your PHP and unsecured little poormans exchanges that you watch like a hawk)
2) unbanked, research "mpesa" (multi billion dollar market cap and the onlyway africans can trade due to Zimbabwe dollar crash)
3) black market (multibillion dollar industry)
4) hide transactions from family (you call it inferior get hundreds of thousands of people would like that freedom)
5)gambing (u call it inferior, millions of others call it a billion dollar industry)
6)more fun than forex/stocks/shares (just like point one. im not talking about your PHP coded exchanges you are panicking over)

Why do you have a need to take 10,000 dollars across the border, theres no reason for that unless you are conducting criminal activities,

7) large funds across the border, research "policing for profit" - here one example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGh-7LOzeHw
secondly

because the risk of loss to exchanges or other places like MTGOX will never go away.
better than loosing everything they have to more criminal people like exchange owners stealing your coins.
And lastly "REAL" invewstors are not even in the bitcoin game, to many variables, to many risks, to much to lose.

thank you for proving my point that the crappy PHP coded exchanges your watching like a hawk should die. one day when you get thousands of bitcoins, you too can play at the adults table.

You do not have enough intelligence to even see how you can make a difference in your investment.
i suggest you get a little better educated first in both currency trading and business economics as you will need both to complete that task!!!

you also made a comment how banks dont see bitcoin as an issue. well i guess your blindness missed the lobbying for regulation.. try researching more, i wont spoon feed ya the information. i think the words "lobbying regulation" is enough of a hint for you to google


if only you knew how many bitcoin projects i have running, how many successful bitcoin businesses i have invested in, how many merchants i have helped start up.. then you would know why i am laughing at your comments right now.

keep digging a hole for yourself. the more you post the more your revealing information that proves my points.

[coindetective]

Bitcoin price will recover eventually, these are just temporary alignments.

[inBitweTrust]

2) unbanked       (useless nonsense)
3) blackmarket   (usually only used by criminals so real world application does not apply)
4) porn you wont want the wife seing on ur credit card  (again inferior activities not a demand)
5) gambling        (again inferior activities not a demand)

The Grey and Black markets are currently bigger than the "White market". The fact that you discount the value of Bitcoin in these large and growing sectors speaks volumes to your mindset and agenda.

Bitcoin isn't meant to replace the role or "legal tender"; that has never been its purpose. Bitcoin is sovereign, international, and p2p. There will never be a company or government created crypto-currency fulfilling all the roles bitcoin seeks to fullfill because some of bitcoins roles are focused on creating a trust-less and decentralized ledger that cannot be controlled centrally.

[furlong]

Bitcoin being used by our drug overlords = 1 milion per coin tomorrow.

[toleng]

2) unbanked       (useless nonsense)
3) blackmarket   (usually only used by criminals so real world application does not apply)
4) porn you wont want the wife seing on ur credit card  (again inferior activities not a demand)
5) gambling        (again inferior activities not a demand)

The Grey and Black markets are currently bigger than the "White market". The fact that you discount the value of Bitcoin in these large and growing sectors speaks volumes to your mindset and agenda.

Bitcoin isn't meant to replace the role or "legal tender"; that has never been its purpose. Bitcoin is sovereign, international, and p2p. There will never be a company or government created crypto-currency fulfilling all the roles bitcoin seeks to fullfill because some of bitcoins roles are focused on creating a trust-less and decentralized ledger that cannot be controlled centrally.

You fail to acknowledge that using bitcoin is generally less expensive then using a credit card or other traditional methods of payment. This is where the major demand and use for bitcoin will come from - people who are trying to engage in commerce in a more efficient mannor

[inBitweTrust]

You fail to acknowledge that using bitcoin is generally less expensive then using a credit card or other traditional methods of payment. This is where the major demand and use for bitcoin will come from - people who are trying to engage in commerce in a more efficient mannor

Of course I failed to mentioned all the benefits of Bitcoin... I don't have time to write a book for him.

"Legal Tender" refers strictly to Fiat currency which won't be replaced by bitcoin because bitcoin will never fulfill that role as it cannot by definition. Sure countries may legalize and try and regulate Bitcoin, but they won't give up control of the ability to tax the public indirectly through inflation from overspending, over printing, and quantitative easing.

[cyberpinoy]

2) unbanked       (useless nonsense)
3) blackmarket   (usually only used by criminals so real world application does not apply)
4) porn you wont want the wife seing on ur credit card  (again inferior activities not a demand)
5) gambling        (again inferior activities not a demand)

The Grey and Black markets are currently bigger than the "White market". The fact that you discount the value of Bitcoin in these large and growing sectors speaks volumes to your mindset and agenda.

Bitcoin isn't meant to replace the role or "legal tender"; that has never been its purpose. Bitcoin is sovereign, international, and p2p. There will never be a company or government created crypto-currency fulfilling all the roles bitcoin seeks to fullfill because some of bitcoins roles are focused on creating a trust-less and decentralized ledger that cannot be controlled centrally.

I discount them for 3 reasons, first as bitcoin community has shown us you cant trust anyone, not even the escrow you are using. there is no ability to trust in the black market, its a 50/50 shot of getting ripped off. Altho it was creates a P2P system the theiving P's involved so far outweigh the honest P's. So i will not do not trust the black market.

My second reason is everything I do basis my reward, my income and the value of my coins (even my wallet) on current prices of BTC which does not include the black market.

And lastly a black market is a black market and the only people who usually have a use for a black market are ones conducting business in hopes to keep their actions and identity anonymous. I dont need anonymity I need a higher value in my investment, I need it to be secure, I want a nice business int he future and personally I dont care who knows what I am doing at this point in time. Ask me and I will freely tell you because I have nothing to hide right now.  

The people using the black market hide behind this shroud of "this is how bitcoin was meant to be used" but cant see past their hand in front of their face and see that if the value goes up on the white market, the black market will follow suite. so we are still back to the same people blindly holding the value of BTC down. No matter what market you use,no matter how you exchange the bottom line here is with no demand the coin is valueless, the benefits of the coin are not a demand they are only features of its use.

1) trading (im not talking about your PHP and unsecured little poormans exchanges that you watch like a hawk)
2) unbanked, research "mpesa" (multi billion dollar market cap and the onlyway africans can trade due to Zimbabwe dollar crash)
3) black market (multibillion dollar industry)
4) hide transactions from family (you call it inferior get hundreds of thousands of people would like that freedom)
5)gambing (u call it inferior, millions of others call it a billion dollar industry)
6)more fun than forex/stocks/shares (just like point one. im not talking about your PHP coded exchanges you are panicking over)

Why do you have a need to take 10,000 dollars across the border, theres no reason for that unless you are conducting criminal activities,

7) large funds across the border, research "policing for profit" - here one example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGh-7LOzeHw
secondly

because the risk of loss to exchanges or other places like MTGOX will never go away.
better than loosing everything they have to more criminal people like exchange owners stealing your coins.
And lastly "REAL" invewstors are not even in the bitcoin game, to many variables, to many risks, to much to lose.

thank you for proving my point that the crappy PHP coded exchanges your watching like a hawk should die. one day when you get thousands of bitcoins, you too can play at the adults table.

I watch many exchanges actually, I trade on very few but the value of my coins comes directly from my wallet not my own assessment of the exchanges.

You do not have enough intelligence to even see how you can make a difference in your investment.
i suggest you get a little better educated first in both currency trading and business economics as you will need both to complete that task!!!

you also made a comment how banks dont see bitcoin as an issue. well i guess your blindness missed the lobbying for regulation.. try researching more, i wont spoon feed ya the information. i think the words "lobbying regulation" is enough of a hint for you to google

Actually I read the whole report on what the banks felt about Bitcoin, everything they said in the FEDS regulatory report maybe you should do the same


if only you knew how many bitcoin projects i have running, how many successful bitcoin businesses i have invested in, how many merchants i have helped start up.. then you would know why i am laughing at your comments right now.

talk is cheap actions speak louder than words, what are these projexts you say you are "involved" in. what are you doing to secure the future of BTC for you and all of its investors?

keep digging a hole for yourself. the more you post the more your revealing information that proves my points.

[coindetective]

Lots of new hardware being fired up, look at difficulty. After that they dump coins. However, the market s gonna equalize all of this. I am not worried at all.

[frankenmint]

Lots of new hardware being fired up, look at difficulty. After that they dump coins. However, the market s gonna equalize all of this. I am not worried at all.

yes, cheep cheep coins == exciting!

[l3sny]

cheap coins.... the price will recover sooner rather than later

[dKingston]

I'm so sad, maybe Bitcoins will start going up again on October

[TaunSew]

Miners are dumping $1.5 million a day or $40 million a month (almost half a $billion a year), in addition to all the BTC whales (who forgot about Bitcoin until the news reminded them in late 2013) who are cashing out to buy luxury vehicles and mansions.

So yes Bitcoin is going down for the next while..  this is a bear market..  there will probably be resistance at $150 if we do get that low.

[franky1]

You fail to acknowledge that using bitcoin is generally less expensive then using a credit card or other traditional methods of payment. This is where the major demand and use for bitcoin will come from - people who are trying to engage in commerce in a more efficient mannor

Of course I failed to mentioned all the benefits of Bitcoin... I don't have time to write a book for him.

