KanoPool since 2014 🐈 - PPLNS and Solo 0.5% fee - Worldwide - 2435 blocks

[comby]

Hard times, without finding a block it's even harder to stay at Kano for me - even when you get much more % share of a block compared to slush for example, if there's no block withing 80 hrs now it might be better to switch back to another pool?

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[firetreeactual]

Hard times, without finding a block it's even harder to stay at Kano for me - even when you get much more % share of a block compared to slush for example, if there's no block withing 80 hrs now it might be better to switch back to another pool?

Look back on this thread (yeah, I know...the Black Lagoon of info...makes one learn to use the search function) to my post as to when I was forced to go back to Slush a couple of months ago due to my own poor Core management. Anyway...after almost five weeks mining on Slush (which did solve my temporary problem), I compared my revenue for that period to what it would have been at Kano with the same hash, at 5Nd...and I would have earned over 30% more here. FWIW...I mined at Slush for the first year or two of pool (as opposed to solo) mining, until Kano started his pool.

If you need a payout "threshold" or daily payouts, and don't care about transparency, then go to Slush. If you want to make more over the long haul with a pool operator who is transparent, stay here. If you can't afford to handle the variance here, well...with all good intentions...maybe you should look for another hobby.

Best to all.  

[Shazam!!!]

Hard times, without finding a block it's even harder to stay at Kano for me - even when you get much more % share of a block compared to slush for example, if there's no block withing 80 hrs now it might be better to switch back to another pool?

You've got to do what you think is best. You've also got to take the good with the bad, this is the nature of Bitcoin mining.
Before you bounce though, look back through the thread and see how many people came back here, regretting how they left
during a hard spot. Goodluck!!!

[minergain.com]

No. You can now send a transaction with a tiny fee coz blocks are rarely full.
See here for an idea of the fees: https://btc.com/

It will be reasonable low now, but if your wallet does not allow customization of the fee, it still may be a bit higher.  I use the bitcoin core wallet where you can pick the transactions to send, set the threshold to the minimum (especially these times) and set the ability to change your fee after the fact - in case you set it too low and have waited weeks already.

[rifleman74]

Hard times, without finding a block it's even harder to stay at Kano for me - even when you get much more % share of a block compared to slush for example, if there's no block withing 80 hrs now it might be better to switch back to another pool?

All depends on how you can ride this out.   Just may find the next block very soon + 1 right afterward...then what?

You'll still get paid until your 5nd runs out so it wouldn't be a total loss if you left for another pool.   Pretty sure you'll be back though. 


MINE ON WITH KANO-SAN!

[minergain.com]

Kano, what is the status on setting a minimum payout threshold?

I want to come back, but paying the fees for all those small transactions add up fast. Having a payout minimum setting would help the miners out a lot

Yes, lots of blocks can be a pain, but it also prevents theft like we saw at nicehash a month ago. If you plan properly and consolidate when the blockchain is low (like now), you can get 20 blocks consolidated for under a buck.  If you fail to plan and need a quick transfer when the BTC market is hot, you could pay close to $100 for those same 20 blocks.  I have my minergain blockchain alert setup and consolidate my blocks monthly when I get the email.

[minergain.com]

Was just going through my trezor wallet mining payments. I had my pool settings for .01 payouts, and have been paying an average of .002-.003 per payout. Multiply this by smaller, more often payouts from kano pool and this will be very significant. These are client side(yes you don't pay for the tx on the mining end but you do on the wallet side, and unavoidable as far as I know of.

You can get by with .00001 BTC per Kb for confirmation in a day or so.  to have it go in an hour, it would be .00003 BTC/Kb.  You can see real time prices at https://minergain.com/faq.html#btctxfees.  Remember that if your wallet gives you the option, YOU are in control of what you pay (and it remembers your last setting).  If you pay .1 BTC per KB, the miners will happily take it and you will never see a warning!  Make sure you have lots of leading zeros - and when consolidating, I always have 4 leading zeros.

[dutchlincoln]

Pretty sure you'll be back though. 


MINE ON WITH KANO-SAN!

yeah... Some keep telling this, but mining for a while here now, and profit sucks sofar...

the "almost one block a day" is definately not showing... Rward within 2 weeks so far is 0.0689Bitcoin with 135Th mining... (and very unstable speeds lately..)

[CryptoStash]

Hard times, without finding a block it's even harder to stay at Kano for me - even when you get much more % share of a block compared to slush for example, if there's no block withing 80 hrs now it might be better to switch back to another pool?

