KanoPool since 2014 🐈 - PPLNS and Solo 0.5% fee - Worldwide - 2435 blocks

[rifleman74]

Will the reward be any higher than that of the previous blocks we found quickly? Like the 4 we found over 2 days.

Rewards right now are in the 12-lower 14's range right now. 

[1713506875]

1713506875

[1713506875]

1713506875

[1713506875]

1713506875

[1713506875]

1713506875

[1713506875]

1713506875

[rifleman74]

Rather than quote kano's post to applaud his hard work, I'll just do it here to clean up the thread.  Thanks for the information, really appreciating it.

[-EOS-]

So, I felt the urge to ramble on about Bitcoin again since this block is pissing me off probably as much as everyone else here

Rather than try to edit in and out of the various posts ... here's how mining works

Firstly, mining is exactly the same as rolling a dice ... except for the number of possible solutions!
When you roll a dice, you have a 1 in 6 chance of getting a 6.
There's no progress to getting a 6, ever. You either get a 6 or you don't.
One try = yes or no. No history involved.

With Bitcoin the dice actually has 2^256 sides - yeah that's a pretty big number ~1.579x10^77
And ... there's more than one solution that's valid.
Any "side of the dice" that has enough zeros on the front, and is less than a specified value, is a block.
Of that ~1.579x10^77 number, the current difficulty decides how many sides mean we found a block.

The current difficulty is actually "0x176c2146" which is called "bits" and is 4 bytes of the data we hash.
"0x17" = 23 decimal and 32-23 = 9 bytes of leading zeros (i.e. 9 times '00')
The rest is "0x6c2146"
So, what those 2 numbers mean is that any block hash with a hex value of
H=0x0000000000000000006c21460000000000000000000000000000000000000000 or less is a block

and if you divide H by 0xffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff and divide it again by 0x100000000 (2^32) you will get that network difficulty number:
Nd = 2,603,077,300,218.593
which means that every 2^32 times you roll the Bitcoin dice (i.e. hash a full nonce range) you have a 1 in 2,603,077,300,218.593 chance of finding a block.

... and the reason we divide by 0x100000000 again is that the network difficulty number of 1 represents 2^32 hashes

So ... that's how hashing works, but what are we actually hashing?

I wrote a document about it once, I'll repeat a little bit here:

The structure of a block header is an 80 byte binary data set, defined as follows:
Version                   4 bytes
Previous Block Hash      32 bytes
Merkle Root              32 bytes
Block Time                4 byte Unix Timestamp
Required Hash Difficulty  4 bytes
Hash Nonce                4 bytes

So looking at that we can vary 3 things:
Merkle root, Block Time and Hash Nonce

Normal hashing is to setup everything except the Hash Nonce and then count the Hash Nonce from 0 to 2^32-1 and hash each one.
Hashing the full Nonce range from 0 to 2^32-1 is also called 1 difficulty.

With stratum we can modify the Merkle Root to generate a different block header to hash the Nonce range.
The Merkle Root is a hash tree of the transactions we include in the block, however there's one transaction that we can change with stratum, and that is the coinbase transaction - or the transaction that pays the miner.
In this transaction we only need to make sure that:
1) It's a valid transaction (which is actually pretty random for the coinbase transaction due to the "sig" being allowed to contain almost anything as long as it starts with 'height')
2) It pays out to the expected address we want to receive the generated Bitcoins
3) The amount it pays is correct

So for stratum we put a bunch of other 'nonces' in the coinbase sig, that includes a unique number for each miner, and run the others from 0 up to some specified limit to generate a different coinbase transaction each time, that will generate a unique Merkle Root, to be put in a block header, to be hashed over the full Nonce range.

Thus with the unique number for each miner, and the miner itself following the stratum rules for creating coinbase transactions, the miner can keep generating a large amount of work that isn't expected to run out before the pool sends it new work.

Lastly, every time the miner finds a hash value that is higher than the difficulty specified by the pool, the miner sends the nonce and the "sig" nonces back to the pool.
The pool hashes those nonces with the values it sent to the miner, and thus verifies it's valid, and thus rewards the miner with the difficulty of the work sent to  the miner.

Now one more thing I'll add, that got mention a little while back, is that the miner can't modify the payout address to 'steal' the block.
The reason is that the pool wont get a valid hash of the nonces sent back, so the miner will get no reward. Simple

Thank you!!!  It amazes me that you still have the patience to explain everything as often as you do for us.

[CryptoSol]

Question....

As I understand it this is the longest streak ever without finding a block in this pool.  Is this purely because of bad luck or is it a combination of that and the recent difficultly increase?  

If the latter, is this pool going to be profitable at it's current hash rate as these streaks become more prolonged and extend across additional difficulty increase events?  

[Toll-Booth-Jim]

one Canaan 721 added to the pool from me.  I just gotta find the electricity for my Ebit E9+ once I get my new power supply and i'll have a good 35 TH's running.