"Legal Tender" refers strictly to Fiat currency which won't be replaced by bitcoin because bitcoin will never fulfill that role as it cannot by definition. Sure countries may legalize and try and regulate Bitcoin, but they won't give up control of the ability to tax the public indirectly through inflation from overspending, over printing, and quantitative easing.

yet in africa, their Zimbabwe dollar is finito, gone, end of.. now they use 'the peoples money' Mpesa, and the people love it, yes ofcourse there is the 'rand', but ask anyone in africa which they prefer rand or mpesa, they will all prefer to be paid in mpesa.

western world countries have that moment of realization to come, just gotta wait for the pound/euro and dollar crashes

[Velkro]

Its you individual feeling. There are a lot people that discover bitcoin every day. There are discussion about it, new businesses starting etc.
Bitcoin is huge

[niothor]

You fail to acknowledge that using bitcoin is generally less expensive then using a credit card or other traditional methods of payment. This is where the major demand and use for bitcoin will come from - people who are trying to engage in commerce in a more efficient mannor

Of course I failed to mentioned all the benefits of Bitcoin... I don't have time to write a book for him.

"Legal Tender" refers strictly to Fiat currency which won't be replaced by bitcoin because bitcoin will never fulfill that role as it cannot by definition. Sure countries may legalize and try and regulate Bitcoin, but they won't give up control of the ability to tax the public indirectly through inflation from overspending, over printing, and quantitative easing.

yet in africa, their Zimbabwe dollar is finito, gone, end of.. now they use 'the peoples money' Mpesa, and the people love it, yes ofcourse there is the 'rand', but ask anyone in africa which they prefer rand or mpesa, they will all prefer to be paid in mpesa.

western world countries have that moment of realization to come, just gotta wait for the pound/euro and dollar crashes

Paid in mpesa?
Mpesa is a service by the vodafone group , you are being paid via Mpesa in rands.

[inBitweTrust]

I discount them for 3 reasons, first as bitcoin community has shown us you cant trust anyone, not even the escrow you are using. there is no ability to trust in the black market, its a 50/50 shot of getting ripped off. Altho it was creates a P2P system the theiving P's involved so far outweigh the honest P's. So i will not do not trust the black market.

50/50 chance of getting ripped off within the black market? You cannot be serious, can you? Most transactions on the silk road were fair trades before the "white market" stepped in and stole everyone's escrow. Regardless, of the percentages of fraud in the white market vs grey market vs black market, some of us live in reality and your personal feelings towards the "scary black market" have no reflection on the volume of transactions that occur there and will continue to occur there.

Fact: The Black market and grey market are currently larger than the white market worldwide.

FYI: Far less theft happens in the grey market vs the "white market" where the theft has been built into the framework and happens automatically. You have just been brainwashed to ignore this theft.  

My second reason is everything I do basis my reward, my income and the value of my coins (even my wallet) on current prices of BTC which does not include the black market.

Of course the black market and grey markets effect the value of your investment. Any buying pressure effects the value of your coins. I'm beginning to suspect you are a troll because no one can be that daft with basic economics.

And lastly a black market is a black market and the only people who usually have a use for a black market are ones conducting business in hopes to keep their actions and identity anonymous. I dont need anonymity I need a higher value in my investment, I need it to be secure, I want a nice business int he future and personally I dont care who knows what I am doing at this point in time. Ask me and I will freely tell you because I have nothing to hide right now.  

Everyone has something to hide. The NSA now has a database of crimes you committed that you can be retroactively charged for if you step on the wrong shoes.  I almost guarantee you are committing multiple felonies a day if you are an American citizen.

The people using the black market hide behind this shroud of "this is how bitcoin was meant to be used" but cant see past their hand in front of their face and see that if the value goes up on the white market, the black market will follow suite.

Very convenient how you simply fail to mention or rebut the importance of the grey market.

[cyberpinoy]

Very convenient how you simply fail to mention or rebut the importance of the grey market.

The honest end of the day truth is, it does not matter black or grey market, those transaction have no power on the true value of bitcoin. Unless those transactions are registered in the averages of the value of BTC they are not worth noting at all. A lot of people are like me, we see a value in our wallet and that is value we accept. I dont see a value for white market, an 2 others for its value on the black market and grey market, I see one value that is estimated with an average of the places my wallets factors and averages to give me value to BTC in USD. and unfortunately our wallets do not take the black or grey markets in its evaluation.

Sometimes you just have to agree to disagree and I am at this point with people like you and franky1 to try and argue with people who have renounced the use of common sense is like administering medicine to the dead. its a lost cause.

I look at this with an open mind, a mindset that has no bearing on either side, I research charts, i look at what people are doing, I watch what business are doing and I make my assumptions based on all of the situations at hand. I understand the black market but I also know the black and grey markets have no real effect on the values of BTC that most of the people involved and the people we want to get involved care about.

A high dollar investor will not go to the black market hes going to research the best marketplace to trade and buy there, why because its an investment for him and he wants to make money, why buy in a place that his purchasing power has no effect ion the value of the coins he just bought. he would rather buy in a place where his buy in may effect the price and increase it. A true investor is not going to leave his investment in the hands of the black market, he will put what trust he has in what he knows, and thats where his buy in can effect his investment in a positive way.

At this stage of the game that is what bitcoin lovers need High dollar investors because at the end of the day all bitcoin has going for it right now is its tradable market value, without a real demand set in stone Bitcoin lovers must sit back and pray and wait.

[fryarminer]

this time last year bitcoin went from $90 down to $70 and people were shouting that bitcoin craze was dying out.. then as october approached it went above $100, and then up up up.

you want to know why september-october is so important..

think about these three countries
thailand, costa rica, america.. then click this link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiscal_year#Chart_of_various_fiscal_years

if your old enough to actually bother paying tax, then you will know

So this time last year the low was $70.
This year the low is $400
What will the low be at this time next year?

[cbeast]

this time last year bitcoin went from $90 down to $70 and people were shouting that bitcoin craze was dying out.. then as october approached it went above $100, and then up up up.

you want to know why september-october is so important..

think about these three countries
thailand, costa rica, america.. then click this link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiscal_year#Chart_of_various_fiscal_years

if your old enough to actually bother paying tax, then you will know

So this time last year the low was $70.
This year the low is $400
What will the low be at this time next year?

I'm guessing two thousand plus or minus ten percent.

[fryarminer]

I'm guessing two thousand plus or minus ten percent.

That'll be nice - except I wouldn't be able to buy whole bitcoins anymore. I better buy more now!

[snappa4ever]

You fail to acknowledge that using bitcoin is generally less expensive then using a credit card or other traditional methods of payment. This is where the major demand and use for bitcoin will come from - people who are trying to engage in commerce in a more efficient mannor

Of course I failed to mentioned all the benefits of Bitcoin... I don't have time to write a book for him.

"Legal Tender" refers strictly to Fiat currency which won't be replaced by bitcoin because bitcoin will never fulfill that role as it cannot by definition. Sure countries may legalize and try and regulate Bitcoin, but they won't give up control of the ability to tax the public indirectly through inflation from overspending, over printing, and quantitative easing.

yet in africa, their Zimbabwe dollar is finito, gone, end of.. now they use 'the peoples money' Mpesa, and the people love it, yes ofcourse there is the 'rand', but ask anyone in africa which they prefer rand or mpesa, they will all prefer to be paid in mpesa.

western world countries have that moment of realization to come, just gotta wait for the pound/euro and dollar crashes

Paid in mpesa?
Mpesa is a service by the vodafone group , you are being paid via Mpesa in rands.

I would say that since people in africa are used to and are comfortable with spending money with their smartphones (and because an unstable currency is the norm) that the people of africia would be comfortable using and adapting to bitcoin (and spending it via smartphones

[jack_night2]

Is it just me or does it seem like the bitcoin "craze" has died down a lot? Not as much people active in talking about it, and especially in other forums for altcoins, there used to be a lot of buzz and excitement but not any more it seems

Don`t listen to the idiots who just call it a bubble, they are stupid and base their response on hope and not common logic. I don't see any reason for that to happen. It seems highly unlikely to me. Course on the http://mining-profit.com/ suits me perfectly.

[zorke]

this time last year bitcoin went from $90 down to $70 and people were shouting that bitcoin craze was dying out.. then as october approached it went above $100, and then up up up.

you want to know why september-october is so important..

think about these three countries
thailand, costa rica, america.. then click this link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiscal_year#Chart_of_various_fiscal_years

if your old enough to actually bother paying tax, then you will know

So this time last year the low was $70.
This year the low is $400
What will the low be at this time next year?

I'm guessing two thousand plus or minus ten percent.

This is true based on prior experience. However past performance does not guarantee future results. Also eventually the "law of large numbers" will need to kick in to slow the rate at which bitcoin can continue to increase in value

[QuestionAuthority]

this time last year bitcoin went from $90 down to $70 and people were shouting that bitcoin craze was dying out.. then as october approached it went above $100, and then up up up.

you want to know why september-october is so important..

think about these three countries
thailand, costa rica, america.. then click this link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiscal_year#Chart_of_various_fiscal_years

if your old enough to actually bother paying tax, then you will know

So this time last year the low was $70.
This year the low is $400
What will the low be at this time next year?

I'm guessing two thousand plus or minus ten percent.

This is true based on prior experience. However past performance does not guarantee future results. Also eventually the "law of large numbers" will need to kick in to slow the rate at which bitcoin can continue to increase in value

It may take about 50 years for the law of large numbers to kick in. Take credit card adoption as an example. Western Union began issuing charge cards to its frequent customers in 1921. Mass adoption happened about the time Visa replaced BankAmericard. BankAmericard became the first successful recognizably modern credit card with overseas affiliates, in 1977 changed its name to Visa.