I did the math myself recently, (much as I love Kano, I can't pay my bills with said love, and although it's been a fantastic streak, I was looking at the numbers from before to forecast what may be on the horizon...shame I didn't start 6 months ago though, the luckiest day ever in history of the pool was my birthday  ) and came to the following numbers.

I use BTC.com pool as a benchmark because they simply buy your hashrate without any concern for blocks as a PPS pool. Mind you at the time I did the numbers there were paying .00007btc per 1TH/24hrs and they were very competitive but presently it is 0.00006369.

0.00006369 * 13.5 = 0.000859815, this would be your daily payout from that pool, per one 13.5 S9.

I will use my personal example from last week since I have the exact numbers.
I left one 13/TH Antminer on Kano as I experimented with Slush, I used five 13.5/TH to experiment.

For 5 13.5, 67.5TH/s, I had following results:
33916   2018-04-10 23:34   05:46:19   3.351 Eh/s   67.81 Th/s   0.00024888 BTC   12.54996593 BTC   Confirmed
33915   2018-04-10 17:48   00:33:41   3.013 Eh/s   67.54 Th/s   0.00027510 BTC   12.52368187 BTC   Confirmed
33914   2018-04-10 17:14   02:47:57   3.039 Eh/s   68.62 Th/s   0.00027981 BTC   12.64686116 BTC   Confirmed
33913   2018-04-10 14:27   00:43:35   3.016 Eh/s   68.83 Th/s   0.00027956 BTC   12.50000000 BTC   Confirmed
33912   2018-04-10 13:43   01:21:40   3.190 Eh/s   66.89 Th/s   0.00026867 BTC   13.07266917 BTC   Confirmed
33905   2018-04-10 03:37   00:31:59   3.113 Eh/s   67.34 Th/s   0.00027040 BTC   12.75687432 BTC   Confirmed
33904   2018-04-10 03:05   00:41:13   3.127 Eh/s   66.69 Th/s   0.00026619 BTC   12.73560489 BTC   Confirmed
33903   2018-04-10 02:24   00:21:42   3.103 Eh/s   67.55 Th/s   0.00026775 BTC   12.55257875 BTC   Confirmed
33902   2018-04-10 02:02   00:59:23   3.125 Eh/s   68.05 Th/s   0.00027095 BTC   12.69525009 BTC   Confirmed
33901   2018-04-10 01:02   00:23:59   3.145 Eh/s   69.44 Th/s   0.00027396 BTC   12.66235828 BTC   Confirmed
33900   2018-04-10 00:38   01:31:59   3.156 Eh/s   68.81 Th/s   0.00026848 BTC   12.56620147 BTC   Confirmed
33899   2018-04-09 23:06   01:22:16   3.081 Eh/s   69.54 Th/s   0.00028001 BTC   12.66047494 BTC   Confirmed

Obviously the reward changes a bit as the total hashrate of the pool is different every time but as you can see, if we use .000265 as the average reward, divide by 5 and 0.000053 per block, per 13.5TH S9.

Now between BTC.com's 0.000859815 and Slushpool's 0.000053 per block, Slushpool would have to hit 16.22292452830189 blocks in order to equal BTC.com in pay.

https://blockchain.info/pools?timespan=24hours  As you can see Slush is not so hot these days, they barely find 16 blocks a day. Between Slush and BTC.com pool; it's a gamble with Slush, if they hit above that mark, you're up for the day. This sounds better for Slush now, when BTC.com was paying .00007, it was really tough to justify Slush.

Here is where it gets complicated in comparison to Kano, due to the extremely long ramp-up 'N' time as well as the fact that this pool has grown exponentially in the past 2 months.
Look at these rewards from the crazy lucky streak, back when I had only three 13.5 plugged in, and fully ramped up.

516020   2018-Mar-31 20:47   12.66858129   17.337T   213hr 20m 55s   96.95PHs   0.04%   7.338G   41.03THs   0.00536169
515930   2018-Mar-31 02:59   12.52731734   17.373T   219hr 21m 31s   94.49PHs   0.04%   7.542G   41.02THs   0.00543824
515768   2018-Mar-30 02:09   12.42904762   17.329T   226hr 56m 50s   91.10PHs   0.05%   7.806G   41.03THs   0.00559841
515733   2018-Mar-29 21:11   12.55251359   17.335T   228hr 51m 5s   90.37PHs   0.05%   7.872G   41.04THs   0.00570009
515627   2018-Mar-29 05:24   12.80891903   17.326T   235hr 5m 21s   87.93PHs   0.05%   8.088G   41.04THs   0.00597906

Here we see that my hashrate did not change but the pool grew from 87.93 to 96.95, just over 10% growth. In order to try and make it a relevant comparison, let's compare blocks 515733 and 515930 as they have the closest reward value. (albeit off by .025 btc)
My value: .00544(round up 0.0001 value due to 12.527 vs 12.552) / 0.00570= .95263158
Pool Hash: 94.49 / 90.37 = .9563975
Therefore we see that the change in pool hashrate reflects on my reward in almost 1:1 proportionate impact, likely even closer in value than we see here due to decimal place roundoffs.

