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Author Topic: Bitcoin-Central - why don't people use this exchange??  (Read 3218 times)
cryptoanarchist
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May 02, 2012, 08:50:20 PM
 #1

The only thing wrong about this site is that it doesn't have enough volume, so I'm curious - why not?

Not to sound like an ad for the site, but it DOESN'T HAVE TRADING FEES!! If this exchange had the volume, it'd be my main exchange just for that.

They are also one of the only exchanges that takes pecunix, which is cool. And their LR deposits AND withdraws are instant!

Why is this exchange a ghost town then?? Just curious to hear what people think.
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mtbomb
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May 02, 2012, 10:23:46 PM
 #2

The only thing wrong about this site is that it doesn't have enough volume, so I'm curious - why not?

Not to sound like an ad for the site, but it DOESN'T HAVE TRADING FEES!! If this exchange had the volume, it'd be my main exchange just for that.

They are also one of the only exchanges that takes pecunix, which is cool. And their LR deposits AND withdraws are instant!

Why is this exchange a ghost town then?? Just curious to hear what people think.

I think you answered your own question.
cryptoanarchist
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May 02, 2012, 10:28:32 PM
 #3

The only thing wrong about this site is that it doesn't have enough volume, so I'm curious - why not?

Not to sound like an ad for the site, but it DOESN'T HAVE TRADING FEES!! If this exchange had the volume, it'd be my main exchange just for that.

They are also one of the only exchanges that takes pecunix, which is cool. And their LR deposits AND withdraws are instant!

Why is this exchange a ghost town then?? Just curious to hear what people think.

I think you answered your own question.

Not entirely..even with the low volume, I still place some trades there. Apparently most people don't. I'm mostly curious if there are other reasons besides volume.
PatrickHarnett
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May 02, 2012, 10:30:47 PM
 #4

When I was doing arb trading, it was a good place, but volumes/liquidity were a bit hit and miss.  Didn't have any problems though.
mtbomb
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May 02, 2012, 10:33:52 PM
 #5

I don't trade a lot, but a big reason to favor Mt.Gox is that they have already been hacked once and successfully emerged from that with most users unharmed. Presumably, this means a future hack will be that more difficult. As some of these upstart exchanges get bigger, they will become more of a target and perhaps have weaker security.
davout
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May 02, 2012, 10:45:49 PM
 #6

We get small volume for EUR. But I hear you, there's *ahem* room for improvement Cheesy

There've been a lot of behind-the-scenes improvements since BC isn't a hobby anymore but a professionnal endeavour!

I'm working to integrate BitInstant as we speak, Ukash is next, after that the roadmap is as follows :
 - improve design and usability,
 - Merge LR with fiat (currently LREUR and EUR are separate markets, seemed like a good decision at the time but apparently users think it wasn't, and users are mostly right)
 - rewrite of the trading engine to make it execute trades against multiple other trading platforms (= virtually the combined liquidity of all other exchanges)
 - improvement of the merchant API to take advantage of the rewritten trading engine, with the bigger goal of providing the tightest spreads for merchant/buyer auto-exchange

I don't trade a lot, but a big reason to favor Mt.Gox is that they have already been hacked once and successfully emerged from that with most users unharmed. Presumably, this means a future hack will be that more difficult. As some of these upstart exchanges get bigger, they will become more of a target and perhaps have weaker security.
Our code's been open since December 31 2010, not a single hack. I'll let you reach your own conclusions regarding the quality of the code Wink

The only exchange that's older than BC is mtgox (when Jed still operated it). So you can trust the fact that we're animated by passion and here to stay Smiley

btctree
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May 02, 2012, 10:47:46 PM
 #7

I don't trade a lot, but a big reason to favor Mt.Gox is that they have already been hacked once and successfully emerged from that with most users unharmed. Presumably, this means a future hack will be that more difficult. As some of these upstart exchanges get bigger, they will become more of a target and perhaps have weaker security.

yes, you can think at that way. but other exchangers do also learn from that hack event. for example. we are using long random words as hash to mix user's original password before hash it again with double md5/sha265. so if very unfortunately we get hacked, our user's passwords are still safe (for each user has a long random hash pre-key, to brute force all passwords will become a mission almost impossible)

i agree with that you should also give other small exchangers a try. such like Bitcoin-Central or BtcTree.com. we have nice price of bitcoins and fast withdrawal service here, you might be interesting.