[kingscrown]

its just small downside..

[cyberpinoy]

Is it just me or does it seem like the bitcoin "craze" has died down a lot? Not as much people active in talking about it, and especially in other forums for altcoins, there used to be a lot of buzz and excitement but not any more it seems

Don`t listen to the idiots who just call it a bubble, they are stupid and base their response on hope and not common logic. I don't see any reason for that to happen. It seems highly unlikely to me. Course on the http://mining-profit.com/ suits me perfectly.

I have to agree, 2 years ago  maybe ...MAYBE you could call this a bubble situation, but a lot has happened in 2 years. I will gladly eat my word if we seem to be wrong (TRUST ME) but as i research it seems these "bubbles" seem to be nothing more than coincidences or blatant pumps from people who have the ability to move the market. no one knows when these guys will stop pumping this market. Hope is not something miners can afford to base thier investment on, hope is useless, we desire results, and actions speak louder than words. Unfortunately the pricing actions right now are speaking volumes and they are screaming fall fall fall.

Trust and believe I dont care which direction it goes, I have a hopefull backup plan, but I can see if someone doesnt step up and do something positive for BTC demand probelem those bubbles you guys are used to are gonna pop right in your face.

I am just saying what goes up must come down. But things that go down are not guaranteed to go back up

[ChuckBuck]

I wonder if Scott Ellison thinks the Bitcoin craze is dying down?

https://www.paypal-community.com/t5/PayPal-Forward/PayPal-and-Virtual-Currency/ba-p/828230


Eh, he and PayPal/Ebay are small potatoes, what do they know...

[zorke]

this time last year bitcoin went from $90 down to $70 and people were shouting that bitcoin craze was dying out.. then as october approached it went above $100, and then up up up.

you want to know why september-october is so important..

think about these three countries
thailand, costa rica, america.. then click this link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiscal_year#Chart_of_various_fiscal_years

if your old enough to actually bother paying tax, then you will know

So this time last year the low was $70.
This year the low is $400
What will the low be at this time next year?

I'm guessing two thousand plus or minus ten percent.

This is true based on prior experience. However past performance does not guarantee future results. Also eventually the "law of large numbers" will need to kick in to slow the rate at which bitcoin can continue to increase in value

It may take about 50 years for the law of large numbers to kick in. Take credit card adoption as an example. Western Union began issuing charge cards to its frequent customers in 1921. Mass adoption happened about the time Visa replaced BankAmericard. BankAmericard became the first successful recognizably modern credit card with overseas affiliates, in 1977 changed its name to Visa.

I was actually talking about the law of large numbers regarding future returns on the price of bitcoin. The market cap of bitcoin currently stands at ~$6 billion. The GDP of the world is ~$85 trillion (depending on how you measure this). You were able to make 100x your money (based in fiat) if you bought at the low price and sold bitcoin at the high price during 2013. If we were to see this happen again then the market cap would go to ~$600 billion, if it were to happen a 2nd time then the market cap would be approaching the world GDP. My overall point is that extremely large returns are not able to be sustained over long periods of time.

[bitcoinforhelp]

Im crazy about bitcoin since over a year. Love it, spreading word about it, im happy!

[Vslacha]

I think this is happening due to continuous fall of price and high difficulty on mining.

[cyberpinoy]

I wonder if Scott Ellison thinks the Bitcoin craze is dying down?

https://www.paypal-community.com/t5/PayPal-Forward/PayPal-and-Virtual-Currency/ba-p/828230


Eh, he and PayPal/Ebay are small potatoes, what do they know...

yea if you thing Ebay/Paypal are going to help the value of bitcoin your crazy, they will dump those coins as fast as they get them. Plus the decision is not final yet, dont pump useless news.

[QuestionAuthority]

this time last year bitcoin went from $90 down to $70 and people were shouting that bitcoin craze was dying out.. then as october approached it went above $100, and then up up up.

you want to know why september-october is so important..

think about these three countries
thailand, costa rica, america.. then click this link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiscal_year#Chart_of_various_fiscal_years

if your old enough to actually bother paying tax, then you will know

So this time last year the low was $70.
This year the low is $400
What will the low be at this time next year?

I'm guessing two thousand plus or minus ten percent.

This is true based on prior experience. However past performance does not guarantee future results. Also eventually the "law of large numbers" will need to kick in to slow the rate at which bitcoin can continue to increase in value

It may take about 50 years for the law of large numbers to kick in. Take credit card adoption as an example. Western Union began issuing charge cards to its frequent customers in 1921. Mass adoption happened about the time Visa replaced BankAmericard. BankAmericard became the first successful recognizably modern credit card with overseas affiliates, in 1977 changed its name to Visa.

I was actually talking about the law of large numbers regarding future returns on the price of bitcoin. The market cap of bitcoin currently stands at ~$6 billion. The GDP of the world is ~$85 trillion (depending on how you measure this). You were able to make 100x your money (based in fiat) if you bought at the low price and sold bitcoin at the high price during 2013. If we were to see this happen again then the market cap would go to ~$600 billion, if it were to happen a 2nd time then the market cap would be approaching the world GDP. My overall point is that extremely large returns are not able to be sustained over long periods of time.

Ah, I see. I sure hope you're right. I'd love to be rich. I just see it as taking a very long time.

[franky1]

all you people talking about bitcoins and bubbles and how theres a bubble each year and blah blah blah. ill leave you with this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZwbTKYhvIY

if people cannot 100% describe bitcoin clearly as a bubble, THEN ITS NOT A BUBBLE

[OrientA]

all you people talking about bitcoins and bubbles and how theres a bubble each year and blah blah blah. ill leave you with this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZwbTKYhvIY

if people cannot 100% describe bitcoin clearly as a bubble, THEN ITS NOT A BUBBLE

BTC is not a bubble. It still has potential to grow.

[ChuckBuck]

I wonder if Scott Ellison thinks the Bitcoin craze is dying down?

https://www.paypal-community.com/t5/PayPal-Forward/PayPal-and-Virtual-Currency/ba-p/828230


Eh, he and PayPal/Ebay are small potatoes, what do they know...

yea if you thing Ebay/Paypal are going to help the value of bitcoin your crazy, they will dump those coins as fast as they get them. Plus the decision is not final yet, dont pump useless news.

Nah, you're right. Ebay/Paypal are insignificant companies in the grand scheme of things.  They won't impact Bitcoin one way or another.


Rank   Company   Industry   Revenue   FY   Employees   Market cap   Headquarter   Refs
1   United States   Amazon   E-commerce   $74.45   2014   117,300   $160.49   Seattle, WA, USA   
2   United States   Google   Search   $59.82   2014   47,756   $380.64   Mountain View, CA, USA   
3   United States   eBay   E-commerce   $16.05   2014   31,500   $68.51   San Jose, CA, USA   
4   China   Tencent   Social   $9.91   2014   25,517   $65.01   Shenzhen, China   
5   United States   Facebook   Social   $7.87   2014   6,337   $160.03   Menlo Park, CA, USA   
6   Japan   Rakuten   E-commerce   $5.56   2014   10,867   $13.06   Tokyo, Japan   
7   United States   Priceline.com   Travel   $5.26   2014   8,000   $35.58   Norwalk, CT, USA   
8   United States   Yahoo   Web portal   $4.68   2014   12,200   $35.58   Sunnyvale, CA, USA   [
9   China   Baidu   Search   $3.54   2014   21,800   $29.75   Beijing, China   
10   United States   Salesforce.com   Cloud computing   $3.05   2014   12,000   $25.85   San Francisco, CA, USA   


Hmm...3rd largest Internet company with over $16 Billion in revenue and worth $65 Billion total market cap.  Are you sure this is useless news?

From Paypal's website:

Today we are announcing PayPal’s next step in helping merchants accept Bitcoin payments. PayPal has entered into agreements with leading Bitcoin payment processors BitPay, Coinbase and GoCoin. Starting today, these agreements let PayPal digital goods merchants accept Bitcoin with a simple integration through the PayPal Payments Hub. This will be available to merchants in North America first.

Hmm...entering agreements and posting said agreements sounds pretty official to me.  Are you sure it's not final yet?

[Balls]

all you people talking about bitcoins and bubbles and how theres a bubble each year and blah blah blah. ill leave you with this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZwbTKYhvIY

if people cannot 100% describe bitcoin clearly as a bubble, THEN ITS NOT A BUBBLE

BTC is not a bubble. It still has potential to grow.

It shares many aspects of bubble but isn't really one. Maybe it can be a new kind of bubble that grows and collapses several times before finally popping. I think it needs to pop to be a proper bubble, but hopefully that wont happen.

[naztykoyn]

Not true.. Its just starting. I mean the craze, its just starting.. It will keep getting interesting and interesting.

[Poolie]

Threads like this are silly. Just because the price hasn't been shooting skyward like a rocket doesnt mean that it's dying. I think bitcoin is still only beginning and is still trying to find it's feet.

1CSivJuh39gypYgtSURJ19BM9U5m1ycaM2

[letyouearn]

Threads like this are silly. Just because the price hasn't been shooting skyward like a rocket doesnt mean that it's dying. I think bitcoin is still only beginning and is still trying to find it's feet.

I agree with you.

+1.

