clgrissom3
Legendary
 Offline
Activity: 1722
Merit: 1032
Carl, aka Sonny :)
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February 13, 2019, 12:00:40 PM |
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Looks like I missed out on some firey math talks with angry questions and lack of reason on one side and logical answers on the better side.  Look here for that...  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5108666.0 |
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Pyrojason
Copper Member
Member
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Activity: 174
Merit: 10
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February 14, 2019, 04:52:11 AM |
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Ug! Bleh what a link.  |
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BSGMiner
Member
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Activity: 490
Merit: 16
1xA921 + 1xA741 + Backup-->1xA6 ;)
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February 14, 2019, 02:17:34 PM |
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Ug! Bleh what a link. I read it and lived to tell the tale! (Much popcorn required)  |
The BTCest mining pool (<1% fee): KanoPool***PPLNS rewards averaged over the 5Nd to reduce variance*** |
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MoparMiningLLC
aka Stryfe
Legendary
 Online
Activity: 2058
Merit: 2199
EIN: 82-3893490
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February 14, 2019, 05:43:41 PM |
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where are the blocks? Bring on the blocks!  |
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jabchest
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 11
Merit: 0
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February 16, 2019, 06:57:41 PM |
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yaaaaaah
Where are the blooocks, wth. Sorry Kano but this is painful.
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Artemis3
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2016
Merit: 1563
CLEAN non GPL infringing code made in Rust lang
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February 16, 2019, 08:41:09 PM |
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yaaaaaah
Where are the blooocks, wth. Sorry Kano but this is painful. What are you talking about? Blocks are discovered by pure luck, if you want a higher frequency, bring more hashrate to the pool. Bring an Exahash and everyone would earn more than on any PPS pool right now. So why are some fools still mining on PPS pools? Because they can't manage themselves. The largest miners are the ones who benefit more from PPLNS. Frequency of block discovery will not increase or decrease your profits, but will reduce the variance in a given period, to the point it will almost look like PPS but better paid (and risk free). So bring those whale miners here if you want higher block frequency. Whining at Kano is like yelling at the dice for not getting a double 6... |
█████████████████████████
██████████████████████████
██████████████████████████
███████████████████████████ | BRAIINS OS+| | AUTOTUNING
MINING FIRMWARE| | Increase hashrate on your Bitcoin ASICs,
improve efficiency as much as 25%, and
get 0% pool fees on Braiins Pool | |
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Biffa
Legendary
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Activity: 3220
Merit: 1220
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February 16, 2019, 09:07:06 PM |
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Whining at Kano is like yelling at the dice for not getting a double 6...
Which gamblers often do. |
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MoparMiningLLC
aka Stryfe
Legendary
Online
Activity: 2058
Merit: 2199
EIN: 82-3893490
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February 18, 2019, 08:39:37 PM |
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What are you talking about? Blocks are discovered by pure luck, if you want a higher frequency, bring more hashrate to the pool.
Bring an Exahash and everyone would earn more than on any PPS pool right now. So why are some fools still mining on PPS pools? Because they can't manage themselves. The largest miners are the ones who benefit more from PPLNS.
Frequency of block discovery will not increase or decrease your profits, but will reduce the variance in a given period, to the point it will almost look like PPS but better paid (and risk free).
So bring those whale miners here if you want higher block frequency. Whining at Kano is like yelling at the dice for not getting a double 6...
totally agree but for some that have to pay the electric and without a decent reserve, several weeks with no payouts can wreck them. Some of them need the steady payouts to just stay afloat - for them, large pps pools might be a better idea but I do agree that pplns is way better and if we could quadruple the pool hash rate, we would be killing any/all pps pools in payouts. but long run, like you said, the luck will work out and their net payments should be pretty much equal either way they go. It is all about that luck |
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Artemis3
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2016
Merit: 1563
CLEAN non GPL infringing code made in Rust lang
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February 19, 2019, 02:31:16 PM |
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What are you talking about? Blocks are discovered by pure luck, if you want a higher frequency, bring more hashrate to the pool.
