KanoPool since 2014 🐈 - PPLNS and Solo 0.5% fee - Worldwide - 2435 blocks

[rifleman74]

If you read my last post I am not asking for instant gratification nor instant payouts. I CLEARLY stated that there currently isn’t a middle ground for ramp up/down time anywhere. I am just as concerned as anyone else with the distribution of hash across the network. Hence why I helped startup another pool in 2015. What I am concerned with is spinning up 50k in hardware and not being paid for full hashrate until 2 weeks later....this current ramp up period doesn’t benefit those who plan on mining for the long haul as ramp down is irrelevant.

Actually it does benefit, you just fail to see it.

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[rifleman74]

Indeed. It's easy for these "old timers" on Kano to scoff at us who are joining the party late. Some of us have not paid back our hardware costs yet and with current difficulty ramping, this may never be the case. So every day is crucial to us, we can't afford runs of bad luck and 600% blocks. It all evens out doesn't mean much when you get paid $30 after mining for two weeks. Many here who are jeering at us were in the lucky runs of the past so they have more than made their gains and can afford to preach from their lofty piles of coins.

If you read my last post I am not asking for instant gratification nor instant payouts. I CLEARLY stated that there currently isn’t a middle ground for ramp up/down time anywhere. I am just as concerned as anyone else with the distribution of hash across the network. Hence why I helped startup another pool in 2015. What I am concerned with is spinning up 50k in hardware and not being paid for full hashrate until 2 weeks later....this current ramp up period doesn’t benefit those who plan on mining for the long haul as ramp down is irrelevant.

If you believe BTC keeps rising over time, you'll more than make your hardware costs back.  Again, this isn't a make everything in one month game anymore.   Time, patience, and understanding are key in mining right now.  Some people have it, others don't. 

[krisgt30]

You guys are acting like I am trying to steer people away from this pool when I am doing the opposite. I am merely making suggestions. The same people that complain that this pool may become too small to maintain relevance don’t want to hear varying opinions from their own. I don’t fail to see anything, long term miners, that don’t intend to ramp down ever, don’t have any benefit to this long ramp up time as it is 25% of your btc earned in the first month lost. If you want to gain new miners you have to try new things to maintain relevance. Speaking from experience.

[robroyman]

Sure, but it may make more sense to just buy the Bitcoin at this point. An S9 miner costs $3,000, 12 months of electric costs around $2000 at $0.15/kWh. So for a year's worth of mining you can buy around 0.6BTC, which would take 16 months to mine. (actually probably much longer, as difficulty is skyrocketing)

Indeed. It's easy for these "old timers" on Kano to scoff at us who are joining the party late. Some of us have not paid back our hardware costs yet and with current difficulty ramping, this may never be the case. So every day is crucial to us, we can't afford runs of bad luck and 600% blocks. It all evens out doesn't mean much when you get paid $30 after mining for two weeks. Many here who are jeering at us were in the lucky runs of the past so they have more than made their gains and can afford to preach from their lofty piles of coins.

If you read my last post I am not asking for instant gratification nor instant payouts. I CLEARLY stated that there currently isn’t a middle ground for ramp up/down time anywhere. I am just as concerned as anyone else with the distribution of hash across the network. Hence why I helped startup another pool in 2015. What I am concerned with is spinning up 50k in hardware and not being paid for full hashrate until 2 weeks later....this current ramp up period doesn’t benefit those who plan on mining for the long haul as ramp down is irrelevant.

If you believe BTC keeps rising over time, you'll more than make your hardware costs back.  Again, this isn't a make everything in one month game anymore.   Time, patience, and understanding are key in mining right now.  Some people have it, others don't.  

[rifleman74]

You guys are acting like I am trying to steer people away from this pool when I am doing the opposite. I am merely making suggestions. The same people that complain that this pool may become too small to maintain relevance don’t want to hear varying opinions from their own. I don’t fail to see anything, long term miners, that don’t intend to ramp down ever, don’t have any benefit to this long ramp up time as it is 25% of your btc earned in the first month lost. If you want to gain new miners you have to try new things to maintain relevance. Speaking from experience.

The more hash that joins, the less the ramp up time is.  Pretty obvious what the scenario for you is here.