For my own intents and purposes, it comes down to the math between BTC.com's  80.5 (my hashrate) * 0.00006369 = 0.005127045 daily payouts, or taking a chance on Kano.
I never actually got all 80.5 ramped up yet on Kano but my closest were the following:

517766   2018-Apr-11 22:53   12.46209736   17.597T   147hr 38m 28s   142.20PHs   0.04%   7.486G   60.49THs   0.00530171
517439   2018-Apr-09 22:14   12.42955536   17.635T   157hr 58m 38s   133.18PHs   0.06%   10.442G   78.86THs   0.00735984
517236   2018-Apr-08 14:46   12.51144999   17.607T   168hr 7m 29s   124.95PHs   0.06%   10.096G   71.65THs   0.00717432
516833   2018-Apr-06 02:10   12.41349521   17.627T   184hr 34m 31s   113.94PHs   0.05%   8.679G   56.10THs   0.00611235

This was during the time I experimented elsewhere while leaving one 13.0 on Kano, and then coming back.

Unfortunately I need a better understanding of or a better written explanation of the ramp process with regards to changes in personal hashrate and its effects on ramp calculation in order to ascertain whether there is some kind of sweet spot.. for example whether going to Slush or Btc.com until Kano hits x% shares, and then coming back would be beneficial or not in comparison to just sitting on here the whole time, etc. (I see the

Would love to know more details on how exactly that long ramp up impacts rewards (I am not a math wizard by any means but I am genuinely curious) and how the calculations fluctuate when you're not just plugged in 24/7, because even after having experimented around, I'm not sure if I'm calculating the differences correctly or able to calculate hypothetically since I'm trying to make sense of the results to figure out the formula (ramp up vs ramp loss), nor am I sure whether I lost money by jumping to the hot pool then coming back or not. (I understand the fundamental difference between PPS and PPLNS, but the long ramp up period throws me off on calculating possibilities.. sometimes shifts get paid 6+ times, sometimes only 3-4 times.. etc)

As you can see though if you do stay fully ramped up, if and when this pool hits a lucky stride, it blows any other pool out of the water. Look at the last four blocks of March, 0.02208 BTC with 41.04 TH's in 3 days. I don't know what BTC.com was paying at that time but even with a .00007 assumption, 3 days would've only paid 0.008505 on three 13.5's. 0.02208 - 0.008505 = 0.013575 BTC. Huge difference for 3 Antminers. Of course one has to consider the ramp up time leading upto this streak, and the cost of that along the way.

[rifleman74]

Pretty sure you'll be back though. 


MINE ON WITH KANO-SAN!

yeah... Some keep telling this, but mining for a while here now, and profit sucks sofar...

the "almost one block a day" is definately not showing... Rward within 2 weeks so far is 0.0689Bitcoin with 135Th mining... (and very unstable speeds lately..)

You're doing it wrong.   Pools go through lucky and unlucky streaks, you joined after an extremely lucky period.   We're still just on average with last month right now, one more block gets us there before EOD.   

[Shazam!!!]

The feeling of hard times can come quickly, when not finding a block "on time". People who expect, or are used to, daily "on line calculator" payouts, have a hard time getting comfortable here. That IS NOT a pool problem, by any means. It's psychological.
Everyone would like to see the future in pools, and BITCOIN in general, but we can't. Not knowing when we'll be rewarded can
be overwhelming for some. It is what it is.

By judging numbers only after a couple of weeks, we cannot possibly gain enough accurate information, to achieve realistic answers.
I fully understand some people have a hard time managing payouts, to make deadlines with utilities and their cost. Also not a Pool problem. There are many a veteran miner here, who have managed many th/s - ph/s worth of gear, and stay moving forward.

This pool is gaining momentum, and soon enough, it will have enough hashrate to overcome some of this "problem" some people have.
The pool has grown, and as a result, shares are smaller--ATM. The Hashrate is at an akward point, where it's got momentum, but needs
that little bit more to get daily rewards. It's closer than we think. Those of us mining for the long game, will see those results.
More frequent rewards=More earnings and better Profitability.

