underachieved
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February 08, 2016, 08:55:03 PM |
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However, for me to use what little influence I have right now can someone maybe give me an higher level overview of how a ckpool works vs say a larger pool like antpool. I read the thread on ckpool last night and it was a bit over my head. I am trying to learn more of the of the inter workings.
Welcome. The ckpool thread itself is about the software behind how kano.is and solo.ckpool.org work and not something regular miners are expected to understand. There really is nothing different fundamentally about how antpool and kano.is work, as ultimately they're both PPLNS stratum mining pools for bitcoin. The main difference is that we wrote the software we use ourselves from the ground up to be ultra-scalable and efficient to minimise any chance of lost work and orphan blocks. Because of the design of the software, we're also able to include more transactions than any other pool without it affecting our performance - and that means more transaction fees on average for every block solved, and transaction fees are included in miner's rewards. Additionally, unlike every one of the larger 3 pools, we do not do SPV mining meaning we always validate all blocks before working on new blocks - which mean there is zero chance of us working on a broken fork of the blockchain (which the larger pools were guilty of doing last year). Whatever fees that may seem to be lesser on other pools, and whatever alleged extra rewards they get from merged mining shitcoins are greatly offset by the losses incurred by the software design/set up/policy/maintenance of the rest of the pool design. Payouts here come when blocks mature (101 confirmations) and the entire block reward is completely distributed on each block solve meaning the pool never behaves like a "bank", storing miners' bitcoins - and the associated risk that come with behaving like a bank are abolished. In the future we may be doing payouts once a day to consolidate payouts but that will only happen if we become large enough that blocks are more frequent than they currently are. We also guarantee that should we ever get very large, we will create disincentives to take more miners to prevent our size from ever being a risk to bitcoin's decentralisation - 10% is our cut off. Kano also provides personalised support on this forum instead of no support or facebook messages. Kano being the main pool admin means you have someone who sets alarms to literally wake him up 24/7 should there be any issues to work on them as soon as possible. Finally, Kano and I are the software developers responsible for cgminer which in some form or other powers more than 90% of the network, and we continue to develop mining and pool software and contribute it all back to the community. That needs a stickie~
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jonnybravo0311
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1344
Merit: 1024
Mine at Jonny's Pool
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February 08, 2016, 09:02:18 PM |
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There really is nothing different fundamentally about how antpool and kano.is work, as ultimately they're both PPLNS stratum mining pools for bitcoin.
I'd argue that the only thing similar between ckpool and ant is that both are attempting to solve blocks and that one incarnation of ant is PPLNS. Everything else is indeed fundamentally different... and you even go on in the rest of your excellent explanation describing the huge fundamental differences between the two pools
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Jonny's Pool - Mine with us and help us grow! Support a pool that supports Bitcoin, not a hardware manufacturer's pockets! No SPV cheats. No empty blocks.
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kano (OP)
Legendary
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Activity: 4592
Merit: 1851
Linux since 1997 RedHat 4
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February 08, 2016, 09:14:28 PM |
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common kano work your magic were at 21 hours and no blocks found
I finally decided to move my farm over from antpool to kano and apparently I stepped into a 23 hour test of patience. Ok so seriously I have pushed antpool on my youtube channel but as antpool keeps growing the logic to support the smaller pools makes more sense. That being said we all still need to make money so if I am in, I would like to share this with my subscribers. However, for me to use what little influence I have right now can someone maybe give me an higher level overview of how a ckpool works vs say a larger pool like antpool. I read the thread on ckpool last night and it was a bit over my head. I am trying to learn more of the of the inter workings. Thanks in advance for your help! