Bitcoin Forum
July 16, 2018, 07:54:13 AM *
News: Latest stable version of Bitcoin Core: 0.16.1  [Torrent]. (New!)
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 [All]
  Print  
Author Topic: Letter to the EFF  (Read 37237 times)
kiba
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 980
Merit: 1000


View Profile
August 13, 2010, 02:55:47 PM
 #1

Time to write a letter. Feel free to write your own paragraphs and the like, as well give feed back.


Dear EFF, the bitcoin community would like to donate X bitcoins, which are worth X USD because of the work EFF to protect new and emerging technologies, as well internet freedom. Bitcoin is a new emerging P2P cryptocurrency that have over 30 enterprises and a boatload of community members around the world. It have extremely low transaction cost, is hard to produce, and is hard to fake and as well many other property that make bitcoin a good money. As such it is probable that it will become a threat to centralized monetary system, whom are often backed by the state. Members of the bitcoin community as recognized this as a potential hazard impeding bitcoin adoption in addition to the threat of monetary freedom. We also recognized previously that you protect other kind of internet freedom, such as net neutrality. Thus, our motivation to donate to the EFF.

As, such, there are X unconditional donations, but there are X amount that have specific requirement for you to satisify. Conditions include the EFF setup a node and donation buttons for members of the bitcoin community to be able to donate. Others require you to mention bitcoin to help promote the cryptocurrency.

Of course, EFF can convert bitcoins to dollars at will, or buy goods and services with bitcoins, or simply do nothing with it at all. We, members of the bitcoin community hope that the EFF will put the donation to good use.

1531727653
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1531727653

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1531727653
Reply with quote  #2

1531727653
Report to moderator
The World's Betting Exchange

Bet with play money. Win real Bitcoin. 5BTC Prize Fund for World Cup 2018.

Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1531727653
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1531727653

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1531727653
Reply with quote  #2

1531727653
Report to moderator
1531727653
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1531727653

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1531727653
Reply with quote  #2

1531727653
Report to moderator
1531727653
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1531727653

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1531727653
Reply with quote  #2

1531727653
Report to moderator
vess
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 141
Merit: 100



View Profile WWW
August 13, 2010, 03:11:00 PM
 #2

My comment is that putting conditions in the EFF is rather silly:

If people want to donate, let them donate; they can send the money to a trusted party / wallet-on-a-VM, and we can send it over to the EFF if they want it. The EFF's goodwill and press is worth more than them running a node or two.

And, by the way, I think it's a good idea to turn the EFF on to Bitcoin. I would suggest that it might be a good job for someone with business development experience, a phone call and conversation might work wonders.

I'm the CEO of CoinLab (www.coinlab.com) and the Executive Director of the Bitcoin Foundation, I will identify if I'm speaking for myself or one of the organizations when I post from this account.
mizerydearia
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 574
Merit: 500



View Profile
August 13, 2010, 03:12:56 PM
 #3

How about using the wiki?  google wave?

http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=778.msg8596#msg8596
I actually talked about Bitcoin with the EFF chairman a few days ago, he said it sounds cool and forwarded the link to some other EFF people. Smiley
silverman
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 59
Merit: 0


View Profile
August 13, 2010, 04:12:14 PM
 #4


I would like to use simple, direct language that transmits one message -- our support for EFF's agenda. If we are at all effective as a medium of exchange, they will naturally discover the rest of our story. Three short paragraphs, maximum:

1. Greetings: We appreciate your service to the community.

2. Who we are: Peer-to-peer network based digital currency.

3. How we can help: By donating xxx Bitcoins.

Sure, it is important to collect and discuss here the many things we will want to say, but let's please keep the final message brief and to the point.

kiba
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 980
Merit: 1000


View Profile
August 13, 2010, 04:45:20 PM
 #5


I would like to use simple, direct language that transmits one message -- our support for EFF's agenda. If we are at all effective as a medium of exchange, they will naturally discover the rest of our story. Three short paragraphs, maximum:

1. Greetings: We appreciate your service to the community.

2. Who we are: Peer-to-peer network based digital currency.

3. How we can help: By donating xxx Bitcoins.

Sure, it is important to collect and discuss here the many things we will want to say, but let's please keep the final message brief and to the point.



Very well: I follow your format.

Dear EFF, the bitcoin community appreciate your ongoing effort to protect internet freedom such as internet netruality and patent busting projects. We also see you an important partner to ensure that the bitcoin community goes unmolested or at least won't go down without a fight.

The bitcoin community is a society of users with over 30 business enterprises based around a new open source P2P cryptocurrency and monetary system called bitcoins. The software for bitcoin is published under the MIT license. It have extremely low transaction cost, is hard to produce, and is hard to fake and as well many other property that make bitcoin a good money. As such it is probable that it will become a threat to centralized monetary system, whom are often backed by governments. Members of the bitcoin community recognized government's interest in keeping their monetary monopoly and their resultant actions as possible threat to the growing bitcoin economy.

As, such, members of the bitcoin community would like to donate our goods, the cryptocurrency bitcoins to you. Members of the community will donate X bitcoins unconditionally, worth about X USD. We will also donate more if you fulfill various wishes such as putting up a bitcoin donation button, setting up a node and more. All together combined are X bitcoins, which are worth in total, X USD.

The EFF is free to convert bitcoins to other currencies at will, or buy goods and services with bitcoins, or simply do nothing with it at all. We, members of the bitcoin community hope that the EFF will put the donation to good use.

hugolp
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 784
Merit: 1000



View Profile
August 13, 2010, 05:43:39 PM
 #6

Kiba, you forgot to mention that the bitcoin software is open source and GPL. Since we are writing to the EFF I think its important to specify it.
kiba
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 980
Merit: 1000


View Profile
August 13, 2010, 05:48:21 PM
 #7

Kiba, you forgot to mention that the bitcoin software is open source and GPL. Since we are writing to the EFF I think its important to specify it.
Edited the last letter to reflect this.

It's actually licensed under the MIT. So I made use of the spirit of your suggestion instead.

hugolp
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 784
Merit: 1000



View Profile
August 13, 2010, 06:03:02 PM
 #8

Edited the last letter to reflect this.

It's actually licensed under the MIT. So I made use of the spirit of your suggestion instead.

No GPL? Unforgivable!!! I am leaving this community at once...  Roll Eyes

MIT is considered an open source license by the EFF, right?
kiba
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 980
Merit: 1000


View Profile
August 13, 2010, 06:08:29 PM
 #9

Edited the last letter to reflect this.

It's actually licensed under the MIT. So I made use of the spirit of your suggestion instead.

No GPL? Unforgivable!!! I am leaving this community at once...  Roll Eyes

MIT is considered an open source license by the EFF, right?

Well, OSI and FSF would consider it open source.

BioMike
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1621
Merit: 1001


View Profile
August 13, 2010, 07:52:27 PM
 #10

As such it is probable that it will become a threat to centralized monetary system, whom are often backed by governments. Members of the bitcoin community recognized government's interest in keeping their monetary monopoly and their resultant actions as possible threat to the growing bitcoin economy.

Is that actually true? Or an argument at all?
ribuck
Donator
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 826
Merit: 1003


View Profile
August 13, 2010, 08:00:35 PM
 #11

No GPL? Unforgivable!

The FSF acknowledges that the MIT license is compatible with the GPL. You can fork an MIT project into a GPL project if you like, after which your GPL fork is copyleft.

So the use of the MIT license shouldn't be an issue here.
kiba
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 980
Merit: 1000


View Profile
August 13, 2010, 09:49:10 PM
 #12

So, does anybody have any constructive criticism for my letter? I found that I always write bad grammar and spell poorly.

mizerydearia
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 574
Merit: 500



View Profile
August 14, 2010, 12:02:34 AM
 #13

So, does anybody have any constructive criticism for my letter? I found that I always write bad grammar and spell poorly.

I think start simple and expand upon ideas before producing a message.


I would like to use simple, direct language that transmits one message -- our support for EFF's agenda. If we are at all effective as a medium of exchange, they will naturally discover the rest of our story. Three short paragraphs, maximum:

1. Greetings: We appreciate your service to the community.

2. Who we are: Peer-to-peer network based digital currency.

3. How we can help: By donating xxx Bitcoins.

Sure, it is important to collect and discuss here the many things we will want to say, but let's please keep the final message brief and to the point.



Perhaps if effort by more than one, a wiki may be helpful to produce and refine a letter until it looks complete and is a message that most/everyone agrees is acceptable to send.

http://www.bitcoin.org/wiki/doku.php?id=letter_to_eff
Feel free to collaboratively add to it any points that may be worthy of including in such a message.  Bonus points if you are skilled at writing such messages and can contribute enough content to cover most everything that is essential in such a letter.

Note: If you disagree with one of the bulleted points for a paragraph, use strikethrough to indicate that it is not good point/sentence to use instead of removing it.
theymos
Administrator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 3080
Merit: 3265


View Profile
August 14, 2010, 12:05:28 AM
 #14

So, does anybody have any constructive criticism for my letter? I found that I always write bad grammar and spell poorly.

"Bitcoin" should always be capitalized, as it is a proper noun.

Quote
the bitcoin community appreciate

I would say "appreciates", but this might be a difference between US/UK English.

Quote
your ongoing effort

I would say "efforts".

Quote
such as internet netruality

Spelling: neutrality.
Internet needs to be capitalized.
(Also, I for one am opposed to net neutrality legislation.)

Quote
monetary system called bitcoins

The system is called Bitcoin, not Bitcoins.

Quote
It have extremely low transaction cost, is hard to produce, and is hard to fake and as well many other property that make bitcoin a good money.

In addition to many other useful properties, Bitcoin has extremely low transaction fees and is hard to produce and fake.

Quote
centralized monetary system,
systems

Quote
whom are often backed by governments.
which are often...

Quote
Members of the bitcoin community recognized government's interest in keeping their monetary monopoly and their resultant actions as possible threat to the growing bitcoin economy.

Members of the Bitcoin community have recognized the interest worldwide governments have in keeping their monetary monopoly. Their resulting actions could be a possible threat to the growing Bitcoin economy.

Quote
As, such,
As such,

Quote
would like to donate our goods, the cryptocurrency bitcoins to you.
would like to donate some of our goods -- cryptocurrency bitcoins -- to you.

Quote
All together combined are X bitcoins, which are worth in total, X USD.
Combined, this is X Bitcoins, which are worth X USD in total.

Quote
The EFF is free to convert bitcoins to other currencies at will, or buy goods and services with bitcoins, or simply do nothing with it at all. We, members of the bitcoin community hope that the EFF will put the donation to good use.

The EFF is free to convert the Bitcoins to other currencies, buy goods and services with the Bitcoins, or simply do nothing with them at all. The members of the Bitcoin community hope that the EFF will put the donation to good use.

1NXYoJ5xU91Jp83XfVMHwwTUyZFK64BoAD
mizerydearia
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 574
Merit: 500



View Profile
August 14, 2010, 12:15:25 AM
 #15

Heh theymos.  I was contemplating correcting mistakes within kiba's suggestion message, however, I also wasn't sure whether the content of it was a kind of message that should be representative of from the Bitcoin community.  I suggest somehow collaboratively producing a message either with using a wiki, google wave or some other means.  Otherwise, if a single person who is skilled in writing is willing to produce a letter, it may be acceptable as well.
kiba
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 980
Merit: 1000


View Profile
August 14, 2010, 12:04:42 PM
 #16

Upgrade complete:




Dear EFF, the Bitcoin community appreciates your ongoing efforts to protect Internet freedom. We also see you as an important partner to ensure that the Bitcoin community goes unmolested or at least won't go down without a fight.

The Bitcoin community is a society of users with over 30 business enterprises based around a new open source P2P cryptocurrency and monetary system called Bitcoins. The software for bitcoin is published under the MIT license. In addition to many other useful properties, Bitcoin has extremely low transaction fees, high divisibility, and is hard to produce and fake. These features make Bitcoin useful as a medium of exchange. As such it is probable that it will become a threat to centralized monetary system, which are often backed by governments. Members of the Bitcoin community have recognized the interest worldwide governments have in keeping their monetary monopoly. Their resulting actions could be a possible threat to the growing Bitcoin economy.

As such, members of the Bitcoin community would like to donate osome of our goods -- cryptocurrency bitcoins -- to you.. Members of the community will donate X bitcoins unconditionally, worth about X USD. We will also donate more if you fulfill various wishes such as putting up a bitcoin donation button, setting up a node and more. Combined, this is X Bitcoins, which are worth X USD in total.

The EFF is free to convert the Bitcoins to other currencies, buy goods and services with the Bitcoins, or simply do nothing with them at all. The members of the Bitcoin community hope that the EFF will put the donation to good use.

mizerydearia
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 574
Merit: 500



View Profile
August 14, 2010, 01:05:51 PM
 #17

My revision:

Dear Electronic Frontier Foundation,

We, the Bitcoin community, appreciate your ongoing efforts to protect Internet freedom. You are an important organization that is designed to support our community.

...[/quote]

I'm too tired to revise anymore... Must sleeeeeeep!
sirius
Bitcoiner
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 429
Merit: 251



View Profile
August 14, 2010, 01:18:37 PM
 #18

We also see you as an important partner to ensure that the Bitcoin community goes unmolested or at least won't go down without a fight.

This should perhaps be reworded, it sounds like we're taking it for granted that they'll help us if needed.

Identifi - Decentralized address book with trust ratings
I'm not a forum admin - please contact theymos instead.
NewLibertyStandard
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 252
Merit: 252



View Profile WWW
August 14, 2010, 01:41:41 PM
 #19

"Bitcoin" should always be capitalized, as it is a proper noun.
The word bitcoin is not always a proper noun. It's a proper noun when it is the name of the application called Bitcoin. It's a common noun when it's referring to units of bitcoin currency. It can also be an adjective, but the adjective is based on the proper noun. I prefer to write it lower case when I use it as an adjective. I don't much care whether my adjective capitalization is correct or not.

Treazant: A Fullever Rewarding Bitcoin - Backup Your Wallet TODAY to Double Your Money! - Dual Currency Donation Address: 1Dnvwj3hAGSwFPMnkJZvi3KnaqksRPa74p
theymos
Administrator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 3080
Merit: 3265


View Profile
August 15, 2010, 12:38:50 AM
 #20

The word bitcoin is not always a proper noun. It's a proper noun when it is the name of the application called Bitcoin. It's a common noun when it's referring to units of bitcoin currency. It can also be an adjective, but the adjective is based on the proper noun. I prefer to write it lower case when I use it as an adjective. I don't much care whether my adjective capitalization is correct or not.

I am inclined to expand on the adjective usage and use "x Bitcoins." However, the FAQ uses, "1,300,000 bitcoins." If the FAQ is an official source of information, then I would always copy its usage. The FAQ also uses, "new Bitcoins," though, which seems a bit contradictory. Satoshi has used both ways on the forum.

There is precedence for your usage: the Costa Rican colón is based on someone's name, but is written in lowercase. Costa Rica is a Spanish-speaking country, though, so maybe this one example was only inherited from their non-English usage. Do you know of an actual grammar rule for this case? I looked through the Chicago Manual of Style, but I could not find any rules for a case like this.

Hopefully Satoshi or sirius-m will say which usage is correct. Until then, I think I'll use "[0-9]+ bitcoins" as the only lowercase usage of the word.

