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Author Topic: [~220PH] KanoPool kano.is 0.9% fee 4.8of 10BTC giveaway 🐈 US,UK,JP,NYA,OR,DE,SG  (Read 5179947 times)
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kano
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May 08, 2018, 03:46:23 AM
 #40501

...

Persoanlly, I think there is an issue in some detail yet to be discovered, that after the pool runs for an extended period of time, or so many shares, blocks are not found as near 100% as they should. ( when you use "probability" alone )


Interesting theory...what changes during a mass reboot?  vardiff readjusting for all workers is the one thing I think of, what else?
LOL

Shares (and blocks) are found by miners, not by the pool.

All shares that arrive are first checked/hashed by ckpool, then checked/hashed, from scratch, more accurately by KDB.
That's the only thing that shows if we find a block.

Any share that arrives, and hashes to a value that would produce a block, is displayed by KDB on the web site, no matter what other issues may occur.
(late, orphan, etc etc)

Any suggestion about random events causing blocks is actually caused by faulty memory Smiley
It's called 'Confirmation Bias' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias or in the more severe cases Cognitive Bias https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_bias

It's typical to remember outstanding events and not notice the rest.

Pool: https://kano.is Here on Bitcointalk: Forum BTC: 1KanoPb8cKYqNrswjaA8cRDk4FAS9eDMLU
FreeNode IRC: irc.freenode.net channel #kano.is Majority developer of the ckpool code
Help keep Bitcoin secure by mining on pools with full block verification on all blocks - and NO empty blocks!
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porepete
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May 08, 2018, 04:01:13 AM
 #40502

...

Persoanlly, I think there is an issue in some detail yet to be discovered, that after the pool runs for an extended period of time, or so many shares, blocks are not found as near 100% as they should. ( when you use "probability" alone )


Interesting theory...what changes during a mass reboot?  vardiff readjusting for all workers is the one thing I think of, what else?
LOL

Shares (and blocks) are found by miners, not by the pool.

All shares that arrive are first checked/hashed by ckpool, then checked/hashed, from scratch, more accurately by KDB.
That's the only thing that shows if we find a block.

Any share that arrives, and hashes to a value that would produce a block, is displayed by KDB on the web site, no matter what other issues may occur.
(late, orphan, etc etc)

Any suggestion about random events causing blocks is actually caused by faulty memory Smiley
It's called 'Confirmation Bias' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias or in the more severe cases Cognitive Bias https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_bias

It's typical to remember outstanding events and not notice the rest.

HOW IN THE UNIVERSE DID YOU CREATE A BITCOIN ADDRESS WITH KANO AFTER THE ONE?Huh?
I want one with panagiporets after the 1
Steamtyme
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May 08, 2018, 04:01:48 AM
 #40503

*snip*

I was waiting fort that response. I'm pretty sure I remember that same post by you in the last few months, probably close to verbatim.

Mine on

AerialGopher
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May 08, 2018, 04:04:37 AM
 #40504

so, lets prove me wrong, re-start the pool and lets see what happens! :-)
VRobb
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May 08, 2018, 04:05:43 AM
 #40505

<snip>

HOW IN THE UNIVERSE DID YOU CREATE A BITCOIN ADDRESS WITH KANO AFTER THE ONE?Huh?
I want one with panagiporets after the 1
Search vanitygen.  Though you might be disappointed in trying to make one as long as you want.

I don't believe in superstition because it's bad luck
In Hotels, I prefer the 13thF1oor6CAwyzyxXPNnRvu3nhhYeqZdc
These aren't the Droids you're looking for: S5 & S7 (Sold), R4B2, R4B4 (RIP),S9-13.5 & S9r-11.5
porepete
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May 08, 2018, 04:08:47 AM
 #40506

<snip>

HOW IN THE UNIVERSE DID YOU CREATE A BITCOIN ADDRESS WITH KANO AFTER THE ONE?Huh?
I want one with panagiporets after the 1
Search vanitygen.  Though you might be disappointed in trying to make one as long as you want.


What if I use my whole name which is Panagiotis Poretsanos?I know what you are thinking, those greeks have huge weird names.
VRobb
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May 08, 2018, 04:10:01 AM
 #40507

Search vanitygen and try it.

