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Author Topic: [75+PH] KanoPool kano.is 0.9% PPLNS US,DE,SG,JP,NL,NYA 🐈  (Read 4044752 times)
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lowbander80
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November 24, 2014, 08:00:09 AM
 #541

Hi do you know when a  miner looses internet connection for lets say 2mins
what is happening with the work at a current block,
all previous hours are lost or not?Huh or its keeps them until
communicate again with the pool

SMARTPLAYTECH ..
     W I N - W I N  R O U L E T T E     R E L E A S E  J U N E   0 5     
  D I S C U S S    ◎    G E T  2 0 0  F R E E  S P I N S    ◎    I N V E S T   
.
[/center]
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yxt
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November 24, 2014, 10:24:27 AM
 #542

Moved the offending SP30 to another pool and after 50 mins (acceptable time to settle down) it reports 4.5+THs.  Huh
There's nothing unique about the work at ckpool that would make it hash slower. Give it much longer as I find many SP30s degrade over hours/days in hashrate.

pointed a sp30 here to test
The reported hashrate is hopping between a low value ~3.75 and ~real hashing speed.
What timeframe is used to estimate the miner Hash Rate?

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November 24, 2014, 01:22:51 PM
 #543

Hi do you know when a  miner looses internet connection for lets say 2mins
what is happening with the work at a current block,
all previous hours are lost or not?Huh or its keeps them until
communicate again with the pool
You don't work on 'a' block as such.
You work on the current network block which changes on average about every 10 minutes or less.
The work we give you is actually updated every 30s to new work with new transactions in it.

However, your PoW (Proof or Work) is the shares you submit until we find a block.
All shares you submit, that are valid at the time you submit them, are remembered.
(we also remember the invalid ones)

When someone finds a block, we look back from that winning share back through all shares submitted by everyone back N diff shares.
It doesn't matter what work or block you were working on for the shares, as long as they were valid shares when submitted.
Any PoW shares you have submitted inside that range are included in your payout calculation.

Pool: https://kano.is Here on Bitcointalk: Forum BTC: 1KanoPb8cKYqNrswjaA8cRDk4FAS9eDMLU
FreeNode IRC: irc.freenode.net channel #kano.is
Help keep Bitcoin secure by mining on pools with full block verification on all blocks - and NO empty blocks!
hurricandave
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November 24, 2014, 02:32:24 PM
 #544

So when we finally find our next block is the color of the Diff% block going to be dried blood brown?
lowbander80
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November 24, 2014, 04:31:58 PM
 #545

Hi do you know when a  miner looses internet connection for lets say 2mins
what is happening with the work at a current block,
all previous hours are lost or not?Huh or its keeps them until
communicate again with the pool
You don't work on 'a' block as such.
You work on the current network block which changes on average about every 10 minutes or less.
The work we give you is actually updated every 30s to new work with new transactions in it.

However, your PoW (Proof or Work) is the shares you submit until we find a block.
All shares you submit, that are valid at the time you submit them, are remembered.
(we also remember the invalid ones)

When someone finds a block, we look back from that winning share back through all shares submitted by everyone back N diff shares.
It doesn't matter what work or block you were working on for the shares, as long as they were valid shares when submitted.
Any PoW shares you have submitted inside that range are included in your payout calculation.

So this means that even if the miner looses internet connection or power it does not mean much as long as the time
interuption is small,  or just needs a reboot am I thinking write???

SMARTPLAYTECH ..
     W I N - W I N  R O U L E T T E     R E L E A S E  J U N E   0 5     
  D I S C U S S    ◎    G E T  2 0 0  F R E E  S P I N S    ◎    I N V E S T   
.
[/center]
xZork
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November 24, 2014, 06:42:09 PM
 #546

I've been mining to a BTC address without logging in. Can I register an account and have the previous work tied to the account or should I just wait until we find a block?

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November 24, 2014, 07:10:35 PM
 #547

Hi do you know when a  miner looses internet connection for lets say 2mins
what is happening with the work at a current block,
all previous hours are lost or not?Huh or its keeps them until
communicate again with the pool
You don't work on 'a' block as such.
You work on the current network block which changes on average about every 10 minutes or less.
The work we give you is actually updated every 30s to new work with new transactions in it.

