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Author Topic: North Dakota Considers Eliminating Property Tax  (Read 1020 times)
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June 12, 2012, 04:23:38 PM
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http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/12/us/north-dakota-voters-consider-ending-property-tax.html
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June 12, 2012, 07:38:18 PM
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From ronpaulforums:

Quote from: TruckinMike
Yes, BUT... there is a catch. They are compromising with a sales tax that everyone would pay - ok, sounds fair enough, however they are also including a "business' tax that only the self employed or corps would pay. I don't have the details. Their plan is not all roses. Some of it has a real stench to it. Swapping one tyranny for another is not progress in my book.

edit

one more thing, your  property is still on the table for municipalities Tax(with provisions) or seize if they see fit. The law would not protect your property from state/county/city confiscation. They still would have their hooks in you.

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June 13, 2012, 07:39:33 PM
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A tax on consumption (sales tax) is quite interesting in theory at least especially in our resource limited world... and there is a good argument that it is unjust to force people to move.

But perhaps property tax encourages optimal use of land.  For example, if you commute an hour+ to a city, think of all the neighborhoods you are passing and all the retired people, etc living in them (I can't say I really know the stats).  But if they moved away you'd be able to move closer in for less $.  Across the nation this would translate into a large efficiency improvement.  So some encouragement to take those savings and move to where the living is cheaper is not a bad thing...

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June 13, 2012, 09:17:44 PM
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A tax on consumption (sales tax) is quite interesting in theory at least especially in our resource limited world... and there is a good argument that it is unjust to force people to move.

But perhaps property tax encourages optimal use of land.  For example, if you commute an hour+ to a city, think of all the neighborhoods you are passing and all the retired people, etc living in them (I can't say I really know the stats).  But if they moved away you'd be able to move closer in for less $.  Across the nation this would translate into a large efficiency improvement.  So some encouragement to take those savings and move to where the living is cheaper is not a bad thing...

I believe that a sales tax, although difficult to enfore, reduces the trend of consumption and waste by pricing items higher. A property tax is not based on land, but rather the "property value", something difficult to define. I support this new tax system.

If a property tax encourages people to move, it should tax land area, not "property value".

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June 14, 2012, 04:32:14 AM
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No one should be made homeless who lives on land that has already been paid for... unless they voluntarity enter into lawful contract and breach that contract, or through infringement of another they cause harm or loss.

No one should be able to tell anyone else how to use their land or how not to use their land so long as there is no infringement ocurring (harm to shared resources, etc). Like for food production for survival. No one that owns land should ever go hungry by default of law (zoning ordinance or taxed out of their ability to survive and thrive).

A few generations ago land tax did not exist. Then, by the slip of the pen, property owners were instantly transformed into rent paying tenants. This practice of taxed title and lease is thousands of years old.

... but then our currency used to pay for land is not really lawful money that holds value anylonger. It is debt guaranteed by the "full faith and credit of the _insert_nation_here_", which is in reality our land and our labor promised to those who charge interest on said debt that is loaned into existance. Every piece of current money in existence today is created by this mechanism of debt loaned into existance.

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June 14, 2012, 07:45:44 PM
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Every piece of current money in existence today is created by this mechanism of debt loaned into existance.

Except bitcoin, or gold, or silver, or chickens, or ...
Maybe you mean fiat money, but the term money means anything that is accepted as payment in a given socio-economic context.

While no idea is perfect, some ideas are useful.
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June 15, 2012, 10:53:24 AM
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Every piece of current money in existence today is created by this mechanism of debt loaned into existance.

Except bitcoin, or gold, or silver, or chickens, or ...
Maybe you mean fiat money, but the term money means anything that is accepted as payment in a given socio-economic context.

I used the term "Current Money" for our current legal tender fiat.

Sorry for the confusion.
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June 15, 2012, 05:48:06 PM
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Every piece of current money in existence today is created by this mechanism of debt loaned into existance.

Except bitcoin, or gold, or silver, or chickens, or ...
Maybe you mean fiat money, but the term money means anything that is accepted as payment in a given socio-economic context.

I used the term "Current Money" for our current legal tender fiat.

Sorry for the confusion.

Still not accurate... everything I mentioned is still used today in certain areas of the world

While no idea is perfect, some ideas are useful.
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Vitalik Buterin
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June 20, 2012, 11:07:29 PM
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I believe that a sales tax, although difficult to enfore, reduces the trend of consumption and waste by pricing items higher. A property tax is not based on land, but rather the "property value", something difficult to define. I support this new tax system.

If a property tax encourages people to move, it should tax land area, not "property value".

Except the sales tax does not tax consumption and waste, it taxes value. So it creates no incentive whatsoever to switch to using your money to buy more non-wasteful goods and services, since you get taxed just the same no matter what. As for property taxes, I agree, they should be based on land, although an externality tax on buildings based on their volume or number of units to compensate for the increased road use such buildings create, noise pollution and increased effort needed by the police to defend the property due to the greater stealable wealth contained inside would make economic sense to add on top. It would also end the bureaucracy of requiring people to supplicate their local community to allow them to develop land on a case by case basis, since you can just pay the tax and you're done.

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