1NXYoJ5xU91Jp83XfVMHwwTUyZFK64BoAD
FreeMoney
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1246
Merit: 1001


Strength in numbers


View Profile WWW
August 15, 2010, 12:47:40 AM
 #21

Or it can be a verb, "If you like my work, bitcoin me."

Play Bitcoin Poker at sealswithclubs.eu. We're active and open to everyone.
theymos
Administrator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 3080
Merit: 3265


View Profile
August 15, 2010, 12:57:44 AM
 #22

Or it can be a verb, "If you like my work, bitcoin me."

That should be capitalized because you are referring to the Bitcoin network. Similarly, "Just Google it" is capitalized when referring specifically to the Google search engine.

These rules are all very trivial and unimportant, of course, but following all of English's ridiculous capitalization rules is a bit of a hobby of mine.  Smiley

1NXYoJ5xU91Jp83XfVMHwwTUyZFK64BoAD
kiba
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 980
Merit: 1000


View Profile
August 15, 2010, 01:30:02 AM
 #23

>We also see you as an important partner to ensure that the Bitcoin community goes unmolested or at least won't go down without a fight.

If you ever do expand to protecting alternative monetary system, the Bitcoin community have hopes that it will generally  be unmolested or at least won't go down without a fight.

Reword complete. Good or not? Should I just delete this altogether?

mizerydearia
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 574
Merit: 500



View Profile
August 15, 2010, 01:33:12 AM
 #24

I think "unmolested" or any variant of "molested" is not so useful for wording
kiba
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 980
Merit: 1000


View Profile
August 15, 2010, 01:36:56 AM
 #25

I think "unmolested" or any variant of "molested" is not so useful for wording

Well, its definition is:

not interfered with, disturbed, or harmed.

Anonymous
Guest

August 15, 2010, 02:54:11 AM
 #26

I think "unmolested" or any variant of "molested" is not so useful for wording

Well, its definition is:

not interfered with, disturbed, or harmed.


you could say - "the bitcoin community remains free of intervention."


I would leave out the "fight" part.
kiba
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 980
Merit: 1000


View Profile
August 15, 2010, 03:00:34 AM
 #27

If you ever do expand to protecting alternative monetary system, the Bitcoin community have hopes that it will generally remains free of intervention.


Reword complete. RFC.

FreeMoney
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1246
Merit: 1001


Strength in numbers


View Profile WWW
August 15, 2010, 06:26:23 AM
 #28

That is a truly awful sentence.

Play Bitcoin Poker at sealswithclubs.eu. We're active and open to everyone.
FreeMoney
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1246
Merit: 1001


Strength in numbers


View Profile WWW
August 15, 2010, 06:28:05 AM
 #29

Or it can be a verb, "If you like my work, bitcoin me."

That should be capitalized because you are referring to the Bitcoin network. Similarly, "Just Google it" is capitalized when referring specifically to the Google search engine.

These rules are all very trivial and unimportant, of course, but following all of English's ridiculous capitalization rules is a bit of a hobby of mine.  Smiley

I did not know that. After Googling "when I googled it" I realize I am not alone. Not that people on the internet have a clue, one person "google'd" something.

Play Bitcoin Poker at sealswithclubs.eu. We're active and open to everyone.
kiba
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 980
Merit: 1000


View Profile
August 15, 2010, 06:29:26 AM
 #30

That is a truly awful sentence.

Saying how awful it is doesn't exactly help me. The letter may not be that great, but it remains that I am the only one who is writing it.

FreeMoney
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1246
Merit: 1001


Strength in numbers


View Profile WWW
August 15, 2010, 06:42:20 AM
 #31

That is a truly awful sentence.

Saying how awful it is doesn't exactly help me. The letter may not be that great, but it remains that I am the only one who is writing it.

Sorry. I wasn't helping because I'm not interested in legal action. I'll do grammar action though. I was talking about this part mostly:

"..the Bitcoin community have hopes that it will generally remains free of intervention"

Play Bitcoin Poker at sealswithclubs.eu. We're active and open to everyone.
FreeMoney
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1246
Merit: 1001


Strength in numbers


View Profile WWW
August 15, 2010, 06:43:50 AM
 #32

The whole form of it is bad though because it's not a conditional thing. We hope to remain free weather their legal organization helps us or not.


Play Bitcoin Poker at sealswithclubs.eu. We're active and open to everyone.
kiba
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 980
Merit: 1000


View Profile
August 15, 2010, 06:47:50 AM
 #33

The Bitcoin community hopes that it will generally remains free of intervention, weather or not if you ever expand to protecting alternative monetary system.

Reword complete. Request for comment.

FreeMoney
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1246
Merit: 1001


Strength in numbers


View Profile WWW
August 15, 2010, 06:52:21 AM
 #34

 
The Bitcoin community hopes that it will generally remain free of intervention, perhaps with your support in the future.

Or even better:

The Bitcoin community hopes to generally remain free of intervention, perhaps with your support in the future.


 

 

Play Bitcoin Poker at sealswithclubs.eu. We're active and open to everyone.
mizerydearia
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 574
Merit: 500



View Profile
August 15, 2010, 07:24:38 AM
 #35

The Bitcoin community hopes that it will generally remain free of intervention, perhaps with your support in the future.

Or even better:

The Bitcoin community hopes to generally remain free of intervention, perhaps with your support in the future.

That's good to avoid the assumption or reliance on that they will support Bitcoin.
ichi
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 70
Merit: 10


View Profile
August 15, 2010, 09:52:53 AM
 #36

I'm sure that the EFF will welcome donations in bitcoin  Wink  Other than that, IMHO, it'd be enough to just emphasize how Bitcoin will further EFF's general goals.  Asking for support seems strange.  For Bitcoin to be useful, it must resist intervention inherently, through careful and well-tested design.  Freedom by permission is an illusion.  If that's all clear, I can't imagine why EFF wouldn't support Bitcoin.  Yes?
kiba
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 980
Merit: 1000


View Profile
August 15, 2010, 12:55:40 PM
 #37


The Bitcoin community hopes that it will generally remain free of intervention, perhaps with your support in the future.

Or even better:

The Bitcoin community hopes to generally remain free of intervention, perhaps with your support in the future.
 

Rewording accepted.

kiba
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 980
Merit: 1000


View Profile
August 15, 2010, 01:59:04 PM
 #38

Upgrade complete. Request for comment.



Dear EFF, the Bitcoin community appreciates your ongoing efforts to protect Internet freedom. The Bitcoin community hopes to generally remain free of intervention, perhaps with your support in the future.

The Bitcoin community is a society of users with over 30 business enterprises based around a new open source P2P cryptocurrency and monetary system called Bitcoins. The software for bitcoin is published under the MIT license. In addition to many other useful properties, Bitcoin has extremely low transaction fees, high divisibility, and is hard to produce and fake. These features make Bitcoin useful as a medium of exchange. As such it is probable that it will become a threat to centralized monetary system, which are often backed by governments. Members of the Bitcoin community have recognized the interest worldwide governments have in keeping their monetary monopoly. Their resulting actions could be a possible threat to the growing Bitcoin economy.

As such, members of the Bitcoin community would like to donate osome of our goods -- cryptocurrency bitcoins -- to you. Members of the community will donate X bitcoins unconditionally, worth about X USD. We will also donate more if you fulfill various wishes such as putting up a bitcoin donation button, setting up a node and more. Combined, this is X Bitcoins, which are worth X USD in total.

The EFF is free to convert the Bitcoins to other currencies, buy goods and services with the Bitcoins, or simply do nothing with them at all. The members of the Bitcoin community hope that the EFF will put the donation to good use.

mizerydearia
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 574
Merit: 500



View Profile
August 15, 2010, 11:26:00 PM
 #39

"Dear EFF"
"Dear Electronic Frontier Foundation" ?

It seems a bit strange to reference "The Bitcoin community" each in the first three sentences.  Any suggestions on wording to make it seem less repetitive?

"over 30 business"
"over thirty business"

"The software for bitcoin is "
"The software for Bitcoin is " ?

"and is hard to produce and fake"
I suggest rewording this somehow.  "produce" may be good choice for word but I'm not sure for "fake."

"These features make Bitcoin useful as a medium of exchange."
I'm not sure about this sentence considering that USD is easily producable and USD are still useful and practically dominating medium of exchange.

"As such it is probable that it will become a threat ..."
"As such, members of the Bitcoin ..."
Perhaps rewording one "As such" to something else?

"donate osome"
"donate some"

Suggestion for rewording:
"members of the Bitcoin community would like to donate osome of our goods -- cryptocurrency bitcoins -- to you"
"members of the Bitcoin community have (expressed|shown) an interest in donating [cryptocurrency] bitcoins to you"
"members of the Bitcoin community have (expressed|shown) an interest in donating [cryptocurrency] bitcoins to you as a (gesture|sign|token) of appreciation"

"We will also donate more ..."
Until this sentence you have not used "we" and instead referred to "the Bitcoin community."  Perhaps this is an error?

Also, instead of incentivising or encouraging based on this sentence:
"We will also donate more if you fulfill various wishes such as putting up a bitcoin donation button"
Perhaps simply stating something like:
"The Bitcoin community has expressed more of an interest and feels safer in donating if you were to directly establish your own bitcoin donation button or page."
Perhaps the above sentence can be rewritten a bit, but I suggest communicating the message similarly.

"The members of the Bitcoin community hope that the EFF will put the donation to good use."
I don't think "hope" is good word.  It's not liek EFF has a track record of putting some money to good use and some to not so good use.  Do they?  If they do, then the above sentence may make sense and thus we are gambling.  But if they do not, then I suggest using a word other than "hope."
ichi
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 70
Merit: 10


View Profile
August 15, 2010, 11:36:21 PM
 #40

Upgrade complete. Request for comment.

I've made edits in bold.  OK, many edits.  FWIW.

Dear EFF, the Bitcoin community appreciates your ongoing efforts to protect Internet freedom. We hope to generally remain free of intervention, and would welcome your support.

The Bitcoin community comprises approximately N users and over 30 business enterprises employing a new open-source P2P cryptocurrency and monetary system called Bitcoins. The software for bitcoin is published under the MIT license. In addition to many other useful properties, Bitcoin has extremely low transaction fees, high divisibility, and is hard to produce and fake. These features make Bitcoin useful as a medium of exchange. As such, Bitcoin may become a threat to centralized monetary systems, which are typically backed by governments. The Bitcoin community knows that governments will defend their monetary monopolies, perhaps by suppressing the Bitcoin economy.

As a demonstration of our value, members of the Bitcoin community would like to donate some of our goods -- cryptocurrency bitcoins -- to you. In order to facilitate that process, we request that you add a bitcoin donation button to the EFF website.  That would involve setting up a Bitcoin node, which is quite straightforward. We estimate that EFF would receive approximately X bitcoins per month, currently worth about Y USD. We note that, by accepting bitcoin donations, EFF might expand its support base (perhaps substantially).

kiba
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 980
Merit: 1000


View Profile
August 15, 2010, 11:57:47 PM
 #41

I think the donations are one-time only. Nobody has pledged to donate per monthly.

ichi
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 70
Merit: 10


View Profile
August 16, 2010, 12:03:39 AM
 #42

If EFF had a bitcoin button, I'd donate 50 per month  Smiley
NewLibertyStandard
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 252
Merit: 252



View Profile WWW
August 16, 2010, 12:53:51 AM
 #43

If EFF had a bitcoin button, I'd donate 50 per month  Smiley
Until the exchange rate hits what? Grin

Treazant: A Fullever Rewarding Bitcoin - Backup Your Wallet TODAY to Double Your Money! - Dual Currency Donation Address: 1Dnvwj3hAGSwFPMnkJZvi3KnaqksRPa74p
kiba
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 980
Merit: 1000


View Profile
August 16, 2010, 02:11:28 AM
 #44

I took Ichi's version and modified it a little bit.



Dear Electronic Fronter Foundation, the Bitcoin community appreciates your ongoing efforts to protect Internet freedom. We hope to generally remain free of intervention, and would welcome your support.

The Bitcoin community comprises approximately N users and over 30 business enterprises employing a new open-source P2P cryptocurrency and monetary system called Bitcoins. The software for bitcoin is published under the MIT license. In addition to many other useful properties, Bitcoin has extremely low transaction fees, high divisibility, and is hard to produce and fake. These features make Bitcoin useful as a medium of exchange. As such, Bitcoin may become a threat to centralized monetary systems, which are typically backed by governments. The Bitcoin community knows that governments will defend their monetary monopolies, perhaps by suppressing the Bitcoin economy.

As a demonstration of our value, members of the Bitcoin community would like to donate some of our goods -- cryptocurrency bitcoins -- to you. In order to facilitate that process, we request that you add a bitcoin donation button to the EFF website.  That would involve setting up a Bitcoin node, which is quite straightforward. We estimate that EFF would receive approximately X bitcoins currently worth about Y USD. We note that, by accepting bitcoin donations, EFF might expand its support base (perhaps substantially).

ichi
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 70
Merit: 10


View Profile
August 16, 2010, 03:52:41 AM
 #45

If EFF had a bitcoin button, I'd donate 50 per month  Smiley
Until the exchange rate hits what? Grin
Good point.  I'd say $0.50 or so per bitcoin.
ichi
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 70
Merit: 10


View Profile
August 16, 2010, 04:30:38 AM
 #46

I'm honored  Smiley  And I have some questions.

Who will be sending this to the EFF, and how?  What email address?  Anonymous?

Also, "Bitcoin community" appears too many times, and there are still issues re "Bitcoin" vs "bitcoin".  "Bitcoins" at the top of the second paragraph doesn't work.  I'm too tired and cranky for another rewrite, however  Sad

Putting on my pedant hat, I can't imagine that this will be a printed (or even PDFed) letter, given that it's coming from "the Bitcoin community".  If this will be simply an email, it should just start ...

Quote
The Bitcoin community appreciates ... [rest of body]

If it'll be a classic letter, the format should (of course) be ...

Quote
[Sender Address]

[Date]

Electronic Frontier Foundation
454 Shotwell Street
San Francisco CA 94110-1914 USA

To whom it may concern:

The Bitcoin community appreciates ... [rest of body]

Sincerely,
[Sender Name]
kiba
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 980
Merit: 1000


View Profile
August 16, 2010, 04:56:05 AM
 #47


Quote
The Bitcoin community appreciates ... [rest of body]



I think it just sound better to greet the Electronic Frontier Foundation. Beside, the starter sentence feel "out of the blue".

mizerydearia
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 574
Merit: 500



View Profile
August 16, 2010, 04:59:33 AM
 #48

If classic letter, perhaps it would be interesting if Satoshi were to personally prepare the letter himself and to fancy it with Bitcoin-related art/imagery/symbolism and perhaps even have a Bitcoin sticker to seal the envelope. ^_^  That would be AMAZING! ... and definitely garnish some incentive, motivation and interest for the EFF to consider Bitcoin as a healthy establishment.
mizerydearia
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 574
Merit: 500



View Profile
August 16, 2010, 05:05:58 AM
 #49

I took Ichi's version and modified it a little bit.



Dear Electronic Fronter Foundation, the Bitcoin community appreciates your ongoing efforts to protect Internet freedom. We hope to generally remain free of intervention, and would welcome your support.

