KanoPool since 2014 🐈 - PPLNS and Solo 0.5% fee - Worldwide - 2435 blocks

[clgrissom3]

The Newbie PM block is a default setting that just appeared out of nowhere recently so most folks didn't know about it.

It's under Personal Message Options.

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[sugarwookie]

ah, didn’t know that was a thing lol. Fixed, thank you!

[perfectplus174]

What about the small miners?
Bonus for the larger miners again but no incentive for the smaller miners.

Block bonus should be available to anyone finding a block as you said yourself we are already outside the DIFF curve would seem unfair to pay larger miners extra 1BTC if they find a block yet the smaller miners get nothing for block find bonus??

I understand the attraction this would bring to larger farms but what about the little guys.. We getting squished even more?

There is no difference between me running lower hashrate and finding a block and someone running 9.5ph we are all in this for the same reason, and to reward one and not the other seems unfair?

Bonus structure coiuld be worked out much better way and it would have more reach in the community..  Just my 2 cents but seems little unfair.

Add up all of the "little guys" hash and and contribution to finding a block and reconsider how valuable they actually are. I don't mean this in a disrespectful way at all, I'm just saying to make it seem like it is an unfair treatment, add up the total investment and compare it to other's investment. This isn't saying the little guys don't add value, I'm saying to compare apples to apples.

I was envisioning a small bonus to smaller miners by those who were willing to chip in, but the more I think about that, the more I see how that could potentially hurt the pool and attract too many new miners still complaining about the payouts and to be honest, the small miners are not really the goal. Bottom line, there shouldn't be much complaining about payments unless the pool was shrinking or losing hash. I like Kano's idea more and more to get the big miners here and see where that goes. Anyone who can't seem to help themselves from complaining has no obligation to stick around and I really don't understand the point in trying to convince others that the system doesn't work. Why not just go peacefully?

Anyways, I've said it before, this is my new home. I'm not leaving unless I quit mining all together for whatever reason. Otherwise, this is my home and I don't take kindly to vermin trash talkin' my home. Life aint' fair nor is lady luck.

[DrSha]

What about the small miners?
Bonus for the larger miners again but no incentive for the smaller miners.

Block bonus should be available to anyone finding a block as you said yourself we are already outside the DIFF curve would seem unfair to pay larger miners extra 1BTC if they find a block yet the smaller miners get nothing for block find bonus??

I understand the attraction this would bring to larger farms but what about the little guys.. We getting squished even more?

There is no difference between me running lower hashrate and finding a block and someone running 9.5ph we are all in this for the same reason, and to reward one and not the other seems unfair?

Bonus structure coiuld be worked out much better way and it would have more reach in the community..  Just my 2 cents but seems little unfair.

Add up all of the "little guys" hash and and contribution to finding a block and reconsider how valuable they actually are. I don't mean this in a disrespectful way at all, I'm just saying to make it seem like it is an unfair treatment, add up the total investment and compare it to other's investment. This isn't saying the little guys don't add value, I'm saying to compare apples to apples.

I was envisioning a small bonus to smaller miners by those who were willing to chip in, but the more I think about that, the more I see how that could potentially hurt the pool and attract too many new miners still complaining about the payouts and to be honest, the small miners are not really the goal. Bottom line, there shouldn't be much complaining about payments unless the pool was shrinking or losing hash. I like Kano's idea more and more to get the big miners here and see where that goes. Anyone who can't seem to help themselves from complaining has no obligation to stick around and I really don't understand the point in trying to convince others that the system doesn't work. Why not just go peacefully?

Anyways, I've said it before, this is my new home. I'm not leaving unless I quit mining all together for whatever reason. Otherwise, this is my home and I don't take kindly to vermin trash talkin' my home. Life aint' fair nor is lady luck.

I hope my post was not taken in the wrong light I fully understand why the pool would benefit from some larger whales pointing some hashrate here in the long run its good for us all more blocks = more pay, + more hashrate helps the pool stay competitive.  Already seen the hashrate rise a touch so that is a good sign.  + I know its out kano's pocket which dose show how much he cares about pushing the pool up the ladder.