I don't believe in superstition because it's bad luck
In Hotels, I prefer the 13thF1oor6CAwyzyxXPNnRvu3nhhYeqZdc
These aren't the Droids you're looking for: S5 & S7 (Sold), R4B2, R4B4 (RIP),S9-13.5 & S9r-11.5
DarkStar_
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May 08, 2018, 04:13:16 AM
 #40508

<snip>

HOW IN THE UNIVERSE DID YOU CREATE A BITCOIN ADDRESS WITH KANO AFTER THE ONE?Huh?
I want one with panagiporets after the 1
Search vanitygen.  Though you might be disappointed in trying to make one as long as you want.


What if I use my whole name which is Panagiotis Poretsanos?I know what you are thinking, those greeks have huge weird names.

I don't have a exact answer right now, but on consumer grade hardware, that would take at least a century, and probably longer.

I have 1DarkStrRagcDjWtsPGxkav4WG3poLXzDS which took a few days to find, and the difficulty grows exponentially.

(Sorry for the OT)

Nick_01
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May 08, 2018, 04:15:08 AM
 #40509

so, lets prove me wrong, re-start the pool and lets see what happens! :-)

Do you want to say that Kano is not interested in finding blocks by his pool? where is the logic?  Shocked
kano
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May 08, 2018, 04:29:13 AM
 #40510

so, lets prove me wrong, re-start the pool and lets see what happens! :-)

Do you want to say that Kano is not interested in finding blocks by his pool? where is the logic?  Shocked
Indeed - I only restart the pool when it needs to be.
Due to: resource issues, changes, or it restarts itself if it crashes.

Restarting KDB has no effect at all on your work/block finding data unless it cascades into a pool restart also
(which is rare but not 'never')

Yes indeed it is fun to think that restarts are helpful, but when it degenerates in to comments about code problems ... well ... OK ... fun gone Tongue

Pool: https://kano.is Here on Bitcointalk: Forum BTC: 1KanoPb8cKYqNrswjaA8cRDk4FAS9eDMLU
FreeNode IRC: irc.freenode.net channel #kano.is Majority developer of the ckpool code
Help keep Bitcoin secure by mining on pools with full block verification on all blocks - and NO empty blocks!
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May 08, 2018, 05:50:56 AM
 #40511

I need my miners to find their first block, to believe that blocks really exist!!!
AerialGopher
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May 08, 2018, 05:56:35 AM
 #40512

so, lets prove me wrong, re-start the pool and lets see what happens! :-)

Do you want to say that Kano is not interested in finding blocks by his pool? where is the logic?  Shocked
Indeed - I only restart the pool when it needs to be.
Due to: resource issues, changes, or it restarts itself if it crashes.

Restarting KDB has no effect at all on your work/block finding data unless it cascades into a pool restart also
(which is rare but not 'never')

Yes indeed it is fun to think that restarts are helpful, but when it degenerates in to comments about code problems ... well ... OK ... fun gone Tongue

I am not doubting your ability's at all.  In fact I know you know what you are doing.  I just made a comment that it has happened a few times that these long spells have been fixed after a pool restart.  Yes, I may notice that moreso than when there was no restart.  

I understand the miners do the work, but the work is issued to them by the pool.  If the work issued or the returned work is not generated properly, or logged properly, or some small thing is happening that is not noticed which yields bad work from miners, or not even that, just missed or mis-handled work of a miner.  Maybe it happens, maybe there is some set of circumstances that occur that is not "visible"  

Look at it this way...  and I know this has happened to me with other stuff.  You write your code, you have gone through it more often than you can remember.  If your looking at it and expecting it to be correct, you might gloss over something.  I do not mean any disrespect by any means.   I have had people look over stuff I have done, and seen something, and its like.. oh yeah... opps.  If there was an issue, i am sure you will find it, or have found other things as you have mentioned.  Maybe the issue is not even with code, it could be something else.  Bad transactions that are put into a block that effect the results, but hard to know which transactions are bad.  And when I say bad, I do not mean one without proper funds, I mean with some other thing someone discovered that can corrupt data etc...


A good example is... remember when android phones could be hacked by just sending it an a particular SMS message.  No one thought that would ever be the case, but somebody found out how to do it.

At the end of the day, Bitcoin has had alot of people doing alot of bad things to gain the advantage.  

So, if I might be noticing these events, lets start a log....  well, actually you probably have a log of re-starts..  look back and find the dates and see if just preceeding it there was low block finds, and then more blocks found just after.  maybe there is another event that happens that causes it, if it is even there.  Maybe there is a set of circumstances that make it happen that isn't discovered yet.