The Bitcoin community comprises approximately N users and over 30 business enterprises employing a new open-source P2P cryptocurrency and monetary system called Bitcoins. The software for bitcoin is published under the MIT license. In addition to many other useful properties, Bitcoin has extremely low transaction fees, high divisibility, and is hard to produce and fake. These features make Bitcoin useful as a medium of exchange. As such, Bitcoin may become a threat to centralized monetary systems, which are typically backed by governments. The Bitcoin community knows that governments will defend their monetary monopolies, perhaps by suppressing the Bitcoin economy.

As a demonstration of our value, members of the Bitcoin community would like to donate some of our goods -- cryptocurrency bitcoins -- to you. In order to facilitate that process, we request that you add a bitcoin donation button to the EFF website.  That would involve setting up a Bitcoin node, which is quite straightforward. We estimate that EFF would receive approximately X bitcoins currently worth about Y USD. We note that, by accepting bitcoin donations, EFF might expand its support base (perhaps substantially).

"Dear Electronic Fronter Foundation, the Bitcoin community appreciates your ongoing efforts to protect Internet freedom."
"Dear Electronic Fronter Foundation,

The Bitcoin community appreciates your ongoing efforts to protect Internet freedom."

"We hope to generally remain free of intervention"
humm...  http://onelook.com/?w=generally&ls=a  I'm not sure about "generally" or more importantly the sentence/message directly after the first sentence.  Perhaps simply:
"We hope to remain free of intervention and would welcome your support" <-- Note: no comma

"and is hard to produce and fake"
"and is difficult to produce and counterfeit"
Anonymous
Guest

August 16, 2010, 06:52:40 AM
 #50

I think the donations are one-time only. Nobody has pledged to donate per monthly.

First you need to create a client that does subscription payments . Cheesy
The Madhatter
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 490
Merit: 500


My avatar pic says it all


View Profile
August 16, 2010, 07:24:29 AM
 #51

A super geeky way to do subscription payments is with the console client and cron. Tongue

If the EFF had a Bitcoin address I'd donate often.
kiba
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 980
Merit: 1000


View Profile
August 17, 2010, 12:16:57 AM
 #52

A super geeky way to do subscription payments is with the console client and cron. Tongue

If the EFF had a Bitcoin address I'd donate often.


Only to forget! Your client need a regular donation mechanism.

mizerydearia
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 574
Merit: 500



View Profile
August 17, 2010, 12:20:20 AM
 #53

A super geeky way to do subscription payments is with the console client and cron. Tongue

If the EFF had a Bitcoin address I'd donate often.


Only to forget! Your client need a regular donation mechanism.

It is fairly simple to produce a client that uses the api/json
fresno
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 94
Merit: 10


View Profile
August 17, 2010, 04:10:39 AM
 #54

No conditional donations! No json! We're saying hello and giving our support to their program, not negotiating a contract.

I think our hardest task will be to define what Bitcoin is http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=815.msg9854#msg9854 I used to think that calling it a digital currency was a good idea, now I don't.

kiba
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 980
Merit: 1000


View Profile
August 17, 2010, 03:52:48 PM
 #55

Letter upgrade, complete.

Dear Electronic Fronter Foundation,

The Bitcoin community appreciates your ongoing efforts to protect Internet freedom. We hope to remain free of intervention and would welcome your support

The Bitcoin community comprises approximately N users and over 30 business enterprises employing a new open-source P2P cryptocurrency and monetary system called Bitcoins. The software for bitcoin is published under the MIT license. In addition to many other useful properties, Bitcoin has extremely low transaction fees, high divisibility, and is difficult to produce and counterfeit. These features make Bitcoin useful as a medium of exchange. As such, Bitcoin may become a threat to centralized monetary systems, which are typically backed by governments. The Bitcoin community knows that governments will defend their monetary monopolies, perhaps by suppressing the Bitcoin economy.

Members of the Bitcoin community have expressed an interest in donating [cryptocurrency] bitcoins to you as a gesture of appreciation. In order to facilitate that process, we request that you add a bitcoin donation button to the EFF website.  That would involve setting up a Bitcoin node, which is quite straightforward. We estimate that EFF would receive approximately X bitcoins currently worth about Y USD. We note that, by accepting bitcoin donations, EFF might expand its support base (perhaps substantially).

NewLibertyStandard
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 252
Merit: 252



View Profile WWW
August 17, 2010, 05:10:30 PM
 #56

I bet they'll smile when they come to check out the project and find this thread. Cheesy

Treazant: A Fullever Rewarding Bitcoin - Backup Your Wallet TODAY to Double Your Money! - Dual Currency Donation Address: 1Dnvwj3hAGSwFPMnkJZvi3KnaqksRPa74p
ichi
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 70
Merit: 10


View Profile
August 17, 2010, 07:45:49 PM
 #57

Thanks, kiba  Smiley

FWIW, I support dropping "cryptocurrency".  Bitcoin is what it is, and that's well-described elsewhere.

So, what are the current best estimates for N, X and Y?
kiba
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 980
Merit: 1000


View Profile
August 17, 2010, 07:55:29 PM
 #58

Thanks, kiba  Smiley

FWIW, I support dropping "cryptocurrency".  Bitcoin is what it is, and that's well-described elsewhere.

So, what are the current best estimates for N, X and Y?

We have about 575 bitcoins, which translate to 37.72 dollars at the current exchange rate of 0.056.

Not everybody pledged a donation. Some of which probably won't be donated at all.

ichi
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 70
Merit: 10


View Profile
August 17, 2010, 07:59:17 PM
 #59

Are those pledges, or in an account?  I vaguely remember another thread.  Help?

How may Bitcoin clients are there currently?
kiba
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 980
Merit: 1000


View Profile
August 17, 2010, 08:01:03 PM
 #60

Are those pledges, or in an account?  I vaguely remember another thread.  Help?

How may Bitcoin clients are there currently?

http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=778.0

ichi
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 70
Merit: 10


View Profile
August 17, 2010, 08:07:01 PM
 #61

Thanks.  I pledged.

In this thread, lfm writes that "I see about 850 connections to the IRC channel."  Is that our best estimate?
kiba
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 980
Merit: 1000


View Profile
August 17, 2010, 08:08:34 PM
 #62

Thanks.  I pledged.

In this thread, lfm writes that "I see about 850 connections to the IRC channel."  Is that our best estimate?

That's quite an assumption. It would mean there are 1 user for each nodes. It is more probable than some users run more nodes than other.

ichi
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 70
Merit: 10


View Profile
August 17, 2010, 08:14:04 PM
 #63

OK, just say 850 nodes, then.  Could we assume that all members of this forum are users?  What's that number?  And would exchanges report numbers of distinct clients?
kiba
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 980
Merit: 1000


View Profile
August 17, 2010, 08:17:50 PM
 #64

OK, just say 850 nodes, then.  Could we assume that all members of this forum are users?  What's that number?  And would exchanges report numbers of distinct clients?

We have 691 users, with 9818 posts. This is about 36 posts a day, 3 members a day, and 15 users online each day.

MoonShadow
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1708
Merit: 1000



View Profile
August 17, 2010, 11:39:43 PM
 #65

Thanks.  I pledged.

In this thread, lfm writes that "I see about 850 connections to the IRC channel."  Is that our best estimate?

That's quite an assumption. It would mean there are 1 user for each nodes. It is more probable than some users run more nodes than other.

Nor would all nodes show up on the IRC channel.  I, for one, would not.  IRC is blocked for me, so my client on my thumbdrive wouldn't show up, and I imagine that mybitcoin.com would only count for one.  Any user's client who was offline and not interested in generating coins wouldn't likely show up either, since is a good chance that he turns off his desktop at night.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
fresno
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 94
Merit: 10


View Profile
August 18, 2010, 03:15:26 AM
 #66

Thanks, kiba  Smiley

FWIW, I support dropping "cryptocurrency".  Bitcoin is what it is,..


YES! Why bring in banking terms? This project is as different from banking as blogs are from newspapers.

And very good work, kiba, but who is going to guarantee that Bitcoins are worth xxx USD? Not me! (What is a USD worth, anyway?)



fresno
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 94
Merit: 10


View Profile
August 18, 2010, 03:20:48 AM
 #67

[Duplicate, sorry!]

ichi
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 70
Merit: 10


View Profile
August 18, 2010, 03:28:42 AM
 #68

A USD is worth somewhat less than 1 mg gold, according to the current spot price.  Without active manipulation, the current equilibrium value is probably closer to 0.1 mg gold.
NewLibertyStandard
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 252
Merit: 252



View Profile WWW
August 18, 2010, 03:47:00 AM
 #69

A USD is worth somewhat less than 1 mg gold, according to the current spot price.  Without active manipulation, the current equilibrium value is probably closer to 0.1 mg gold.
You're thinking of troy ounces. One ounce of gold is worth about $1226.00. There are 31.1034768 grams in a troy ounce, so a gram is worth about $39.42. A dollar is worth about 0.000815661 troy ounces or 0.025369883 grams of gold.

Treazant: A Fullever Rewarding Bitcoin - Backup Your Wallet TODAY to Double Your Money! - Dual Currency Donation Address: 1Dnvwj3hAGSwFPMnkJZvi3KnaqksRPa74p
ichi
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 70
Merit: 10


View Profile
August 18, 2010, 04:49:35 AM
 #70

DOH!

Right, 25 mg ostensibly, and 2.5 mg really.

How embarrassing  Embarrassed
fresno
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 94
Merit: 10


View Profile
August 18, 2010, 05:13:49 AM
 #71

No, dammit! Somebody might trade x amount of gold for a FRN, but there is no guaranteed conversion. A FRN isn't worth squat, and they'll tell you that! Too bad Bitcoin isn't that smart.

ichi
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 70
Merit: 10


View Profile
August 18, 2010, 06:45:43 AM
 #72

@fresno

You asked: "What is a USD worth, anyway?"

Perhaps we should have agreed on the meaning of "worth" before I answered.  In a fundamental sense, we agree that they're worthless.  There's no guaranteed worth, anyway.

OTOH, next weekend, I can take 9,999 USD in cash to a coin show, and (with luck) drive home with seven one-ounce Canadian Maple Leaf bullion coins, and change.  Would the seller be a fool?  Or would I?  Only time will tell.

So, how much gold is a Bitcoin worth?  Or rather, how many Bitcoin could I get for a 0.1 ounce Maple Leaf bullion coin?  I might sell a few if the price were right, just as a lark.  Just one per customer, though, and I'd need a mailing address.  And you'd need to pay me before I mailed the coin.

Edit:  How about y'all send Bitcoin contributions for the EFF to me, and I'll mail Maple Leaf bullion coins to them  Wink  Or would that be confusing the message?
mizerydearia
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 574
Merit: 500



View Profile
August 18, 2010, 06:58:51 AM
 #73

I'm confused.  How about you send the maple leaf bullions to me and I'll let you pay to me in bitcoins to cover their costs.  So as to show a bit of generosity, I'll even let you pay a bit extra, maybe 1.5x to provide more incentive for you.
ichi
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 70
Merit: 10


View Profile
August 18, 2010, 08:32:49 AM
 #74

 Roll Eyes

OK, just drop any reference in the letter to any of those worthless fiat currencies.  Yes?

I'll still sell a few 0.1 oz gold bullion coins for Bitcoin.  Bidding for the first starts at 2,500 Bitcoin, and will close at midnight Sunday (GMT).  The buyer will cover postage, and accept all risks.
fresno
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 94
Merit: 10


View Profile
August 18, 2010, 01:57:14 PM
 #75

@fresno

Edit:  How about y'all send Bitcoin contributions for the EFF to me, and I'll mail Maple Leaf bullion coins to them  Wink  Or would that be confusing the message?

Whose side are you on?!!

We donate Bitcoins to EFF. They do whatever they want with them. Maybe they'll discover something we haven't thought of.

Stop converting Bitcoins into everything under the sun! That's not our business. We regulate Bitcoins and keep the system working. That is all.

Let somebody else convert Bitcoins into drachmas and poker chips. Or maybe do it yourself, on your own site. Keep Bitcoin out of it.


RHorning
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 224
Merit: 100


View Profile
August 18, 2010, 04:16:26 PM
 #76

Roll Eyes

OK, just drop any reference in the letter to any of those worthless fiat currencies.  Yes?

I'll still sell a few 0.1 oz gold bullion coins for Bitcoin.  Bidding for the first starts at 2,500 Bitcoin, and will close at midnight Sunday (GMT).  The buyer will cover postage, and accept all risks.

Just send me the equivalent in e-gold and I'll be fine.  For that matter, I've sort of wondered why e-gold doesn't have an exchange market yet?  The largest problem with gold is that the stuff is heavy as gold is nearly one of the most dense metals you can find... and one of the earlier methods to detect counterfeiting or dilution of gold bullion with "cheaper" metals and most heavier metals are generally worth more than gold.  In fact, when "panning" for gold you depend on the density of the metal in order to extract it out of the other materials.  If you have an actual use for gold for artistic or industrial uses, it may make sense to ship it but it is a lousy currency precisely due to its weight.

In terms of sending a letter to the EFF, the K.I.S.S. principle should apply here.  Don't get side tracked into anything other than presenting this project in a clean and simple manner.  To note that there are several exchanges that will convert Bitcoins to other forms of money is useful perhaps as a side note, but that should also be a demonstration of its value as a currency.

I would encourage the EFF to set up a node to receive donations, and in fact I would be willing to at least donate a small portion of the coins I've already generated to the EFF.  What they choose to do with them afterward is their business, but it would seem like something they should at least be aware of, and perhaps even to note that there may be some legal challenges ahead with Bitcoins that perhaps could use some of their expertise in terms of protecting both the digital frontier and to note another form of innovation that is introduced by a free and open internet. If it wasn't for efforts of organizations like the EFF, Bitcoins simply wouldn't exist as software at all.   To me, this is also an excellent example of positive good that can come from peer to peer networks.
ichi
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 70
Merit: 10


View Profile
August 18, 2010, 07:24:16 PM
 #77

Whose side are you on?!!
Bitcoin, gold/silver and gold/silver-based crypto exchange systems, yes.  Fiat stuff, no.
ichi
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 70
Merit: 10


View Profile
August 18, 2010, 07:29:11 PM
 #78

Just send me the equivalent in e-gold and I'll be fine.  For that matter, I've sort of wondered why e-gold doesn't have an exchange market yet? ...
Not e-gold!!!  They were hosed, and I'd never trust them.

If you want to buy stuff locally, and the net is down, you'd better have some gold and/or silver.
MoonShadow
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1708
Merit: 1000



View Profile
August 18, 2010, 07:37:03 PM
 #79

If you want to buy stuff locally, and the net is down, you'd better have some gold and/or silver.

Personally, I prefer silver rounds.  I keep them in my desk.  I would recommend worrying about getting out of debt and building up your pantry closet first, however.  If it ever gets to the point that I'm trading silver as the common currency, it's *already* bad enough that most people won't be willing to trade anything at all.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
ichi
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 70
Merit: 10


View Profile
August 18, 2010, 07:52:53 PM
 #80

Yes, silver "dollars" for small purchases, and gold for long-term savings.  All physical, in our own well-hidden safe.  We also have freeze-dried food, total-nutrition tablets, guns and ammunition, and we live in a close-knit community far from large cities.
kiba
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 980
Merit: 1000


View Profile
August 20, 2010, 12:55:53 PM
 #81

So, is the letter all right or I am missing some criticism?

mizerydearia
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 574
Merit: 500



View Profile
August 20, 2010, 01:02:09 PM
 #82

Still missing some.   I will review it again later.
fresno
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 94
Merit: 10


View Profile
August 20, 2010, 02:20:36 PM
 #83


Oh yeah, the letter...

