KanoPool since 2014 🐈 - PPLNS and Solo 0.5% fee - Worldwide - 2435 blocks

[nazzer]

Wow... Sad state of affairs here with people talking of jumping ship at the sniff of a 250% block.

Nobody says a thing when we hit single or double digit % blocks in back to back (to back) fashion. It's all dancin' and chicken but not when we hit those once-a-quarter or once-a-year block %s--oh, no... You do realize that the fees and the payout structure are essentially the only mechanical differences between pools, right? Contrary to popular belief, Kano seems human too--or just really convincing AI... Hmm. Anyway, where was I?

Ah, yes... Paying more in fees elsewhere will result in less rewards. And, paying less fees elsewhere will result in going somewhere that will take way longer to find blocks than here. KanoPool is the happy medium you're looking for, and your heart and mind tells you this is true, but alas commitments are hard, and people in general are second-guessers as well as impatient in this age of instant gratification. Look around. Don't be those people.

Simply put, You can be a part of a 10PH pool and get a big payout every other week or a 100PH pool and get blocks 10x faster with 10x smaller payouts. The math is the same. I rarely make all-caps public service announcements, but here goes...

DON'T PANIC

Pool is still holding steady at ~144 PH/s, nobody's jumped ship yet 

[1713987283]

1713987283

[nazzer]

https://imgur.com/gallery/40124?s=sms


Granted i'm very green still to the mining side. If you're correct, then what exactly is this? Seems a lot like a "banking" style fee. Would appreciate figuring out if i'm just dumb, or something is going on.

Mind sharing the TX ID or your public BTC address? These don't look like transactions from Kano's pool at all.

Are you sending mining proceeds to a 3rd party wallet that then sends you 0.01 BTC once you've accumulated that much from mining?

[firetreeactual]

One doesn't need to consolidate if one keeps their coin in their Core...not in some online wallet or vault or whatever.

I am not sure I agree with this comment.  I use core and there is still a transaction per reward from what I can tell.  If you send it to an exchange, then it is probably a single transaction to send (and you have the risk of it being stolen).  Plus when you send funds from the exchange, they pick the miner fee, not you.  Can you help me understand why it would not matter with core?

You're saying that when Kano sends you a single payout (ie., block reward) directly to your Core receiving address, you're being charged a tx fee on your end? Oooohhhhh-kay.

[Par Avion]

https://imgur.com/gallery/40124?s=sms


Granted i'm very green still to the mining side. If you're correct, then what exactly is this? Seems a lot like a "banking" style fee. Would appreciate figuring out if i'm just dumb, or something is going on.

Mind sharing the TX ID or your public BTC address? These don't look like transactions from Kano's pool at all.

Are you sending mining proceeds to a 3rd party wallet that then sends you 0.01 BTC once you've accumulated that much from mining?

Never stated that it was from Kano pool. I don't want to share the txid/add for obvious reasons.

Its a simple payout threshold on slush. It doesn't appear I'm paying those fees, but I have no idea what that is. The excel doc is generated through trezors interface.

All this mystery aside, I would still love to see a payout threshold on kano to avoid having to consolidate as often. Luckily right now fees are more or less negligible but down the road this could proof to be more than just a minor nuisance. I still argue that development to make the website and UI more user friendly is a very worthwhile venture for the future of this pool.

[BSGMiner]

DON'T PANIC

Pool is still holding steady at ~144 PH/s, nobody's jumped ship yet 

I ain't goin' nowhere!

MINE ON WITH KANO!!!

[thedreamer]

160PH

[kano]

Hard times, without finding a block it's even harder to stay at Kano for me - even when you get much more % share of a block compared to slush for example, if there's no block withing 80 hrs now it might be better to switch back to another pool?

I did the math myself recently
...

Unfortunately, there's a major misunderstanding in your post.
You can not predict luck.
Luck is only a measurement of the past.

In Bitcoin (and any other random set of events) past luck has no affect on future performance.
If we have a 700% block now, the next block after it can also be 700%, or 1% or 42% or 666% or whatever.
If we get a 1% block, the next block after it can also be 1%, or 900% or 50% or whatever.
As can the next 10 or 20 or 50 blocks ...

You can not ever say that there is a time to mine on a PPLNS pool.
That's assuming you can predict luck - which you cannot do.

You simply mine on a PPLNS pool and understand that luck goes up and down randomly.

It's funny how we've had way better than expected luck for over a month, then suddenly when we are working on a single block over 200% people start to wonder if there is something wrong.
Clearly statistics is not a strong point for many, but statistics plays the BIGGEST role in understanding PPLNS mining.
See on the previous page.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=789369.msg34742704#msg34742704

You can be certain, however, that mining on a PPS pool will pay you less in the long term, than mining on a big enough PPLNS pool that is trustworthy.
If you can't see past each long block on a PPLNS pool, then you should be mining on PPS and be certain of getting less reward.

If you need to understand why a PPS pool MUST charge you more than a PPLNS pool then have a read here:
https://bitcoil.co.il/pool_analysis.pdf

On any trustworthy PPLNS pool you expect 100% luck minus orphans minus fees.