Come On Block...

[rifleman74]

Yep remember, Kano-san is talking about adding EXISTING HASH to the pool, not brand new hash.   Take some from over there and put it over here...that helps all of us. 

[perfectplus174]

What about the small miners?
Bonus for the larger miners again but no incentive for the smaller miners.

Block bonus should be available to anyone finding a block as you said yourself we are already outside the DIFF curve would seem unfair to pay larger miners extra 1BTC if they find a block yet the smaller miners get nothing for block find bonus??

I understand the attraction this would bring to larger farms but what about the little guys.. We getting squished even more?

There is no difference between me running lower hashrate and finding a block and someone running 9.5ph we are all in this for the same reason, and to reward one and not the other seems unfair?

Bonus structure coiuld be worked out much better way and it would have more reach in the community..  Just my 2 cents but seems little unfair.

Add up all of the "little guys" hash and and contribution to finding a block and reconsider how valuable they actually are. I don't mean this in a disrespectful way at all, I'm just saying to make it seem like it is an unfair treatment, add up the total investment and compare it to other's investment. This isn't saying the little guys don't add value, I'm saying to compare apples to apples.

I was envisioning a small bonus to smaller miners by those who were willing to chip in, but the more I think about that, the more I see how that could potentially hurt the pool and attract too many new miners still complaining about the payouts and to be honest, the small miners are not really the goal. Bottom line, there shouldn't be much complaining about payments unless the pool was shrinking or losing hash. I like Kano's idea more and more to get the big miners here and see where that goes. Anyone who can't seem to help themselves from complaining has no obligation to stick around and I really don't understand the point in trying to convince others that the system doesn't work. Why not just go peacefully?

Anyways, I've said it before, this is my new home. I'm not leaving unless I quit mining all together for whatever reason. Otherwise, this is my home and I don't take kindly to vermin trash talkin' my home. Life aint' fair nor is lady luck.

I hope my post was not taken in the wrong light I fully understand why the pool would benefit from some larger whales pointing some hashrate here in the long run its good for us all more blocks = more pay, + more hashrate helps the pool stay competitive.  Already seen the hashrate rise a touch so that is a good sign.  + I know its out kano's pocket which dose show how much he cares about pushing the pool up the ladder.

Come On Block...

No, it wasn't. I just added more to my general response. I understand where you were coming from. My own takeaway has evolved as well.

MINE ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[A.Delaney]

I’m looking for a block. Has anybody seen one?

[DPoS2]

Mate the only point that you make is that you are an imbecile. Nothing you are saying is new to us "old heads" we knew about it years before you even had an inkling of it in your head. We knew, we consider and we plan our mining around our knowledge, anything you say is just bad gas. I am one of the few have put up with the rubbish spewing from your fingers but its just boring now, so from no on it'll just be when someone who doesn't know better quotes you that I'll have to put up with it.

The number of miners makes no difference, its just about the size of the pool. Its nothing to do with the pool per-se, its to do with the people mining at the pool, and their ability to increase their hash rate to keep the pool and their income viable. Its better to have less miners with more hash power than more miners with less hash power.

If people want to have a consistent income from mining they have to keep buying hardware to keep up with the difficulty, its the same since day 1 of mining and will always be the same.

If anything the difficulty to keep up is to do with the slow down in technology innovation around mining and the greed and control of a single primary supplier. In the past hardware has got faster, more efficient and cheaper, this has changed recently, that and the increase in value of bitcoin and the subsequent "gold rush" mentality of new miners means its tougher and tougher to maintain that steady growth.

People getting into it now are only just realising what we "old heads" knew 18 months ago. You can't do this at home anymore, you have to have your gear colo'ed somewhere with cheap and abundant power. Problem is that there is no room at the inn for most of the hosting companies.

100% Agree  (especially the 1st paragraph!!).

I've been meaning to post something very similar to this is what I think almost every time I read most of the new posts.

Mine On!!