Again, I am not trying to be disrespectful, I know that you are perfect if your work and knowledge.  you understand the inner workings alot better than any of us.  I am just saying it might be worth looking at it from a different angle. ( Again, not code related, but a set of circumstances, internal or external.  Maybe a bad miner like the one you had sending invalid shares for over 2 months that you found. You said that it didnt send one valid share for that 2 or 2+ months, and that it doesnt affect the pool.  So if someone had knowledge to modify miner code to make it send back all invalids, they probably know that this would not harm the pool.  So why are they doing it?  There has to be more to that one. )
swanny88
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May 08, 2018, 06:03:48 AM
 #40513



Bitcoin mining is a lot like playing cards for tons of Money.  Sometimes you run good and sometimes you run bad.



I have a feeling we are going to have a couple of 4 block days in the month of May right after we crack this 300 percent block.



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May 08, 2018, 07:10:23 AM
 #40514

Yeah the ckpool hash rates are not really a point in time thing ... so relying on them to detect problems isn't highly reliable.

If you have a lot of miners, and don't have any reliable direct miner monitoring software, it's best to look at the workers page once in a while
and then click on the 2 different sortings at the top "Last Share" and "Hash Rate" and see what's at the bottom.

You can also use the "Shift Graph" to see how a single worker is performing over time.

I have successfully used the shift graph to diagnose problems w/my farm.
Using the graphs needs manual check of the web site. I guess there is a way to automate it as well, but it's definitely beyond my bash scripting skills. Smiley

I think I will stick with checking the w_lastshare every 5-10 minutes, and will also send myself the hashrate stats once or twice a day. This should be good enough for my needs. In case of any issues, further investigations will be done manually anyway (that's when I will check the pool website, miner pages, etc.)

Thanks!


BTW, is there a way to calculate the difficulty of the last block found by the pool based on the data provided by the API?
drukyulgoods
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May 08, 2018, 08:07:56 AM
 #40515

so, lets prove me wrong, re-start the pool and lets see what happens! :-)

Do you want to say that Kano is not interested in finding blocks by his pool? where is the logic?  Shocked
Indeed - I only restart the pool when it needs to be.
Due to: resource issues, changes, or it restarts itself if it crashes.

Restarting KDB has no effect at all on your work/block finding data unless it cascades into a pool restart also
(which is rare but not 'never')

Yes indeed it is fun to think that restarts are helpful, but when it degenerates in to comments about code problems ... well ... OK ... fun gone Tongue

I am not doubting your ability's at all.  In fact I know you know what you are doing.  I just made a comment that it has happened a few times that these long spells have been fixed after a pool restart.  Yes, I may notice that moreso than when there was no restart.  

I understand the miners do the work, but the work is issued to them by the pool.  If the work issued or the returned work is not generated properly, or logged properly, or some small thing is happening that is not noticed which yields bad work from miners, or not even that, just missed or mis-handled work of a miner.  Maybe it happens, maybe there is some set of circumstances that occur that is not "visible"  

Look at it this way...  and I know this has happened to me with other stuff.  You write your code, you have gone through it more often than you can remember.  If your looking at it and expecting it to be correct, you might gloss over something.  I do not mean any disrespect by any means.   I have had people look over stuff I have done, and seen something, and its like.. oh yeah... opps.  If there was an issue, i am sure you will find it, or have found other things as you have mentioned.  Maybe the issue is not even with code, it could be something else.  Bad transactions that are put into a block that effect the results, but hard to know which transactions are bad.  And when I say bad, I do not mean one without proper funds, I mean with some other thing someone discovered that can corrupt data etc...


A good example is... remember when android phones could be hacked by just sending it an a particular SMS message.  No one thought that would ever be the case, but somebody found out how to do it.

At the end of the day, Bitcoin has had alot of people doing alot of bad things to gain the advantage.  

So, if I might be noticing these events, lets start a log....  well, actually you probably have a log of re-starts..  look back and find the dates and see if just preceeding it there was low block finds, and then more blocks found just after.  maybe there is another event that happens that causes it, if it is even there.  Maybe there is a set of circumstances that make it happen that isn't discovered yet.