Quote

Dear Electronic Frontier Foundation,

The Bitcoin community appreciates your efforts protecting Internet freedom and to keep the Internet free of unneeded regulatory intervention.

Today's Bitcoin community is approximately N enterprises and indiviuals, using a new open-source P2P cryptocurrency system called Bitcoins, https://bitcoin.com published under the MIT license.

Several members of our community have asked to donate Bitcoins to your Foundation, with xxx Bitcoins being pledged so far. We are certain that you will receive many more in individual donations if you will set up an EFF Bitcoin node.

Warmest regards,

The Bitcoin Community.



I think the term "cryptocurrency" will come back to bite us someday, but Satoshi has already used it publicly, it is a coined word with no prior usage, and it works.




kiba
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 980
Merit: 1000


View Profile
August 20, 2010, 02:46:44 PM
 #84

I think the term "cryptocurrency" will come back to bite us someday, but Satoshi has already used it publicly, it is a coined word with no prior usage, and it works.

Trying to get the community to use words other than what accurately describe bitcoin is a losing proposition.

ichi
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 70
Merit: 10


View Profile
August 20, 2010, 07:25:53 PM
 #85

I like the version of the letter that you posted, fresno.  It says all that's necessary.  I have a few minor edits.


Oh yeah, the letter...

Quote

Dear Electronic Frontier Foundation,

The Bitcoin community appreciates your efforts protecting Internet freedom, and keeping the Internet free of unneeded regulatory intervention.

Today's Bitcoin community comprises approximately N enterprises and indiviuals, using a new open-source P2P cryptocurrency system called Bitcoins <https://bitcoin.org> that is published under the MIT license.

Several members of our community have asked to donate Bitcoins to your Foundation, with xxx Bitcoins being pledged so far. We are certain that you will receive many more in individual donations if you will set up an EFF Bitcoin node.

Warmest regards,

The Bitcoin Community.


I think the term "cryptocurrency" will come back to bite us someday, but Satoshi has already used it publicly, it is a coined word with no prior usage, and it works.

Satoshi may have coined "cryptocurrency", and "crypto currency" has been in use for decades.
kiba
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 980
Merit: 1000


View Profile
August 20, 2010, 07:39:11 PM
 #86

I like the version of the letter that you posted, fresno.  It says all that's necessary.  I have a few minor edits.


Oh yeah, the letter...

Quote

Dear Electronic Frontier Foundation,

The Bitcoin community appreciates your efforts protecting Internet freedom, and keeping the Internet free of unneeded regulatory intervention.

Today's Bitcoin community comprises approximately N enterprises and indiviuals, using a new open-source P2P cryptocurrency system called Bitcoins <https://bitcoin.org> that is published under the MIT license.

Several members of our community have asked to donate Bitcoins to your Foundation, with xxx Bitcoins being pledged so far. We are certain that you will receive many more in individual donations if you will set up an EFF Bitcoin node.

Warmest regards,

The Bitcoin Community.


I think the term "cryptocurrency" will come back to bite us someday, but Satoshi has already used it publicly, it is a coined word with no prior usage, and it works.

Satoshi may have coined "cryptocurrency", and "crypto currency" has been in use for decades.


I am happy to accept Fresco's version since others like it.

semyazza
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 339
Merit: 250


View Profile
August 20, 2010, 09:08:56 PM
 #87

I like the version of the letter that you posted, fresno.  It says all that's necessary.  I have a few minor edits.


Oh yeah, the letter...

Quote

Dear Electronic Frontier Foundation,

The Bitcoin community appreciates your efforts protecting Internet freedom, and keeping the Internet free of unneeded regulatory intervention.

Today's Bitcoin community comprises approximately N enterprises and indiviuals, using a new open-source P2P cryptocurrency system called Bitcoins <https://bitcoin.org> that is published under the MIT license.

Several members of our community have asked to donate Bitcoins to your Foundation, with xxx Bitcoins being pledged so far. We are certain that you will receive many more in individual donations if you will set up an EFF Bitcoin node.

Warmest regards,

The Bitcoin Community.


I think the term "cryptocurrency" will come back to bite us someday, but Satoshi has already used it publicly, it is a coined word with no prior usage, and it works.

Satoshi may have coined "cryptocurrency", and "crypto currency" has been in use for decades.


I am happy to accept Fresco's version since others like it.
+1 Fresco's version.
mizerydearia
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 574
Merit: 500



View Profile
August 21, 2010, 02:51:41 AM
 #88

Quote
Dear Electronic Frontier Foundation,

The Bitcoin community appreciates your efforts protecting Internet freedom, and keeping the Internet free of unneeded regulatory intervention.

Today's Bitcoin community comprises approximately N enterprises and indiviuals, using a new open-source P2P cryptocurrency system called Bitcoins <https://bitcoin.org> that is published under the MIT license.

Several members of our community have asked to donate Bitcoins to your Foundation, with xxx Bitcoins being pledged so far. We are certain that you will receive many more in individual donations if you will set up an EFF Bitcoin node.

Warmest regards,

The Bitcoin Community.

1 google result: "unneeded regulatory intervention"
18,400 google results: "unnecessary regulatory intervention"
~23,000 google results: "* regulatory intervention" -"of regulatory intervention"
thus, "unnecessary regulatory intervention" seems most relevant/useful ("of regulatory intervention" being most common of all "* regulatory intervention" results)

bef: unneeded regulatory intervention
aft: unnecessary regulatory intervention

Today's Bitcoin community comprises approximately N enterprises and indiviuals, using a new open-source P2P cryptocurrency system called Bitcoins <https://bitcoin.org> that is published under the MIT license.
Does this mean that the community is comprised by using a new open source P2P cryptocurrency system?  This sentence seems strange.

bef: have asked to donate
aft: have offered to donate

Did we really ask?  Who was asked?

246,000 google results: "We are certain that you will"
1,660,000 google results: "We are confident that you will"

bef: We are certain that you will
aft: We are confident that you will

0 google results: "receive many more in individual donations"
0 google results: "receive many more individual donations"
7 google results: "receive many individual donations"
See search results for "receive many * donations" for some ideas on how to reword this.
Perhaps even "receive many * donations" is not useful either.  Any ideas?
ichi
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 70
Merit: 10


View Profile
August 21, 2010, 04:12:50 AM
 #89

@mizerydearia

Thank you.  That's a very interesting approach for common usage.  The next time I'm lost for words, I'll just google  Smiley

I like your suggestions, FWIW -- up to "We are confident ..." anyway.

Upon reflection, I get that EFF can't receive any Bitcoin donations without creating a node.  Right?  Using Mt. Gox's payment button, for example, could get them Pecunix or whatever, but not Bitcoin.

How about ...

"In order to accept pledged and future donations, EFF would need to create and publish a Bitcoin address."
Anonymous
Guest

August 21, 2010, 06:08:55 AM
 #90

@mizerydearia

How about ...

"In order to accept pledged and future donations, EFF would need to create and publish a Bitcoin address using a local client or an online service such as mybitcoin"


added the bit in italics should we describe how it can be done?
ichi
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 70
Merit: 10


View Profile
August 21, 2010, 06:22:16 AM
 #91

Yes, thanks.  Honestly, I've never checked out mybitcoin.  I will  Smiley
silverman
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 59
Merit: 0


View Profile
August 22, 2010, 02:16:16 AM
 #92

The details don't need to be in the letter. Keep it simple.

ichi
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 70
Merit: 10


View Profile
August 22, 2010, 05:43:08 AM
 #93

Yes, simple is good.
ichi
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 70
Merit: 10


View Profile
August 23, 2010, 03:40:16 PM
 #94

Roll Eyes

OK, just drop any reference in the letter to any of those worthless fiat currencies.  Yes?

I'll still sell a few 0.1 oz gold bullion coins for Bitcoin.  Bidding for the first starts at 2,500 Bitcoin, and will close at midnight Sunday (GMT).  The buyer will cover postage, and accept all risks.
Nobody seems interested.

Why was that?  Is it that y'all don't like gold?  Or that y'all don't trust me?  Or?
Anonymous
Guest

August 23, 2010, 03:55:29 PM
 #95

Roll Eyes

OK, just drop any reference in the letter to any of those worthless fiat currencies.  Yes?

I'll still sell a few 0.1 oz gold bullion coins for Bitcoin.  Bidding for the first starts at 2,500 Bitcoin, and will close at midnight Sunday (GMT).  The buyer will cover postage, and accept all risks.
Nobody seems interested.

Why was that?  Is it that y'all don't like gold?  Or that y'all don't trust me?  Or?

Can you post to Australia? Smiley
ichi
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 70
Merit: 10


View Profile
August 23, 2010, 06:07:10 PM
 #96

That'd be iffy.  I wouldn't want to use DHL or whatever, because the'd want to know far too much about me.  I could use regular anonymous airmail, but a gold coin would be pretty obvious in an x-ray scan -- or even by feel.  Although I've have received several ounces of gold internationally by mail, that was registered and insured, with customs paperwork.  Any ideas?
nelisky
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1540
Merit: 1000


View Profile
August 23, 2010, 06:41:56 PM
 #97

That'd be iffy.  I wouldn't want to use DHL or whatever, because the'd want to know far too much about me.  I could use regular anonymous airmail, but a gold coin would be pretty obvious in an x-ray scan -- or even by feel.  Although I've have received several ounces of gold internationally by mail, that was registered and insured, with customs paperwork.  Any ideas?

Is it just me or this conversation has had a very sudden sidetrack here? Smiley

Unless the EFF has Australian offices and you'll be sending them the gold along with the letter, of course.
ichi
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 70
Merit: 10


View Profile
August 23, 2010, 06:46:20 PM
 #98

I apologize for that -- should have started another thread when I first made the offer.
Anonymous
Guest

August 23, 2010, 08:02:28 PM
 #99

That'd be iffy.  I wouldn't want to use DHL or whatever, because the'd want to know far too much about me.  I could use regular anonymous airmail, but a gold coin would be pretty obvious in an x-ray scan -- or even by feel.  Although I've have received several ounces of gold internationally by mail, that was registered and insured, with customs paperwork.  Any ideas?

Is it just me or this conversation has had a very sudden sidetrack here? Smiley

Unless the EFF has Australian offices and you'll be sending them the gold along with the letter, of course.

They do actually.The australian government has been threatening to filter the internet just as china does.You could say Australians are on the bleeding edge of this issue.The perfect way to put bitcoin donations to work is helping push back where the fight is.This has been worldwide news for awhile and the government is an international laughingstock because of it.They are also trying to ban pictures of small breasted women and female ejaculation because they think it is child porn and abberrant behaviour.

For more info look up "operation titstorm"  and  where anonymous ddos'd the Aus governments websites.
http://www.efa.org.au/


I will send them an email referencing this thread if that would be ok.


kiba
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 980
Merit: 1000


View Profile
August 24, 2010, 07:18:25 PM
 #100

Is the letter ready to send to EFF?

ichi
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 70
Merit: 10


View Profile
August 24, 2010, 08:36:19 PM
 #101

Yes.
MoonShadow
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1708
Merit: 1000



View Profile
August 24, 2010, 08:48:15 PM
 #102

I say it's time to ship the final draft.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
mizerydearia
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 574
Merit: 500



View Profile
August 24, 2010, 10:46:13 PM
 #103

Is the letter ready to send to EFF?

What does it look like?  I cannot tell if it's ready or not if I can't see latest changes.
\
Is this final draft?  http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=804.msg9021#msg9021
ichi
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 70
Merit: 10


View Profile
August 25, 2010, 05:17:50 AM
 #104

I propose the following.  It's based on everyone's suggestions, with a few tweaks.

==================================================

Dear Electronic Frontier Foundation,

The Bitcoin community appreciates your efforts protecting Internet freedom, and keeping the Internet free of unnecessary regulatory intervention.

The community using Bitcoin <https://bitcoin.org> -- a new open-source P2P cryptocurrency system published under the MIT license -- already comprises several hundred enterprises and individuals.

Several members of our community have offered to donate to your foundation, with 700 Bitcoins pledged so far.  In order to accept pledged and future donations, EFF would need to create and publish a Bitcoin address using a local client, or use an online service such as MyBitcoin.

Warmest regards,

Bitcoin community
mizerydearia
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 574
Merit: 500



View Profile
August 25, 2010, 05:40:52 AM
 #105

If classic letter, perhaps it would be interesting if Satoshi were to personally prepare the letter himself and to fancy it with Bitcoin-related art/imagery/symbolism and perhaps even have a Bitcoin sticker to seal the envelope. ^_^  That would be AMAZING! ... and definitely garnish some incentive, motivation and interest for the EFF to consider Bitcoin as a healthy establishment.

How should the letter be sent?
Red
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 210
Merit: 100


View Profile
August 25, 2010, 05:44:17 AM
 #106

Nice letter. It brought to mind the story of James Smithson donating a bunch of gold sovereigns to the unexpecting. :-)
ichi
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 70
Merit: 10


View Profile
August 25, 2010, 05:50:03 AM
 #107

How should the letter be sent?
One of us could email it.  I nominate kiba  Wink
MoonShadow
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1708
Merit: 1000



View Profile
August 25, 2010, 05:51:22 AM
 #108

How should the letter be sent?
One of us could email it.  I nominate kiba  Wink

Seconded!

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
fresno
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 94
Merit: 10


View Profile
August 25, 2010, 04:54:51 PM
 #109

Big-worded committee bloat is slipping in. Not knocking anyone's efforts!

Improvements should consist of removing and simplifying. I'm supposed to be working, but couldn't control myself:

Quote

Dear Electronic Frontier Foundation,

The Bitcoin community appreciates your efforts to protect freedom and to keep the Internet free of unnecessary regulatory intervention.

Bitcoin <https://bitcoin.org> is a new open-source P2P cryptocurrency system, published under the MIT license.

There are several hundred enterprises and individuals in the Bitcoin community. Many have expressed their desire to donate to your foundation, with 700 Bitcoins pledged to date. We are certain that you will receive many more in individual donations if you will set up your own EFF Bitcoin node.

Warmest regards,

The Bitcoin community

They will look at the site, and get back to us if they have any questions about how to receive Bitcoins. I doubt they'll have any trouble.

ichi
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 70
Merit: 10


View Profile
August 25, 2010, 10:00:24 PM
 #110

You rock  Smiley
mizerydearia
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 574
Merit: 500



View Profile
August 25, 2010, 11:16:32 PM
 #111

You rock  Smiley
kiba
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 980
Merit: 1000


View Profile
August 27, 2010, 03:35:33 PM
 #112

So....where do I send the letter to?

ichi
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 70
Merit: 10


View Profile
August 27, 2010, 04:37:40 PM
 #113

Unless one of us has a better address ...

membership@eff.org

"For membership, donation, corporate giving or matching gifts information"
kiba
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 980
Merit: 1000


View Profile
August 28, 2010, 04:15:06 PM
 #114

Quote
Dear Electronic Frontier Foundation,

The Bitcoin community appreciates your efforts to protect freedom and to keep the Internet free of unnecessary regulatory intervention.