Old heads..  haha  my old account is from 2011 jackoff..  and looks like Kano is doing the gambling promo that I suggested yet he scoffed at me anyway...  but not for small miners of course.  But glad he is doing something.  Good to try to grab hash from other pools..  I believe the better move is a temporary shortened ramp up time since as pointed out by many, long ramp up times only benefit current big miners since the diff almost always goes up thus your ramp down period isn't equal to your ramp up.  But 'old farts' will complain it isn't fair even as the pool evaporates and they do nothing to bring people in

 

[akadamson]

What we all need to remember is

a) the 10BTC incentive does *NOT* come from miners share, it's a separate, funded by separate means, set of funds
b) it doesn't *NOT* penalize the small guys any more than their small hashrate does
c) BUT WHAT IT DOES DO is get us back to the diff curve and hopefully ahead of it.
d) it will have a dilutive effect on your payments, but only because of the relationship of your shares to the pool shares
e) it will shorten the *5Nd* ramp time for everyone
f) and most important if *should* have the effect of causing more blocks to be found in the equivalent amount of time.


d) is really the only thing that might be of issue with some, but f) should more than make up for that.

Just my .05,

[kano]

...
I suggest considering changing the pools payout system to a proportional payout system.
...

Firstly, people should just ignore his posts and I'll delete them.

Secondly, to prove how stupid he is, a proportional payout system is bad for long term miners.
They lose a lot of rewards to hoppers.
Read up about payout systems.

Lastly, PPS does indeed have a very high risk of the pool going broke, and at least some of those running PPS pools clearly have no idea of the maths involved, they just happen to have very large pockets.
To resolve that, PPS pools MUST charge much higher fees. It's mandatory.
PPLNS doesn't have that high risk or the need for high fees.

Bitcoin by design, has block finding variance, you can't tell in advance when we will find a block, so a payout system that matches that variance makes perfect sense.

There are a number of PPS pools that have gone bankrupt in the past due to the exact reason as described in the payout analysis done by Meni.

[robroyman]

Slushpool has 40 times the hash power of Kano pool and they sometimes take 5 hours these days to find a block. It’s madness.

[perfectplus174]

Mate the only point that you make is that you are an imbecile. Nothing you are saying is new to us "old heads" we knew about it years before you even had an inkling of it in your head. We knew, we consider and we plan our mining around our knowledge, anything you say is just bad gas. I am one of the few have put up with the rubbish spewing from your fingers but its just boring now, so from no on it'll just be when someone who doesn't know better quotes you that I'll have to put up with it.

The number of miners makes no difference, its just about the size of the pool. Its nothing to do with the pool per-se, its to do with the people mining at the pool, and their ability to increase their hash rate to keep the pool and their income viable. Its better to have less miners with more hash power than more miners with less hash power.

If people want to have a consistent income from mining they have to keep buying hardware to keep up with the difficulty, its the same since day 1 of mining and will always be the same.

If anything the difficulty to keep up is to do with the slow down in technology innovation around mining and the greed and control of a single primary supplier. In the past hardware has got faster, more efficient and cheaper, this has changed recently, that and the increase in value of bitcoin and the subsequent "gold rush" mentality of new miners means its tougher and tougher to maintain that steady growth.

People getting into it now are only just realising what we "old heads" knew 18 months ago. You can't do this at home anymore, you have to have your gear colo'ed somewhere with cheap and abundant power. Problem is that there is no room at the inn for most of the hosting companies.

100% Agree  (especially the 1st paragraph!!).

I've been meaning to post something very similar to this is what I think almost every time I read most of the new posts.

Mine On!!

Old heads..  haha  my old account is from 2011 jackoff..  and looks like Kano is doing the gambling promo that I suggested yet he scoffed at me anyway...  but not for small miners of course.  But glad he is doing something.  Good to try to grab hash from other pools..  I believe the better move is a temporary shortened ramp up time since as pointed out by many, long ramp up times only benefit current big miners since the diff almost always goes up thus your ramp down period isn't equal to your ramp up.  But 'old farts' will complain it isn't fair even as the pool evaporates and they do nothing to bring people in

 

Could you find that page where you suggested the offer he is promoting and where you were scoffed? Just to validate you are NOT completely full of shit.

