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 Author Topic: [~40PH] KanoPool kano.is 0.9% fee 4.3of 10BTC giveaway 🐈 US,UK,JP,NYA,OR,DE,SG  (Read 5187767 times) This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic.
gaud
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 March 02, 2018, 04:18:41 PM

k lets give this padrinogtr  thing another try . let start by taking all the luck and unnecessary stuff out of the equation.  so lets start by saying there are 5 pools in the world mining the blockchain. it spits out 1 block per day.
day 1 pool 1 gets block day 2 pool 2 on down the line till pool 5 we will call that our pool . most (the other 4 pool) using the similar pay system payout WHEN they get a block with the blocks reward they do this buy looking at how much each member worked during the day and turning that into a % that compares with the rest of the workers in the pool. they are payed a % of the block = to their %. in the kano pool its the same accept we look back 5 days instead of 1 to find each workers % again u get the % according to your %. after 5 days u will get the same block payout as all the other pools (accept they have higher fees generally which makes the block smaller). the difference is it takes a whole 5 days instead of 1 to get your full % the up side if u quit or are down for 5 days u are still getting though a diminishing return as the days go by.
so bottom line kano pool pays bests over the long term due to lower fees. this system is good because if u have break downs or gaps they wont be noticed as much but the real purpose is to stop those who pool hop (try to only work for the pool that is paying on a specific day)  there goal being to get payed everyday instead of once per five days. now there is no point in pool hoppers showing up here because they wont be able to take there money and run to the next pool cause we dont pay them jst for punching in on payday.
howd i do padrinogtr i dont think i qualify for the contest anyway but id like to know if i helped though i haven't seen yer name here in awhile:D.
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rifleman74
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4 s9's 2 821's

 March 02, 2018, 05:03:15 PM

Been away for a bit, happy to see we have some more blocks!  Thanks canaan x 2 and biffa!

I was crunching some numbers, and I joined this pool after we found block 504409 (our block # 2202).

Looking at the 44 days I have been mining in the pool, I have been a party to 7 blocks, with a cumulative difficulty of 1,453.543%, or roughly 207.649% per block.

If I am correct, statistically speaking, we were expecting to find about 14 blocks in that same time frame, but due to bad luck we found half of that.

So my question is, is that correct?  Am I reading and understanding the numbers properly?

That's close enough for government work.
minergain.com
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Free mining equipment tracking and reporting

 March 02, 2018, 05:04:10 PM

To keep it a little simpler, we will assume the block reward is 100 BTC, that cookie jar is initially filled only with peanut butter cookies (100 of them) and that full cookies are submitted once per minute – even though an S9 miner can do 13.5 Trillion hashes per second and the difficulty is also in the trillions, so in reality, our cookies are broken up into billions of pieces per second - but who wants to eat crumbs.

If another block gets hit 5 minutes later, there have been a total of 10 peanut butter cookies added (5 new ones), 30 chocolate chips and 60 ginger snaps added (and all 100 of the old peanut butter cookies have been removed) so there are a total of 100 – 100 + 10 = 10 peanut butter cookies which is 10% of the jar, 30 chocolate chips which is 30% and 60 ginger snaps which is 60% of the jar.  So the second 100 BTC gets distributed based on the percentages.

So in my view of PPLNS, it really has nothing to do with “ramping” at all.  It is more about how many cookies you have put in the jar compared to everyone else.  So if I were to win the 50TH for 5 days, there would simply be a more chocolate chip cookies added to the top of jar for those 5 days over and above my 13.5TH that I have been adding to the mix since August.

Well, that is my attempt!!!  Hopefully I am not wrong and confuse everyone even more…

So if one of our long term experts can tell me if this concept is right or wrong that would be helpful.  I use adobe flash with my signage business, so I can maybe come up with a "video" using these assumptions with the more fitting / easier to draw mining conveyor belt (similar to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBIkfLm_8js) and colored pebbles.  But if my concept is totally wrong, then it would be a waste of most of a day's worth of time.  Some people said it would be better with 5 cookie jars (5 conveyor belts) which I would need a ton of clarification before I could do a video.

www.minergain.com - Free miner equipment tracking and reporting
Mike is a tiny miner: 8 S9, 1 D3, 6 RX470
I mine at Kano Pool, for better BTC Profits!
A.Delaney
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 March 02, 2018, 05:47:55 PM

Well something is going on at my house. All of my miners quit showing up at the pool at the same time. Im stuck here at work so I cant even check to see whats going on. Now im going to lose a day of mining.  . I must have either lost internet or power. This sucks.
rifleman74
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4 s9's 2 821's

 March 02, 2018, 06:44:24 PM

Well something is going on at my house. All of my miners quit showing up at the pool at the same time. Im stuck here at work so I cant even check to see whats going on. Now im going to lose a day of mining.  . I must have either lost internet or power. This sucks.