[rifleman74]

Sure, but it may make more sense to just buy the Bitcoin at this point. An S9 miner costs $3,000, 12 months of electric costs around $2000 at $0.15/kWh. So for a year's worth of mining you can buy around 0.6BTC, which would take 16 months to mine. (actually probably much longer, as difficulty is skyrocketing)

That is also true.  But for people who already have the miners, that cost is already "sunk".  You're talking about brand new people (who should be finding better electricity than .15/kWh...that's close to double most prices and at least 50% more than basic electricity costs for many).

[krisgt30]

You guys are acting like I am trying to steer people away from this pool when I am doing the opposite. I am merely making suggestions. The same people that complain that this pool may become too small to maintain relevance don’t want to hear varying opinions from their own. I don’t fail to see anything, long term miners, that don’t intend to ramp down ever, don’t have any benefit to this long ramp up time as it is 25% of your btc earned in the first month lost. If you want to gain new miners you have to try new things to maintain relevance. Speaking from experience.

The more hash that joins, the less the ramp up time is.  Pretty obvious what the scenario for you is here.

And the hash rate hasn’t gone up. So no benefit.

[akadamson]

You guys are acting like I am trying to steer people away from this pool when I am doing the opposite. I am merely making suggestions. The same people that complain that this pool may become too small to maintain relevance don’t want to hear varying opinions from their own. I don’t fail to see anything, long term miners, that don’t intend to ramp down ever, don’t have any benefit to this long ramp up time as it is 25% of your btc earned in the first month lost. If you want to gain new miners you have to try new things to maintain relevance. Speaking from experience.

But it's not lost btc (unless we have more 500+% difficulty blocks anyway), that long ramp up, pays as a long ramp down when/if you leave.  Exactly the same way.

so again all the ramp does is reduce the variance, it has little *overall* effect from start to end (with the one exception that because it's a 5Nd PPLNS, when shares exceed 500% for a given block, you won't be paid for shares at the beginning (5Nd is a sliding window from the block find back in history))

Its mostly just an emotional/mental block because while you are *ramping*, you see smaller payouts, and depending on when you get in, it may be a little more painful, because enduring a 600% block like we just did can cause you to wonder... but I suspect over a *duration* of time even that *variance* will smooth

[akadamson]

You guys are acting like I am trying to steer people away from this pool when I am doing the opposite. I am merely making suggestions. The same people that complain that this pool may become too small to maintain relevance don’t want to hear varying opinions from their own. I don’t fail to see anything, long term miners, that don’t intend to ramp down ever, don’t have any benefit to this long ramp up time as it is 25% of your btc earned in the first month lost. If you want to gain new miners you have to try new things to maintain relevance. Speaking from experience.

The more hash that joins, the less the ramp up time is.  Pretty obvious what the scenario for you is here.

And the hash rate hasn’t gone up. So no benefit.

That completely depends on when you started watching.

I joined on the 18th of Jan.  The Pool was 32Ph... Today its over 52Ph.  by my fuzzy math that's a pretty significant size increase in a month

[rifleman74]

You guys are acting like I am trying to steer people away from this pool when I am doing the opposite. I am merely making suggestions. The same people that complain that this pool may become too small to maintain relevance don’t want to hear varying opinions from their own. I don’t fail to see anything, long term miners, that don’t intend to ramp down ever, don’t have any benefit to this long ramp up time as it is 25% of your btc earned in the first month lost. If you want to gain new miners you have to try new things to maintain relevance. Speaking from experience.

The more hash that joins, the less the ramp up time is.  Pretty obvious what the scenario for you is here.

And the hash rate hasn’t gone up. So no benefit.

Yes it has, pool has doubled.

[Newko]

You guys are acting like I am trying to steer people away from this pool when I am doing the opposite. I am merely making suggestions. The same people that complain that this pool may become too small to maintain relevance don’t want to hear varying opinions from their own. I don’t fail to see anything, long term miners, that don’t intend to ramp down ever, don’t have any benefit to this long ramp up time as it is 25% of your btc earned in the first month lost. If you want to gain new miners you have to try new things to maintain relevance. Speaking from experience.

The "ramp down" effect can be very important even for those of us who never plan to leave. As you know, sh-t happens, such as power outages, and that is when "ramp down" really helps. Say your gear goes down for 6 hours and we hit a block, you'll still get paid (almost your full amount because 5 hours offline doesn't hurt your avg hash rate that much over the 5ND). If you mine on PPS pool and your gear goes down, then you get paid nothing if they hit a block when your down. Very important difference.