 Bitcoin <https://bitcoin.org> is a new open-source P2P cryptocurrency system, published under the MIT license.

There are several enterprises and individuals in the Bitcoin community. Many have expressed their desire to donate to your foundation, with 800 Bitcoins pledged to date.

We are certain that you will receive many more in individual donations if you will set up your own EFF Bitcoin node.

Warmest regards,
The Bitcoin community

I sent this letter with "several" not "several hundred" to the EFF. I don't like to exaggerate.

ichi
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 70
Merit: 10


View Profile
August 28, 2010, 09:59:45 PM
 #115

Several = ca. seven  Wink
mizerydearia
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 574
Merit: 500



View Profile
August 29, 2010, 03:45:51 AM
 #116

Quote
Dear Electronic Frontier Foundation,

The Bitcoin community appreciates your efforts to protect freedom and to keep the Internet free of unnecessary regulatory intervention.

 Bitcoin <https://bitcoin.org> is a new open-source P2P cryptocurrency system, published under the MIT license.

There are several enterprises and individuals in the Bitcoin community. Many have expressed their desire to donate to your foundation with 800 Bitcoins pledged to date.

We are certain that you will receive many more in individual donations if you will set up your own EFF Bitcoin node.

Warmest regards,
The Bitcoin community

late grammar nazi:
Code:
before: Many have expressed their desire to donate to your foundation, with 800 Bitcoins pledged to date.
after:  Many have expressed their desire to donate to your foundation with 800 Bitcoins pledged to date.
kiba
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 980
Merit: 1000


View Profile
August 31, 2010, 01:45:23 AM
 #117

At this time, I still do not have anything from the EFF.

BioMike
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1621
Merit: 1001


View Profile
August 31, 2010, 04:20:10 AM
 #118

Give them some time.... it's not like that the only thing they do is checking their email for donations. Wink
Red
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 210
Merit: 100


View Profile
August 31, 2010, 02:28:29 PM
 #119

At this time, I still do not have anything from the EFF.

The EFF uses lots of college interns for donations and maintenance projects. As the school year is just about to start I would expect more attention after the new crop of recruits comes in.
kiba
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 980
Merit: 1000


View Profile
September 04, 2010, 08:38:22 PM
 #120

Nothingness and Nothingness.  Undecided

kiba
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 980
Merit: 1000


View Profile
September 08, 2010, 04:25:38 AM
 #121

No reply, ever. Any suggestion on how I should move next?

BioMike
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1621
Merit: 1001


View Profile
September 08, 2010, 05:03:08 AM
 #122

1) resend again to same address
2) resend to informatio AT eff DOT org
3) If you live in the US, send a fax or the letter via snail mail.
4) call them.

https://www.eff.org/about/contact
mizerydearia
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 574
Merit: 500



View Profile
September 08, 2010, 06:28:47 AM
 #123

If you call, record the phone call and if you live in state required by law to inform party, then do so. ^_^
Then post on Internets.
BrightAnarchist
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 853
Merit: 1000



View Profile
September 09, 2010, 04:14:11 AM
 #124

I might be able to help with this. I have a personal contact at the EFF. I will write a letter. No promises though.
Anonymous
Guest

September 09, 2010, 11:00:07 AM
 #125

I might be able to help with this. I have a personal contact with one of the guys who founded EFF. I will write him a letter. No promises though.

Thats a great idea.
kiba
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 980
Merit: 1000


View Profile
September 12, 2010, 05:38:18 AM
 #126

I might be able to help with this. I have a personal contact with one of the guys who founded EFF. I will write him a letter. No promises though.

Any progress for that matter?

gumtree
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 15
Merit: 0


View Profile
September 12, 2010, 12:44:20 PM
 #127

Probably just by sending everybody's Bitcoin commodity donations to the "eff" via Bitcoinmail to: membership at eff dot org  .... will introduce them to Bitcoins when they claim the donation (having to actually download the Bitcoin client app to receive the donation - and sell the Bitcoins for national currency - through one of the Bitcoin commodity exchanges if national currency might still be needed by them to conduct business in the conventional economy - alternatively they could embrace Bitcoin commodity and use Bitcoin commodity, as payment in like, if they can on there part again, reach agreement with their trading partners).  https://www.eff.org/about/contact
LZ
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1736
Merit: 1016


P2P Cryptocurrency


View Profile
September 12, 2010, 03:32:21 PM
 #128

And what if they'll add it to spam-list? Undecided

kiba
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 980
Merit: 1000


View Profile
September 12, 2010, 04:59:29 PM
 #129

Probably just by sending everybody's Bitcoin commodity donations to the "eff" via Bitcoinmail to: membership at eff dot org  .... will introduce them to Bitcoins when they claim the donation (having to actually download the Bitcoin client app to receive the donation - and sell the Bitcoins for national currency - through one of the Bitcoin commodity exchanges if national currency might still be needed by them to conduct business in the conventional economy - alternatively they could embrace Bitcoin commodity and use Bitcoin commodity, as payment in like, if they can on there part again, reach agreement with their trading partners).  https://www.eff.org/about/contact

I have choosen to use mybitcoin, which are essential online bitcoin account. Very easy to use. I just need to give them the password and the username.

BrightAnarchist
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 853
Merit: 1000



View Profile
September 13, 2010, 06:29:39 AM
 #130

I might be able to help with this. I have a personal contact with one of the guys who founded EFF. I will write him a letter. No promises though.

Any progress for that matter?

I sent an email and am now playing the waiting game.
gumtree
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 15
Merit: 0


View Profile
September 13, 2010, 12:39:36 PM
 #131

Probably just by sending everybody's Bitcoin commodity donations to the "eff" via Bitcoinmail to: membership at eff dot org  .... will introduce them to Bitcoins when they claim the donation (having to actually download the Bitcoin client app to receive the donation - and sell the Bitcoins for national currency - through one of the Bitcoin commodity exchanges if national currency might still be needed by them to conduct business in the conventional economy - alternatively they could embrace Bitcoin commodity and use Bitcoin commodity, as payment in like, if they can on there part again, reach agreement with their trading partners).  https://www.eff.org/about/contact

I have choosen to use mybitcoin, which are essential online bitcoin account. Very easy to use. I just need to give them the password and the username.

Safe idea, Kiba.  That way, if it does not get claimed by the eff - you did not automatically donate your coins to Bitcoinmail.com when you wanted to donate it to the eff (if the eff turned out to be unthankful/ignorant/not checking the spam folder from time to time ?!?)
BrightAnarchist
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 853
Merit: 1000



View Profile
September 13, 2010, 08:18:30 PM
 #132

Probably just by sending everybody's Bitcoin commodity donations to the "eff" via Bitcoinmail to: membership at eff dot org  .... will introduce them to Bitcoins when they claim the donation (having to actually download the Bitcoin client app to receive the donation - and sell the Bitcoins for national currency - through one of the Bitcoin commodity exchanges if national currency might still be needed by them to conduct business in the conventional economy - alternatively they could embrace Bitcoin commodity and use Bitcoin commodity, as payment in like, if they can on there part again, reach agreement with their trading partners).  https://www.eff.org/about/contact

I have choosen to use mybitcoin, which are essential online bitcoin account. Very easy to use. I just need to give them the password and the username.

Kiba -- please send me your email address ASAP using the forum personal message system. I'm in talks now to get this setup for the EFF and I need to loop you into the conversation.
BrightAnarchist
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 853
Merit: 1000



View Profile
September 13, 2010, 08:37:39 PM
 #133

Also, Kiba, please go ahead and post some Bitcoin addresses here for the EFF MyBitcoin account so we can all donate to it.

Great news: The EFF is definitely interested in recieving Bitcoins!

BioMike
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1621
Merit: 1001


View Profile
September 13, 2010, 08:49:29 PM
 #134



Great news: The EFF is definitely interested in recieving Bitcoins!



WhooHoo!!!
kiba
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 980
Merit: 1000


View Profile
September 13, 2010, 08:53:06 PM
 #135

Also, Kiba, please go ahead and post some Bitcoin addresses here for the EFF MyBitcoin account so we can all donate to it.

Great news: The EFF is definitely interested in recieving Bitcoins!



It's in another thread for EFF donations. I don't have much time to do anything right now as I am in college.

Also, can you please post the email message from the EFF so we know what it says or does that violate social convention.

BrightAnarchist
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 853
Merit: 1000



View Profile
September 13, 2010, 08:58:41 PM
 #136

Um, yeah it's a private email thread so it wouldn't be nice to post it publicly without asking permission.

All they need now is the username and password for the account. If you send me your email then I can introduce you into the conversation. You can then drop me and forward them the info privately.

I can handle the rest of communication with the EFF, such as recommending that they setup a donation area on their website, etc, but you need to send the account info yourself since you're the account trustee.

mizerydearia
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 574
Merit: 500



View Profile
September 14, 2010, 03:05:14 AM
 #137

Response I received:
Quote
Hi Aaron* and Mizery! It appears that the original message didn't make it to me (I get the membership@eff.org  messages), but we just heard from both of you yesterday. Smiley We're very happy to hear that EFF has such support in the Bitcoin community! What is the recommended course of action for us? Once raised, it seems that Bitcoin currency can be exchanged via PayPal or bank transfer, correct? Thanks again!

*name changed in case anonymity is desired
BrightAnarchist
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 853
Merit: 1000



View Profile
September 14, 2010, 03:40:28 AM
 #138

It's taken care of... kiba is continuing this thread and is going to send them a username/password so they can get their donations.

I haven't yet mentioned anything about having them setup a donations page yet... I think I'll wait until Kiba confirms that they have successfully recieved their coins. Once they're happy with the donation, I'll mention that there are more donations to come if they put up an official bitcoin donation box on their website.
kiba
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 980
Merit: 1000


View Profile
September 14, 2010, 03:43:06 AM
 #139

Done. Now all that's left is to wait.

BrightAnarchist
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 853
Merit: 1000



View Profile
September 14, 2010, 03:51:05 AM
 #140

Done. Now all that's left is to wait.

Sweet! Did you ask if they would post an address on their website for future bitcoin donations?

I haven't asked this yet and don't want to annoy if you already asked.
kiba
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 980
Merit: 1000


View Profile
September 14, 2010, 03:51:44 AM
 #141

Done. Now all that's left is to wait.

Sweet! Did you ask if they would post an address on their website for future bitcoin donations?

I haven't asked this yet and don't want to annoy if you already asked.
Nope. My email was simply about the mybitcoin account.

BrightAnarchist
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 853
Merit: 1000



View Profile
September 14, 2010, 03:57:19 AM
 #142

Done. Now all that's left is to wait.

Sweet! Did you ask if they would post an address on their website for future bitcoin donations?

I haven't asked this yet and don't want to annoy if you already asked.
Nope. My email was simply about the mybitcoin account.

Okay cool, in that case I'll follow up and mention that there are more coins coming their way if the publish a bitcoin donation address on their website.
BrightAnarchist
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 853
Merit: 1000



View Profile
September 14, 2010, 04:02:08 AM
 #143

Done.

"I hope you decide to offer a bitcoin donation address on your website. There are many more people who haved pledged additional coins if this is offerred, and it provides a convenient method for future bitcoin donations.
 
Thanks, and let me know if you have any problems with the account!"

If I hear back that they're actually going to do this, of course, I'll post and let you know!
kiba
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 980
Merit: 1000


View Profile
September 16, 2010, 12:46:14 AM
 #144

Have you heard anything back?

BrightAnarchist
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 853
Merit: 1000



View Profile
September 16, 2010, 02:18:28 AM
 #145

Have you heard anything back?

No, nothing yet.
kiba
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 980
Merit: 1000


View Profile
September 18, 2010, 10:13:40 PM
 #146

Anything yet?

BrightAnarchist
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 853
Merit: 1000



View Profile
September 19, 2010, 12:06:25 AM
 #147

Anything yet?

LOL, nope Sad
mizerydearia
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 574
Merit: 500



View Profile
September 19, 2010, 12:15:44 AM
 #148

How about now?  Anything?
BrightAnarchist
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 853
Merit: 1000



View Profile
September 19, 2010, 12:39:39 AM
 #149


*Checks emal* No, still nothing.

Btw, I'm not sure if they feel the need to reply and say anything. I mean, I didn't specifically request a reply as in "please tell me what your plans are". I just left it on their plate.

But I agree that I'm dying, just as you are, wondering if they're going to post a Bitcoin donation box on their website or not. They may not even know yet -- maybe they're talking about it, or maybe they just want to liquidate the coins.

Any ideas on the course of action at this point? Should I wait a month, and if they don't post one, then ask specifically what their plans are? I feel that we've done everything possible to enourage them, so any additional bugging would just be bothersome.
silverman
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 59
Merit: 0


View Profile
September 19, 2010, 03:04:15 PM
 #150

Pestering them about a Bitcoin button is not a good idea. It was a gift, not a bribe.

Just give them the Bitcoins and follow up in two weeks.

mizerydearia
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 574
Merit: 500



View Profile
September 19, 2010, 10:50:50 PM
 #151

Pestering them about a Bitcoin button is not a good idea. It was a gift, not a bribe.

Just give them the Bitcoins and follow up in two weeks.

2 weeks
2,419,200 seconds
Same amount of time as expected time to generate 2,016 blocks
kiba
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 980
Merit: 1000


View Profile
September 23, 2010, 05:52:19 PM
 #152

Pestering them about a Bitcoin button is not a good idea. It was a gift, not a bribe.

Just give them the Bitcoins and follow up in two weeks.

2 weeks
2,419,200 seconds
Same amount of time as expected time to generate 2,016 blocks

How many days we have left?

S3052
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2100
Merit: 1000


View Profile
September 28, 2010, 09:49:15 PM
 #153

news?

kiba
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 980
Merit: 1000


View Profile
September 29, 2010, 04:29:07 PM
 #154

news?

We need news!

mizerydearia
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 574
Merit: 500



View Profile
September 29, 2010, 05:04:09 PM
 #155

news at 11?
BrightAnarchist
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 853
Merit: 1000



View Profile
September 30, 2010, 01:59:39 AM
 #156

Should I follow up with the EFF? What do I ask?
kiba
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 980
Merit: 1000


View Profile
September 30, 2010, 02:56:11 AM
 #157

Should I follow up with the EFF? What do I ask?

Indeed...what to do.

Unfortunately, I lack facilities in learning and discovering social norms.[1]


----
1. That's a bit of an exaggeration. Let just say that I have asperger syndrome and I am slow to catch on as far as the social game goes.

silverman
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 59
Merit: 0


View Profile
September 30, 2010, 05:11:32 PM
 #158


Do I understand correctly? mizerydearia is our spokesman, and received the following from an EFF rep:

Quote
Hi Aaron* and Mizery! It appears that the original message didn't make it to me (I get the membership@eff.org  messages), but we just heard from both of you yesterday. Smiley We're very happy to hear that EFF has such support in the Bitcoin community! What is the recommended course of action for us? Once raised, it seems that Bitcoin currency can be exchanged via PayPal or bank transfer, correct? Thanks again!

Did we reply to this? From the same email address? Are they aware of the bitcoin.exe program and website, or just of mybitcoin.com?

(And is mybitcoin.com our project? Has mybitcoin.com been reachable from the 'net recently?)

Does EFF know what they can do with their donated Bitcoins? IOW "Who are you, and what's in it for the EFF?"