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwoLtAoTpf1e6pRqpwNI54A?view_as=public Heh -ck beat me to it, but anyway, here's my TL;DR; version Well some important points, in no particular order, are: 1) We never mine empty blocks if transactions are available (so far never made an empty block) 2) We've averaged the highest block sizes of all pools: Solo first, Kano.is second. http://data.bitcoinity.org/bitcoin/blocksize/30d?t=lScroll down to "Blocks size by mining pool" and click on "Average size" twice 3) CKPool is written in C and -ck is a linux kernel developer who clearly knows about writing performance critical code. (the software used in most miners mining BTC is cgminer, the performance/management code written almost entirely by -ck) 4) CKPool and CKDB are two separate parts of the pool that makes sure that the mining and reporting are separate and somewhat independent This means that the priorities of the two parts of the pool are met separately and do not conflict with each other. 5) We have VERY low orphan rates due to how fast the code runs and how well we've setup our block distribution 6) We run custom bitcoind, optimised for performance, no blacklisting, no bitcoin fungibility issues - all based on core with performance increases. 7) We know what we are doing from the ground up, it's not a point and click pool running someone else's software, we wrote all the code and maintain it ourselves 8 ) The code running on the pool is open source, there for anyone to read and use: https://bitbucket.org/ckolivas/ckpool/src9) The BTC in the pool is there all in the open for anyone to see where it goes. Each block, after it's confirmed, is paid directly to the miners, and the last address on each payout is the leftover dust, or payments for accounts that don't have an address. All easy to track and see where everything is going. 9) We understand bitcoin from the ground up. 10) You wont find me making posts that aren't backed by facts, or if I do make a mistake, I will certainly correct my errors if I discover that, or someone points it out. I'm not always right and I have no issue realising that fact. So now that you've hit a 310%+ block just when you've joined, it's time for me to post a table that shows what to expect from any pool regarding block% and luck: 0.39346934028737 50.000% 1 in 1.6 0.63212055882856 100.000% 1 in 2.7 0.77686983985157 150.000% 1 in 4.5 0.86466471676339 200.000% 1 in 7.4 0.95021293163214 300.000% 1 in 20.1 0.98168436111127 400.000% 1 in 54.6 0.99326205300091 500.000% 1 in 148.4 0.99752124782333 600.000% 1 in 403.4 0.99872735771441 666.666% 1 in 785.8 0.99908811803445 700.000% 1 in 1096.6 0.99966453737210 800.000% 1 in 2981.0 0.99987659019591 900.000% 1 in 8103.1 0.95539904465973 311.000% 1 in 22.4
So yep, 1 in 22.4 blocks is EXPECTED, on average, to be greater than 311%, where we currently are. There's no way to control the % of each single block we find, there's expected results, and we clearly do find blocks within those expected results as the table at the top of the blocks page shows https://kano.is/index.php?k=blocks
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ferdinand90
Member
Offline
Activity: 67
Merit: 10
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February 08, 2016, 09:18:50 PM |
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Pool: 25h (397279)
THIS IS RIDICULOUS !
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wolfen
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February 08, 2016, 09:19:15 PM |
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Here I come folks, lets get this block One PH on deck. TOFTT Baby!
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For those about to block we salute you! AC->BTC
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firetreeactual
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 952
Merit: 1003
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February 08, 2016, 09:27:47 PM |
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Con always says it better...and quite clearly. I've got a lot of respect for both CK and Kano. I would probably have not recommitted to the BTC movement without having read a great deal of their work. I sent my service dog, Sky Pilot, to fetch a block. She won't give up until she finds one...and, although she has no opposing thumbs, she can tap dance the heck out of a keyboard (Jack Russell/Sheltie).
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To infinity and beyond...on two 741s and one of only 3...nope, make that 4...full nodes in Hawaii...on <30A. (I have other gear on the Hoth ice planet)
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hurricandave
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 966
Merit: 1003
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February 08, 2016, 09:28:02 PM |
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0.99872735771441 666.666% 1 in 785.8 When we hit this ^ Is when I lost fear of Long Blocks, Jus gotta Let Go and Hack On.
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blockchainmines
Member
Offline
Activity: 84
Merit: 10
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February 08, 2016, 09:29:23 PM |
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However, for me to use what little influence I have right now can someone maybe give me an higher level overview of how a ckpool works vs say a larger pool like antpool. I read the thread on ckpool last night and it was a bit over my head. I am trying to learn more of the of the inter workings.