Mine on, my friend

[perfectplus174]

To all the newbies on here, I am one myself. I had all the same questions or concerns, but I will say I am here to stay for reasons beyond the obvious stated.

The ramp up: This concerned me because it felt "unfair" that my equipment wasn't getting the recognition.....until I understood how it worked AND why. I am no longer concerned.

Luck: This concept wasn't that hard to grasp once I realized that is indeed all that is factored into finding a block. Nobody bitches about not winning the lottery off their one or 10 tickets they bought (except probably DPoS2) when there are lottery pools with thousands of tickets.
If you want to "win" more, then join a large pool, if you want to increase your chances of "winning", but like bigger payouts, join a pool that averages your probability to suit your desires.

More terahash doesn't equal that many more blocks, just that many more lottery tickets. To complain about the cost of lottery tickets vs how many lottery tickets it takes for you to win is not the concern of the pool. I hear a lot of complaining about the cost of electricity and how it's not profitable to mine in this pool. It's not going to be profitable to mine any pool that consistently gets 600% bad luck blocks. That being said, there is no way that I know of to increase or decrease LUCK. You can only increase your probability by adding more terahash (buying more tickets). Other than that it is LUCK!

noun: luck

    1.
    success or failure apparently brought by chance rather than through one's own actions.
    "it was just luck that the first kick went in"
    synonyms:   success, prosperity, good fortune, good luck
    "I wish you luck"
    antonyms:   failure, misfortune
        chance considered as a force that causes good or bad things to happen.
        "luck was with me"
        synonyms:   fortune, fate, destiny, Lady Luck, lot, the stars, karma, kismet; More
        fortuity, serendipity;
        chance, accident, a twist of fate
        "it is a matter of luck whether it hits or misses"
        something regarded as bringing about or portending good or bad things.
        "I don't like Friday—it's bad luck"
        synonyms:   good fortune, good luck; More
        a fluke, a stroke of luck;
        informala lucky break
        "with luck you'll make it"
        antonyms:   bad luck, misfortune

verb informal
verb: luck; 3rd person present: lucks; past tense: lucked; past participle: lucked; gerund or present participle: lucking

    1.
    chance to find or acquire.
    "he lucked into a disc-jockey job"
        North American
        achieve success or advantage by good luck.
        "I lucked out and found a wonderful woman"


The pool size: When I started in December, the pool size was around 25PHs and has been going up. There have been instances of VERY good luck where we hit 4 blocks in 2 days!! I was happy.....though my miners were not fully ramped up as I was adding more. I wish I could have had my full hash rate, but I understand the ramp up and reducing variance. There are people here who have been mining for a long time and it is kind of bullshit for someone to pop in for a couple days and reep the rewards off terahash that was not theirs, but as a collective and putting in your commitment, you actually JOIN the pool instead of visit it.

If it weren't for the ramp up, there is a chance that I would have been bouncing around to different pools. I was encouraged to check out Kano's pool from a friend in AUS as I'm in the US. I am more than pleased with the responses from Kano and the support from "members". I'm here to stay and ride out the bad luck while celebrating the good luck. I'm also not trying to pay my bills with mining, I would like to pay for the equipment someday, in increments and put away bits of coin until this shit becomes more mainstream. Kind of like how everyone wishes they did from the beginning, well guess what, I still feel that this is the beginning and there is a long way to go.

I'm in for the future and I'm in for Kano. Thanks for the support from everyone and to the newbies, please take whatever approach to mining that better suits your needs so long as you actually understand what those are.

MINE ON!!!

[krisgt30]

Guys...not a noob here....my point is, pointed 50 terahashes at the pool when it was at 52ph, it is now in the mid 40s. Anyone with substantial hash has generators for backup as do I. The two week ramp up on major hash is killer as it takes away 25% of your earnings for the first month you mine. If one was to pull out of Kano they’d still get hash, I know that. It’s been that way for years. But what didn’t occur in years was only 1 block solve in half a months time. When you are not seeing the increase in hashrate and seeing an increase in round time, the only logical conclusion is to shorten ramp up/ramp down time. This does not incentivize anyone to point new hash here.