BrightAnarchist
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 853
Merit: 1000



View Profile
September 30, 2010, 05:15:32 PM
 #159

Did we reply to this? From the same email address? Are they aware of the bitcoin.exe program and website, or just of mybitcoin.com?

(And is mybitcoin.com our project? Has mybitcoin.com been reachable from the 'net recently?)

Does EFF know what they can do with their donated Bitcoins? IOW "Who are you, and what's in it for the EFF?"

Yes, we replied and they definitely understand that they can exchange their BTC for USD.
silverman
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 59
Merit: 0


View Profile
October 01, 2010, 12:38:16 AM
 #160


I'm unclear on who is acting as spokesperson in this matter, his/her authority, and what information has been exchanged with the EFF.

We were led to believe that this was a group effort, and traded over a hundred posts composing a letter that we could agree on, yet it appears that communications have been held since that we are not privy to.

I am especially concerned with the statement that "they definitely understand that they can exchange their BTC for USD." Did someone in a responsible position make this policy, or was this an ad lib?








MoonShadow
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1708
Merit: 1000



View Profile
October 01, 2010, 12:48:33 AM
 #161


I'm unclear on who is acting as spokesperson in this matter, his/her authority, and what information has been exchanged with the EFF.

We were led to believe that this was a group effort, and traded over a hundred posts composing a letter that we could agree on, yet it appears that communications have been held since that we are not privy to.

I am especially concerned with the statement that "they definitely understand that they can exchange their BTC for USD." Did someone in a responsible position make this policy, or was this an ad lib?


Anyone can act upon their own authority, they don't need our approval.  It is to their credit that they asked for commentary and support, but none need that to act.  This is not an action committee.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
LZ
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1736
Merit: 1016


P2P Cryptocurrency


View Profile
October 01, 2010, 01:16:36 AM
 #162

May be we should just donate to other foundation? Roll Eyes

kiba
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 980
Merit: 1000


View Profile
October 01, 2010, 01:44:39 AM
 #163

Perhaps the next step is to ask if they have access to the account or need help.

You could ask them if they would like to receive more bitcoin? Thus leading to the question if they will put up a donation box.

FreeMoney
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1246
Merit: 1001


Strength in numbers


View Profile WWW
October 01, 2010, 02:53:51 AM
 #164

Perhaps the next step is to ask if they have access to the account or need help.

You could ask them if they would like to receive more bitcoin? Thus leading to the question if they will put up a donation box.

So there has been no verification that the funds were even received?

Play Bitcoin Poker at sealswithclubs.eu. We're active and open to everyone.
BrightAnarchist
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 853
Merit: 1000



View Profile
October 01, 2010, 03:59:58 AM
 #165

Perhaps the next step is to ask if they have access to the account or need help.

You could ask them if they would like to receive more bitcoin? Thus leading to the question if they will put up a donation box.

So there has been no verification that the funds were even received?

The only "verification" you have is Kiba and I's word that we were involved in an email thread with one of the heads of the EFF where we gave them the account information.

If you have any ideas on how we can get the EFF to prove that they recieved the funds, I'm definitely game.

If you want I will post the entire email thread here and just block out the names.
BrightAnarchist
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 853
Merit: 1000



View Profile
October 01, 2010, 04:22:02 AM
 #166

Edit: this post used to contain the email thread, but I removed it for EFF's privacy.
kiba
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 980
Merit: 1000


View Profile
October 01, 2010, 04:42:26 AM
 #167

You should remove the account info for the bitcoin account as soon as possible.

BrightAnarchist
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 853
Merit: 1000



View Profile
October 01, 2010, 05:50:32 AM
 #168

You should remove the account info for the bitcoin account as soon as possible.

Sorry about that
FreeMoney
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1246
Merit: 1001


Strength in numbers


View Profile WWW
October 01, 2010, 10:04:28 AM
 #169

I wasn't saying that I don't trust Kiba to give a record of the correspondance, I just meant I hadn't followed carefully and didn't realize that they didn't even give a "Thanks, we'll check it out" response, or even a stock "We got your email" message.

I'd say they rejected the donation. (Probably because they are busy eating and drinking with politicians.)

Play Bitcoin Poker at sealswithclubs.eu. We're active and open to everyone.
silverman
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 59
Merit: 0


View Profile
October 01, 2010, 02:33:32 PM
 #170

I wasn't saying that I don't trust Kiba to give a record of the correspondance, I just meant I hadn't followed carefully and didn't realize that they didn't even give a "Thanks, we'll check it out" response, or even a stock "We got your email" message.

I'd say they rejected the donation. (Probably because they are busy eating and drinking with politicians.)

Probably because we failed to show any benefit to EFF or to their community.

We had an opportunity to introduce a new system of accounting, which could revolutionize payments on the web. What we showed them was forty bucks--IF they hassled with our software and sketchy exchange service.

Somebody trade the Bitcoins into money, so they can get something out of this exchange.



kiba
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 980
Merit: 1000


View Profile
October 01, 2010, 03:50:41 PM
 #171

.
I'd say they rejected the donation. (Probably because they are busy eating and drinking with politicians.)

I am going to go with the optimistic hypothesis that they got bigger fish to fry than try to exchange bitcoins for paypal dollars.

With the famousness that they have with geeks, it wouldn't be surprising that they simply forgot our email.

BrightAnarchist
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 853
Merit: 1000



View Profile
October 01, 2010, 06:44:30 PM
 #172

The fact is, if we don't get a response within the next week ... or 2 weeks at the most ... I mean, at some point we need to follow up, right?

I just need to figure out what to ask.
kiba
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 980
Merit: 1000


View Profile
October 01, 2010, 08:41:12 PM
 #173

The fact is, if we don't get a response within the next week ... or 2 weeks at the most ... I mean, at some point we need to follow up, right?

I just need to figure out what to ask.


Hi, did you managed to get control of the mybitcoin account?

FreeMoney
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1246
Merit: 1001


Strength in numbers


View Profile WWW
October 01, 2010, 09:02:45 PM
 #174

.
I'd say they rejected the donation. (Probably because they are busy eating and drinking with politicians.)

I am going to go with the optimistic hypothesis that they got bigger fish to fry than try to exchange bitcoins for paypal dollars.

With the famousness that they have with geeks, it wouldn't be surprising that they simply forgot our email.

Even if no money was attached it is pretty lame for a company claiming to be fighting for freedom to not be interested in a money that can be used freely.

Play Bitcoin Poker at sealswithclubs.eu. We're active and open to everyone.
kiba
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 980
Merit: 1000


View Profile
October 01, 2010, 09:47:06 PM
 #175

.
I'd say they rejected the donation. (Probably because they are busy eating and drinking with politicians.)

I am going to go with the optimistic hypothesis that they got bigger fish to fry than try to exchange bitcoins for paypal dollars.

With the famousness that they have with geeks, it wouldn't be surprising that they simply forgot our email.

Even if no money was attached it is pretty lame for a company claiming to be fighting for freedom to not be interested in a money that can be used freely.

You mean, uh, charity.

BrightAnarchist
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 853
Merit: 1000



View Profile
October 01, 2010, 11:22:47 PM
 #176

The fact is, if we don't get a response within the next week ... or 2 weeks at the most ... I mean, at some point we need to follow up, right?

I just need to figure out what to ask.


Hi, did you managed to get control of the mybitcoin account?

Makes sense. What do you say -- wait 1 week and then ask?

Apparently I'm incapable of making an independent decision.
kiba
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 980
Merit: 1000


View Profile
October 02, 2010, 04:41:04 AM
 #177

The fact is, if we don't get a response within the next week ... or 2 weeks at the most ... I mean, at some point we need to follow up, right?

I just need to figure out what to ask.


Hi, did you managed to get control of the mybitcoin account?

Makes sense. What do you say -- wait 1 week and then ask?

Apparently I'm incapable of making an independent decision.

Have we not wait two weeks already?

Anonymous
Guest

October 02, 2010, 04:43:28 AM
 #178

We could always pick another recipient. I vote for Stephan Molyneux.

While he is not the eff he is the pre-eminent liberty philosopher of our time.
The Madhatter
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 490
Merit: 500


My avatar pic says it all


View Profile
October 02, 2010, 04:49:16 AM
 #179

A registered letter should be sent to the EFF if you want them to take you seriously.

I also like "stefbot" (Stephen Molyneux). I've been trying to get a hold of him for weeks. I want his site to accept Bitcoin donations. Smiley
kiba
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 980
Merit: 1000


View Profile
October 02, 2010, 05:15:01 AM
 #180

We could always pick another recipient. I vote for Stephan Molyneux.

While he is not the eff he is the pre-eminent liberty philosopher of our time.

I would prefer not to waste the donations of everyone here in the community. The donation was already sent. At the very least, the EFF would liquidate the coins.

kiba
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 980
Merit: 1000


View Profile
October 02, 2010, 05:19:14 AM
 #181

We could always pick another recipient. I vote for Stephan Molyneux.

While he is not the eff he is the pre-eminent liberty philosopher of our time.

ESR might be willing to accept bitcoin donations.

He is both a hacker and anarchist and he would fit right in with the bitcoin community.

BrightAnarchist
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 853
Merit: 1000



View Profile
October 02, 2010, 07:38:54 AM
 #182

In the future we should not do donations in this manner. We should request that they put up a donation box, and say that IF they do this then and only then will we donate coins.

In any event, I'm going to go ahead and send some sort of follow up to the EFF this weekend.
BioMike
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1621
Merit: 1001


View Profile
October 02, 2010, 08:14:36 AM
 #183

I'm not a supporter of donating something and then later (when they are not interested directly) saying, well then give it back. Especially because many people donated to their cause, not some other organisation. How do you think (let's stretch it a bit far) if people donated for the WWF and saw their money going to the PETA, because the WWF was not interested but the PETA is.

Personally, I see two options that I can feel happy with:
1) Keep the account with the bitcoins for a few years and send an automated mail to the EFF yearly. If bitcoin really catches the market they might become more interested.
2) Contact one of their sister organisations in other countries, asking if they are interested.

<edit>For point 2, mail the EFF with an ultimatum for the EFF to collect the coins.</edit>
BrightAnarchist
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 853
Merit: 1000



View Profile
October 02, 2010, 07:03:05 PM
 #184

2) Contact one of their sister organisations in other countries, asking if they are interested.

<edit>For point 2, mail the EFF with an ultimatum for the EFF to collect the coins.</edit>

Ultimatum? I don't understand ...
BioMike
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1621
Merit: 1001


View Profile
October 02, 2010, 08:21:02 PM
 #185

2) Contact one of their sister organisations in other countries, asking if they are interested.

<edit>For point 2, mail the EFF with an ultimatum for the EFF to collect the coins.</edit>

Ultimatum? I don't understand ...

"If we don't hear from you before <some_date> we assume that you are not interested in the donation and we will find an other organisation that might be more interested in this donation."

Or something like that.
kiba
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 980
Merit: 1000


View Profile
October 02, 2010, 08:30:14 PM
 #186

2) Contact one of their sister organisations in other countries, asking if they are interested.

<edit>For point 2, mail the EFF with an ultimatum for the EFF to collect the coins.</edit>

Ultimatum? I don't understand ...

"If we don't hear from you before <some_date> we assume that you are not interested in the donation and we will find an other organisation that might be more interested in this donation."

Or something like that.

Well it's kinda impossible at this point. I already hand them the mybitcoin account.

BioMike
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1621
Merit: 1001


View Profile
October 02, 2010, 08:32:22 PM
 #187


Well it's kinda impossible at this point. I already hand them the mybitcoin account.

Ah. I was under the impression that we still would have access to the bitcoins (because, other people mentioned to donate them to some other organisation).
FreeMoney
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1246
Merit: 1001


Strength in numbers


View Profile WWW
October 03, 2010, 12:44:59 AM
 #188


Well it's kinda impossible at this point. I already hand them the mybitcoin account.

Ah. I was under the impression that we still would have access to the bitcoins (because, other people mentioned to donate them to some other organisation).

None of the coins in the account were ever mine so I don't really have standing here.

But I think you could interpret the interaction thus far as you holding your hand out offering a bag full of coins for 3 weeks and not even getting a nod. You are not stealing if you pull back the bag. They had the ability to take them for a long time and didn't do it.

Play Bitcoin Poker at sealswithclubs.eu. We're active and open to everyone.
mizerydearia
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 574
Merit: 500



View Profile
October 03, 2010, 02:32:43 AM
 #189

Reminds me of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PayPal#Criticism_and_limitations in September 2005 when PayPal tried to instead divert the donations to a fraudulent charity instead of the Red Cross as Something Awful members had anticipated.

Of course this issue is different in that Kiba is not freezing any funds, however each individual funder should have a say in whether their funds are returned to them, to be preserved in donation to EFF or any other action.  I wouldn't change the course of action for the funds as a whole without permission from all donaters.
BrightAnarchist
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 853
Merit: 1000



View Profile
October 03, 2010, 07:59:36 PM
 #190

Okay, I sent a brief follow-up today.

"Hi [name omitted]! I haven't heard back from you so I wanted to do a quick follow-up. Did you managed to get control of the mybitcoin account?

Thanks,
[BrightAnarchist]"

I'll let you know if I hear back.
mizerydearia
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 574
Merit: 500



View Profile
October 03, 2010, 08:52:33 PM
 #191

Hmm, is there a reason to censor their (Aaron Jue or Mitchell Kapor) name?
silverman
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 59
Merit: 0


View Profile
October 04, 2010, 03:27:42 PM
 #192

Know everything you can about your customers:

http://news.slashdot.org/story/10/10/04/1454231/Free-Software-Foundation-Turns-25

kiba
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 980
Merit: 1000


View Profile
October 04, 2010, 04:20:53 PM
 #193


Stallman is less receptive than Raymond simply because Stallman is just a moderate socialist. Raymond is an anarchist and he's already siting on the fence about IP abolishment.

Nonetheless, I don't know if the free software crowd would be receptive to bitcoin and ciphergeeks and anarchistic hackers that surround it.

silverman
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 59
Merit: 0


View Profile
October 04, 2010, 04:27:34 PM
 #194

Oops! I confused the FSF with the EFF. Sorry!



MoonShadow
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1708
Merit: 1000



View Profile
October 04, 2010, 06:14:01 PM
 #195


Stallman is less receptive than Raymond simply because Stallman is just a moderate socialist. Raymond is an anarchist and he's already siting on the fence about IP abolishment.

Nonetheless, I don't know if the free software crowd would be receptive to bitcoin and ciphergeeks and anarchistic hackers that surround it.

Individuals aside, I'd wager that Bitcoin is already fairly popular among FS/OSS types whom are aware of it's existance.  I am such a free software geek from long ago, even though I'm not a coder.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
kiba
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 980
Merit: 1000


View Profile
October 05, 2010, 10:13:14 PM
 #196

No email from the EFF?  Huh

Maybe ya need to send a letter until it get noticed by the EFF people.

kiba
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 980
Merit: 1000


View Profile
October 06, 2010, 07:50:03 PM
 #197

No email?  Cry

BrightAnarchist
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 853
Merit: 1000



View Profile
October 06, 2010, 08:32:49 PM
 #198

No email?  Cry

Nothing, no response
kiba
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 980
Merit: 1000


View Profile
October 06, 2010, 08:40:03 PM
 #199


Try again?