[IceTurk]

The end of bitcoin is coming

[thejaytiesto]

The end of bitcoin is coming

Whats the point of messages like this? The end of Bitcoin will be when it hits 0 and no fucking using it. If massive adoption happens and Bitcoin is like 1 dollar.. so what? What matters is the use of it, not its speculative value. Even tho, mass adoption is linked with higher price anyway.

[RodeoX]

The funny thing is that there has NEVER been so much adoption of bitcoin or more planning for the future of bitcoin. I don't pay attention to the price, the indicator that matters is how pervasive it's use has become. These are the best days I have seen since 2011.

[Kobold8]

compare with the beginning, it really gying down, but it won't stop.

[FunnyHat43]

The funny thing is that there has NEVER been so much adoption of bitcoin or more planning for the future of bitcoin. I don't pay attention to the price, the indicator that matters is how pervasive it's use has become. These are the best days I have seen since 2011.

Not only that but adoption rates are growing, both at the customer level, and at the merchant level

[Tx2000]

If you equate the "craze" with prices, probably.  But as far as general usage and adoption that is occurring, quite the opposite.  Some people just need to get realistic about things and realize that Bitcoin won't be experiencing these meteoric rises anymore.


I was driving on the QEW today and saw a Mazda with a Bitcoin bumper sticker.  It's good to see.

[QuestionAuthority]

The funny thing is that there has NEVER been so much adoption of bitcoin or more planning for the future of bitcoin. I don't pay attention to the price, the indicator that matters is how pervasive it's use has become. These are the best days I have seen since 2011.

I agree that a lot of businesses are now accepting Bitcoin. I still don't see a huge leap in average consumers (not miners) using Bitcoin. In fact, the market cap is actually decreasing from its Dec 2013 high and it doesn't matter. I don't care if every business in the world takes it if few people are using it. There's really no down side for a business to take any payment system. Price is irrelevant, adding more businesses at this point is irrelevant, at this juncture adding daily users is important.

[jbreher]

adding more businesses at this point is irrelevant, at this juncture adding daily users is important.

Chicken vs. egg. For five years, we had advancing adoption by daily users, no businesses of which to speak. Chicken. Now we have a wave of business adoption, with little end user number increase. Egg. Next wave - users taking advantage of the new places and ways to use Bitcoin. The chickens coming home to roost.

(How long can chickens and eggs leapfrog each other before they both break out into a mad sprint?) {not to mix my metaphors or anything}

[franky1]

adding more businesses at this point is irrelevant, at this juncture adding daily users is important.

Chicken vs. egg. For five years, we had advancing adoption by daily users, no businesses of which to speak. Chicken. Now we have a wave of business adoption, with little end user number increase. Egg. Next wave - users taking advantage of the new places and ways to use Bitcoin. The chickens coming home to roost.

(How long can chickens and eggs leapfrog each other before they both break out into a mad sprint?) {not to mix my metaphors or anything}

the chicken and egg has already been solved.. a mutated duck pushd out an egg and the result is what we now call a chicken. the egg came first..

but that being said.. USER adoption has not shrink. it has grown, the only different is that people are not linking bank accouts to risky untrustable exchanges that now also have AMLKYC restrictions to limit investment size, whilst also creating headaches..
with that said bitcoin user adoption has increased ALOT more but you wont see it on exchanges, as its all happening in private.

these crappy exchangs programmed in PHP would and should die out. and people need to find different bitcoin value measure compared to the current range of public exchanges.

[keithers]

I think it is kind of inaccurate because most people are basing their gauge of the "bitcoin craze" directly on the price per BTC.

If it were based on how many people are starting to get paid in BTC, or how many people are leaving high power positions to go to BTC startups,   or how much VC money is going into developing BTC companies, or companies built on top of BTC, then the 'bitcoin craze' as you call it is clearly at an all time high.

If you are solely basing it on price, which most people are, then I guess you can make the statement that the btc craze is temporarily dying down...

[AnswerQuestion]

The funny thing is that there has NEVER been so much adoption of bitcoin or more planning for the future of bitcoin. I don't pay attention to the price, the indicator that matters is how pervasive it's use has become. These are the best days I have seen since 2011.

I agree that a lot of businesses are now accepting Bitcoin. I still don't see a huge leap in average consumers (not miners) using Bitcoin. In fact, the market cap is actually decreasing from its Dec 2013 high and it doesn't matter. I don't care if every business in the world takes it if few people are using it. There's really no down side for a business to take any payment system. Price is irrelevant, adding more businesses at this point is irrelevant, at this juncture adding daily users is important.

As it stands now, businesses are accepting bitcoin and pocketing the entire cost savings they get from receiving a payment in bitcoin verses a payment via a credit card. They are trying to get people to spend their bitcoin that they would otherwise not spend (which also means they are trying to get people to spend money they would not otherwise spend). If more merchants were to split some of the cost savings with customers (eg offer a discount) then consumer adoption would rise as people are always looking for a good deal

[TrailingComet]

Good, the craze was never good for btc long term
Maybe now the community can finally focus on making substantive progress with regulators and necessary protocol tweaks to foster sustainable adoption

[OrientA]

Good, the craze was never good for btc long term
Maybe now the community can finally focus on making substantive progress with regulators and necessary protocol tweaks to foster sustainable adoption

The recent price drop could be related to regulatory uncertainty.

[Ruthful]

I think it is kind of inaccurate because most people are basing their gauge of the "bitcoin craze" directly on the price per BTC.

If it were based on how many people are starting to get paid in BTC, or how many people are leaving high power positions to go to BTC startups,   or how much VC money is going into developing BTC companies, or companies built on top of BTC, then the 'bitcoin craze' as you call it is clearly at an all time high.

If you are solely basing it on price, which most people are, then I guess you can make the statement that the btc craze is temporarily dying down...

Perhaps instead of craze , what we should be developing/focussing is rationality.People are beginning to grasp the limitation of bitcoin and building around it.Many people like to compare bitcoin to the internet.Lets not forget that at the beginning the hype(promoted by overzealousness and naivety)  about the internet was tremendous.How the internet was going to end wars, makes government and borders obsolete and promotes ,  of freedom(seem familiar doesn't it?).The dotcom bubble was one  famous example of this culmination .We are now standing in the age of internet maturity and how the hype have yet to match reality(or if it ever will).If the bitcoin follows this analogy,its trajectory might follow the same pattern.

That is unless bitcoin went the way of the PDA or the pager ,that is.

[jjacob]

I think it is kind of inaccurate because most people are basing their gauge of the "bitcoin craze" directly on the price per BTC.

If it were based on how many people are starting to get paid in BTC, or how many people are leaving high power positions to go to BTC startups,   or how much VC money is going into developing BTC companies, or companies built on top of BTC, then the 'bitcoin craze' as you call it is clearly at an all time high.

If you are solely basing it on price, which most people are, then I guess you can make the statement that the btc craze is temporarily dying down...

Perhaps instead of craze , what we should be developing/focussing is rationality.People are beginning to grasp the limitation of bitcoin and building around it.Many people like to compare bitcoin to the internet.Lets not forget that at the beginning the hype(promoted by overzealousness and naivety)  about the internet was tremendous.How the internet was going to end wars, makes government and borders obsolete and promotes ,  of freedom(seem familiar doesn't it?).The dotcom bubble was one  famous example of this culmination .We are now standing in the age of internet maturity and how the hype have yet to match reality(or if it ever will).If the bitcoin follows this analogy,its trajectory might follow the same pattern.

That is unless bitcoin went the way of the PDA or the pager ,that is.

The ones who are getting out of bitcoins now are the get-reach-quickly types.

[guzazaza]

Good, the craze was never good for btc long term
Maybe now the community can finally focus on making substantive progress with regulators and necessary protocol tweaks to foster sustainable adoption

You are here because of the craze. 

[IamCANADIAN013]

Is it just me or does it seem like the bitcoin "craze" has died down a lot? Not as much people active in talking about it, and especially in other forums for altcoins, there used to be a lot of buzz and excitement but not any more it seems

It's definitely died down since it hit over $1000, but I'd say thats a good thing.  Bitcoin grew too big, too fast as far as I'm concerned.  I know I lost interest in talking about for a while but it didn't stop me from keeping an eye on it and investing in it.

Bitcoin has had a rough ride this year and a lot of "I told you so" were thrown around to people who talked about it and supported it. I'd like to see Bitcoin go back underground so to speak and grow slowly.  Wasn't that the point of it in the first place?

Like any investment in it's infancy, sometimes it's just better to walk away for a while and let it grow up.

[ytr8]

Because of the  leveraged transactions, the bitcoin craze dying down, because there is no leverage so the dogecoin is rising up

[cryptonikus]

I dont know how is going adoption, but some people think it is dying, just because there are no headlines in news about bitcoin. But those people will be waken up in few years, and will regret, that they were just waiting on sidelines, for news people to tell them what is going on in real world.

[QuestionAuthority]

I dont know how is going adoption, but some people think it is dying, just because there are no headlines in news about bitcoin. But those people will be waken up in few years, and will regret, that they were just waiting on sidelines, for news people to tell them what is going on in real world.

User adoption is moving slowly but it's not dying. We need an idea for something everyone will want but can only be purchased with Bitcoin. Like the next big fad. POGs or Beanie Babies but for Bitcoin. Once people have learned how easy it is to use Bitcoin with Circle many of them will use it again.

[Window2Wall]

I dont know how is going adoption, but some people think it is dying, just because there are no headlines in news about bitcoin. But those people will be waken up in few years, and will regret, that they were just waiting on sidelines, for news people to tell them what is going on in real world.