Bring an Exahash and everyone would earn more than on any PPS pool right now. So why are some fools still mining on PPS pools? Because they can't manage themselves. The largest miners are the ones who benefit more from PPLNS.
Frequency of block discovery will not increase or decrease your profits, but will reduce the variance in a given period, to the point it will almost look like PPS but better paid (and risk free).
So bring those whale miners here if you want higher block frequency. Whining at Kano is like yelling at the dice for not getting a double 6...
totally agree but for some that have to pay the electric and without a decent reserve, several weeks with no payouts can wreck them. Some of them need the steady payouts to just stay afloat - for them, large pps pools might be a better idea but I do agree that pplns is way better and if we could quadruple the pool hash rate, we would be killing any/all pps pools in payouts. but long run, like you said, the luck will work out and their net payments should be pretty much equal either way they go. It is all about that luck The PPS pools act as a "reserve" for them, but that comes at a price of higher pool fees and the possible loss of the money "in transit", in case they get "hacked" or the pool it does not (really) have the proper reserve to withstand an extended bad luck period (or a combination of). I guess a day/week loss of payment for a single asic miner isn't much to worry, but the whale miner would lose a fortune. Ironic they rather take the risk than learn to manage themselves. If the PPS pool fails a payment, then they would fail with it. Essentially you are trusting the pool like you would trust a bank, hope they can keep that "reserve" safe... And how can you audit if your PPS pool has the appropriate reserve levels? |
█████████████████████████
██████████████████████████
██████████████████████████
███████████████████████████ | BRAIINS OS+| | AUTOTUNING
MINING FIRMWARE| | Increase hashrate on your Bitcoin ASICs,
improve efficiency as much as 25%, and
get 0% pool fees on Braiins Pool | |
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MoparMiningLLC
aka Stryfe
Legendary
Online
Activity: 2058
Merit: 2199
EIN: 82-3893490
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February 19, 2019, 05:23:40 PM |
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The PPS pools act as a "reserve" for them, but that comes at a price of higher pool fees and the possible loss of the money "in transit", in case they get "hacked" or the pool it does not (really) have the proper reserve to withstand an extended bad luck period (or a combination of).
I guess a day/week loss of payment for a single asic miner isn't much to worry, but the whale miner would lose a fortune. Ironic they rather take the risk than learn to manage themselves. If the PPS pool fails a payment, then they would fail with it. Essentially you are trusting the pool like you would trust a bank, hope they can keep that "reserve" safe... And how can you audit if your PPS pool has the appropriate reserve levels?
agreed. for me it makes no sense why miners with huge hash rates would do a pps vs pplns -- i do understand why small miners do though. |
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Herv12
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February 20, 2019, 06:41:32 PM |
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Hello,
PPS pools have higher official fees, but that's not all.
If you try to work for them, you will notice that they tax you in a hidden way too: Your mean hashrate displayed by the pool will be lower than on a non pps pool.
They rarely pay the benefits of the transations.
You usually have 5% of Fee on PPS versus 1% to 2.5% for non-PPS pools.
On the other hand, you are paid, whether the pool is lucky or not.
This large fee permits to pps pool to have reserves.
The risk for them is a block retention attack by an important thief miner. In addition to the cost of a failure fully supported by the pool, a PPS pool is particularly exposed to this risk
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kano (OP)
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 4466
Merit: 1798
Linux since 1997 RedHat 4
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2 minutes of nothing but invalid shares and you'll get disconnected. That's not the same as stale shares. No proper cgminer would ignore the difficulty sent to it and continue sending fucked up 10 diff shares, unless you're using some broken shit arse fork, of which there are lots of I guess.
