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Author Topic: In which language top gambling sites are coded ?  (Read 12504 times)
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October 10, 2014, 08:25:30 PM
 #61

My experience is

Almost 20 years commercial net and 1M+ visitors a day to sites I've done over the years

Last couple of months I've been involved in a few different poker room projects

One is live and it caters to very high stakes games, usually you have a table of big money at a set time so they hardly need anything major, but they got a dedicated server and run a major poker room script.

A table with 9 players doesn't even move the load

Right now SWC is probably the major house, they have 300 to 500 players online all day

They use use cloud flare

We use the same script on one of the poker projects, a differnt one on another

3 More rooms are set to launch soon but they will cater to the low end of poker

Just look at the rooms on SWC you will see 98% of the action is micro bit tables, something the first two projects wanted nothing to do with

Now the othe projects wants the type of action SWC has

All the projects use dedicated high memory servers, a couple are win based the other are linux

Linux rooms cost a ton

Win rooms are cheap

Right now it seems most btc related gaming is dice related, not sure about that, haven't done dice, my projects involve poker rooms and sports betting and some nice canned video sucker games

video gaming the house has rigged just like slots in a casino, you set the script to peel off the juice you want 2% to 5% usually

poker is all about a rake

sports betting is the hardest thing to do right IMO

so no high volume connections to speak of with these rooms and I don't consider the action at SWC being 300-500 a lot of action

Now the dice games have huge load, lots of people and that is where you need to worry about connections

Poker rooms are memory intensive scripts and there's cheapies as well as expensive scripts

All are memory hogs

sports books, well there's a ton of ways to do them, it's more on the way you want to handle it, and how you feed live lines into it

the few major OLSB's seem to have their own custom lines and not just major vegas dumps

dice is where you have load issues

right now I have no real interest in doing any dice stuff, the reason is it is done

high stakes poker and high stakes books that's wide open for btc development IMO

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October 11, 2014, 12:17:17 AM
 #62

And don't forget, you can make poker provably fair. Or almost.

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October 11, 2014, 04:10:25 AM
 #63

And don't forget, you can make poker provably fair. Or almost.

Hmm? I remember reading a thread where a few members were trying to accomplish it. I don't think it's been implemented ever?
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October 11, 2014, 05:27:14 AM
 #64

And don't forget, you can make poker provably fair. Or almost.

Hmm? I remember reading a thread where a few members were trying to accomplish it. I don't think it's been implemented ever?

Would that be my thread?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=274068.0;all

I believe, it's been accomplished, I just never got players. If you want to try, get a buddy to play heads up against you, I'll deal. Basically, I wanted people to try it out for real, instead of all being theory. I've tested it (by myself) but you never know until you actually do it.

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October 11, 2014, 01:51:42 PM
 #65

A server seed + combined client seed of all players currently participating in a round could make Poker provably fair?
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October 11, 2014, 02:23:37 PM
 #66

A server seed + combined client seed of all players currently participating in a round could make Poker provably fair?

It depends on what you consider provably fair, since poker has other factors involved; but yes, in my version that makes the shuffle and deal fair since all players have input on how the deck is randomized. The dealer or site knows it ,all, the players could collude, and someone can DDoS you, but that's true for most poker sites.

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October 11, 2014, 02:54:24 PM
 #67

It depends on what you consider provably fair, since poker has other factors involved; but yes, in my version that makes the shuffle and deal fair since all players have input on how the deck is randomized. The dealer or site knows it ,all, the players could collude, and someone can DDoS you, but that's true for most poker sites.

I read your scheme, but I honestly don't understand the utility it provides? It only works if all N players trust all other players. If one of the players works for the house not only can they see all cards, he can dictate the outcome of the shuffle. If you already trust all the players in the game, it's probably extremely unlikely that you are worried about the house playing favorites..
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October 11, 2014, 03:14:51 PM
 #68

It depends on what you consider provably fair, since poker has other factors involved; but yes, in my version that makes the shuffle and deal fair since all players have input on how the deck is randomized. The dealer or site knows it ,all, the players could collude, and someone can DDoS you, but that's true for most poker sites.