BrightAnarchist
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 853
Merit: 1000



View Profile
October 06, 2010, 10:18:52 PM
 #200


Maybe someone else should try?
BrightAnarchist
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 853
Merit: 1000



View Profile
October 07, 2010, 11:42:29 PM
 #201

Hmm, is there a reason to censor their ... name?

Please remove these names immediately.
BrightAnarchist
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 853
Merit: 1000



View Profile
October 07, 2010, 11:59:00 PM
 #202

GREAT NEWS!!

I heard back today. Basically, they say that yes they got the account and that they're most likely going to liquidate the coins for USD through one of the exchanges.

In addition, they also said:

"Once all the logistics are squared away, we plan to place this on our Ways to Help page and notify our social networks. At this time, it isn't possible to integrate it with our membership donation forms.  Thanks for taking the time to contact us again and for everyone's generosity!"

So it looks like they're going to post a Bitcoin donation address in their "Ways to Help" page!

YaHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
BrightAnarchist
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 853
Merit: 1000



View Profile
October 08, 2010, 12:11:06 AM
 #203

Btw, the reason it took so long way due to the difficulty of deciding if they wanted to be accepting anonymous donations via Bitcoin or not. Looks like they decided yes, even if they put it in a "less formal" donation area.
kiba
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 980
Merit: 1000


View Profile
October 08, 2010, 12:33:40 AM
 #204

Two months of work....success!

MoonShadow
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1708
Merit: 1000



View Profile
October 08, 2010, 01:44:23 AM
 #205

Btw, the reason it took so long way due to the difficulty of deciding if they wanted to be accepting anonymous donations via Bitcoin or not. Looks like they decided yes, even if they put it in a "less formal" donation area.

I wonder if there is a legal liability with accepting anonymous donations.  I know that donations to political action committees and election campaigns require disclosure.  Perhaps they were trying to figure out a way to accept them and keep the funds seperate of their political activities.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
kiba
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 980
Merit: 1000


View Profile
October 08, 2010, 02:57:20 AM
 #206

I guess this thread will be used for news of EFF's eventual implementation of bitcoins.

mizerydearia
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 574
Merit: 500



View Profile
October 08, 2010, 06:40:26 AM
 #207

I had contacted Aaron (EFF's Aaron, not Aaron name changed below) yesterday with the following message:
Quote
Hello Aaron,

Apparently your organization has not produced a response or message to the Bitcoin community regarding and a lack of attention or update is generating a bit of concern.  I have not been included in the emails that have been sent beyond the one below, however, you may see the current status of the community discussion at http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=804.180

Sincerely,
Mizery

Here is their response:
Quote
Hey Aaron* and Mizery. It's taken longer to get back to you than I expected - I apologize for causing any panic.  While we like the idea of incorporating an anonymous donation system with Bitcoin, it's not a small decision for us.  Most of EFF's suppport comes from checks and credit cards so there are pros and cons to consider in adding this. I hope you don't think we left you in the dust! I have the MyBitcoin account info from before and I recently set up a Bitcoin Market account as we will likely exchange these via PayPal later on.

We are currently using the address: 1MCwBbhNGp5hRm5rC1Aims2YFRe2SXPYKt, however the market site states, "CAUTION: ALL BITCOIN ADDRESSES FOR DEPOSITS HAVE CHANGED" and I'm not certain what that means. What am I missing?

Once all the logistics are squared away, we plan to place this on our Ways to Help page and notify our social networks. At this time, it isn't possible to integrate it with our membership donation forms.  Thanks for taking the time to contact us again and for everyone's generosity!

* Bitcoin community member name changed since it is not identical to their forum alias.

My follow-up:
Quote
Hello Aaron,

Thank you for your prompt response.
        
Regarding https://bitcoinmarket.com's cautionary warning, you should not have any concern for it really.  What it means is, if you have previously saved into your address book or other means a Bitcoin address for depositing bitcoins from your client into your Bitcoin Market account, you may want to take caution and to verify that the address is updated since the site owner has establish a new Bitcoin wallet and therefore will not actively monitor previously established addresses.  If you have a Bitcoin Market account you may visit the "Funds" page at https://bitcoinmarket.com/home/funds/ and see a similar notice, warning you to make certain that when you send bitcoins to make sure it is the correct address.  Do keep in mind that http://bitcoinmarket.com is an exchange market and is separate service/site owner from http://mybitcoin.com  Additionally there are other exchange markets besides Bitcoin Market.  You can see which other exchange markets exist by visiting http://bitcoin.org/trade.  Mt. Gox is also popular.

Additionally, do keep in mind that the value of bitcoins are in flux.  About four months ago someone offered 10,000 bitcoins for about us$25 worth of pizza.  Just about two weeks ago 10,000 bitcoins were exchangeable for ~us$650.  About one week ago, 10,000 bitcoins were exchangeable for ~us$580.  Now, 10,000 bitcoins is exchangeable for ~us$709.  It is very likely that the value will increase in the next few days, however, it is not guaranteed.  You should also consider the likelihood that bitcoins will increase in value and for example (this is just an example and may or may not be true at any time), 10,000 bitcoins could be valued at ~us$70,000 or even beyond.  Considering that as bitcoins becomes more successful and used more by the masses, the value will increase, and therefore you may want to consider preserving donations as bitcoins and not to convert or exchange it into usd or another currency.  However, the choice is yours.
        
Sincerely,
Mizery
theymos
Administrator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 3080
Merit: 3265


View Profile
October 08, 2010, 06:47:30 AM
 #208

Quote
We are currently using the address: 1MCwBbhNGp5hRm5rC1Aims2YFRe2SXPYKt, however the market site states, "CAUTION: ALL BITCOIN ADDRESSES FOR DEPOSITS HAVE CHANGED" and I'm not certain what that means. What am I missing?

Tell them that this is only relevant for people who had BCM's receiving address saved. BCM regenerated everyone's unique address for deposits into BCM.

The warnings at the top of bitcoin.org, bitcoin.org/smf/, and BCM don't look good to outsiders... It makes the system look unstable.

1NXYoJ5xU91Jp83XfVMHwwTUyZFK64BoAD
BioMike
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1621
Merit: 1001


View Profile
October 08, 2010, 07:01:52 AM
 #209

WOW, great!
mizerydearia
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 574
Merit: 500



View Profile
October 08, 2010, 05:24:56 PM
 #210

Response to my email (above):
Quote
Thanks, Mizery! I'm going to check out Mt. Gox as well. It's pretty new to most of us, so thank you for your advice and help.
kiba
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 980
Merit: 1000


View Profile
October 22, 2010, 11:26:43 PM
 #211

So I don't see any mentions to donating to bitcoins on EFF's WAY TO HELP page?

true
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 56
Merit: 0


View Profile
October 23, 2010, 02:36:07 AM
 #212

Great - another way to fund useless "rights protectors" that do little more than talk about how good they are and take high profile cases to elevate lawyer's income and / or egos.

did you know that the internet is not a 1ATWN2bMDRRfo7Z2P8Fefvq791X6FT88WQ ?
calling me a troll gives me a massive raging boner
kiba
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 980
Merit: 1000


View Profile
October 24, 2010, 03:17:29 AM
 #213

Someone will need to commence asking EFF what is up.

FreeMoney
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1246
Merit: 1001


Strength in numbers


View Profile WWW
October 24, 2010, 05:46:47 AM
 #214

Great - another way to fund useless "rights protectors" that do little more than talk about how good they are and take high profile cases to elevate lawyer's income and / or egos.

Yeah you can't blame them though, they wouldn't want to put a reference to bitcoin on the site and have it come up during their fancy dinners with congressmen.

Play Bitcoin Poker at sealswithclubs.eu. We're active and open to everyone.
kiba
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 980
Merit: 1000


View Profile
October 30, 2010, 07:38:56 PM
 #215

Seem to me that nobody is willing to do the deed, I guess I'll have to contact them.

MoonShadow
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1708
Merit: 1000



View Profile
October 30, 2010, 10:00:28 PM
 #216

Seem to me that nobody is willing to do the deed, I guess I'll have to contact them.

I sent them an email about four days ago, I have had no response.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
Timo Y
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 938
Merit: 1001


bitcoin - the aerogel of money


View Profile
November 09, 2010, 09:10:57 AM
 #217

Success!

http://www.eff.org/helpout

"Donate to EFF using Bitcoin P2P Cryptocurrency. Transfer money from your Bitcoin account to ours: 1MCwBbhNGp5hRm5rC1Aims2YFRe2SXPYKt"

GPG ID: FA868D77   bitcoin-otc:forever-d
BrightAnarchist
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 853
Merit: 1000



View Profile
November 09, 2010, 09:15:13 AM
 #218

Success!

http://www.eff.org/helpout

"Donate to EFF using Bitcoin P2P Cryptocurrency. Transfer money from your Bitcoin account to ours: 1MCwBbhNGp5hRm5rC1Aims2YFRe2SXPYKt"

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT!!

Me very excite!!
ShadowOfHarbringer
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1470
Merit: 1000


Bringing Legendary Har® to you since 1952


View Profile
November 09, 2010, 09:19:28 AM
 #219

Success!

http://www.eff.org/helpout

"Donate to EFF using Bitcoin P2P Cryptocurrency. Transfer money from your Bitcoin account to ours: 1MCwBbhNGp5hRm5rC1Aims2YFRe2SXPYKt"

Dear Sir, that is pure juicy AWESOMNESS !
Bitcoin rocks !

da2ce7
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1221
Merit: 1000


Live and Let Live


View Profile
November 09, 2010, 09:21:47 AM
 #220

Yeah, thanks heaps! I just sent 50  Cheesy

One off NP-Hard.
Anonymous
Guest

November 09, 2010, 09:24:28 AM
 #221

wow. Im speechless. Shocked

BrightAnarchist
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 853
Merit: 1000



View Profile
November 09, 2010, 09:28:18 AM
 #222

wow. Im speechless. Shocked



Same here. I had completely given up on the EFF, even after they sent the mail confirming that they would do this. Mega surprise!

I bet the recent increase in valuations made them crave bitcoins all the more! I mean, when we made the original donations, Bitcoins were only at 6 cents each.
ribuck
Donator
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 826
Merit: 1003


View Profile
November 09, 2010, 10:48:10 AM
 #223

Totally awesome. Donation sent. Thanks to those who worked to make this possible.

Also, this should make it possible to get Bitcoin back on Wikipedia.
Anonymous
Guest

November 09, 2010, 11:36:12 AM
 #224

I would just like to thank Kiba for starting this . If you want to show your appreciation join his Mutual Aid association  http://fivegrinder.com/group/Bitcoin Mutual Aid Association and also his new project  http://www.soulplaying.com/ .

I urge everyone to support what he is doing .

brocktice
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 292
Merit: 250


Apparently I inspired this image.


View Profile WWW
November 09, 2010, 01:57:17 PM
 #225

I'm already donating to them in USD but I'm very happy to see them taking bitcoins, so I sent them a BTC donation to show them we mean it. Smiley

http://media.witcoin.com/p/1608/8----This-is-nuts

My #bitcoin-otc ratings: http://bitcoin-otc.com/viewratingdetail.php?nick=brocktice&sign=ANY&type=RECV

Like my post? Leave me a tip: 15Cgixqno9YzoKNEA2DRFyEAfMH5htssRg
mpkomara
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 183
Merit: 100



View Profile
November 09, 2010, 02:16:11 PM
 #226

i donated 69 btc.  in general i will donate anything towards getting bitcoin back on wikipedia.
kiba
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 980
Merit: 1000


View Profile
November 09, 2010, 04:49:58 PM
 #227

Wow...just wow.

Thanks for everybody who help and donated the funds for EFF.

ribuck
Donator
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 826
Merit: 1003


View Profile
November 10, 2010, 10:45:47 AM
 #228

... getting bitcoin back on wikipedia.
I got a reply from the guy who deleted the Wikipedia article.

He pointed to the procedure for undeleting articles, and mentioned that the Bitcoin article has already been through that procedure twice but the appeals were rejected because Bitcoin doesn't have enough respectable mainstream coverage. I think that the Wikipedia criteria are not well-structured to non-mainstream topics, but that's how it is.

One major way that commercial enterprises get mainstream coverage is by issuing a press release, which gets picked up and re-hashed by all kinds of publications that Wikipedia respects. So if anyone knows someone who can write an effective press release in the standard format, it would be a great idea.

Of course a press release needs a subject, but "Bitcoin Economy Passes $1 Million" would do just fine.
JohnDoe
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 392
Merit: 250



View Profile
November 10, 2010, 12:30:41 PM
 #229

Awesome news.

Props to kiba, BrightAnarchist and everyone else who spent time getting this done.
Anonymous
Guest

November 10, 2010, 12:41:30 PM
 #230

... getting bitcoin back on wikipedia.
I got a reply from the guy who deleted the Wikipedia article.

He pointed to the procedure for undeleting articles, and mentioned that the Bitcoin article has already been through that procedure twice but the appeals were rejected because Bitcoin doesn't have enough respectable mainstream coverage. I think that the Wikipedia criteria are not well-structured to non-mainstream topics, but that's how it is.

One major way that commercial enterprises get mainstream coverage is by issuing a press release, which gets picked up and re-hashed by all kinds of publications that Wikipedia respects. So if anyone knows someone who can write an effective press release in the standard format, it would be a great idea.

Of course a press release needs a subject, but "Bitcoin Economy Passes $1 Million" would do just fine.

http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1355.0
 I came up with a list of press release sites awhile ago for bitcoinmedia.

* Write up a press release about bitcoin and distribute it to some of the bazillion free PR services eg
http://www.free-press-release.com/
http://www.prlog.org/
http://www.pr.com/press-releases

Here is a list of 50 such sites
http://www.avangate.com/articles/press-release-distribution_69.htm


If someone wants to write something I will spend a few days registering and posting it. Wish someone could write a script that submitted to all of them at once lol.
ribuck
Donator
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 826
Merit: 1003


View Profile
November 10, 2010, 01:58:08 PM
 #231

If someone wants to write something I will spend a few days registering and posting it. Wish someone could write a script that submitted to all of them at once lol.
No need to send it to all of them. The three that you listed is plenty. Any journalist who follows releases distributed on free sites will find them.

They key is to get the release written right. The journalist needs to be able to see at a glance that it's newsworthy and reliable. If the journalist has to come to the website and spend a few hours working out what it's all about, they're unlikely to bother.
jorgen
VIP
Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 113
Merit: 10


View Profile
November 13, 2010, 11:28:03 PM
 #232

cool! donated to EFF 0.9+50
jimbobway
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1405
Merit: 1007



View Profile
November 14, 2010, 12:45:41 AM
 #233

Bitcoin Blogger Article Smiley

http://www.bitcoinblogger.com/2010/11/bitcoin-gains-legal-protection-through.html
Anonymous
Guest

November 15, 2010, 10:24:36 AM
 #234

http://www.bitcoin.me/images/btc.jpg

This just happened to my twitter feed.
JohnDoe
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 392
Merit: 250



View Profile
November 15, 2010, 11:01:41 AM
 #235

The bitcoin blogger article is on HN: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1905522
jimbobway
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1405
Merit: 1007



View Profile
November 15, 2010, 05:18:18 PM
 #236

http://www.bitcoin.me/images/btc.jpg

This just happened to my twitter feed.