You wont get that every block, you WONT get that every 100 blocks.
You might see that every 500, 1000 or maybe 2000 or more blocks.

But you won't see it always low or always high - you'll see it going up and down.
That is the nature of random events.

--

I had a look at your shift graph and am glad to see that you still do have your hash rate here.
So I did a calculation of your total Shares and Rewards as at the time I did it - which of course includes the 240+% of Shares which have so far had no Rewards so far at all.

Your total PPS reward (PPS%) since you've been mining on the pool is ... 106.3% PPS

How I calculate this is: for every share you submit, it will be in a network block with a specific difficulty.
Group them all together for the same difficulty.
Thus for each sum of shares I can determine the 100% PPS value of that sum of shares.
Add up all the sums S
Add up all your rewards R

Your total mining PPS% is R/S

But if you were to stop mining today, then any blocks found in the 5Nd after you stop would increase that R value but (of course) have no effect on the S value after you stop mining, so if we do find more blocks, as is expected, if you stopped, you'd expect to have an even higher total PPS% rewarded than that.

I guess there may also be some question about how much the PPS pool is actually paying you.

[Nick_01]

probably need to call a shaman, that he would conduct the rite, and caused good luck to us 

[kano]

One doesn't need to consolidate if one keeps their coin in their Core...not in some online wallet or vault or whatever.

I am not sure I agree with this comment.  I use core and there is still a transaction per reward from what I can tell.  If you send it to an exchange, then it is probably a single transaction to send (and you have the risk of it being stolen).  Plus when you send funds from the exchange, they pick the miner fee, not you.  Can you help me understand why it would not matter with core?

You're saying that when Kano sends you a single payout (ie., block reward) directly to your Core receiving address, you're being charged a tx fee on your end? Oooohhhhh-kay.

To expand on this

Your Rewards are listed on the pool.
They happen to be 99.1% of the Blocks since I charge a 0.9% fee.

When I send Rewards to you, you get that Reward value, not some lower value with another fee taken out for whatever unreasonable reason.

If your Reward for a block was 0.1 BTC, then you will get 0.1 BTC in your target 'wallet'

When you spend the BTC in your wallet, the amount of fees you pay is your choice.

If you use "Coin Control" in a Core wallet, you can choose the inputs to cover the BTC you wish to spend.
So you can spend 1 or 10 or 100 inputs to cover the BTC output you require.
The more inputs you use, the higher the transaction fee you will need to send it from your wallet, to determine how long it will take to be confirmed.
At the moment that is quite low for even a 50 input transaction.

If the person you are sending it to also charges a fee ... that is also your choice.
There is NO reason for them to charge a fee based on the size of your single transaction.
NO reason at all.
They may charge a fee based on the BTC amount of your transaction ... but the amount of BTC you send has nothing to do with the txn fee you choose to use to send it to them.
So if you earn 1000 BTC here and 1000 BTC somewhere else, the fees you need to pay for sending the BTC from your wallet, will of course depend on how may inputs you choose.
But the target will see it at 1000 BTC no matter how big the transaction is.

So here if you are spending all your BTC for the March and April so far - it would be 29 inputs.
If instead you left all that BTC in another pool until today, then cash it out, it may well only be one input when you try to spend it.
However, there's also the question of how much it costs to cash it out.

[nazzer]

https://imgur.com/gallery/40124?s=sms


Granted i'm very green still to the mining side. If you're correct, then what exactly is this? Seems a lot like a "banking" style fee. Would appreciate figuring out if i'm just dumb, or something is going on.

Mind sharing the TX ID or your public BTC address? These don't look like transactions from Kano's pool at all.

Are you sending mining proceeds to a 3rd party wallet that then sends you 0.01 BTC once you've accumulated that much from mining?

Never stated that it was from Kano pool. I don't want to share the txid/add for obvious reasons.

Its a simple payout threshold on slush. It doesn't appear I'm paying those fees, but I have no idea what that is. The excel doc is generated through trezors interface.

If you had stated this earlier nobody would've gotten confused.

[userghost]

Well guys 3 days and no block. Longest ive ever had to wait before, (I'm relatively new) it sucks, but I'm sticking with it! I know luck varies a lot and next block could be 500% after this one, or 5%. As long as we find another block or 2 to cover my electric in the next 2 weeks I'm happy camper! Also, city just upgraded power to my house today, more hashrate will be incoming soon!

[swanny88]

I'm not going anywhere myself.  I'm a fairly new miner but I totally understand luck.  Good and bad luck.

[minergain.com]

One doesn't need to consolidate if one keeps their coin in their Core...not in some online wallet or vault or whatever.

I am not sure I agree with this comment.  I use core and there is still a transaction per reward from what I can tell.  If you send it to an exchange, then it is probably a single transaction to send (and you have the risk of it being stolen).  Plus when you send funds from the exchange, they pick the miner fee, not you.  Can you help me understand why it would not matter with core?