I read your scheme, but I honestly don't understand the utility it provides? It only works if all N players trust all other players. If one of the players works for the house not only can they see all cards, he can dictate the outcome of the shuffle. If you already trust all the players in the game, it's probably extremely unlikely that you are worried about the house playing favorites..

You're talking about super-users or "God mode" players. That's a problem with all poker sites. My scheme does not address that specifically. The shuffle is still going to be very difficult to dictate as it would require several "tries" to get the preferred cards in the least amount of time, by the time the players send their committed client seeds. This can be minimized or negated by the dealer first accepting only the hash of the client seed, until all players have committed, then accepting all the client seeds, then shuffling quickly, then dealing.

Although, in practice, this can all be done in under a second.

The scheme is not about trusting the other players, it's about knowing for sure that the deal or shuffle, with a certain level of confidence, is fair or provably fair, and not just because the site said so. The usual problems that plague poker sites will be dealt with differently.

I mean, where would you rather play? In a provably fair game? Or in a probably fair game? (investors and house not included.)

If the house cheats, they will be discovered eventually (Absolute Poker and Ultimate Bet, for example.)

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October 11, 2014, 04:17:12 PM
 #69

I mean, where would you rather play? In a provably fair game? Or in a probably fair game? (investors and house not included.)

I'm not trying to be a dick here, but I'd rather use the status-quo. If you're going to add so much complexity, you're going to need to add some advantages, which I can't see what they are?

The shuffle is still going to be very difficult to dictate as it would require several "tries" to get the preferred cards

Who cares? Computers are fast. A million shuffles in a second doesn't seem impossible to me. But anyway, if you can have many tries, even picking the best of 2 or 3 gives you a mind-boggling advantage.


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This can be minimized or negated by the dealer first accepting only the hash of the client seed, until all players have committed, then accepting all the client seeds, then shuffling quickly, then dealing.

This just gets worse. What happens if the player disconnects between sending the hash of the seed, and the seed to the server?

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October 11, 2014, 04:36:49 PM
 #70

I'm not trying to be a dick here, but I'd rather use the status-quo. If you're going to add so much complexity, you're going to need to add some advantages, which I can't see what they are?

You, as the player, can see the deck (face down), you can see the cards (face down) being dealt to other players, you can see your own cards, and you can see what's on the table, and verify that all the cards (that you can see face up) are what they are supposed to be. That's the advantage. All other poker schemes I've seen, in current implementation, do not offer that at all.

For the player that does not bother to check, it doesn't matter. For those that do, or if their client is set up that way (maybe it's open source) then verification is quick.

This just gets worse. What happens if the player disconnects between sending the hash of the seed, and the seed to the server?

Most poker sites auto-fold that particular player.

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October 11, 2014, 04:45:36 PM
 #71

For the player that does not bother to check, it doesn't matter. For those that do, or if their client is set up that way (maybe it's open source) then verification is quick.

Put it this way, what type of cheating does your scheme make impossible that was previously possible? By my reasoning it is: "When all N players trust each other -- the house can no longer pick favorites"

Maybe that is something some people some people worry about, but I think most of the time you are playing with people you don't fully trust or know. And when you do play amongst trusted friends, I don't think many people worry the house unfairly advantageous one of them...

Most poker sites auto-fold that particular player.

Sure, but in your scheme -- how do you even shuffle the deck?
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October 12, 2014, 03:14:39 PM
 #72

Most poker sites auto-fold that particular player.

Sure, but in your scheme -- how do you even shuffle the deck?

Shuffle it without the player who folded? The other players have already contributed their client seeds. The one who disconnected isn't going to play anymore, so the game can continue without him. But to prevent intentional disconnects and to encourage people to invest in a stable internet connection, there must be a rule like this in place. Perhaps if the hand has not yet started, then the player who disconnected does not suffer a loss (like he never bet at all.) like he sat out that round.