Pool is up so yes, something on your end.   Unlucky, just like February.
gaud
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 March 02, 2018, 06:45:55 PM

Well something is going on at my house. All of my miners quit showing up at the pool at the same time. Im stuck here at work so I cant even check to see whats going on. Now im going to lose a day of mining.  . I must have either lost internet or power. This sucks.
you should look into "ausome miner" properly configured u can manage your miners from anywhere. wont help if yer house burned down or the wife ran off with your miners.
A.Delaney
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 March 02, 2018, 06:49:53 PM

Well something is going on at my house. All of my miners quit showing up at the pool at the same time. Im stuck here at work so I cant even check to see whats going on. Now im going to lose a day of mining.  . I must have either lost internet or power. This sucks.
you should look into "ausome miner" properly configured u can manage your miners from anywhere. wont help if yer house burned down or the wife ran off with your miners.

Lol if my wife runs off with anything it won’t be my miners. In fact those would probably the only thing left. I found out our internet is out. There is a line down and the service provider is trying to get it back up. Guess I have to wait.
gaud
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 March 02, 2018, 06:58:46 PM

To keep it a little simpler, we will assume the block reward is 100 BTC, that cookie jar is initially filled only with peanut butter cookies (100 of them) and that full cookies are submitted once per minute – even though an S9 miner can do 13.5 Trillion hashes per second and the difficulty is also in the trillions, so in reality, our cookies are broken up into billions of pieces per second - but who wants to eat crumbs.

If another block gets hit 5 minutes later, there have been a total of 10 peanut butter cookies added (5 new ones), 30 chocolate chips and 60 ginger snaps added (and all 100 of the old peanut butter cookies have been removed) so there are a total of 100 – 100 + 10 = 10 peanut butter cookies which is 10% of the jar, 30 chocolate chips which is 30% and 60 ginger snaps which is 60% of the jar.  So the second 100 BTC gets distributed based on the percentages.

So in my view of PPLNS, it really has nothing to do with “ramping” at all.  It is more about how many cookies you have put in the jar compared to everyone else.  So if I were to win the 50TH for 5 days, there would simply be a more chocolate chip cookies added to the top of jar for those 5 days over and above my 13.5TH that I have been adding to the mix since August.

Well, that is my attempt!!!  Hopefully I am not wrong and confuse everyone even more…

So if one of our long term experts can tell me if this concept is right or wrong that would be helpful.  I use adobe flash with my signage business, so I can maybe come up with a "video" using these assumptions with the more fitting / easier to draw mining conveyor belt (similar to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBIkfLm_8js) and colored pebbles.  But if my concept is totally wrong, then it would be a waste of most of a day's worth of time.  Some people said it would be better with 5 cookie jars (5 conveyor belts) which I would need a ton of clarification before I could do a video.

i think the trick to a good understanding is to remove all the luck and random from the explanation kinda like i did above. might work best with the conveyor belt idea with a light showing the area being watched for pay and the chunks being the work ect the belt would jst show the moving nature of course u would need to color the rocks different colors to show work from all workers and give example of 1 color being watched i think. could have a little supervisor with a clipboard watching the moving rocks under the light lol of course im jst a rookie and would love a pro chime in on the discussion to see if we are moving in the right direction here

also have a couple of questions A) how do i get promoted from newbie here lol ?and B)how do i stop kano.is from kicking me out so i have to log in again to watch ma worker %'s?
minergain.com
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 March 02, 2018, 07:25:51 PM

i think the trick to a good understanding is to remove all the luck and random from the explanation kinda like i did above. might work best with the conveyor belt idea with a light showing the area being watched for pay and the chunks being the work ect the belt would jst show the moving nature of course u would need to color the rocks different colors to show work from all workers and give example of 1 color being watched i think. could have a little supervisor with a clipboard watching the moving rocks under the light lol of course im jst a rookie and would love a pro chime in on the discussion to see if we are moving in the right direction here

also have a couple of questions A) how do i get promoted from newbie here lol ?and B)how do i stop kano.is from kicking me out so i have to log in again to watch ma worker %'s?
Thanks Gaud.  I like the light / supervisor idea.  Maybe have a row for each block found on his clipboard with a count of the colors and percentage.  I am pretty sure that the Kano site counts everything once the block is found which is why it takes a little bit before the reward is calculated.  I did manage to come up with an immediate BTC per TH that minergain shares with all miners that is pretty close based on the shares submitted.