Again, I am not trying to be disrespectful, I know that you are perfect if your work and knowledge.  you understand the inner workings alot better than any of us.  I am just saying it might be worth looking at it from a different angle. ( Again, not code related, but a set of circumstances, internal or external.  Maybe a bad miner like the one you had sending invalid shares for over 2 months that you found. You said that it didnt send one valid share for that 2 or 2+ months, and that it doesnt affect the pool.  So if someone had knowledge to modify miner code to make it send back all invalids, they probably know that this would not harm the pool.  So why are they doing it?  There has to be more to that one. )


Aerial,
Drukyulgoods here. I’m coming up on my 3rd year in Kano’s (pronounced: KaahNo’s) fine pool. I am a lurker on the forum but every now and again when things matter, I post something.

Your fine points are noted but speaking from history they might need to be revaluated. Restarting the pool is irrelevant to the pool cracking a tough block. Period. Primarily it is luck, followed by diff values, followed by the pool size. Or for an inside joke, please sacrifice a chicken or wish for luck from your favorite avatar.

It is not the code nor the pool infrastructure. You sit mining in a pool with ?TH (I didn’t look) but with a pool owner who not only contributes immensely to the code internals of our endeavors but has from day one been dedicated to the pool members offering a more than fair return while providing total support and full communication.   

I’m not a big miner (40TH max). After losing countless funds going with AntPoo, Sluck, and renting machines from whomever, I found Kano’s pool and gave it a try. Thankfully I never looked back and the % of my long term returns has significantally outpaced my IRA within the same timeframe. I’ve done great! Enduring the horrible droughts and celebrating the block after block after block hits.

For my part, I went to post #1 and spent a month read every single one of the posts and continue it to this day. Something that I hardly suggest to all.

Hang in there as I have Aerial. Or jump. It’s your choice but it is Not Kano’s code.

Respectfully Submitted $0.02,
Drukyulgoods
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May 08, 2018, 08:22:44 AM
 #40516

Yeah the ckpool hash rates are not really a point in time thing ... so relying on them to detect problems isn't highly reliable.

If you have a lot of miners, and don't have any reliable direct miner monitoring software, it's best to look at the workers page once in a while
and then click on the 2 different sortings at the top "Last Share" and "Hash Rate" and see what's at the bottom.

You can also use the "Shift Graph" to see how a single worker is performing over time.

I have successfully used the shift graph to diagnose problems w/my farm.
Using the graphs needs manual check of the web site. I guess there is a way to automate it as well, but it's definitely beyond my bash scripting skills. Smiley

I think I will stick with checking the w_lastshare every 5-10 minutes, and will also send myself the hashrate stats once or twice a day. This should be good enough for my needs. In case of any issues, further investigations will be done manually anyway (that's when I will check the pool website, miner pages, etc.)

Thanks!


BTW, is there a way to calculate the difficulty of the last block found by the pool based on the data provided by the API?
No, the API's aim is to provide current data - it does name the last pool and network block, but to be able to calculate other current information since either of those.
The web site shows history.

Pool: https://kano.is Here on Bitcointalk: Forum BTC: 1KanoPb8cKYqNrswjaA8cRDk4FAS9eDMLU
FreeNode IRC: irc.freenode.net channel #kano.is Majority developer of the ckpool code
Help keep Bitcoin secure by mining on pools with full block verification on all blocks - and NO empty blocks!
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May 08, 2018, 08:36:41 AM
 #40517

These long blocks certainly put a strain on people!!! C'mon BTClock!!! Ha!!!


Click these links to learn some truth about Big Corporate mining pools stealing your money and centralizing BTCitcoin!!!
Help support the BTCitcoin community!!! Mine your BTCitcoin at a non-Corporate pool!!! BTC: 1ShazamjsPnpWDNnk3n2tAiKGMdXaSjay
I mine BTCitcoin at a non-Corporate pool with no hidden fees, no empty BTClocks: Kano Pool   ■ get Kano Pool signature banners here ■
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May 08, 2018, 11:38:44 AM
 #40518

Luck is Luck. Two blocks >300% sucks but the name of the game is the same, it all washes out in the end. Mine On With Kano-San!! Come on BLOCK!!!
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May 08, 2018, 01:04:46 PM
 #40519

These long blocks certainly put a strain on people!!! C'mon BTClock!!! Ha!!!

https://i.imgur.com/0ItEqIe.gif


 Grin Cheesy Grin Cheesy Grin Cheesy
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May 08, 2018, 01:10:07 PM
 #40520

When we crack the next block, we can all celebrate together!
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