As for your first question, uh, I'm not sure. I thought it was a good idea. I mean, it's certainly better than existing sites. The house shouldn't care what the players do, since the house takes a rake almost all the time. (except on no flop no drop)

*edit* Eric, we're getting off-topic. Sorry. Post in my poker thread (so it gets it's annual bump too.)

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October 18, 2014, 11:00:47 PM
 #73

Well, for example pocketdice.io sends a PHPSESSID cookie, so it's safe to say they use PHP ( https://pocketdice.io/index.php works too Wink). Besides that, you can easily see the socket.io socket.


A socket is an open connection between the client (browser) and server with bidirectional communication. If you make a bet, you send the info through the socket (and you get the result) and if others bet you get the bets from there. So it's all real-time, you only connect once. There are different libraries/servers for this, Socket.io is a popular one made in node.js. Perfect for a dice site.

An alternative is indeed getting new data with AJAX requests. With that, the browser would make a connection/request every x seconds to see if there are new bets. Obviously for a dice site this would be pretty terrible and give big lag and other problems. However AJAX is useful for other purposes.

Do you think Server-Sent Events of HTML5 can also be used as an alternative of websocket ? In this case, the server notifies the client for a new update. Reference: http://www.html5rocks.com/en/tutorials/eventsource/basics/#toc-introduction-differences.

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October 20, 2014, 10:52:34 PM
 #74

FastSlots (not a top site yet, but gaining traction) is build on mysql, node.js, socket.io, and backbone. We chose mysql because it supports transactions and node.js because it's low latency and it makes it easy to use websockets. Backbone mostly because it's more lightweight than angular, but I'm starting to think that might have been a mistake...

I'm wondering why so many sites are using an nginx server instead of vanilla node. Is that just for load balancing or are there other advantages of nginx?
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October 21, 2014, 01:08:52 PM
 #75

FastSlots (not a top site yet, but gaining traction) is build on mysql, node.js, socket.io, and backbone. We chose mysql because it supports transactions and node.js because it's low latency and it makes it easy to use websockets. Backbone mostly because it's more lightweight than angular, but I'm starting to think that might have been a mistake...

I'm wondering why so many sites are using an nginx server instead of vanilla node. Is that just for load balancing or are there other advantages of nginx?

Thanks for the info. OP updated with your data. Please check at your end if they are correct.
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October 21, 2014, 01:16:41 PM
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Thanks for adding us RocketSingh, great to be on that list.

Maybe it would be best to change our server to simply 'node.js', to not get people into thinking we're using vanilla.js as a server (which would not make sense, but still..)
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November 13, 2014, 08:47:25 PM
 #77

Thanks for adding us RocketSingh, great to be on that list.

Maybe it would be best to change our server to simply 'node.js', to not get people into thinking we're using vanilla.js as a server (which would not make sense, but still..)

I'm confused !!! Then what is the purpose of vanilla ? Sorry, I'm not aware of these technologies.
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November 16, 2014, 03:18:39 PM
 #78

And don't forget, you can make poker provably fair. Or almost.

Hmm? I remember reading a thread where a few members were trying to accomplish it. I don't think it's been implemented ever?

What is the specialty of Poker for which achieving provable fairness is difficult ?

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November 17, 2014, 01:55:55 AM
 #79

And don't forget, you can make poker provably fair. Or almost.

Hmm? I remember reading a thread where a few members were trying to accomplish it. I don't think it's been implemented ever?

What is the specialty of Poker for which achieving provable fairness is difficult ?

You have to shuffle the cards, deal them, and the players can't tell what the other cards are even after the game. The part where discarded cards and mucked and folded hands ... thats the difficult part.

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December 26, 2014, 06:53:28 PM
 #80

There multiple new gambling sites in the market now. Would like to know if they are interested to share their technology behind...
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