This is great!  Thanks for posting that pic!
jimbobway
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1405
Merit: 1007



View Profile
November 15, 2010, 05:49:37 PM
 #237

The bitcoin blogger article is on HN: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1905522

Awesome.
Bruce Wagner
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 336
Merit: 250


View Profile
November 15, 2010, 05:56:18 PM
 #238

All I can say is:     "kiba, Hero Member"

Oh, and....  I'm calling my media contacts at PC World and such...

We'll see what happens.      Smiley
jimbobway
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1405
Merit: 1007



View Profile
November 15, 2010, 06:12:16 PM
 #239

All I can say is:     "kiba, Hero Member"

Oh, and....  I'm calling my media contacts at PC World and such...

We'll see what happens.      Smiley


Yes, thx kiba for starting this!
Anonymous
Guest

November 15, 2010, 11:55:10 PM
 #240

This just in....Bitcoin newscast!

http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/7682177/


 Cheesy

Thanks to jimbobway for writing the article.
jimbobway
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1405
Merit: 1007



View Profile
November 16, 2010, 02:01:18 AM
 #241

This just in....Bitcoin newscast!

http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/7682177/


 Cheesy

Thanks to jimbobway for writing the article.

LOL!  Very funny!!!  Grin
kiba
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 980
Merit: 1000


View Profile
November 16, 2010, 05:43:46 AM
 #242

Thanks for the media storm created by jimbobaway.

FreeMoney
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1246
Merit: 1001


Strength in numbers


View Profile WWW
November 16, 2010, 05:58:52 AM
 #243

Lol, I read the article earlier and it didn't strike me as overly ominous. But hearing it in that voice is scary! The first 30 seconds sound like a warning.

Play Bitcoin Poker at sealswithclubs.eu. We're active and open to everyone.
kiba
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 980
Merit: 1000


View Profile
November 16, 2010, 06:05:29 AM
 #244

And now I can claim that I started the longest thread on this forum, ever.

AND! I just extended it by one post longer with my declaration. Cheesy

socrates1024
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 125
Merit: 100


Andrew Miller


View Profile
March 03, 2011, 03:58:55 PM
 #245

Hey there everyone -
   I think it's time to follow up on this. I'm afraid that the EFF hasn't checked their mybitcoin.com account, and might not be aware that they've collected over 3000BTC, and that given the recent surge in popularity it's a considerable donation that they might want to redeem now. I wrote the following as a letter - I'm planning on publishing it on a blog or emailing it to the new EFF staff member who wrote recently about bitcoin. But it would be rude to take the thunder away from the original 'hero member' so I figured I'd run it by here first. What do you guys think?



"""
Hi Rainey,

   I'm a newcomer to bitcoin - I've been studying the community for just over a week. One of the first things that appealed to me was that EFF accepted bitcoin donations. I wondered how that came about - does the EFF endorse bitcoin? I set about researching this question using the bitcoin forum, the bitcoin block record itself, and questions directed at the IRC channel. I found out that the EFF started accepting bitcoin donations in August 2010 after several forum members collaborated on a letter and created a mybitcoin.com account to receive the donations. EFF was able to log into the mybitcoin.com account, and even created a Bitcoin Market account with the plan of withdrawing donations via paypal. However, it doesn't seem like there has been a follow up since October 2010. Although your blog post mentioning that EFF accepts bitcoin donations is more recent, it didn't describe in detail how the EFF receives the donations - so I wonder if you weren't aware of this story either.

   I was surprised to find out that the EFF bitcoin address has received 3,000 bitcoins in donations, which is arguably worth about $2,700 USD. A bulk of the donations occurred right away - no doubt from the forum members who drafted the letter - but smaller donations have continued to trickle in daily. Have the original contacts at EFF (Aaron or Mitchell) checked the account recently, or tried to convert the bitcoins back to cash through paypal as they planned? My guess is that no one has checked in a while! It seems to me that the underlying goal of the donation box was to encourage EFF to learn about the bitcoin technology by directly interacting with the community and having a stake in it.

  So, while you could 'cash out' by figuring out how to withdraw the bitcoins through paypal (if I'm right in guessing they're still in the mybitcoin account) - that would be missing out on some of the learning opportunity. You rightly noted in your blog post that an important distinction between bitcoin (a cryptocurrency) and services like paypal is that paypal has been known to freeze accounts (such as wikileaks). I'm sure EFF will have no problem pulling money from their paypal account, but bitcoins are especially useful when paypal isn't an option.


  For example, you could treat this as an experiment in withdrawing money anonymously. Bitcoin is a powerful tool for anonymous transactions, just as Tor is a powerful tool for anonymous speech. It's counterintuitive that bitcoin enables privacy since all the transactions are broadcast to the network! I was able to find out how many bitcoins were donated to EFF by reading the public bitcoin 'block chain'. However, once the bitcoins are passed through a relay (such as mybitcoin.com) the trail forks away. That's why I can't tell for sure if someone has already tried to use the donations! (Of course, mybitcoin.com might keep logs. And if you withdrew the exact balance at once (3 147.94btc) then it might be possible to connect the dots.) I'd like to pose the following as a challenge: route the bitcoins through several relays, split them into multiple addresses, and withdraw in small amounts, through several means, without identifying yourself as EFF. Besides services like coinpal that withdraw to a paypal account, there is a coin4cash website that will send you cash by mail, or you could get a prepaid VISA gift card from coincard. You can transfer to electronic exchangers like Liberty Reserve or moneybookers using www.mtgox.com, and a robot in #bitcoin-otc mediates an over-the-counter market for trades.  If this sounds like a dry run for laundering money, consider that it's the same quality that makes this a worthwhile 'liberation technology'. A lof of the fun of bitcoin technology is that it's very easy to write code for - this encourages diversity and innovation in the form of small web services. My favorite is an escrow at www.clearcoin.com, which has a default option to specify EFF as the recipient of the collateral bitcoins in case one of the parties reneges. I wonder if I can find out how many of the donated coins came from there. Keep in mind that the bitcoin economy is relatively small, and it's correct to say that the technology is in its infancy - so the people running these services that will help you 'cash out' are likely to be some of the same people who donated in the first place.

  If this is too sketchy for EFF, then I have a couple of other suggestions of things you can do with 3000 bitcoins that don't require converting to cash. Dissidents in an authoritarian country will probably have a hard time getting tangible goods; they'd probably get the most value by trading for virtual and information services, such as web hosting and web development - after all, the early adopters of bitcoin are technically savvy and many are open source developers. You could give the bitcoins to Tor or Tahoe-LFS to use as bugfix bounties. The Tor project could offer bitcoins as a reward for operating a relay - the relay operators could receive the reward while remaining anonymous!  If all else fails, there's a guy that will order you a pizza. Ultimately, trading bitcoins for cash is the part that's most uncertain - it's my hope that EFF will use its bitcoin donations to blaze some trails for other organizations to follow.
"""

amiller on freenode / 19G6VFcV1qZJxe3Swn28xz3F8gDKTznwEM
[my twitter] [research@umd]
I study Merkle trees, credit networks, and Byzantine Consensus algorithms.
mndrix
Michael Hendricks
VIP
Sr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 447
Merit: 250


View Profile
March 03, 2011, 04:51:20 PM
 #246

I'm afraid that the EFF hasn't checked their mybitcoin.com account, and might not be aware that they've collected over 3000BTC, and that given the recent surge in popularity it's a considerable donation that they might want to redeem now

It looks like EFF only has 0.25 BTC in that address at the moment (the the Balance column at the very bottom of the page).  Although they have received over 3000 BTC in the course of that address's history.  They seem to be spending the coins as soon as they receive them.
socrates1024
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 125
Merit: 100


Andrew Miller


View Profile
March 03, 2011, 05:03:12 PM
 #247

mndrix, the donations were sent to a mybitcoin.com account. We can't tell what's happened since then - but my guess is they haven't touched it. If kiba still has the keys to the account, maybe he could check on it for us. 

amiller on freenode / 19G6VFcV1qZJxe3Swn28xz3F8gDKTznwEM
[my twitter] [research@umd]
I study Merkle trees, credit networks, and Byzantine Consensus algorithms.
kiba
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 980
Merit: 1000


View Profile
March 03, 2011, 05:06:01 PM
 #248

mndrix, the donations were sent to a mybitcoin.com account. We can't tell what's happened since then - but my guess is they haven't touched it. If kiba still has the keys to the account, maybe he could check on it for us. 

Um, that would be unethical.

socrates1024
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 125
Merit: 100


Andrew Miller


View Profile
March 03, 2011, 05:14:58 PM
 #249

You're absolutely right! More reason EFF should check on it themselves.

amiller on freenode / 19G6VFcV1qZJxe3Swn28xz3F8gDKTznwEM
[my twitter] [research@umd]
I study Merkle trees, credit networks, and Byzantine Consensus algorithms.
Cryptoman
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 723
Merit: 500



View Profile
March 03, 2011, 05:15:58 PM
 #250

I don't know if this has made the rounds here yet, but here's a video of Rainey promoting Bitcoin, among other things.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ti5O3TI3iw


"A small body of determined spirits fired by an unquenchable faith in their mission can alter the course of history." --Gandhi
matonis
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 303
Merit: 250



View Profile WWW
March 03, 2011, 05:37:35 PM
 #251

The EFF is probably dumping their bitcoin on the market and that's what is keeping the price under $1.00 now.

Founding Director, Bitcoin Foundation
I also cover the bitcoin economy for Forbes, American Banker, PaymentsSource, and CoinDesk.
socrates1024
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 125
Merit: 100


Andrew Miller


View Profile
March 03, 2011, 05:38:26 PM
 #252

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ti5O3TI3iw#t=1m12s

From Rainey:

   "Bitcoin... a decentralized internet currency... it's shockingly simple to get bitcoin up and running on your computer."

amiller on freenode / 19G6VFcV1qZJxe3Swn28xz3F8gDKTznwEM
[my twitter] [research@umd]
I study Merkle trees, credit networks, and Byzantine Consensus algorithms.
ribuck
Donator
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 826
Merit: 1003


View Profile
March 03, 2011, 06:05:22 PM
 #253

I suggest to not hassle the EFF about this. I'm sure they have enough people who know about the bitcoins. The EFF staff have better things to do than to read, digest, and reply to long letters.

The video of Rainey mentioning Bitcoin is great!
socrates1024
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 125
Merit: 100


Andrew Miller


View Profile
March 03, 2011, 06:13:47 PM
 #254

ribuck, I nearly agree with you and this is one reason I went to the forum first.

However, don't you think the potential to redeem a $3,000 donation is worth their time?

amiller on freenode / 19G6VFcV1qZJxe3Swn28xz3F8gDKTznwEM
[my twitter] [research@umd]
I study Merkle trees, credit networks, and Byzantine Consensus algorithms.
LMGTFY
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 644
Merit: 500



View Profile
March 03, 2011, 06:18:08 PM
 #255

ribuck, I nearly agree with you and this is one reason I went to the forum first.

However, don't you think the potential to redeem a $3,000 donation is worth their time?

It looks like EFF only has 0.25 BTC in that address at the moment (the the Balance column at the very bottom of the page).  Although they have received over 3000 BTC in the course of that address's history.  They seem to be spending the coins as soon as they receive them.

This space intentionally left blank.
socrates1024
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 125
Merit: 100


Andrew Miller


View Profile
March 03, 2011, 06:24:10 PM
 #256

LMGTFY, the EFF donation address is associated with a mybitcoin.com account. All we can tell is that the coins have been collected by the wallet of mybitcoin.com. Unless EFF has been actively managing their bitcoins, they're still in the mybitcoin account.

The only way we could find out (besides logging into their account, which would be unethical) is to ask them!

amiller on freenode / 19G6VFcV1qZJxe3Swn28xz3F8gDKTznwEM
[my twitter] [research@umd]
I study Merkle trees, credit networks, and Byzantine Consensus algorithms.
ribuck
Donator
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 826
Merit: 1003


View Profile
March 03, 2011, 06:27:03 PM
 #257

However, don't you think the potential to redeem a $3,000 donation is worth their time?

There's no urgency to convert the bitcoins into fiat currency. It would be cooler if they wait until they want to buy something that can be paid for directly with bitcoins.
ribuck
Donator
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 826
Merit: 1003


View Profile
March 03, 2011, 06:31:21 PM
 #258

The EFF is a registered nonprofit, that publishes annual reports (although the latest I see at their website is for 2009). If will be interesting to see if/how they report their bitcoin donations.
LMGTFY
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 644
Merit: 500



View Profile
March 03, 2011, 06:32:42 PM
 #259

LMGTFY, the EFF donation address is associated with a mybitcoin.com account. All we can tell is that the coins have been collected by the wallet of mybitcoin.com. Unless EFF has been actively managing their bitcoins, they're still in the mybitcoin account.

The only way we could find out (besides logging into their account, which would be unethical) is to ask them!
So... they're receiving bitcoins at one address, they know how to transfer them to Mybitcoin, but we're assuming that they don't know that they then need to spend them? I agree with the posters above - it would be unethical to pry into their affairs. This seems like a classic case of "nothing to see here", a solution in search of a problem: it's like someone saying "I know you got paid a salary this month, but I'm concerned that once your wages were in your bank account you didn't know what to do with them. Can I peek into your bank account to check that you're spending your wages?" Hell, maybe the EFF want to save their bitcoins and spend them on something big? Is this really any of our business? EFF members have a right to find out, and I darer say they will in good time, when the EFF next release a report. But it really doesn't seem like it's any of our business.


This space intentionally left blank.
socrates1024
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 125
Merit: 100


Andrew Miller


View Profile
March 03, 2011, 06:51:16 PM
 #260

LMGTFY, it's not likely they are transferring the coins to mybitcoin themselves. The address is a mybitcoin.com address - it happens automatically.

My belief is that the motivation behind establishing a donation box for the EFF wasn't just to help them raise money, but as a way of introducing bitcoin to the EFF, with the hope that EFF will take the time to learn how bitcoin works and become an ally in advocating it to other organizations. If they find a way report it as donation income, for example, then that would set a precedent that the rest of us could follow. Like you said ribuck, EFF has better things to do then install some software and help us debug it. But, thanks to your donations, now they have a stake in it, and an incentive to play along!

It's none of our business what they do with it, but if it's the case that they're just sitting in the account because we haven't followed up on it, then I it's appropriate for us to let them know about the alternatives. It should be a learning opportunity, I'm pretty sure that was the whole point.


amiller on freenode / 19G6VFcV1qZJxe3Swn28xz3F8gDKTznwEM
[my twitter] [research@umd]
I study Merkle trees, credit networks, and Byzantine Consensus algorithms.
LMGTFY
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 644
Merit: 500



View Profile
March 03, 2011, 07:02:50 PM
 #261

LMGTFY, it's not likely they are transferring the coins to mybitcoin themselves. The address is a mybitcoin.com address - it happens automatically.

My belief is that the motivation behind establishing a donation box for the EFF wasn't just to help them raise money, but as a way of introducing bitcoin to the EFF, with the hope that EFF will take the time to learn how bitcoin works and become an ally in advocating it to other organizations. If they find a way report it as donation income, for example, then that would set a precedent that the rest of us could follow. Like you said ribuck, EFF has better things to do then install some software and help us debug it. But, thanks to your donations, now they have a stake in it, and an incentive to play along!

It's none of our business what they do with it, bu