World Wide Bitcoin Exchange
Fast Payment, Low Fee !
USD/EUR/GBP/CASH USA/Coupons
https://www.BtcTree.com
davout
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May 02, 2012, 10:52:31 PM
 #8

we are using long random words as hash to mix user's original password before hash it again with double md5/sha265.
MD5 is weak, salts are probably stored in your DB, SHA2 is designed for speed which is precisely what *you do not want* in a password hash function, especially when half of this community is actively working on making SHA2 bruteforce more and more efficient Wink

Don't reinvent the wheel, use bcrypt, it was designed specifically for that use case, it is designed to be slow which is a good thing for a password hash function.

btctree
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May 02, 2012, 11:17:20 PM
 #9

we are using long random words as hash to mix user's original password before hash it again with double md5/sha265.
MD5 is weak, salts are probably stored in your DB, SHA2 is designed for speed which is precisely what *you do not want* in a password hash function, especially when half of this community is actively working on making SHA2 bruteforce more and more efficient Wink

Don't reinvent the wheel, use bcrypt, it was designed specifically for that use case, it is designed to be slow which is a good thing for a password hash function.
[/quote]

Code:
bcrypt is an adaptive cryptographic hash function for passwords designed by Niels Provos and David Mazières, based on the Blowfish cipher, and presented at USENIX in 1999.[1] Besides incorporating a salt to protect against rainbow table attacks, bcrypt is an adaptive hash: over time it can be made slower and slower so it remains resistant to specific brute-force search attacks against the hash and the salt.

what do you think about SHA512 with salt?

World Wide Bitcoin Exchange
Fast Payment, Low Fee !
USD/EUR/GBP/CASH USA/Coupons
https://www.BtcTree.com
DeathAndTaxes
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May 02, 2012, 11:54:09 PM
 #10

what do you think about SHA512 with salt?

Already asked and answered.  SHA2 (which SHA-256, SHA-384, SHA-512 are all part of) was optimized for speed.  It also can be easily accelerated in parallel (GPU cough cough).  While any strong hashing function is better than nothing (or trying to roll your own) you DON'T WANT AN ALGORITHM OPTIMIZED FOR SPEED.  You don't want an algorithm where it is possible for an attacker to brute force tens of billions of possible combinations per second.

bcrypt was designed to protect password files.  It is optimized to protect password files.
btctree
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May 03, 2012, 02:48:48 AM
 #11

Yes, but you should also know that bcrypt use more complicated algorithm to slow down the speed of calculation, this can be used as a vulnerable of DDOS attack.

World Wide Bitcoin Exchange
Fast Payment, Low Fee !
USD/EUR/GBP/CASH USA/Coupons
https://www.BtcTree.com
finway
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May 03, 2012, 02:51:51 AM
 #12

Why don't people use bitcoin ?

Raoul Duke
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May 03, 2012, 03:00:52 AM
 #13

0 fees on exchange but charging €15 for a FREE SEPA transfer... good luck lol

davout
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May 03, 2012, 08:14:48 AM
 #14

FREE SEPA transfer...
Get your facts straight : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_Euro_Payments_Area#Misconceptions

Our bank charges 15 € for outgoing payments. We add exactly 0 € on top of that.

Get your math straight : That makes us the cheapest option by far for for middle to large sized withdrawals compared to exchanges who'll charge you a percentage of the amount (even though it's not harder to make a larger transfer, go figure).