User adoption is moving slowly but it's not dying. We need an idea for something everyone will want but can only be purchased with Bitcoin. Like the next big fad. POGs or Beanie Babies but for Bitcoin. Once people have learned how easy it is to use Bitcoin with Circle many of them will use it again.

I think that circle could cause many more people to be comfortable to use bitcoin. This coupled with the fact that many merchants are seeing benefits of accepting bitcoin and are taking advantage of these benefits will cause the rate of adoption to increase

[bbit]

I dont know how is going adoption, but some people think it is dying, just because there are no headlines in news about bitcoin. But those people will be waken up in few years, and will regret, that they were just waiting on sidelines, for news people to tell them what is going on in real world.

User adoption is moving slowly but it's not dying. We need an idea for something everyone will want but can only be purchased with Bitcoin. Like the next big fad. POGs or Beanie Babies but for Bitcoin. Once people have learned how easy it is to use Bitcoin with Circle many of them will use it again.

Some alt-coin shake-out has to happen . So much dead money in alt-coins it could drag some of BTC down.

[achow101]

I hope it will going up within 1 year hahaha

[ekstremista]

Another $100 down in a couple days? It's just a flesh wound.

[QuestionAuthority]

I dont know how is going adoption, but some people think it is dying, just because there are no headlines in news about bitcoin. But those people will be waken up in few years, and will regret, that they were just waiting on sidelines, for news people to tell them what is going on in real world.

User adoption is moving slowly but it's not dying. We need an idea for something everyone will want but can only be purchased with Bitcoin. Like the next big fad. POGs or Beanie Babies but for Bitcoin. Once people have learned how easy it is to use Bitcoin with Circle many of them will use it again.

Some alt-coin shake-out has to happen . So much dead money in alt-coins it could drag some of BTC down.

Maybe but I see altcoins as more pump n dump coins for children. I'm surprised we haven't seen one called BeerMoneyCoin or AllowanceNotEnoughCoin. Most of the dumbasses are pumping on bad clones of even worse scrypt based shitcoins. I don't know why these kids think you can clone a turd and think it's suddenly going to smell like a rose. I doubt many first time users are purchasing anything with most of the altcoins. Mr. Normal Citizen is not going to use Dogecoin or Darkcoin to buy from Overstock even if they could. Bitcoin is alone in name recognition and availability.

[achow101]

I think BTC price will drop to 300USD within today 

[BTCmoons]

I dont know how is going adoption, but some people think it is dying, just because there are no headlines in news about bitcoin. But those people will be waken up in few years, and will regret, that they were just waiting on sidelines, for news people to tell them what is going on in real world.

User adoption is moving slowly but it's not dying. We need an idea for something everyone will want but can only be purchased with Bitcoin. Like the next big fad. POGs or Beanie Babies but for Bitcoin. Once people have learned how easy it is to use Bitcoin with Circle many of them will use it again.

Some alt-coin shake-out has to happen . So much dead money in alt-coins it could drag some of BTC down.

Maybe but I see altcoins as more pump n dump coins for children. I'm surprised we haven't seen one called BeerMoneyCoin or AllowanceNotEnoughCoin. Most of the dumbasses are pumping on bad clones of even worse scrypt based shitcoins. I don't know why these kids think you can clone a turd and think it's suddenly going to smell like a rose. I doubt many first time users are purchasing anything with most of the altcoins. Mr. Normal Citizen is not going to use Dogecoin or Darkcoin to buy from Overstock even if they could. Bitcoin is alone in name recognition and availability.

I don't think that children are making the altcoins, as the devs need to have some level of programming expertise to make and launch an altcoin.

The creators want to at least an appearance of the alt coin having value, although I do agree that they are nothing more then scams

[QuestionAuthority]

I dont know how is going adoption, but some people think it is dying, just because there are no headlines in news about bitcoin. But those people will be waken up in few years, and will regret, that they were just waiting on sidelines, for news people to tell them what is going on in real world.

User adoption is moving slowly but it's not dying. We need an idea for something everyone will want but can only be purchased with Bitcoin. Like the next big fad. POGs or Beanie Babies but for Bitcoin. Once people have learned how easy it is to use Bitcoin with Circle many of them will use it again.

Some alt-coin shake-out has to happen . So much dead money in alt-coins it could drag some of BTC down.

Maybe but I see altcoins as more pump n dump coins for children. I'm surprised we haven't seen one called BeerMoneyCoin or AllowanceNotEnoughCoin. Most of the dumbasses are pumping on bad clones of even worse scrypt based shitcoins. I don't know why these kids think you can clone a turd and think it's suddenly going to smell like a rose. I doubt many first time users are purchasing anything with most of the altcoins. Mr. Normal Citizen is not going to use Dogecoin or Darkcoin to buy from Overstock even if they could. Bitcoin is alone in name recognition and availability.

I don't think that children are making the altcoins, as the devs need to have some level of programming expertise to make and launch an altcoin.

The creators want to at least an appearance of the alt coin having value, although I do agree that they are nothing more then scams

Yeah, you're right. Kids could never do anything that technologically sophisticated.

Michael Mooney was a 17-year-old Brooklyn high school senior when he wreaked a bit of havoc on Twitter in April of 2009.

Twitter had to fix more than 200 infected accounts and delete 10,000 tweets because of the spam-inducing worms Mooney created called "Mikeyy" and "StalkDaily"

Owen Thor Walker helped an online hacker gang steal $20 million from over 1.3 million computers around the world.

Jon Lech Johansen, more commonly known as "DVD Jon," rose to fame because of his work on DeCSS, an encryption cracker that pissed off Hollywood.

He has also come up with numerous hacks for iTunes and Windows Media Player that have earned him attention.

[crazyjack]

I think BTC price will drop to 300USD within today  

Your thoughts became reality...  

Predict something else!  

[Impros88]

I invested almost all my savings in btc when it was 950. Well, fuck you bitcoin, fuck you and all the Altcoin and everyone else. I hate the fucking day I knew about btc a D decided to invest. Everyone was like "Bitcoin is the future", "Bitcoin to da moon"... yes, my ass. I only have a job which will last only another one month. I hoped to make some money, and I lost everything. Thanks all guys. This forum is so good in giving right info.

[bcmine]

Is it just me or does it seem like the bitcoin "craze" has died down a lot? Not as much people active in talking about it, and especially in other forums for altcoins, there used to be a lot of buzz and excitement but not any more it seems

yeah russia is out. and russia has power to destroy the bitcoin. good thing, when one day russia unban the bitcoin, they price will rise 

[CryptoCarmen]

I think BTC price will drop to 300USD within today 

Maybe not today, but tomorrow for sure.

[inBitweTrust]

I invested almost all my savings in btc when it was 950. Well, fuck you bitcoin, fuck you and all the Altcoin and everyone else. I hate the fucking day I knew about btc a D decided to invest. Everyone was like "Bitcoin is the future", "Bitcoin to da moon"... yes, my ass. I only have a job which will last only another one month. I hoped to make some money, and I lost everything. Thanks all guys. This forum is so good in giving right info.

Go fuck yourself too. ... Bitcoin isn't some get rich ponzi scheme for investors to just buy up and make a quick buck. Bitcoin is a fragile project we are all struggling to make real and has done some amazing things despite all odds but still needs a lot of effort to be realized.

If you are going to invest , don't spend what you can't lose and have liquidity to buy at great times like these.

I think BTC price will drop to 300USD within today  

Maybe not today, but tomorrow for sure.

You realize it already dipped to 275 and now is back up to 299 right? It may crash against down to 200-250 as well. This is nothing new. Don't be stupid and sell at a loss , this is great time to buy more.

[QuestionAuthority]

I invested almost all my savings in btc when it was 950. Well, fuck you bitcoin, fuck you and all the Altcoin and everyone else. I hate the fucking day I knew about btc a D decided to invest. Everyone was like "Bitcoin is the future", "Bitcoin to da moon"... yes, my ass. I only have a job which will last only another one month. I hoped to make some money, and I lost everything. Thanks all guys. This forum is so good in giving right info.

That was your only mistake. Investments are as likely to lose you money as they are to make you money. I've made money and lost money on the stock market. I've made money and barely broke even because of broker commissions on the stock market. That's not the stock markets fault. If you we're here only to make money then you fucked up. Bitcoin didn't do that to you.

[Some1else0]

I think most people are just being quiet since the Bitcoin price isn't increasing. However, if it was then a lot of hype would be generated.

[chipxtreme]

My take on it is, we got the bubble when alt-coins took off and people could mine with their GPU's, we had people from all over the world buying out stocks of AMD graphics cards pushing the prices of them up 50% in some cases. This caused the price of bitcoin to go up to $1200 at its peak. Then over time as people joined in the profits in GPU mining dropped, asic's came out, then the price dropped through the floor and even the less power hungry algo's like x11 can't even make your electric cost back. Your average Joe lost money and most don't want to invest in ASIC's and a large percentage of those people have lost interest.

Now we have a domino effect and its even hard for ASICs to make a profit. I'm looking to sell my ASIC's but i'm going to hold onto the small amount of btc I have and hope that there is a spike again.