However, your PoW (Proof or Work) is the shares you submit until we find a block.
All shares you submit, that are valid at the time you submit them, are remembered.
(we also remember the invalid ones)

When someone finds a block, we look back from that winning share back through all shares submitted by everyone back N diff shares.
It doesn't matter what work or block you were working on for the shares, as long as they were valid shares when submitted.
Any PoW shares you have submitted inside that range are included in your payout calculation.

So this means that even if the miner looses internet connection or power it does not mean much as long as the time
interuption is small,  or just needs a reboot am I thinking write???

Yes, as long as the interruption is small, the losses will be minimal (this is assuming that the pool doesn't get insanely lucky in the brief interval that you are offline. If somehow, the pool found a block the second that you went offline, and then the pool found another few blocks just within the amount of time it took you to reboot, you would be paid for that first block that the pool found, but not necessarily the next few that you did not contribute any work towards,  but this scenario is HIGHLY unlikely, assuming you are only offline for the amount of time it takes to reboot your miner)

ck or kano, please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, as I know that the N in PPLNS is not exactly the current difficulty, rather the current difficulty "plus a bit", as kano has described previously.
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November 24, 2014, 07:44:58 PM
 #548

So when we finally find our next block is the color of the Diff% block going to be dried blood brown?
Smiley

Bright red.
The longer the block > 100%, the brighter the red.
Brightest red (#ff0000) is at 562%
After 562% it stays that bright.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=789369.msg9492584;topicseen#msg9492584

Though I changed the code a little after that coz at least some versions of IE don't like 3 digit colours:
https://bitbucket.org/ckolivas/ckpool/src/0c9ac579e5c812a3b413377fac8179c6b7f52019/pool/page_blocks.php?at=master#cl-3

Pool: https://kano.is Here on Bitcointalk: Forum BTC: 1KanoPb8cKYqNrswjaA8cRDk4FAS9eDMLU
FreeNode IRC: irc.freenode.net channel #kano.is
Help keep Bitcoin secure by mining on pools with full block verification on all blocks - and NO empty blocks!
xZork
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November 24, 2014, 07:46:22 PM
 #549

Throwing everything I have at the pool now...

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November 24, 2014, 07:51:30 PM
 #550

I've been mining to a BTC address without logging in. Can I register an account and have the previous work tied to the account or should I just wait until we find a block?
You can't join accounts.
The payout for an anonymous account only goes to the address mined at.
If you create a username account on the web site, paying out to the same address, the payout will of course be joined.
(but the stats wont be joined)

Pool: https://kano.is Here on Bitcointalk: Forum BTC: 1KanoPb8cKYqNrswjaA8cRDk4FAS9eDMLU
FreeNode IRC: irc.freenode.net channel #kano.is
Help keep Bitcoin secure by mining on pools with full block verification on all blocks - and NO empty blocks!
xZork
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November 24, 2014, 07:57:31 PM
 #551

I've been mining to a BTC address without logging in. Can I register an account and have the previous work tied to the account or should I just wait until we find a block?
You can't join accounts.
The payout for an anonymous account only goes to the address mined at.
If you create a username account on the web site, paying out to the same address, the payout will of course be joined.
(but the stats wont be joined)

I didn't think so, thanks for the reply! I will wait until we get a block and switch over.

kano
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November 24, 2014, 08:08:20 PM
 #552

Hi do you know when a  miner looses internet connection for lets say 2mins
what is happening with the work at a current block,
all previous hours are lost or not?Huh or its keeps them until
communicate again with the pool
You don't work on 'a' block as such.
You work on the current network block which changes on average about every 10 minutes or less.
The work we give you is actually updated every 30s to new work with new transactions in it.

However, your PoW (Proof or Work) is the shares you submit until we find a block.
All shares you submit, that are valid at the time you submit them, are remembered.
(we also remember the invalid ones)

When someone finds a block, we look back from that winning share back through all shares submitted by everyone back N diff shares.
It doesn't matter what work or block you were working on for the shares, as long as they were valid shares when submitted.
Any PoW shares you have submitted inside that range are included in your payout calculation.

So this means that even if the miner looses internet connection or power it does not mean much as long as the time
interuption is small,  or just needs a reboot am I thinking write???

Since the N we use is the network difficulty when the block is found, the effect of a small outage should be minor.