Thanks! I disabled stale share submission and everything seems to be normal now, continue mining as usual, but less dramatic now, with no disconnects. Yeah I agree I must have some shitty fork. But it at least works for now I've quoted a post from another pool thread, coz I'm sure, like me, many of you will read the various pool threads to keep up to date on the status of the various pools and also read the software and hardware Bitcoin threads to know what's going on. (Though be careful, the paedophile who runs that thread, called me a stalker for doing that, so you too may be called a stalker by a forum mod for reading multiple threads ...) Anyway, the important point to note about the post I've quoted above, is that the answer is completely wrong.Never disable stale share submission in a miner ... ever.This can lose blocks.This is one of the very brain dead things that Bitmain did in their clones of cgminer before the S9 - that I fixed in the S1/S2/S3 versions I created. They throw away stale shares to make the stale share counts look better. But this also throws away stale blocks, which can become valid blocks if the pool handles them using the change I requested in Bitcoin that core implemented a couple of years ago. Now I will also say, that I didn't request the change from core for that reason, but it was discussed in the issue on the Bitcoin github when I brought it up. We do also attempt to convert stale blocks to a valid block. ... and another forum mod has merited that post. Why on earth would someone do that ... ... ...  |
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Biodom
Legendary
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Activity: 3738
Merit: 3836
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February 22, 2019, 06:20:36 AM |
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A small joke, don't get mad...
Knock-knock
Who is there?
A block
Block who?
...
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clgrissom3
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1722
Merit: 1032
Carl, aka Sonny :)
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February 22, 2019, 08:31:44 PM |
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Block by Rabinovitch with 140TH...nice! This is our 1st of BLOCK FRIDAY! |
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MoparMiningLLC
aka Stryfe
Legendary
Online
Activity: 2058
Merit: 2199
EIN: 82-3893490
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February 22, 2019, 08:32:44 PM |
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woohoo! a block! let's keep this rolling!
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Artemis3
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2016
Merit: 1563
CLEAN non GPL infringing code made in Rust lang
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February 22, 2019, 09:45:51 PM |
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Block by Rabinovitch with 140TH...nice! This is our 1st of BLOCK FRIDAY! Great news, let them keep coming!   This has been a bad luck month eh? But not for long |
█████████████████████████
██████████████████████████
██████████████████████████
███████████████████████████ | BRAIINS OS+| | AUTOTUNING
MINING FIRMWARE| | Increase hashrate on your Bitcoin ASICs,
improve efficiency as much as 25%, and
get 0% pool fees on Braiins Pool | |
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NomadGroup
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February 22, 2019, 10:15:07 PM |
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A small joke, don't get mad...
Knock-knock
Who is there?
A block
Block who?
...
Your Joke worked! Lol . Keep them coming! |
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NomadGroup
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February 22, 2019, 10:20:08 PM |
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Block by Rabinovitch with 140TH...nice! This is our 1st of BLOCK FRIDAY! Great news, let them keep coming! This has been a bad luck month eh? But not for long In the big pools the luck has been just as shitty lately. Just a bad luck season or something. |
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clgrissom3
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1722
Merit: 1032
Carl, aka Sonny :)
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February 22, 2019, 10:32:44 PM |
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Block by Rabinovitch with 140TH...nice! This is our 1st of BLOCK FRIDAY! Great news, let them keep coming! This has been a bad luck month eh? But not for long Actually, 4 blocks out of 5.4 expected so far is not that bad or unlucky. We have to remember that a 100% block for our pool size is a little over 6 days. Since we had 3 rather quick blocks right at the start of February this 339% block was not out of the realm of normal and we have a real shot of a good February. |
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MoparMiningLLC
aka Stryfe
Legendary
Online
Activity: 2058
Merit: 2199
EIN: 82-3893490
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February 23, 2019, 04:40:31 AM |
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Actually, 4 blocks out of 5.4 expected so far is not that bad or unlucky. We have to remember that a 100% block for our pool size is a little over 6 days. Since we had 3 rather quick blocks right at the start of February this 339% block was not out of the realm of normal and we have a real shot of a good February. no it is not - one more and we will be right where it is estimated to be - but if you go back as far as the table shows, I think we are about 8 blocks or so below expected. |
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