[Jerrietg]

price dump or pump is very normal , don't worry baout the price , is price down so you said bitcoin

dying ? ridiculous

[IamCANADIAN013]

I invested almost all my savings in btc when it was 950. Well, fuck you bitcoin, fuck you and all the Altcoin and everyone else. I hate the fucking day I knew about btc a D decided to invest. Everyone was like "Bitcoin is the future", "Bitcoin to da moon"... yes, my ass. I only have a job which will last only another one month. I hoped to make some money, and I lost everything. Thanks all guys. This forum is so good in giving right info.

Why are you blaming bitcoin and the forum for your own stupidity?  Investment 101, you never put all your eggs in one basket.  I invested a few grand into bitcoin when it was roughly $600. Am I mad because I'm losing money? Not at all.  This isn't a short term thing, it's a long term investment in the future.

By the looks of your case, you were looking into bitcoin as a get rich quick plan.  Those plans rarely ever work out well.  Just ask all the people that lost everything when the .com crash happened.

[santaClause]

I invested almost all my savings in btc when it was 950. Well, fuck you bitcoin, fuck you and all the Altcoin and everyone else. I hate the fucking day I knew about btc a D decided to invest. Everyone was like "Bitcoin is the future", "Bitcoin to da moon"... yes, my ass. I only have a job which will last only another one month. I hoped to make some money, and I lost everything. Thanks all guys. This forum is so good in giving right info.

That was your only mistake. Investments are as likely to lose you money as they are to make you money. I've made money and lost money on the stock market. I've made money and barely broke even because of broker commissions on the stock market. That's not the stock markets fault. If you we're here only to make money then you fucked up. Bitcoin didn't do that to you.

If you look at his previous posts you would also see that the money that he invested in bitcoin was not even "his" as it was a gift given to him by his grandmother. IMO he has no business investing any money in bitcion as it was never what he earned to invest.

Regardless the price decline has clearly not gotten him to decide to not continue his involvement in bitcon as he is clearly still somewhat active in trolling

[rocoro]

Bitcoin is like alta vista or yahoo..  first movers suck...

Where is the google of crypto?

[QuestionAuthority]

I invested almost all my savings in btc when it was 950. Well, fuck you bitcoin, fuck you and all the Altcoin and everyone else. I hate the fucking day I knew about btc a D decided to invest. Everyone was like "Bitcoin is the future", "Bitcoin to da moon"... yes, my ass. I only have a job which will last only another one month. I hoped to make some money, and I lost everything. Thanks all guys. This forum is so good in giving right info.

That was your only mistake. Investments are as likely to lose you money as they are to make you money. I've made money and lost money on the stock market. I've made money and barely broke even because of broker commissions on the stock market. That's not the stock markets fault. If you we're here only to make money then you fucked up. Bitcoin didn't do that to you.

If you look at his previous posts you would also see that the money that he invested in bitcoin was not even "his" as it was a gift given to him by his grandmother. IMO he has no business investing any money in bitcion as it was never what he earned to invest.

Regardless the price decline has clearly not gotten him to decide to not continue his involvement in bitcon as he is clearly still somewhat active in trolling

Oh well, butthurt makes a lot of people leave. It's usually from their own mistakes.

On a side note: Can I get 10,000 bitcoins for christmas? I've been a good boy, sort of. lol

[e-coinomist]

Oh well, butthurt makes a lot of people leave. It's usually from their own mistakes.

On a side note: Can I get 10,000 bitcoins for christmas? I've been a good boy, sort of. lol

Collect 10$ bills each week. Eleven weeks left, that could fit on 10k BTC at christmas pricing.
The expectation of the poster above was: BTC will go up. Moonish, so to say.
Today it is: Will go down.

And that is the trouble, a downwards spiral where market expectations make it look rationale to sell all BTC as a smart move. You can always buy back lower.

What sounds smart for the single market participant, selling earlier for a higher price then people following a second late, is lethal for the whole currency. From this projection, the "ideal buying price" is ZERO. Just from that point onwards it is difficult to regain a value above ZERO, ever again. Since each and every Pennystock can literally outperform Bitcoin with just some feature, may it speed or blockchain download time or just anything, that Bitcoin does not offer so far.

Tuff days.

[QuestionAuthority]

Oh well, butthurt makes a lot of people leave. It's usually from their own mistakes.

On a side note: Can I get 10,000 bitcoins for christmas? I've been a good boy, sort of. lol

Collect 10$ bills each week. Eleven weeks left, that could fit on 10k BTC at christmas pricing.
The expectation of the poster above was: BTC will go up. Moonish, so to say.
Today it is: Will go down.

And that is the trouble, a downwards spiral where market expectations make it look rationale to sell all BTC as a smart move. You can always buy back lower.

What sounds smart for the single market participant, selling earlier for a higher price then people following a second late, is lethal for the whole currency. From this projection, the "ideal buying price" is ZERO. Just from that point onwards it is difficult to regain a value above ZERO, ever again. Since each and every Pennystock can literally outperform Bitcoin with just some feature, may it speed or blockchain download time or just anything, that Bitcoin does not offer so far.

Tuff days.

Meh, I've seen a few of these fall/winter drops in price and it always goes up again. People just want to make money on Bitcoin fast like it's a magic pill. When that doesn't happen they get butthurt.

[Daniel91]

Oh well, butthurt makes a lot of people leave. It's usually from their own mistakes.

On a side note: Can I get 10,000 bitcoins for christmas? I've been a good boy, sort of. lol

Collect 10$ bills each week. Eleven weeks left, that could fit on 10k BTC at christmas pricing.
The expectation of the poster above was: BTC will go up. Moonish, so to say.
Today it is: Will go down.

And that is the trouble, a downwards spiral where market expectations make it look rationale to sell all BTC as a smart move. You can always buy back lower.

What sounds smart for the single market participant, selling earlier for a higher price then people following a second late, is lethal for the whole currency. From this projection, the "ideal buying price" is ZERO. Just from that point onwards it is difficult to regain a value above ZERO, ever again. Since each and every Pennystock can literally outperform Bitcoin with just some feature, may it speed or blockchain download time or just anything, that Bitcoin does not offer so far.

Tuff days.

Meh, I've seen a few of these fall/winter drops in price and it always goes up again. People just want to make money on Bitcoin fast like it's a magic pill. When that doesn't happen they get butthurt.

Yes, I agree with this.
Human mentality is very interesting.
People have a herd mentality and this is very easy to monitor in the market.
If news are positive and price is going up, everybody buying.
If the price falls, everybody trying to sell in panic.
Only people who think rationally manage to make money on the stock market.
So, for some people, current situation with Bitcoin this is disaster and for others golden opportunity to earn good money.

[TheMasterKey]

We'll see another wave of Bitcoin craze if It touches 600 again.

[Impros88]

I invested almost all my savings in btc when it was 950. Well, fuck you bitcoin, fuck you and all the Altcoin and everyone else. I hate the fucking day I knew about btc a D decided to invest. Everyone was like "Bitcoin is the future", "Bitcoin to da moon"... yes, my ass. I only have a job which will last only another one month. I hoped to make some money, and I lost everything. Thanks all guys. This forum is so good in giving right info.

That was your only mistake. Investments are as likely to lose you money as they are to make you money. I've made money and lost money on the stock market. I've made money and barely broke even because of broker commissions on the stock market. That's not the stock markets fault. If you we're here only to make money then you fucked up. Bitcoin didn't do that to you.

If you look at his previous posts you would also see that the money that he invested in bitcoin was not even "his" as it was a gift given to him by his grandmother. IMO he has no business investing any money in bitcion as it was never what he earned to invest.

Regardless the price decline has clearly not gotten him to decide to not continue his involvement in bitcon as he is clearly still somewhat active in trolling

I still hope that one day it will jump. again at least to the price I bought it. My only rule was never to sell lower of th3 price I bought. Until I don't sell I don't lose. For the troll thing, I am just a bit angry and frustrated but what u say is true.

[DaveSaldana123]

Not from where Im sitting right now.

[DaveSaldana123]

I think so yes.. But I never said that it wont come back..

[philiveyjr]

Craze going down?? Probably..!! But I think more ppl r talking about it now.!! N more new ppl will venture into it now...as the prices r affordable.!! n It is gonna stabilize soon.!!

[BTCevo]

Craze going down?? Probably..!! But I think more ppl r talking about it now.!! N more new ppl will venture into it now...as the prices r affordable.!! n It is gonna stabilize soon.!!

More affordable? I don't think that's the right word. Whether the price is $1 or $10,000 you can still buy $10 worth of btc..

[ChuckBuck]

I don't think we can even say Bitcoin reached a "craze" yet.  We're still somewhere in the Innovators and Early Adopters phase:



We still got a long ways to go people.

[SW725]

Bitcoin craze is alive and well. Maybe you cant feel it anymore because you are a bitcoin senior now. Lets ask the newbies. Many newbies enter the forum everyday. Its the craze.

[OrientA]

It is between stage 1 and 2.

[BADecker]

If not the eye of the storm, then the calm before the storm.   

[MalboroMan36]

Is it just me or does it seem like the bitcoin "craze" has died down a lot? Not as much people active in talking about it, and especially in other forums for altcoins, there used to be a lot of buzz and excitement but not any more it seems

Most of altcoins - more specifically the ones released this year were pump and dump scams. I would say that less than 5% of the coins released this year are legit and have future potential. People are figuring this out, and alts have become a disgrace to the btc community.