[Yrth]

Guys...not a noob here....my point is, pointed 50 terahashes at the pool when it was at 52ph, it is now in the mid 40s. Anyone with substantial hash has generators for backup as do I. The two week ramp up on major hash is killer as it takes away 25% of your earnings for the first month you mine. If one was to pull out of Kano they’d still get hash, I know that. It’s been that way for years. But what didn’t occur in years was only 1 block solve in half a months time. When you are not seeing the increase in hashrate and seeing an increase in round time, the only logical conclusion is to shorten ramp up/ramp down time. This does not incentivize anyone to point new hash here.

I've got about 260th/s pointed here and I've been mining here for 2 years. When I joined the 5nd was like 36 hours and made way more sense than it does now. I would agree that 5nd could be shortened to 3nd or even a 1nd with our current hashrate. I think it would attract lot more new miners. Every time I have brought this up in the past it was shot down. Kano was against changing because it increases the variance and would be to the detriment of those who already reached the 5nd.

[BSGMiner]

Guys...not a noob here....my point is, pointed 50 terahashes at the pool when it was at 52ph, it is now in the mid 40s. Anyone with substantial hash has generators for backup as do I. The two week ramp up on major hash is killer as it takes away 25% of your earnings for the first month you mine. If one was to pull out of Kano they’d still get hash, I know that. It’s been that way for years. But what didn’t occur in years was only 1 block solve in half a months time. When you are not seeing the increase in hashrate and seeing an increase in round time, the only logical conclusion is to shorten ramp up/ramp down time. This does not incentivize anyone to point new hash here.

Think positive. You'll be fully-ramped up if this block takes over 500% like the last one!

[perfectplus174]

Guys...not a noob here....my point is, pointed 50 terahashes at the pool when it was at 52ph, it is now in the mid 40s. Anyone with substantial hash has generators for backup as do I. The two week ramp up on major hash is killer as it takes away 25% of your earnings for the first month you mine. If one was to pull out of Kano they’d still get hash, I know that. It’s been that way for years. But what didn’t occur in years was only 1 block solve in half a months time. When you are not seeing the increase in hashrate and seeing an increase in round time, the only logical conclusion is to shorten ramp up/ramp down time. This does not incentivize anyone to point new hash here.

But you're here. What incentivized you? I had no incentives other than a recommendation and my own research into the pool. I don't see the point in incentivizing someone more than the small pool fee and community willing to help and answer questions. The amount of complaining is somewhat turning me off from the forum, but not the pool. If you want to incentivize people, quit discouraging them. I'm not saying you specifically, but there are others.

If all the posts are bitchy twats complaining about the blocks, then nobody is going to want to mine here. That's my take, though I've been wrong before.

[BSGMiner]

...except probably DPoS2...

An instant classic! This would be the perfect Grumpy Cat or Bad Luck Brian meme.

Any takers?

[luxMiner]

Guys...not a noob here....my point is, pointed 50 terahashes at the pool when it was at 52ph, it is now in the mid 40s. Anyone with substantial hash has generators for backup as do I. The two week ramp up on major hash is killer as it takes away 25% of your earnings for the first month you mine. If one was to pull out of Kano they’d still get hash, I know that. It’s been that way for years. But what didn’t occur in years was only 1 block solve in half a months time. When you are not seeing the increase in hashrate and seeing an increase in round time, the only logical conclusion is to shorten ramp up/ramp down time. This does not incentivize anyone to point new hash here.

I've got about 260th/s pointed here and I've been mining here for 2 years. When I joined the 5nd was like 36 hours and made way more sense than it does now. I would agree that 5nd could be shortened to 3nd or even a 1nd with our current hashrate. I think it would attract lot more new miners. Every time I have brought this up in the past it was shot down. Kano was against changing because it increases the variance and would be to the detriment of those who already reached the 5nd.

i agree with you from an economical point of view, but must also agree with Kano from an idiological perspective. if the ramp were shorter, like 3nd or even 1nd, i would move over 500 TH or more in a heartbeat. however, having a business to sustain and partners to justify the decision to, makes such a move quite difficult to defend.

[BSGMiner]

...nobody is going to want to mine here...

...except probably DPoS2...

Haha! It works everywhere.

[perfectplus174]

...nobody is going to want to mine here...

...except probably DPoS2...

Haha! It works everywhere.

WWDPoS2D?
What would DPoS2 do?