Welcome. The ckpool thread itself is about the software behind how kano.is and solo.ckpool.org work and not something regular miners are expected to understand. There really is nothing different fundamentally about how antpool and kano.is work, as ultimately they're both PPLNS stratum mining pools for bitcoin. The main difference is that we wrote the software we use ourselves from the ground up to be ultra-scalable and efficient to minimise any chance of lost work and orphan blocks. Because of the design of the software, we're also able to include more transactions than any other pool without it affecting our performance - and that means more transaction fees on average for every block solved, and transaction fees are included in miner's rewards. Additionally, unlike every one of the larger 3 pools, we do not do SPV mining meaning we always validate all blocks before working on new blocks - which mean there is zero chance of us working on a broken fork of the blockchain (which the larger pools were guilty of doing last year). Whatever fees that may seem to be lesser on other pools, and whatever alleged extra rewards they get from merged mining shitcoins are greatly offset by the losses incurred by the software design/set up/policy/maintenance of the rest of the pool design. Payouts here come when blocks mature (101 confirmations) and the entire block reward is completely distributed on each block solve meaning the pool never behaves like a "bank", storing miners' bitcoins - and the associated risk that come with behaving like a bank are abolished. In the future we may be doing payouts once a day to consolidate payouts but that will only happen if we become large enough that blocks are more frequent than they currently are. We also guarantee that should we ever get very large, we will create disincentives to take more miners to prevent our size from ever being a risk to bitcoin's decentralisation - 10% is our cut off. Kano also provides personalised support on this forum instead of no support or facebook messages. Kano being the main pool admin means you have someone who sets alarms to literally wake him up 24/7 should there be any issues to work on them as soon as possible. Finally, Kano and I are the software developers responsible for cgminer which in some form or other powers more than 90% of the network, and we continue to develop mining and pool software and contribute it all back to the community. Thank you for taking the time to explain this to me. I have been watching this pool for a about month and seen it double in size. In fact it was a couple of my viewers that recommended that I move over this direction. I am pretty impressed with the overwhelming response that I received from everyone. Being on YouTube I get a lot of questions of where I mine, how to I get set up, etc, etc, so I will take some time over the next little while and come up with some bullet points to why this is better than one of the larger pools and why I decided to change directions. To those of you who identified as viewers of mine, keep me honest here and tell me from your simplistic user perspective (or complex) why you guys chose this pool over others. Like I mentioned earlier I want to put it out there to try and get some more hashing power pointed this direction just as long as there are no objections by the pool owners. At any rate, thanks again!
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philipma1957
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 4256
Merit: 8603
'The right to privacy matters'
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February 08, 2016, 09:37:07 PM |
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I wrote a long thread on this https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1338693.0Basically kano.is is superior to any pool that has made more the 100 blocks based on lifetime block luck. If your internet connects well to kano.is you should be on kano.is Now I used to have a few s-7's hosted in China they had poor connections to kano.is and I ran them on antpool and f2pool they had superior up time with the major Chinese pools. I felt that is a case to mine on the Chinese pools. Poor connection to kano.is As I see a flaw in BTC = not enough transactions are done daily and the Chinese pools do not support max transactions I let go of all my gear hosted in China. I purchased machines to run in USA and I self host them. They are pointed at kano.is
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AriesIV10
Legendary
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Activity: 1260
Merit: 1006
Mine for a Bit
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February 08, 2016, 10:01:54 PM |
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Kilowatt is one of the longest standing Block Champions.
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sorry2xs
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 924
Merit: 1000
Dark Passenger Bitcoin miner 2013,Bitcoin node
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February 08, 2016, 10:06:48 PM |
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Kilowatt is one of the longest standing Block Champions.
Thanks just trying to contribute
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Please tip the Node 1MPWKB23NsZsXHANnFwVAWT86mL24fqAjF; KO4UX THAT NO GOOD DO GOODER BAT!!!
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AriesIV10
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1006
Mine for a Bit
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February 08, 2016, 10:11:27 PM |
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Block
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HerbPean
Legendary
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Activity: 1638
Merit: 1005
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February 08, 2016, 10:11:34 PM |
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We made it !
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clgrissom3
Legendary
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Activity: 1722
Merit: 1032
Carl, aka Sonny :)
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February 08, 2016, 10:11:49 PM |
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Block! captminer2 hits his 2nd block at Kano!
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ferdinand90
Member
Offline
Activity: 67
Merit: 10
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February 08, 2016, 10:11:59 PM |
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finaly a block
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gt_addict
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February 08, 2016, 10:12:21 PM |
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Woohoo!!