[Soros Shorts]

We are "Crossing the Chasm":

[Eisenhower34]

Is it just me or does it seem like the bitcoin "craze" has died down a lot? Not as much people active in talking about it, and especially in other forums for altcoins, there used to be a lot of buzz and excitement but not any more it seems

Most of altcoins - more specifically the ones released this year were pump and dump scams. I would say that less than 5% of the coins released this year are legit and have future potential. People are figuring this out, and alts have become a disgrace to the btc community.

I would say that all altcoins have zero long term potential. They are not adding any kind of value to bitcoin in general and doing nothing more then sucking away value from bitcoin and putting it into obvious altcoin scams.

The few altcoins that have been successful in the past have survived only because they were the first of "their kind" even though the differences from bitcoin were very small

[BTCevo]

We are "Crossing the Chasm":

This chart looks a lot like the rise and fall of the bitcoin bubble which seems, at this point in time, to have peaked November 2013.

I could be wrong, I hope I am wrong but we could possibly see a nice steady $350 exchange rate that does not fluctuate more than a few dollars, and I have to say we have seen longer periods of non volatility this year than last. Also the more people using bitcoin the harder it will be for whales to make an impact, there will always be someone to buy at the right price..

BTCevo

[panju1]

Is it just me or does it seem like the bitcoin "craze" has died down a lot? Not as much people active in talking about it, and especially in other forums for altcoins, there used to be a lot of buzz and excitement but not any more it seems

Most of altcoins - more specifically the ones released this year were pump and dump scams. I would say that less than 5% of the coins released this year are legit and have future potential. People are figuring this out, and alts have become a disgrace to the btc community.

I would say that all altcoins have zero long term potential. They are not adding any kind of value to bitcoin in general and doing nothing more then sucking away value from bitcoin and putting it into obvious altcoin scams.

The few altcoins that have been successful in the past have survived only because they were the first of "their kind" even though the differences from bitcoin were very small

People still seem to be willing to put money into altcoins. They always hope to pick that one altcoin which turns out to be a 'bitcoin-killer'.

[Este Nuno]

I'd say we're definitely in the early majority period already. Bitcoin is very well known and has been used in one way or the other by lots of people by now. The early adopters were all here on this forum before early-mid 2013.

[MalboroMan36]

I'd say we're definitely in the early majority period already. Bitcoin is very well known and has been used in one way or the other by lots of people by now. The early adopters were all here on this forum before early-mid 2013.

I second that. The early majority period began with the late 2013 early 2014 bubble - and people like Richard Branson and those Facebook twins endorsing and investing in BTC. We are past the early adopters phase for sure.

I believe that it cannot be easily disputed that right now this is the early majority period.

[crazy-pilot]

Is it just me or does it seem like the bitcoin "craze" has died down a lot? Not as much people active in talking about it, and especially in other forums for altcoins, there used to be a lot of buzz and excitement but not any more it seems

Most of altcoins - more specifically the ones released this year were pump and dump scams. I would say that less than 5% of the coins released this year are legit and have future potential. People are figuring this out, and alts have become a disgrace to the btc community.

I would say that all altcoins have zero long term potential. They are not adding any kind of value to bitcoin in general and doing nothing more then sucking away value from bitcoin and putting it into obvious altcoin scams.

The few altcoins that have been successful in the past have survived only because they were the first of "their kind" even though the differences from bitcoin were very small

People still seem to be willing to put money into altcoins. They always hope to pick that one altcoin which turns out to be a 'bitcoin-killer'.

They are speculating. They are incorrect

[Zer0Sum]

Is it just me or does it seem like the bitcoin "craze" has died down a lot? Not as much people active in talking about it, and especially in other forums for altcoins, there used to be a lot of buzz and excitement but not any more it seems

Most of altcoins - more specifically the ones released this year were pump and dump scams. I would say that less than 5% of the coins released this year are legit and have future potential. People are figuring this out, and alts have become a disgrace to the btc community.

I would say that all altcoins have zero long term potential. They are not adding any kind of value to bitcoin in general and doing nothing more then sucking away value from bitcoin and putting it into obvious altcoin scams.

The few altcoins that have been successful in the past have survived only because they were the first of "their kind" even though the differences from bitcoin were very small

People still seem to be willing to put money into altcoins. They always hope to pick that one altcoin which turns out to be a 'bitcoin-killer'.

They are speculating. They are incorrect

They are speculating... and correct...
Because only decentralized and anon crypto can compete against Apple and Google...
(And Bitcoin is neither decentralized or anon).

Bitcoin is about to run smack into a wall called ApplePay... and offers no advantages over ApplePay.

"So if the bitcoin industry really wants to take on Apple Pay, it has to reinvent itself.
Make itself friendly. Market itself to people so technologically ignorant that they’re
one step away from microwaving their iPhones. That’s a difficult task to pull off."

Even that won't work...
Apple knows exactly what consumers and retailers want... Bitcoin doesn't care.

http://www.coindesk.com/apple-pay-threat-bitcoin/

[TheFootMan]

They are speculating... and correct...
Because only decentralized and anon crypto can compete against Apple and Google...
(And Bitcoin is neither decentralized or anon).

Bitcoin is about to run smack into a wall called ApplePay... and offers no advantages over ApplePay.

"So if the bitcoin industry really wants to take on Apple Pay, it has to reinvent itself.
Make itself friendly. Market itself to people so technologically ignorant that they’re
one step away from microwaving their iPhones. That’s a difficult task to pull off."

Even that won't work...
Apple knows exactly what consumers and retailers want... Bitcoin doesn't care.

http://www.coindesk.com/apple-pay-threat-bitcoin/

Bitcoin is not Apple, and never tried to be. Bitcoin is solving a problem, and it's solving it well, it does not need marketing to grow. It will grow, because it solves the issue of international payments well.

[funtotry]

Is it just me or does it seem like the bitcoin "craze" has died down a lot? Not as much people active in talking about it, and especially in other forums for altcoins, there used to be a lot of buzz and excitement but not any more it seems

Most of altcoins - more specifically the ones released this year were pump and dump scams. I would say that less than 5% of the coins released this year are legit and have future potential. People are figuring this out, and alts have become a disgrace to the btc community.

I would say that all altcoins have zero long term potential. They are not adding any kind of value to bitcoin in general and doing nothing more then sucking away value from bitcoin and putting it into obvious altcoin scams.

The few altcoins that have been successful in the past have survived only because they were the first of "their kind" even though the differences from bitcoin were very small

People still seem to be willing to put money into altcoins. They always hope to pick that one altcoin which turns out to be a 'bitcoin-killer'.

They are speculating. They are incorrect

They are speculating... and correct...
Because only decentralized and anon crypto can compete against Apple and Google...
(And Bitcoin is neither decentralized or anon).

Bitcoin is about to run smack into a wall called ApplePay... and offers no advantages over ApplePay.

"So if the bitcoin industry really wants to take on Apple Pay, it has to reinvent itself.
Make itself friendly. Market itself to people so technologically ignorant that they’re
one step away from microwaving their iPhones. That’s a difficult task to pull off."

Even that won't work...
Apple knows exactly what consumers and retailers want... Bitcoin doesn't care.

http://www.coindesk.com/apple-pay-threat-bitcoin/

You do not need to have an anon coin in order for it to be successful. You can also essentially make yourself anon when spending/buying/selling bitcoin for a small fee to bitcoin fog/bitmixer/other mixing service.

It is not possible to completely decentralize mining as someone who has a large amount of mining capacity could simply broadcast their found block from another IP address each time they find a block in order to make the network look decentralized. Also a semi centralized mining network is what is expected when a coin is successful, as even satashi predicted this.

The disadvantage that apple pay has over bitcoin is the fact that it still has the higher costs of using a credit card. All that apple pay adds to the equalization is convenience and nothing more

[Gleb Gamow]

you do make me laugh, i reply with facts, information and stats, and you reply with questions and insults.

i numbered them out for you, do i need to spoon feed you the more detailed explanation of why the 7 points i listed are better handled with bitcoin than other currencies.

do you not understand anything that when the world has an inflationary currency, people actually want deflationary. do you not understand that when currencies are shutting down bank accounts or taking a 'haircut' from peoples accounts people want something in their 100% control. do you not understand that people want to buy things online that they dont want their spouses or strangers finding out about. do you not understand that investors want to store wealth in something that wont burn under fire or wont get recalled under marshal law. do you not understand taking $10k fiat across a border is automatic seizure and "policing for profit" yet transferring $1mill in bitcoin is instantaneous with no border guards ransacking your car or luggage.

if you think that bitcoin is useless. then please please use your miners and mine your $1 an hours worth of satoshi dust your getting and send it to 'seans outpost' as they will put it to better work and find more value in it then you ever would.

so i have a question for you. if you think its worthless and has no demand.. why are you even on this forum.

and as for using my coins to create a buy wall. i played that game in 2012, it was fun, i made more profit, but then i grew a backbone and realised the bigger picture.

while you cry babies are monitoring exchange prices like a hawk swooping and diving at every movement. i am making more money privately amongst the smarter people, and yes we are ignoring the hourly/daily changes of exchanges, as they are the small time things for the little guys. to be honest the sooner those exchanges die the better

Actually you started with the insults, I compose myself with the respect of other peoples opinions until they resort to insults, then I let loose.