[shellyfinest]

Well I’m not going anywhere and looking to more pool growth, I think most here understand the luck varies... wasn’t it just a few days ago that like 3 blocks were found in 24 hrs? Really need the numbers avg over time like many are saying

[minergain.com]

Can you explain what you mean consolidate, everyone keeps mentioning this, but I'm not understanding. Consolidating means to combine, what are people combining?

Happy to...  I am going to put this on the forum too - because it is an important concept.

When you transfer your currency, you need to pay a transaction fee to "grease" the process.  The higher the fee you pay per byte, the quicker miners will add your transaction into the next mining block.  If you have lots of small transactions, this can become a bit of a cost.  For that reason, it is best to consolidate your small transaction into a bigger one by transferring everything from your mining address into another address once a month or so. 

Unlike banking or credit card fees that are often a percent of the dollars you transfer, crypto currencies (including BitCoin) have a fee for the number of bytes you "send" to someone.  So if you are a miner, you will receive lots of small transactions - each of which are roughly 190 bytes if you pay someone with BTC.  So if you have 20 payments that you received for mining (it could be .0001 BTC or 1 BTC for each payment), it is roughly 3,800 bytes or a little under 4k of data.  When BitCoin is heavily in the news and the price is going up, it can cost $30 to $50 per kb to have a transaction complete in an hour or two.  So in this example, it could be $200 to send these 20 blocks to someone.  If you have a week or two to wait, you can probably get it to transfer for around $10 to $15 during these popular times.

In times when the hype is lower, you can get by with the minimum mining fee of .00001 BTC per KB, so it is a great time to turn those 20 blocks into 1.  To consolidate your mining, you create another receiving address in your wallet (usually simple by clicking the receive funds button and clicking on a button or link similar to "create a new address".  I usually name it consolidate1 (and I also have a consolidate2 that I alternate the payment to).  Then go to the send BTC button and paste in this new address.  Put in your total wallet value so that everything gets sent back to yourself.  Set the miner fee to the minimum and check the box to allow that fee to be changed at a later time (just in case it is too low and has not happened in a couple weeks).  Once the "payment" to yourself is made, that changes it from 20 transactions into a single one.

If you cannot set the fee directly to .00001 BTC per KB (the lowest value), there may be a configuration setting to use low mining fees.  I know that jaxx has this option - which still will cost more than .00001 BTC per KB, but it helps.  If your wallet does not have the ability to specify the miner fee, you should consider having your mining proceeds go to a different wallet that does.  I usually consolidate my rewards each month and once I get about .1 BTC, I transfer everything to my hardware wallet (again using the lowest miner fee).

Remember that you must not use automatic mining fees to get the best benefit - although even the automatic ones will be much lower now than when BitCoin is popular.  In order to know when is a good time to consolidate, you can setup a weekly email with a free account at minergain.com.  You can also check out the recommended miner fees at https://www.minergain.com/faq.html#btctxfees.

[minergain.com]

What does not make sense to me is the need to consolidate.

You never need to consolidate - they are always in your wallet ready to spend.  It is only an issue when you want to move your money around.  If we hit $40,000 per BTC and you decide you want to pull out $10 or 20k, wouldn't it be nice to spend $10 to do that (with one transaction) versus several hundred if you had 50 to 100 transactions?  

Obviously if you consolidate every 10 transactions while the mining fees are low, you will be spending a quarter to fifty cents each time you do it - and it may take a few days for the "payment" to happen, but once you get it to a single transaction under a different address, then when mining fees get high again, you are only paying for one block rather than hundreds.  So as I have heard - size matters, but in this case, the smaller size is the best since it has the lowest fees.  

[firetreeactual]

Just two comments before I go back to spring cleaning...

One doesn't need to consolidate if one keeps their coin in their Core...not in some online wallet or vault or whatever.

And...I'm anxiously awaiting that "plateau" that some of us expect at a certain point. When I started mining at Kano, the pool was less than 10PH.

It'll come. No worries.

[rifleman74]

What does not make sense to me is the need to consolidate.

You never need to consolidate - they are always in your wallet ready to spend.  It is only an issue when you want to move your money around.  If we hit $40,000 per BTC and you decide you want to pull out $10 or 20k, wouldn't it be nice to spend $10 to do that (with one transaction) versus several hundred if you had 50 to 100 transactions?  