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**SUPPORT SIDEHACK** Miner Development Donations to: 1BURGERAXHH6Yi6LRybRJK7ybEm5m5HwTr
Donations/Tips to:- 1GTADDicTXD1uachKKgW24DZDxDGhSMdRa
Join Bitconnect: https://bitconnect.co/?ref=gtaddict
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blockchainmines
Member
Offline
Activity: 84
Merit: 10
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February 08, 2016, 10:14:20 PM |
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common kano work your magic were at 21 hours and no blocks found
I finally decided to move my farm over from antpool to kano and apparently I stepped into a 23 hour test of patience. Ok so seriously I have pushed antpool on my youtube channel but as antpool keeps growing the logic to support the smaller pools makes more sense. That being said we all still need to make money so if I am in, I would like to share this with my subscribers. However, for me to use what little influence I have right now can someone maybe give me an higher level overview of how a ckpool works vs say a larger pool like antpool. I read the thread on ckpool last night and it was a bit over my head. I am trying to learn more of the of the inter workings. Thanks in advance for your help! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwoLtAoTpf1e6pRqpwNI54A?view_as=public Heh -ck beat me to it, but anyway, here's my TL;DR; version Well some important points, in no particular order, are: 1) We never mine empty blocks if transactions are available (so far never made an empty block) 2) We've averaged the highest block sizes of all pools: Solo first, Kano.is second. http://data.bitcoinity.org/bitcoin/blocksize/30d?t=lScroll down to "Blocks size by mining pool" and click on "Average size" twice 3) CKPool is written in C and -ck is a linux kernel developer who clearly knows about writing performance critical code. (the software used in most miners mining BTC is cgminer, the performance/management code written almost entirely by -ck) 4) CKPool and CKDB are two separate parts of the pool that makes sure that the mining and reporting are separate and somewhat independent This means that the priorities of the two parts of the pool are met separately and do not conflict with each other. 5) We have VERY low orphan rates due to how fast the code runs and how well we've setup our block distribution 6) We run custom bitcoind, optimised for performance, no blacklisting, no bitcoin fungibility issues - all based on core with performance increases. 7) We know what we are doing from the ground up, it's not a point and click pool running someone else's software, we wrote all the code and maintain it ourselves 8 ) The code running on the pool is open source, there for anyone to read and use: https://bitbucket.org/ckolivas/ckpool/src9) The BTC in the pool is there all in the open for anyone to see where it goes. Each block, after it's confirmed, is paid directly to the miners, and the last address on each payout is the leftover dust, or payments for accounts that don't have an address. All easy to track and see where everything is going. 9) We understand bitcoin from the ground up. 10) You wont find me making posts that aren't backed by facts, or if I do make a mistake, I will certainly correct my errors if I discover that, or someone points it out. I'm not always right and I have no issue realising that fact. So now that you've hit a 310%+ block just when you've joined, it's time for me to post a table that shows what to expect from any pool regarding block% and luck: 0.39346934028737 50.000% 1 in 1.6 0.63212055882856 100.000% 1 in 2.7 0.77686983985157 150.000% 1 in 4.5 0.86466471676339 200.000% 1 in 7.4 0.95021293163214 300.000% 1 in 20.1 0.98168436111127 400.000% 1 in 54.6 0.99326205300091 500.000% 1 in 148.4 0.99752124782333 600.000% 1 in 403.4 0.99872735771441 666.666% 1 in 785.8 0.99908811803445 700.000% 1 in 1096.6 0.99966453737210 800.000% 1 in 2981.0 0.99987659019591 900.000% 1 in 8103.1 0.95539904465973 311.000% 1 in 22.4
So yep, 1 in 22.4 blocks is EXPECTED, on average, to be greater than 311%, where we currently are. There's no way to control the % of each single block we find, there's expected results, and we clearly do find blocks within those expected results as the table at the top of the blocks page shows https://kano.is/index.php?k=blocksThank You Kano, this is exactly what I was looking for. If you don't mind my referencing any part of this in the future when I put a video out on your pool that would be great. Thanks again!
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bctmke
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February 08, 2016, 10:14:40 PM |
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Only ~325%. Not the worst
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sorry2xs
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 924
Merit: 1000
Dark Passenger Bitcoin miner 2013,Bitcoin node
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February 08, 2016, 10:14:49 PM |
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Please tip the Node 1MPWKB23NsZsXHANnFwVAWT86mL24fqAjF; KO4UX THAT NO GOOD DO GOODER BAT!!!
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wolfen
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February 08, 2016, 10:16:16 PM |
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block!
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For those about to block we salute you! AC->BTC
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