These are not a true demand franky
1) investments   (tradable market hmmm? what have I been saying all along)
2) unbanked       (useless nonsense)
3) blackmarket   (usually only used by criminals so real world application does not apply)
4) porn you wont want the wife seing on ur credit card  (again inferior activities not a demand)
5) gambling        (again inferior activities not a demand)
6) more fun to trade bitcoins than forex/shares/stocks (a complete contradiction to your whole post you said people are not trading on the market but rather person to person)  
7) move funds easier and cheaper than western union/paypal/wire transfer (unless you use places like localbitcoin.com who use western union and wire transfer as a payment method after exchanging)

Your post is not filled with facts its filled with your opinion I was the one starting to throw facts using credible sites with thier stats, you didnt seem to like that either.

The things you deem as a demand are both not a demand and can easily be countered in other ways. Why do you have a need to take 10,000 dollars across the border, theres no reason for that unless you are conducting criminal activities, All the banking crap you mentioned does exist but its not enough to pressure people into trading their USD for Fiat because the risk of loss to exchanges or other places like MTGOX will never go away. People dont want to deal with the bullshit that comes with the banks but its better than loosing everything they have to more criminal people like exchange owners stealing your coins. If you need to buy things online without your spouse knowing about ti franky thats a personal problem it does not create a demand for a currency. My wife knows everything I do online and I am not bothered by that, sounds like you need a new spouse.And lastly "REAL" invewstors are not even in the bitcoin game, to many variables, to many risks, to much to lose.

And do you see how blindly stupid you are, Where did I say to put your coins on the market I said use your coins to create a demand, but you are so blindly stupid in your theories YOU (not me) are the one placing its value in its tradable market, no matter if that market is its exchange, person to person, black market. You do not have enough intelligence to even see how you can make a difference in your investment. I never said for you to create a buy wall franky I said take 100BTC and create a demand,there is a difference and shows you dont understand what a demand is. You instantly connected what I saidb for creating a demand with a buy wall.  That is not what i was talking about at all. You and other "smarter" people like you are EXACTLY why the banks do not fear bitcoin!! and that, franky1, are the facts!! better get all your smarter friends together and get to work creating a true demand, i suggest you get a little better educated first in both currency trading and business economics as you will need both to complete that task!!!

franky1, here's how you handle a bullshitter: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=990219

[Mobius]

This typically happens when it is not pumping.

[HarmonLi]

Nice to see a thread back from September where the volume, transaction rates, etc. really died down a bit! Right now, even if the price is still a tad lower, we're on the way up again it seems!

[BrunesBTC45]

Is it just me or does it seem like the bitcoin "craze" has died down a lot? Not as much people active in talking about it, and especially in other forums for altcoins, there used to be a lot of buzz and excitement but not any more it seems

If you think that bitcoin craze has died down, then you do not know what youre talking about.
If you think that there is nothing to be crazy about bitcoin, maybe you need to research more about what is happening.
2015 has been all good for bitcoin (although theres some hacking incident in Asia)

[AtheistAKASaneBrain]

Nice to see a thread back from September where the volume, transaction rates, etc. really died down a bit! Right now, even if the price is still a tad lower, we're on the way up again it seems!

Venture capital flowing into Bitcoin is increasing insanely quick each year too.

[asuryan180]

Nice to see a thread back from September where the volume, transaction rates, etc. really died down a bit! Right now, even if the price is still a tad lower, we're on the way up again it seems!

Yeh it was not the greatest of times bitcoin has had but not the worse either. We will soon get the guys on lurk mode out of the wood works when they see the price rising day in say out and news in their face.

At the moment a lot have probably been fed up getting scammed on altcoins losing money on bitcoin we are only human after all and not everyone can take the stress but have no doubt they will be back.

[erikalui]

Yes and with respect to bitcoins, I only see this forum having active members who are earning and selling bitcoins for goods or products else reddit is one site where some people discuss about bitcoins. I was a member of another bitcoin forum that was very active in 2013 but it is almost dead now.

[erikalui]

Nice to see a thread back from September where the volume, transaction rates, etc. really died down a bit! Right now, even if the price is still a tad lower, we're on the way up again it seems!

Yeh it was not the greatest of times bitcoin has had but not the worse either. We will soon get the guys on lurk mode out of the wood works when they see the price rising day in say out and news in their face.

At the moment a lot have probably been fed up getting scammed on altcoins losing money on bitcoin we are only human after all and not everyone can take the stress but have no doubt they will be back.

It has already reached $294 and soon it will go upto $300 but as far I can see, quite a few people use bitcoins while others who use PayPal or Payza aren't even interested in owning bitcoins as it is risky for them. If bitcoins do get adopted as a recognized currency, it will attract more users.

[ChuckBuck]

Yes and with respect to bitcoins, I only see this forum having active members who are earning and selling bitcoins for goods or products else reddit is one site where some people discuss about bitcoins. I was a member of another bitcoin forum that was very active in 2013 but it is almost dead now.

What other forum site is there about Bitcoin?  Before I became an active member of this site and was still learning about Bitcoin, this and Reddit seemed like the only 2 communities that had decent activity.

[erikalui]

What other forum site is there about Bitcoin?  Before I became an active member of this site and was still learning about Bitcoin, this and Reddit seemed like the only 2 communities that had decent activity.

There are quite many of which this forum is one: https://www.bitcoinforum.com/index.php

I am still a member of this forum which was quite active earlier but now very few topics are being created and hardly I can see any interaction.

[tspacepilot]

You know, I really think it boils down to what's meant by "craze".  Too much hype ends us up in a bubble and we get the pump-n-crash cycle that we saw in 2013.  Too little hype and everyone thinks "bitcoin is dying" and that's obviously not good either.  In my opinion what we need is steady growth, steady appearance of new services/business, and steadily more adoption.  I think that on the whole that's what we've been seeing for the last few years.  However the speculation scene means that sometimes things get very crazy and I for one hope that that craziness doesn't override the core fundamentals of bitcoin which are truly exciting and revolutionary.

[darlidada]

2015 will be the year of cryptonote technology.

[ChuckBuck]

What other forum site is there about Bitcoin?  Before I became an active member of this site and was still learning about Bitcoin, this and Reddit seemed like the only 2 communities that had decent activity.

There are quite many of which this forum is one: https://www.bitcoinforum.com/index.php

I am still a member of this forum which was quite active earlier but now very few topics are being created and hardly I can see any interaction.

Didn't know or hear about that one, thanks for forwarding that link.

I only signed up over here, because of the chosen one set it up...

[tspacepilot]

What other forum site is there about Bitcoin?  Before I became an active member of this site and was still learning about Bitcoin, this and Reddit seemed like the only 2 communities that had decent activity.

There are quite many of which this forum is one: https://www.bitcoinforum.com/index.php

I am still a member of this forum which was quite active earlier but now very few topics are being created and hardly I can see any interaction.

Didn't know or hear about that one, thanks for forwarding that link.

I only signed up over here, because of the chosen one set it up...

What's fun about this is that Satoshi only has +30 trust

We should remind everyone on default trust to trust Satoshi just so that he looks better than this, imo.  Hey default trusters, trust Satoshi please!

[ChuckBuck]

2015 will be the year of cryptonote technology.

OH no, you're not one of those altcoin monero/Cryptonote dudes are you?   

Don't see Cryptonote anywhere, perhaps in another lifetime?




Anyways, here's what Cryptonote developers had to say about integrating into the Blockchain recently:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIasr2AiyZ0

[darlidada]

Dont believe me. Believe what satoshi said about Ring Signatures:

This is a very interesting topic.  If a solution was found, a much better, easier, more convenient implementation of Bitcoin would be possible.

Here's him describing the essence of cryptonote:

I'm not grasping your idea yet.  Does it hide any information from the public network?  What is the advantage?

If at least 50% of nodes validated transactions enough that old transactions can be discarded, then everyone saw everything and could keep a record of it.

Can public nodes see the values of transactions?  Can they see which previous transaction the value came from?  If they can, then they know everything.  If they can't, then they couldn't verify that the value came from a valid source, so you couldn't take their generated chain as verification of it.

Does it hide the bitcoin addresses?  Is that it?  OK, maybe now I see, if that's it.

Crypto may offer a way to do "key blinding".  I did some research and it was obscure, but there may be something there.  "group signatures" may be related.

There's something here in the general area:
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hopwood/crypto/rh/

What we need is a way to generate additional blinded variations of a public key.  The blinded variations would have the same properties as the root public key, such that the private key could generate a signature for any one of them.  Others could not tell if a blinded key is related to the root key, or other blinded keys from the same root key.  These are the properties of blinding.  Blinding, in a nutshell, is x = (x * large_random_int) mod m.

When paying to a bitcoin address, you would generate a new blinded key for each use.

Then you need to be able to sign a signature such that you can't tell that two signatures came from the same private key.  I'm not sure if always signing a different blinded public key would already give you this property.  If not, I think that's where group signatures comes in.  With group signatures, it is possible for something to be signed but not know who signed it.

As an example, say some unpopular military attack has to be ordered, but nobody wants to go down in history as the one who ordered it.  If 10 leaders have private keys, one of them could sign the order and you wouldn't know who did it.

[shogdite]

Is it just me or does it seem like the bitcoin "craze" has died down a lot? Not as much people active in talking about it, and especially in other forums for altcoins, there used to be a lot of buzz and excitement but not any more it seems

Never considered bitcoin a 'craze', the novelty may have worn off a bit but that's to be expected I suppose.

This is still a very active forum, no doubt they'll be another surge of excitement when the bitcoin price reaches another high point.

[OpenOcean]

Looks like it's coming back up.

[funtotry]

Never considered bitcoin a craze, its just something that I use daily and never found it to be a fad. If it something that couild be a fad then it wont be a viable currency...