To see that as an example:
When a block is found, we look at the last N (plus a bit) diff shares (currently ~40 billion)
That represents 100% of N - and if the pool was always 1400THs that's ~1.43 days (~1day 10hrs 20min - or ~34.34 hours)

So if over those 1.43 days before the block was found, you mined the same hash rate for all but 1 hour, you would be paid: 100 - (1/34.34)% or 97.1%

These numbers, of course, assume the pool hash rate didn't change and your hash rate didn't change for all but that 1 hour.
Of course the hash rate changes a lot - so they are an approximation.
But you can see that a small outage, even up to a total of an hour, has only a minor affect on your miner with the pool at ~1400 THs Smiley

Pool: https://kano.is Here on Bitcointalk: Forum BTC: 1KanoPb8cKYqNrswjaA8cRDk4FAS9eDMLU
FreeNode IRC: irc.freenode.net channel #kano.is
Help keep Bitcoin secure by mining on pools with full block verification on all blocks - and NO empty blocks!
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November 24, 2014, 08:14:38 PM
 #553

Hey kano.... you still want to do a payout comparative test? Hehe

PPS (Pay Per Share) Bitcoin Mining Pool
0% Fees + 1% Bonus + Merged Mining (NMC - Namecoin) +Hourly Payouts
https://mining.bitcoinaffiliatenetwork.com
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November 24, 2014, 08:33:24 PM
 #554

He kano.... you still want to do a payout comparative test? Hehe
Yep, it's still above 100% PPS, due to luck, since the pool started.

Anyone who joined since block 330642 started, has of course not had that luck.

The number at the bottom of the blocks page shows the average % of a block for all blocks found, so 55.09% up to when block 330642 was found, means the pool has found 1.8 times the number of expected blocks and we pay out 99.1% of every block (+ txn fees) the pool finds, to the miners.
https://www.kano.is/index.php?k=pblocks

Of course, when the next block is found, the 55.09% number will go up, and the 1.8 times number will go down.

The average expected payout per block on any PPLNS pool over a long period of time, is of course the payout % of a block the pool pays - which is 99.1% here.
But of course, since we include txn fees in the payout, that is a bit higher than the 99.1% expected.

Pool: https://kano.is Here on Bitcointalk: Forum BTC: 1KanoPb8cKYqNrswjaA8cRDk4FAS9eDMLU
FreeNode IRC: irc.freenode.net channel #kano.is
Help keep Bitcoin secure by mining on pools with full block verification on all blocks - and NO empty blocks!
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November 24, 2014, 08:39:55 PM
 #555

He kano.... you still want to do a payout comparative test? Hehe
Yep, it's still above 100% PPS, due to luck, since the pool started.

Anyone who joined since block 330642 started, has of course not had that luck.

The number at the bottom of the blocks page shows the average % of a block for all blocks found, so 55.09% up to when block 330642 was found, means the pool has found 1.8 times the number of expected blocks and we pay out 99.1% of every block (+ txn fees) the pool finds, to the miners.
https://www.kano.is/index.php?k=pblocks

Of course, when the next block is found, the 55.09% number will go up, and the 1.8 times number will go down.

The average expected payout per block on any PPLNS pool over a long period of time, is of course the payout % of a block the pool pays - which is 99.1% here.
But of course, since we include txn fees in the payout, that is a bit higher than the 99.1% expected.


Ok... I will provide the hardware and give you remote access.... we can play with 10th or so.... we can track accuracy of share accounting and actual payment amounts. I'm at the airport waiting to catch a flight to visit coinbase so it'll be a day or two before I can set it up.... Smiley

PPS (Pay Per Share) Bitcoin Mining Pool
0% Fees + 1% Bonus + Merged Mining (NMC - Namecoin) +Hourly Payouts
https://mining.bitcoinaffiliatenetwork.com
kano
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November 24, 2014, 09:42:09 PM
 #556

He kano.... you still want to do a payout comparative test? Hehe
Yep, it's still above 100% PPS, due to luck, since the pool started.

Anyone who joined since block 330642 started, has of course not had that luck.

The number at the bottom of the blocks page shows the average % of a block for all blocks found, so 55.09% up to when block 330642 was found, means the pool has found 1.8 times the number of expected blocks and we pay out 99.1% of every block (+ txn fees) the pool finds, to the miners.
https://www.kano.is/index.php?k=pblocks

Of course, when the next block is found, the 55.09% number will go up, and the 1.8 times number will go down.