[Shazam!!!]

I'm hittin' this ramp....like Evil Kenevil!!! Hopefully when I land, the smoke will clear, and we can get back to business.

[Waztim]

I am all about Team Kano finding a Block not doubting the math. Global Hash rate has doubled rapidly, making the competition even harder. It definitely has had an effect on difficulty. With that said. MINE ON WITH KANO-SAN, the best Bitcoin Mining Pool on Planet Earth. If you have weak knees, this isn't the place for you, but if you understand simple principals of probabilities and like to get paid in larger chunks of BTC, this is the pool, KANO POOL, for you. Mine On!! BTCBTC

[miner9problems]

Could you find that page where you suggested the offer he is promoting and where you were scoffed? Just to validate you are NOT completely full of shit.

Found it:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=789369.msg29556387#msg29556387

[VRobb]

Not the same, kano is paying out of his pocket.  We miners aren't paying for it via some of the block reward getting diverted to the 'winner'

[kano]

Could you find that page where you suggested the offer he is promoting and where you were scoffed? Just to validate you are NOT completely full of shit.

Found it:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=789369.msg29556387#msg29556387

I will never do what he suggested there.
That increases pool variance - high pool variance is something he is CONTINUALLY complaining about.
To be blunt, it's stupid for him to complain about something he is suggesting himself

I've many posts about why a block finder fee (funded by all the other miners) is a bad idea.

[akadamson]

Not the same, kano is paying out of his pocket.  We miners aren't paying for it via some of the block reward getting diverted to the 'winner'

(ps. I know the quote above isn't the target of my comments below)

What is it with people... Do they not read?  Sheesh

The 10BTC is *NOT* coming from miners rewards, transaction fees, block fees, etc.... It's a completely separate source of BTC that the pool owner has and for some crazy reason (cuz,  even with the drop in BTC price today, it's still *a lot of money*),  is willing to contribute to actually help those that are mining on his pool.

[badger88]

...
I suggest considering changing the pools payout system to a proportional payout system.
...

Firstly, people should just ignore his posts and I'll delete them.

Secondly, to prove how stupid he is, a proportional payout system is bad for long term miners.
They lose a lot of rewards to hoppers.
Read up about payout systems.

Lastly, PPS does indeed have a very high risk of the pool going broke, and at least some of those running PPS pools clearly have no idea of the maths involved, they just happen to have very large pockets.
To resolve that, PPS pools MUST charge much higher fees. It's mandatory.
PPLNS doesn't have that high risk or the need for high fees.

Bitcoin by design, has block finding variance, you can't tell in advance when we will find a block, so a payout system that matches that variance makes perfect sense.

There are a number of PPS pools that have gone bankrupt in the past due to the exact reason as described in the payout analysis done by Meni.

Most miners here...(me at least) mine here because of the present system... PPLNS ...
PPS isn't great........... people love to wine for PPS....wrongly!!
 

[akadamson]

So at least for me a light bulb just went off..

I always thought about a block as a progress to completion, as such I always wondered what happened when a pool found a block, and what happened to all of the work that other pools/miners had done, were about to do.

Then I found this...
"Contrary to popular belief, mining is not something where there is progress. Each hash has the same probability of being a valid block hash. You could get lucky and find a valid hash with your next hash, or you could not. There is no progress that is made. When you mine on a lower difficulty, the target that your hash must be under is much higher than that of the networks. With enough hashes, someone will eventually find a hash that is lower than the network target, and that hash would also be lower than their pool target. The higher target (thus lower difficulty) is only for tracking who is actually doing work and how much work they are doing so that they can be paid appropriately."

from here - https://captainaltcoin.com/what-is-pool-mining/

So this then solves my problem with what happens when a block is found by another pool.  It just an event, and we continue on trying to find another hash that meets the requirements of a *block*