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Author Topic: Australian coinjar.com to charge 10% GST on all AUD->Bitcoin sales  (Read 3740 times)
AaronCraig
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September 30, 2014, 10:24:09 AM
 #1

Here's what they wrote in their blog https://blog.coinjar.com/2014/09/30/how-the-new-ato-guidance-affects-coinjar-users/
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CIYAM
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September 30, 2014, 10:31:56 AM
 #2

Amazing that something that is neither a "good" nor a "service" attracts GST - you certainly can't imagine the Australian government getting away with applying this approach to "stocks" (I can understand GST applying to "fees and commissions" but not to the BTC itself).

With CIYAM anyone can create 100% generated C++ web applications in literally minutes.

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noviapriani
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September 30, 2014, 10:41:39 AM
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Amazing that something that is neither a "good" nor a "service" attracts GST - you certainly can't imagine the Australian government getting away with applying this approach to "stocks" (I can understand GST applying to "fees and commissions" but not to the BTC itself).


My gosh its sickening now that bitcoin became a tool for profit now, I guess making money its what is about then, right?

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September 30, 2014, 11:16:32 AM
 #4

This is some bullshit. In a sane world, GST would only be applied to the fees that Coinjar charges, not the entire amount. They're treating it as an everyday good and not a currency or even a commodity, and trying to shoehorn it into their existing rules on bartering which makes zero sense. This is going to kill (legitimate) Bitcoin adoption in Australia.
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September 30, 2014, 11:25:10 AM
 #5

interesting

pulled from
https://www.ato.gov.au/general/gen/tax-treatment-of-crypto-currencies-in-australia---specifically-bitcoin/

Generally, there will be no income tax or GST implications if you are not in business or carrying on an enterprise and you simply pay for goods or services in bitcoin (for example, acquiring personal goods or services on the internet using Bitcoin). Where you use bitcoin to purchase goods or services for personal use or consumption, any capital gain or loss from disposal of the bitcoin will be disregarded (as a personal use asset) provided the cost of the bitcoin is $10,000 or less.


10,000 or less or will tax your ass  Grin

seems good for me as a user.. for business I feel 10% GST is too high.
Australia should embrace bitcoin business.. it will generate jobs, if they tax too high jobs will go elsewhere.

 
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September 30, 2014, 11:32:37 AM
 #6

seems good for me as a user.. for business I feel 10% GST is too high.

What you're missing is that if you "buy your BTC in Aus then you will have to pay 10% GST for that" so from the point of just "using BTC as a currency" there is basically *zero* incentive to want to *buy BTC in Aus* unless you can actually *save more than 10%* on whatever you plan to *purchase with your BTC* (i.e. cheaper to just use a credit card and maybe even PayPal).

If you are a "investor" hoping for BTC to become "worth more" then perhaps the 10% "surcharge" is not a big deal (especially if you don't have to declare capital gains).

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coinut
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September 30, 2014, 11:42:06 AM
 #7

yes true but after initially freaking out over coinjars 10% fee I had a quick look at the exchange I use in Australia it states

"The primary business of BTC Markets is to provide an exchange platform for users to buy and sell Bitcoins off each other. BTC Markets does not buy nor sell Bitcoins in its own right therefore we are not liable to collect GST on the value of Bitcoins traded on our marketplace."

and

BTC Markets will soon be collecting GST on trading fees for Australian traders. Please be advised this is just on the trading fees and not on total trade value. Below is an example only of 1 Bitcoin traded with a value of $1000 and a trading fee of 1.1% inc GST.

Trading Fee: $10
GST:  $1
—————————
Total inc GST:  $11

so its slightly higher but I think its not too bad
arbitrage001
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September 30, 2014, 11:54:39 AM
 #8

Stated this a while ago:

When all rules and regulations are placed on bitcoin, it will be no different than fiat.
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September 30, 2014, 11:58:09 AM
 #9

"The primary business of BTC Markets is to provide an exchange platform for users to buy and sell Bitcoins off each other. BTC Markets does not buy nor sell Bitcoins in its own right therefore we are not liable to collect GST on the value of Bitcoins traded on our marketplace."

Hmm... well that is not so bad I guess (assuming the ATO agrees).

With CIYAM anyone can create 100% generated C++ web applications in literally minutes.

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gtraah
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September 30, 2014, 12:02:09 PM
 #10

HAHAHAHAHA, ATO You stupid STUPID fools.

ATO has just destroyed BTC purchases in australia.

I just purchased from Circle, I live in Sydney INSTANT with my Visa Debit. MUCH less spread. NO  GST. and INSTANT.