The average expected payout per block on any PPLNS pool over a long period of time, is of course the payout % of a block the pool pays - which is 99.1% here.
But of course, since we include txn fees in the payout, that is a bit higher than the 99.1% expected.


Ok... I will provide the hardware and give you remote access.... we can play with 10th or so.... we can track accuracy of share accounting and actual payment amounts. I'm at the airport waiting to catch a flight to visit coinbase so it'll be a day or two before I can set it up.... Smiley
You clearly missed the technical details of what I said Smiley
(which you should know as a pool operator ...)

Comparing PPS vs PPLNS over a short time frame is pointless.

PPLNS payout over a short time frame is dependent upon the pool's luck and the payout %
PPS payout over a short time frame is simply just the PPS amount being paid, which is of course higher on your pool at the moment than the expected payout here.
I have even stated this in your thread (while arguing with that idiot in your thread that you condone his lies. I don't care if people are posting for or against my pool, if they post bullshit in here, I'll either delete their post or reply correcting it)
If we are lucky here, then the payout will be higher, if not, then the payout wont be higher.
Over a short time frame that is indeed purely based on luck.
It is amusing that you wait until the pool has it's worst luck to make this post.
What is even more amusing is that the pool's current luck makes no difference, since luck is a measure of the past, not the future.

Over a long time frame, the expected payout here is 99.1%
Over a long time frame, the expected payout on your pool is ?%, since you are currently running it at a loss, the question is only how long you can/will keep that up.
There are a few factors in your loss that you may or may not have made clear:
1) You list 26 servers as the pool - that's a lot of hardware to pay for.
2) You mine a large % of your pool - here's where you may not realise something about myself and ckolivas Smiley
We've dealt with a number of farms of varying sizes, including well above the size of yours Smiley
It's a very slim margin running a farm, if you manage to get the hardware at better than advertised cost.
Most farms who invest in a lot of hardware now will not make a profit.
Paying out 110% to 1PHs of users means losing ~1.25BTC per day in payouts, at current difficulty.
Multiply or divide that by the hash rate of the users you are paying 110%
3) It's a fact that running a PPS pool will require a higher fee than a PPLNS pool, to remain profitable and reduce the risk due to block finding luck - that same luck my pool has going up and down, so does every other pool including yours. The effect of that luck should be obvious to you.
4) The risks to you, not the miners, for a pool using PPS, mean no pool should run PPS unless they charge a high fee. Block withholding on any pool is a problem, but on a PPS pool it means the pool itself loses ~25BTC every time it happens, that the pool is already paying out to it's miners, and will need to source that ~25BTC from 'somewhere' else.
At the moment, on the pool here, we know the majority of the hash rate so we can expect that the majority of the hash rate wont do that.

Pool: https://kano.is Here on Bitcointalk: Forum BTC: 1KanoPb8cKYqNrswjaA8cRDk4FAS9eDMLU
FreeNode IRC: irc.freenode.net channel #kano.is
Help keep Bitcoin secure by mining on pools with full block verification on all blocks - and NO empty blocks!
lowbander80
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November 25, 2014, 10:31:03 AM
 #557

Thanks for the clarifications not anyone can take the time to explain. Specially for not
native english users some terms are difficult to understand...like when you see a block solved there is also
a map showing it in a mappoint what does this mean???
I will learn this sometime I guess...

Pool luck sucks these last few 6 days...
Lost the fast bus........but since others with 450 Ths can wait me with my 1ths will do also.!!!

SMARTPLAYTECH ..
     W I N - W I N  R O U L E T T E     R E L E A S E  J U N E   0 5     
  D I S C U S S    ◎    G E T  2 0 0  F R E E  S P I N S    ◎    I N V E S T   
.
[/center]
hurricandave
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November 25, 2014, 11:17:05 AM
 #558

Shhhh.... I saw that. Roll Eyes
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November 25, 2014, 11:34:16 AM
 #559

Was there some sort of blip?  I see my miner failed over to the godsquad pool for a few minutes, and came back to CKPool, but is showing 0GH.  As are a load of other people.
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November 25, 2014, 11:37:47 AM
 #560

Its on its third or fourth restart, I was trying to benchmark CK's new 4.8.0 build and it's all fubard now.
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