Raoul Duke
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May 03, 2012, 08:48:31 AM
 #15

FREE SEPA transfer...
Get your facts straight : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_Euro_Payments_Area#Misconceptions

Our bank charges 15 € for outgoing payments. We add exactly 0 € on top of that.

Get your math straight : That makes us the cheapest option by far for for middle to large sized withdrawals compared to exchanges who'll charge you a percentage of the amount (even though it's not harder to make a larger transfer, go figure).

Change banks... If your bank charges you for free stuff and you let them do it, that tells me more about you than about your bank.
I lived in several european countries for the last 6 years, and consequently have bank accounts in all of them, and the only time I get to pay fees is if I go the bank and send it trough the cashier. All transfers made using internet banking services(which all banks have) are free.

EhVedadoOAnonimato
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May 03, 2012, 09:15:28 AM
 #16

Yes, but you should also know that bcrypt use more complicated algorithm to slow down the speed of calculation, this can be used as a vulnerable of DDOS attack.

You could impose a delay after a failed attempt. And also impose a delay for re-login after a logout.
Blazr
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May 03, 2012, 09:23:52 AM
 #17

Change banks... If your bank charges you for free stuff and you let them do it, that tells me more about you than about your bank.
I lived in several european countries for the last 6 years, and consequently have bank accounts in all of them, and the only time I get to pay fees is if I go the bank and send it trough the cashier. All transfers made using internet banking services(which all banks have) are free.

Your bank doesn't charge you anything? My bank does, Mt Gox's bank in Poland does as well, also aurumxchange's bank...

Busy ATM.
davout
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May 03, 2012, 09:44:31 AM
 #18

Change banks... If your bank charges you for free stuff and you let them do it, that tells me more about you than about your bank.
There's no such thing as free stuff, a bitcoiner should know that.

What tells a lot about both of us are : our attitude, and our actions. One is contributing, working his ass off, investing his own money to actually get things moving. The other one knows so much better than the acting one and thinks he's so much smarter. 15€ > 0€, bravo Einstein!


I lived in several european countries for the last 6 years, and consequently have bank accounts in all of them, and the only time I get to pay fees is if I go the bank and send it trough the cashier. All transfers made using internet banking services(which all banks have) are free.
You might be surprised to learn that banks do not charge corporations and individuals the same way. You might be surprised to hear that not all banks want to service corporations that engage in the commerce of Bitcoins, because guess what, I'm open about it. I don't want to end up like mtgox in France, they used a bank account that was owned by a company making 45€ as a yearly net profit[1] to make tens of thousands euros transit. The result was obviously a frozen account, angry users etc.

Man up and use your hands instead of your mouth, you might realize it's actually harder to do stuff than it is to speak about it.

References :
  • [1] infogreffe.fr, search for "MACARAJA" in "Dénomination sociale, sigle ou nom" and look at the "Résultat" field

Raoul Duke
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May 03, 2012, 09:51:35 AM
 #19

All that ends up being your problem, you know... I don't have the need for exchanges as I'm using bitcoins the way there were intended to use, but I've already pointed several persons to your exchange and guess what... they didn't want to use it because of the €15 SEPA withdrawal fee and went to Intersango.
You are the one losing customers, not me :-)

EhVedadoOAnonimato
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May 03, 2012, 09:57:54 AM
 #20

You might be surprised to learn that banks do not charge corporations and individuals the same way. You might be surprised to hear that not all banks want to service corporations that engage in the commerce of Bitcoins, because guess what, I'm open about it. I don't want to end up like mtgox in France, they used a bank account that was owned by a company making 45€ as a yearly net profit[1] to make tens of thousands euros transit. The result was obviously a frozen account, angry users etc.

Are you operating from France? Paytunia is a French company, isn't it?
Since the banque de France decision that MtGox needed banking permits, wouldn't the same be valid to Bitcoin-central for it to operate legally?

Not that I care about respecting stupid laws per se, but I do care about having my money lost or worse in case your exchange is shut down by the Elysée's mafia...
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