[Sphere360]

Nice post Kano. Glad you are sharing the frustration!

[kano]

Question....

As I understand it this is the longest streak ever without finding a block in this pool.  Is this purely because of bad luck or is it a combination of that and the recent difficultly increase?  

If the latter, is this pool going to be profitable at it's current hash rate as these streaks become more prolonged and extend across additional difficulty increase events?  

No, it's not the longest streak ever.
The longest was the first block the pool found, that was also a lucky block (less than 100%)

However, time isn't a number in the calculation of rewards.
Difficulty is the number that matters.

Yes we are over 500%
No it's not the worst ever yet.
The top 2 (worst) are there on the Blocks page at the end of October.

Profitability is the same at most pools.
While we are 'expected' to find multiple blocks per diff change, i.e. multiple blocks per 2 weeks, profitability wont be affected much by changing pools.
You can't predict luck and luck is the biggest factor in PPLNS.

Of course if the pool gets 'too' small then that will noticeable affect Profitability, a fact that certain smaller pools like to hide from their miners, however we've been growing pretty well over the last month ... so that's not currently a concern.

[A.Delaney]

So, I felt the urge to ramble on about Bitcoin again since this block is pissing me off probably as much as everyone else here

Rather than try to edit in and out of the various posts ... here's how mining works

Firstly, mining is exactly the same as rolling a dice ... except for the number of possible solutions!
When you roll a dice, you have a 1 in 6 chance of getting a 6.
There's no progress to getting a 6, ever. You either get a 6 or you don't.
One try = yes or no. No history involved.

With Bitcoin the dice actually has 2^256 sides - yeah that's a pretty big number ~1.579x10^77
And ... there's more than one solution that's valid.
Any "side of the dice" that has enough zeros on the front, and is less than a specified value, is a block.
Of that ~1.579x10^77 number, the current difficulty decides how many sides mean we found a block.

The current difficulty is actually "0x176c2146" which is called "bits" and is 4 bytes of the data we hash.
"0x17" = 23 decimal and 32-23 = 9 bytes of leading zeros (i.e. 9 times '00')
The rest is "0x6c2146"
So, what those 2 numbers mean is that any block hash with a hex value of
H=0x0000000000000000006c21460000000000000000000000000000000000000000 or less is a block


and if you divide H by 0xffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff+1 (~1.579x10^77) and divide it again by 0x100000000 (2^32) you will get that network difficulty number:
Nd = 2,603,077,300,218.593
which means that every 2^32 times you roll the Bitcoin dice (i.e. hash a full nonce range) you have a 1 in 2,603,077,300,218.593 chance of finding a block.

... and the reason we divide by 0x100000000 again is that the network difficulty number of 1 represents 2^32 hashes

So ... that's how hashing works, but what are we actually hashing?

I wrote a document about it once, I'll repeat a little bit here:

The structure of a block header is an 80 byte binary data set, defined as follows:
Version                   4 bytes
Previous Block Hash      32 bytes
Merkle Root              32 bytes
Block Time                4 byte Unix Timestamp
Required Hash Difficulty  4 bytes
Hash Nonce                4 bytes

So looking at that we can vary 3 things:
Merkle root, Block Time and Hash Nonce

Normal hashing is to setup everything except the Hash Nonce and then count the Hash Nonce from 0 to 2^32-1 and hash each one.
Hashing the full Nonce range from 0 to 2^32-1 is also called 1 difficulty.

With stratum we can modify the Merkle Root to generate a different block header to hash the Nonce range.
The Merkle Root is a hash tree of the transactions we include in the block, however there's one transaction that we can change with stratum, and that is the coinbase transaction - or the transaction that pays the miner.
In this transaction we only need to make sure that:
1) It's a valid transaction (which is actually pretty random for the coinbase transaction due to the "sig" being allowed to contain almost anything as long as it starts with 'height')
2) It pays out to the expected address we want to receive the generated Bitcoins
3) The amount it pays is correct

So for stratum we put a bunch of other 'nonces' in the coinbase sig, that includes a unique number for each miner, and run the others from 0 up to some specified limit to generate a different coinbase transaction each time, that will generate a unique Merkle Root, to be put in a block header, to be hashed over the full Nonce range.

Thus with the unique number for each miner, and the miner itself following the stratum rules for creating coinbase transactions, the miner can keep generating a large amount of work that isn't expected to run out before the pool sends it new work.

Lastly, every time the miner finds a hash value that is higher than the difficulty specified by the pool, the miner sends the nonce and the "sig" nonces back to the pool.
The pool hashes those nonces with the values it sent to the miner, and thus verifies it's valid, and thus rewards the miner with the difficulty of the work sent to  the miner.

Now one more thing I'll add, that got mention a little while back, is that the miner can't modify the payout address to 'steal' the block.
The reason is that the pool wont get a valid hash of the nonces sent back, so the miner will get no reward. Simple

And this^^^ is why you run the pool and we just mine on it. lol Dayum.