Coinjar is going to die


EVERYONE in AUS - You can now buy from circle, just add your Debit card and buy instantly

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Thylacine
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September 30, 2014, 12:25:14 PM
 #11

Whatever you may think of the ATO guidelines - CoinJar are certainly more pro-active than most for heeding the ATO advice and making business changes based on it. I think it adds some small legitimacy to bitcoin in Australia, even though most here don't like the taint of regulation.

Anyone care to comment on whether we can claim RITC on GST incurred on supply of bitcoin? I mean, it's basically a financial supply?

The ATO note is somewhat awesome for miners though;

Quote
Mining bitcoin
Where you are in the business of mining bitcoin, any income that you derive from the transfer of the mined bitcoin to a third party would be included in your assessable income. Any expenses incurred in respect to the mining activity would be allowed as a deduction. Losses you make from the mining activity may also be subject to the non-commercial loss provisions.

So you can claim hardware and electricity expenses as a deduction!? Totally going to claim the Block Erupters I bought on Gumtree last year...
Cryptobro
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September 30, 2014, 01:08:23 PM
 #12

What a shame, I only started using Coinjar a couple months ago and have found them terrific...and convenient!

Just made my last purchase from them unfortunately.
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September 30, 2014, 01:20:39 PM
 #13

GST LOL

Whats wrong with these people. First they get greedy and try and get in on the bitcoin sales, then they infest it with their stone age methods of finance and try and turn it into all other shitty centralized money.

They dont deserve any of it. Any tax charged on Bitcoins should go straight to the BTC foundation not some corrupted criminal organisation.

-1 respect

goose20
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September 30, 2014, 01:59:27 PM
 #14

What a shame, I only started using Coinjar a couple months ago and have found them terrific...and convenient!

Just made my last purchase from them unfortunately.


We do have until 3 October before 10% kicks in, but after that I too will no longer be using coinjar Sad

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September 30, 2014, 02:07:48 PM
 #15

HAHAHAHAHA, ATO You stupid STUPID fools.

ATO has just destroyed BTC purchases in australia.

I just purchased from Circle, I live in Sydney INSTANT with my Visa Debit. MUCH less spread. NO  GST. and INSTANT.


Coinjar is going to die


EVERYONE in AUS - You can now buy from circle, just add your Debit card and buy instantly

How did you manage that?

I get 'at this time we are unable to link accounts from your country'.

RappingSniper
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October 01, 2014, 08:17:05 AM
 #16

This is some bullshit. In a sane world, GST would only be applied to the fees that Coinjar charges, not the entire amount. They're treating it as an everyday good and not a currency or even a commodity, and trying to shoehorn it into their existing rules on bartering which makes zero sense. This is going to kill (legitimate) Bitcoin adoption in Australia.

Can't agree more, I'm flabbergasted by how small-minded the ATO's guidence is. Cutting off one's nose to spite their face describes it pretty well though. And most importantly, this punishes legitimate outfits like Coinjar and actually incentivises under the counter sales, so this will actually encourage tax evasion ffs! All they've tried to do is hammer a square peg into a round hole, regardless of how much it will hurt not just Bitcoin, but themselves in the process.
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October 01, 2014, 08:45:12 AM
 #17

This is some bullshit. In a sane world, GST would only be applied to the fees that Coinjar charges, not the entire amount. They're treating it as an everyday good and not a currency or even a commodity, and trying to shoehorn it into their existing rules on bartering which makes zero sense. This is going to kill (legitimate) Bitcoin adoption in Australia.

Can't agree more, I'm flabbergasted by how small-minded the ATO's guidence is. Cutting off one's nose to spite their face describes it pretty well though. And most importantly, this punishes legitimate outfits like Coinjar and actually incentivises under the counter sales, so this will actually encourage tax evasion ffs! All they've tried to do is hammer a square peg into a round hole, regardless of how much it will hurt not just Bitcoin, but themselves in the process.

Bitcoin won't get hurt though, blocks will continue to get mined and the blockchain will grow. It doesn't care.
If you mean in terms of value, the price will just skyrocket in Australia. Prohibition of any kind will just make it more valuable.
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October 01, 2014, 09:18:20 AM
 #18

Farewell, CoinJar. It was good while it lasted.
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October 01, 2014, 11:05:40 PM
 #19

sayonara Coinjar!!!

made my last purchase today... $250 for 0.5 BTC , GST is applied $21 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

To the Moon XEM !!!!!!!!!!!
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October 02, 2014, 12:05:34 AM
 #20

so what's everyone's advice on how we can buy Bitcoin here in Australia?

not Circle, unless you have a US based credit card or a bank account...

thanks.

To the Moon XEM !!!!!!!!!!!
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