A) You get promoted on this site based on how long you have been signed up (and possibly how many posts).  B) Yes, the kano site keeps kicking you off.  You can use one of the other monitoring sites - minergain.com keeps you logged in for quite a while and eventually will auto-update the screen without having to hit refresh.

www.minergain.com - Free miner equipment tracking and reporting
Mike is a tiny miner: 8 S9, 1 D3, 6 RX470
I mine at Kano Pool, for better BTC Profits!
AerialGopher
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 March 02, 2018, 07:48:47 PM

FUNNY!

I got the visit from local electrical company, called then right away rang the door bell, WIERD..
But I open the door, and she introduces herself, and then says that they were asked to come out and see why the meter read was so high.  I said, oh,  That is becuase I am using more power.  They kept prying and asking for more info, and I said, its going through the meter, trust me its legit.

Then I asked,  Hey, I thought you were not allowed to approach customers and ask them what they are using their power for?  She shut up pretty quick.

I said, so if my meter read was "estimated" for two months, and the last one was on Dec 8, and again, no meter reads after that....  how did you determine that there was excessive usage here with the one meter read?   Blank look...

Funny, now I have to convince them that i used ALL that 18 000 kWh in December when it was the cheapest, 3.99 cents/kWh, now its 5.18 cents!
HAHA  Next they will ask me why my gas meter read is so low... like less than 10 % of where it should be.

They actually by law are not allowed to ask what I am doing with my power, but yet they decided to do that.

I figure I'll save 260 dollars with the lower rate.
rifleman74
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 March 02, 2018, 07:56:37 PM

It's a grow facility...and you're using the heat exhaust to heat the home, no need for natural gas!
kano
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 March 02, 2018, 08:01:55 PM

...
B) Yes, the kano site keeps kicking you off.
...
Well, no, it times out just like any good banking web site does

If you use an add-on/Extension to reload every 5 minutes on the Blocks page (like I do) it doesn't time out.

Pool: https://kano.is Here on Bitcointalk: Forum BTC: 1KanoPb8cKYqNrswjaA8cRDk4FAS9eDMLU
FreeNode IRC: irc.freenode.net channel #kano.is Majority developer of the ckpool code
Help keep Bitcoin secure by mining on pools with full block verification on all blocks - and NO empty blocks!
WBF1
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 March 02, 2018, 08:08:17 PM

k lets give this padrinogtr  thing another try . let start by taking all the luck and unnecessary stuff out of the equation.  so lets start by saying there are 5 pools in the world mining the blockchain. it spits out 1 block per day.
day 1 pool 1 gets block day 2 pool 2 on down the line till pool 5 we will call that our pool . most (the other 4 pool) using the similar pay system payout WHEN they get a block with the blocks reward they do this buy looking at how much each member worked during the day and turning that into a % that compares with the rest of the workers in the pool. they are payed a % of the block = to their %. in the kano pool its the same accept we look back 5 days instead of 1 to find each workers % again u get the % according to your %. after 5 days u will get the same block payout as all the other pools (accept they have higher fees generally which makes the block smaller). the difference is it takes a whole 5 days instead of 1 to get your full % the up side if u quit or are down for 5 days u are still getting though a diminishing return as the days go by.
so bottom line kano pool pays bests over the long term due to lower fees. this system is good because if u have break downs or gaps they wont be noticed as much but the real purpose is to stop those who pool hop (try to only work for the pool that is paying on a specific day)  there goal being to get payed everyday instead of once per five days. now there is no point in pool hoppers showing up here because they wont be able to take there money and run to the next pool cause we dont pay them jst for punching in on payday.
howd i do padrinogtr i dont think i qualify for the contest anyway but id like to know if i helped though i haven't seen yer name here in awhile:D.

No offense, but I think you're actually adding unnecessary stuff to the equation.

Also, your premises are flawed

- # of pools mining and number of miners mining has no impact on anything. Only global hashrate and network difficulty (which is adjusted approximately every 2 weeks based on global hashrate) make any difference.

- in your example, those are still PPLNS payout methods if all blocks take 1 day. If that's not what you had in mind, then what you're describing is maybe "PPLND" or  proportional method with rounds equal to 1 day time frame.

- All else being equal, on a long enough time scale, the ONLY thing that makes one pool pay more than others is a lower pool fee.

- re: pool hopping, you need to read organofcorti's write up here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=104664.msg1146110#msg1146110 and here: https://bitcoil.co.il/pool_analysis.pdf

I'm not even sure what sort of questions you're asking anymore. Or what sort of explanation you're looking for.