You're saying that when Kano sends you a single payout (ie., block reward) directly to your Core receiving address, you're being charged a tx fee on your end? Oooohhhhh-kay.

oh - misread it.  There definitely is no fee to receive the block payment.  But when I send it out, there is which is why I consolidate during low miner fee times - that was where I was confused.

[BSGMiner]

Well guys 3 days and no block. Longest ive ever had to wait before, (I'm relatively new) it sucks, but I'm sticking with it! I know luck varies a lot and next block could be 500% after this one, or 5%. As long as we find another block or 2 to cover my electric in the next 2 weeks I'm happy camper! Also, city just upgraded power to my house today, more hashrate will be incoming soon!

While we're waiting for this next block to crack, I'll just quickly recount my fist ramped up block--yes, the one that inspired the first line of my sig...

Once upon a time, I paid a lot for an Avalon6 a month after Bitcoin peaked and everybody and their mother, apparently, decided to start mining these coins of bits. After 30 hours, woohoo, I contributed to my first block at my pool-4-life: KanoPool. Life was good because I was just above the dust threshold. Alright, time for the next one, let's go!

Well, a few days passed(!), then a week(?!), then two(?!!!??!???!?)... 18 days, ~600%, and ~$60 in electricity later... an $8 payout. Yep. It is what it is. Still here too. Why? Because I trust the math behind it all, Kano, and most importantly the friend that pointed me here as well as the friends I've made on this forum.

The happy ending is here that for each of the excruciating days I had to wait for that first ramped up block, we've had double and even triple block days that more than made up for that rough start.

"If it wasn't for the bitter, the sweet wouldn't be so sweet"

Mine on with Kano!

[AerialGopher]

 F N Fat BLOCKS suck!

I am going to Tim Hortons to get a Chilli, then I am going to 7-11 to get a super big gulp to add to my gaseouse night...  and by the time I am eating, and drinking that drink. .......

THIS BLOCK WILL BE  CRUSHED!!!!!!!
If not, I will fart on it!

[BSGMiner]

...I had a look at your shift graph and am glad to see that you still do have your hash rate here.
So I did a calculation of your total Shares and Rewards as at the time I did it - which of course includes the 240+% of Shares which have so far had no Rewards so far at all.

Your total PPS reward (PPS%) since you've been mining on the pool is ... 106.3% PPS

Bravo for going above and beyond, Kano!

Is my understanding correct that on a PPS pool, this 106% would be impossible due to miners only ever getting paid 100% minus the PPS pool fee--2%, for example--which would always be 98%?

It seems that the only way to look at this is that they are paying a higher fee for more frequent payouts.

[kano]

...I had a look at your shift graph and am glad to see that you still do have your hash rate here.
So I did a calculation of your total Shares and Rewards as at the time I did it - which of course includes the 240+% of Shares which have so far had no Rewards so far at all.

Your total PPS reward (PPS%) since you've been mining on the pool is ... 106.3% PPS

Bravo for going above and beyond, Kano!

Is my understanding correct that on a PPS pool, this 106% would be impossible due to miners only ever getting paid 100% minus the PPS pool fee--2%, for example--which would always be 98%?

It seems that the only way to look at this is that they are paying a higher fee for more frequent payouts.

Well the PPS% of course depends on the luck when you are mining + the 5Nd after that if you stop.

It will be different for everyone on the pool.

The Blocks page shows the average - PAPPS% - which again will be different for everyone on the pool - some above - some below.
But most people should be close to it if they have been mining for quite a while.
... and very close to it if they've been mining with a consistent hash rate.

If you've only been here for a short while, then your PPS% would vary quite a lot from the pool average.
Again it could be up or down, it just depends on luck.

... and of course since this is a PPLNS pool, not a PPS pool, the variance with a small number of blocks can be quite high.

[firetreeactual]

One doesn't need to consolidate if one keeps their coin in their Core...not in some online wallet or vault or whatever.

I am not sure I agree with this comment.  I use core and there is still a transaction per reward from what I can tell.  If you send it to an exchange, then it is probably a single transaction to send (and you have the risk of it being stolen).  Plus when you send funds from the exchange, they pick the miner fee, not you.  Can you help me understand why it would not matter with core?

You're saying that when Kano sends you a single payout (ie., block reward) directly to your Core receiving address, you're being charged a tx fee on your end? Oooohhhhh-kay.

oh - misread it.  There definitely is no fee to receive the block payment.  But when I send it out, there is which is why I consolidate during low miner fee times - that was where I was confused.

Gotcha. No worries.

[Nick_01]

block-block-block, we need a block BTC 

[userghost]

Kano, I think you need to bribe somebody to find a block! You should add .1 BTC from the prize pool to the next person that find a block regardless of there hash rate!


Edit: Ill even pitch into the prize pool. Ill donate a 400$ coupon to whoever finds the next block if they want it. Stipulations, you have to use it, no reselling and it must be pointed to kano. If I see that you dont abide by these terms I will ask Kano to ban your miners from the pool. (ulitmately his choice if he does)