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Author Topic: Title change: Lawsuits filed to challenge the National Firearms Act  (Read 1560 times)
VexusMalius
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September 17, 2014, 09:12:12 PM
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This is more directed towards the Guncoin folks, but all firearms owners should take note of this info.

This year, the BATFE (Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives) made a serious boo boo (for them, it's good for us common plebes), and even admitted to it. Some of you may know that since 1986, the manufacture, possession, and sale of machine guns has been restricted to law enforcement and other government agencies, and the sale to individual persons was banned. Machine guns registered with the ATF prior to the closing date of the MG registry in 1986 are still transferable, but cost tens of thousands of dollars, in addition to the $200 tax you must pay for the NFA (Nat'l Firearms Act) item you want.

Recently, the ATF said that NFA trusts are not considered to be "persons" under the definitions outlined in the 1986 Firearms Owners Protection Act. Several people submitted ATF Form 1s (http://www.atf.gov/files/forms/download/atf-f-5320-1.pdf), with the applicant being the name of the trust, and the intention of manufacturing a transferable machine gun. The ATF approved the forms, and the machine guns (one of them being an M-16) were manufactured. Since then the ATF has had their panties in a bind trying to figure out how to close the can of worms they just opened.

Here's a link the the AR15.com discussion thread: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1624460_ATF_approved_post_1986_machine_guns_for_NFA_trusts__legal_action_pending__updated_9_16_14.html&page=1

There are also legislation being brought to the floor that would dissolve the BATFE into the DEA and FBI.  Grin
http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2014/09/17/legislation-introduced-to-get-rid-of-atf-n1893092
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/sep/17/top-goper-says-its-time-dissolve-atf/


tl,dr: The ATF approved the manufacture of new transferable machine guns by accident (not really), and are now freaking out about how to unfuck the situation. This is a good thing, and a win for freedom.
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September 17, 2014, 09:55:45 PM
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tl,dr: The ATF approved the manufacture of new transferable machine guns by accident, and are now freaking out about how to unfuck the situation. This is a good thing, and a win for freedom.

There will be a new provision buried in some 3,000 page bill designated for education or healthcare, that somehow tries to close that, and it won't take long.

In the meantime, it might be good to find out how to exploit the loophole.  So if you're grandfathered in when it passes, you may keep it.
VexusMalius
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September 17, 2014, 10:06:13 PM
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I wouldn't even call it a loophole. It's totally legal. Trusts are stated nowhere in 922(o). The form 1s for MGs being submitted currently are being disapproved right now, but people are still submitting them to gain representation for an upcoming lawsuit. With any luck, the FOPA and NFA house of cards will burn. Any changes to the current laws require an act of congress, so if the courts decide in our favor (in the same manner as Heller), you're going to see a ton of new full auto trigger packs and whatnot for AR-15s, and who knows what else.

edit: well, that's at least before the congress critters draft up something idiotic.
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September 18, 2014, 01:20:38 AM
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I wouldn't even call it a loophole. It's totally legal. Trusts are stated nowhere in 922(o). The form 1s for MGs being submitted currently are being disapproved right now, but people are still submitting them to gain representation for an upcoming lawsuit. With any luck, the FOPA and NFA house of cards will burn. Any changes to the current laws require an act of congress, so if the courts decide in our favor (in the same manner as Heller), you're going to see a ton of new full auto trigger packs and whatnot for AR-15s, and who knows what else.

edit: well, that's at least before the congress critters draft up something idiotic.

Exactly.

I'd phrase it as "New MGs have always been legal for trusts, but it took both the public and the BATFE 18 years to figure it out."
"
VexusMalius
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January 31, 2015, 02:29:24 PM
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There's been a lot happening with this recently. Lots of motions have been filed, and there have been ATF and DOJ responses to the FOIA requests filed by Mr. Stambulieh and a second attorney.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/254246775/13-1-Brief-in-Opposition-to-Def-Motion-to-Dismiss

Can I get a mod to move this to the politics section?
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