Anonymous, no-registration, no-frills BCH Mining - http://luckypool.co - Get Lucky Today!
WBF1
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 March 02, 2018, 08:09:57 PM

Well something is going on at my house. All of my miners quit showing up at the pool at the same time. Im stuck here at work so I cant even check to see whats going on. Now im going to lose a day of mining.  . I must have either lost internet or power. This sucks.
you should look into "ausome miner" properly configured u can manage your miners from anywhere. wont help if yer house burned down or the wife ran off with your miners.

Lol if my wife runs off with anything it won’t be my miners. In fact those would probably the only thing left. I found out our internet is out. There is a line down and the service provider is trying to get it back up. Guess I have to wait.

East Coast? we're getting crazy winds today...

Anonymous, no-registration, no-frills BCH Mining - http://luckypool.co - Get Lucky Today!
BSGMiner
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 March 02, 2018, 08:25:20 PM

Well something is going on at my house. All of my miners quit showing up at the pool at the same time. Im stuck here at work so I cant even check to see whats going on. Now im going to lose a day of mining.  . I must have either lost internet or power. This sucks.
you should look into "ausome miner" properly configured u can manage your miners from anywhere. wont help if yer house burned down or the wife ran off with your miners.
Lol if my wife runs off with anything it won’t be my miners. In fact those would probably the only thing left. I found out our internet is out. There is a line down and the service provider is trying to get it back up. Guess I have to wait.
East Coast? we're getting crazy winds today...
Same for me. That's what I've been dealing with all day. My wife quickly gave up on restarting them... So much for the help desk.

The BTCest mining pool (<1% fee): KanoPool
***PPLNS payouts averaged over the 5Nd to reduce variance***
AerialGopher
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 March 02, 2018, 08:28:01 PM

Use Wifi on laptop connected to your cell phone hotspot,  Internet connection sharing between wireless and LAN on laptop, and then plug that lan into the switch for the miners,  reboot the miners to get new DHCP from laptop.

Or replace cell phone with any USB internet key or similar.
Or directional antenna pointed to the local store that has free wifi.
I have had to do this, works like a charm.
wavelengthsf
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 March 02, 2018, 08:49:56 PM

Well something is going on at my house. All of my miners quit showing up at the pool at the same time. Im stuck here at work so I cant even check to see whats going on. Now im going to lose a day of mining.  . I must have either lost internet or power. This sucks.

The good news is that because of the 5ND, you won't lose much rewards.

Likely your internet went out, or you could've lost power.

mutko
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 March 02, 2018, 08:58:27 PM

Use Wifi on laptop connected to your cell phone hotspot,  Internet connection sharing between wireless and LAN on laptop, and then plug that lan into the switch for the miners,  reboot the miners to get new DHCP from laptop.

Or replace cell phone with any USB internet key or similar.
Or directional antenna pointed to the local store that has free wifi.
I have had to do this, works like a charm.

+1
kano
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 March 02, 2018, 09:37:12 PM

...
- All else being equal, on a long enough time scale, the ONLY thing that makes one pool pay more than others is a lower pool fee.
...
Yes, but the "All else being equal" also includes pool hash rate to some extent.
If the pool gets too small - as I've been trying to avoid over the last couple of months and will hopefully have some more hash rate here soon again - the diff changes also can affect your reward dramatically.

This is why I mention on occasion "as long as we are expected to find a number of blocks each diff change"
The issue is that if you're mining for multiple diff changes per block, then your reward loses around half the diff change from start to finish.

A simple example is that since 13-Jan difficulty has increased by 55.73% (yeah that's a scary number)
So if you were mining from say 10-Jan to now and then found a block, you'd actually lose over 25% of your expected reward!
All your shares from then to now have different PPS values, but your reward is based on 'now', the much worse PPS value.

This also affects us here to a lesser extent due to the fact we don't expect to find many blocks per diff change.
Thus why I'm trying to get that hash rate back up again.

Small pools like to pretend this doesn't happen

Pool: https://kano.is Here on Bitcointalk: Forum BTC: 1KanoPb8cKYqNrswjaA8cRDk4FAS9eDMLU
FreeNode IRC: irc.freenode.net channel #kano.is Majority developer of the ckpool code
Help keep Bitcoin secure by mining on pools with full block verification on all blocks - and NO empty blocks!
kano
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 March 02, 2018, 09:58:33 PM

511587 payout sent about a quarter of an hour ago and now first confirm

Pool: https://kano.is Here on Bitcointalk: Forum BTC: 1KanoPb8cKYqNrswjaA8cRDk4FAS9eDMLU
FreeNode IRC: irc.freenode.net channel #kano.is Majority developer of the ckpool code
Help keep Bitcoin secure by mining on pools with full block verification on all blocks - and NO empty blocks!
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