Obviously if you consolidate every 10 transactions while the mining fees are low, you will be spending a quarter to fifty cents each time you do it - and it may take a few days for the "payment" to happen, but once you get it to a single transaction under a different address, then when mining fees get high again, you are only paying for one block rather than hundreds.  So as I have heard - size matters, but in this case, the smaller size is the best since it has the lowest fees.  

The thing is right now, any "fee" is being processed by the blockchain.  Never had any consolidation last more than 2-3 network blocks, someone always picks it up.

[minergain.com]

Gotcha. Let me try an analogy:

We get paid in gumballs(mining rewards) with which we put into a bottomless jar(wallet). If we wanted to move some to another jar(buying/any other wallet/etc) it would take a little work to gather them all up to reach the amount of total gumballs we need. If we mash them together to one giant gumball we can move the one large gumball more easily.

That is to say, these small transactions stay fragmented, until we combine them all into one large pot. If we leave them small, we have to combine them before we are able to then spend them as a sum.

Is that kind of whats happening?

That is a great analogy (and tasty).  I am going to tweak it a little bit so that the gumball has the value printed on the outside (like an m&m).  I am doing that because no matter what the value, each gumball is the same size.  When you decide to move your gumballs, it goes into a fixed size jar that the miners convert to a block - lets say that it holds 100 gumballs.  If it takes 20 gumballs to buy that new miner (or pay your power), you are using up 1/5 of the miner jar.  The miners grab the gumballs that pay the most first. 

When prices are high, some people pay hundreds of dollars per gumball so that it gets picked up by the miners and moves quickly.  Obviously people like us putting a quarter per gumball will not get picked up, so if we need to have our BTC moved quickly, we need to pay at least $25 per block to get it moved in a week during these high fee times.  When miner fees are low like they are now, we can put 50 gumballs into the jar for pennies, and the miners are happy to make something versus empty blocks with no mining fees.  So our 50 gumballs get converted into one gumball (the same size but a new larger value printed on the outside).

[minergain.com]

One doesn't need to consolidate if one keeps their coin in their Core...not in some online wallet or vault or whatever.

I am not sure I agree with this comment.  I use core and there is still a transaction per reward from what I can tell.  If you send it to an exchange, then it is probably a single transaction to send (and you have the risk of it being stolen).  Plus when you send funds from the exchange, they pick the miner fee, not you.  Can you help me understand why it would not matter with core?

[nazzer]

Hard times, without finding a block it's even harder to stay at Kano for me - even when you get much more % share of a block compared to slush for example, if there's no block withing 80 hrs now it might be better to switch back to another pool?

I used to think that.

Truth is Slush has unlucky streaks too, and due to the nature of Slush's scoring PPLNS (1.5 hour ramp, exponential increase/decrease) I was getting less in reality.

Came back here - whilst not happy to hit another 500% block - I saw more than a few 500% blocks at Slush during my brief "Holiday"

[BSGMiner]

Wow... Sad state of affairs here with people talking of jumping ship at the sniff of a 250% block.

Nobody says a thing when we hit single or double digit % blocks in back to back (to back) fashion. It's all dancin' and chicken but not when we hit those once-a-quarter or once-a-year block %s--oh, no... You do realize that the fees and the payout structure are essentially the only mechanical differences between pools, right? Contrary to popular belief, Kano seems human too--or just really convincing AI... Hmm. Anyway, where was I?

Ah, yes... Paying more in fees elsewhere will result in less rewards. And, paying less fees elsewhere will result in going somewhere that will take way longer to find blocks than here. KanoPool is the happy medium you're looking for, and your heart and mind tells you this is true, but alas commitments are hard, and people in general are second-guessers as well as impatient in this age of instant gratification. Look around. Don't be those people.

Simply put, You can be a part of a 10PH pool and get a big payout every other week or a 100PH pool and get blocks 10x faster with 10x smaller payouts. The math is the same. I rarely make all-caps public service announcements, but here goes...

THIS IS A TEST OF THE EMERGENCY LOGIC SYSTEM:

YOU CAN'T HAVE YOUR CAKE AND EAT IT TOO!
LEARN TO BUDGET YOUR UTILITY EXPENSES!
CONSOLIDATE YOUR MINING PAYOUTS!
TOUGHEN UP BUTTERCUP!
LOOK BOTH WAYS BEFORE CROSSING THE STREET!
DON'T SPIT INTO THE WIND!
DON'T EAT YELLOW SNOW!

MINE ON WITH KANOPOOL!!!

THIS HAS BEEN A TEST OF THE EMERGENCY LOGIC SYSTEM!