[minergain.com]

Question....

As I understand it this is the longest streak ever without finding a block in this pool.  Is this purely because of bad luck or is it a combination of that and the recent difficultly increase?  

If the latter, is this pool going to be profitable at it's current hash rate as these streaks become more prolonged and extend across additional difficulty increase events?  

The difficulty and pool hash rate are the biggest impacts.  When we had the 800 and 900% blocks, we temporarily had a hash rate of around 200Ph that helped us get through them in a shorter number of physical days.  Obviously the rewards were less then too.  Remember that we could have a streak of extreme luck where we hit 30 blocks in a week, then the profitability goes crazy through the roof.  It is all in the luck of rolling our trillion sided dice trillions of times per second.  Nobody can guess profitability for sure except that over the long term, it should average out to be near 100% of the difficulty.  And I expect that this bitcoin dive may impact the difficulty a little bit sometime over the coming weeks.  Obviously the hard core miners know this is just a blip and a time to invest more but the newcomers (including me) definitely get nervous.  All I can say is Mine On!

[fjtropepe]

This is like watching paint dry.

More like watching the pool water evaporate out of the pool. Paint dries much quicker than this.

[wavelengthsf]

I'm going to say we hit a block tonight before midnight eastern US time.

I think some of the wings I sacrificed yesterday took time to work their magic.

[rifleman74]

Question....

As I understand it this is the longest streak ever without finding a block in this pool.  Is this purely because of bad luck or is it a combination of that and the recent difficultly increase?  

If the latter, is this pool going to be profitable at it's current hash rate as these streaks become more prolonged and extend across additional difficulty increase events?  

Partly a combo of all.

[DPoS2]

Profitability is the same at most pools.
While we are 'expected' to find multiple blocks per diff change, i.e. multiple blocks per 2 weeks, profitability wont be affected much by changing pools.
You can't predict luck and luck is the biggest factor in PPLNS.

Of course if the pool gets 'too' small then that will noticeable affect Profitability, a fact that certain smaller pools like to hide from their miners, however we've been growing pretty well over the last month ... so that's not currently a concern.

It already got too small as soon as you dropped to less than 20 blocks per month expected.  That's pretty much the minimum amount of chances to avoid what is going on right here.  You can't ignore time frames when you get small and try to relate a diff% in your current state with when you had a much higher expected block %

This place has turned into a social experiment more than a mining operation

[AerialGopher]

Ahh, I don't know why.. but I am going to reboot my 7 S9's.   I did that before, and then the pool found a block..  I Know... its useless step, but I have a hunch...

Some have been up for 29 days.

I will sacrifice my .00001% of shares for this...  then you will see a block will be busted!

[kano]

Profitability is the same at most pools.
While we are 'expected' to find multiple blocks per diff change, i.e. multiple blocks per 2 weeks, profitability wont be affected much by changing pools.
You can't predict luck and luck is the biggest factor in PPLNS.

Of course if the pool gets 'too' small then that will noticeable affect Profitability, a fact that certain smaller pools like to hide from their miners, however we've been growing pretty well over the last month ... so that's not currently a concern.

It already got too small as soon as you dropped to less than 20 blocks per month expected.  That's pretty much the minimum amount of chances to avoid what is going on right here.  You can't ignore time frames when you get small and try to relate a diff% in your current state with when you had a much higher expected block %

This place has turned into a social experiment more than a mining operation

So ... can you back up that comment with maths?

[heartlandmining]

This place has turned into a social experiment more than a mining operation

The social experiments currently taking place at other pools* are the reasons why we're here now.

* Which can certainly be backed up by the mathematics.

[rifleman74]

This place has turned into a social experiment more than a mining operation

The social experiments currently taking place at other pools* are the reasons why we're here now.

* Which can certainly be backed up by the mathematics.

That's going to leave a mark!

[jeecom]

Ahh, I don't know why.. but I am going to reboot my 7 S9's.   I did that before, and then the pool found a block..  I Know... its useless step, but I have a hunch...

Some have been up for 29 days.

I will sacrifice my .00001% of shares for this...  then you will see a block will be busted!

I rebooted mine earlier today for the same reason!

[minergain.com]

I rebooted mine earlier today for the same reason!

Ok, I'm convinced.  Mine are rebooting now too after 25 days..  Here we go!

[AerialGopher]

Ahh, I don't know why.. but I am going to reboot my 7 S9's.   I did that before, and then the pool found a block..  I Know... its useless step, but I have a hunch...

Some have been up for 29 days.

I will sacrifice my .00001% of shares for this...  then you will see a block will be busted!

I rebooted mine earlier today for the same reason!

Might help,  There might be some bad firmware issue that no one has found, and long uptimes cause.

I was more worried about Kano actually working out the math on the downtime of 5 minutes of 7 S9's and the share value not being .00001%  :-)   I just threw a number out...  No need to calculate it - I know you love math... :-) haha