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Author Topic: Why consumers are not adopting BTC  (Read 6678 times)
Enfield
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September 30, 2014, 03:15:46 PM
 #21

In beginning of 2015 see where btc is and you will say wow he must be Warren Buffet a trolling fudster.

Fixed. You've got a lot of ramble I'll give you that though.
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September 30, 2014, 03:16:09 PM
 #22

Let's talk pure simple facts.
One easy small transaction over the weekend took almost 5 minutes to get the first confirmation. I repeat again 1st confirmation. I have to convince the seller to look at the blockchain and the red button is still there.

And when i say simplicity i really mean it. Not going through circle service.

Also part of the world from where i come from we have something call 'instant' internet bank transaction. 3-4 day is overhyped.  Roll Eyes

again your waiting for confirms. if the amount was small.. why wait.. if the amount was $50+ then yea wait 1 confirm. if it was $1000 then wait a couple confirms.

put simply if you handed over in a retail store
$10, the cashier wouldnt look twice at it
$50 the cashier would atleast check for water marks
$1000 the cashier would ask a colleague to help double count the amount and then get the manager to put the bank notes into a safe. thus customers wait around for a while.

same with bitcoin.

but as i said there are wallets around that allow "instant" spend. again think about it like your main hoard is in a safety deposit box for long term storage. and then you have a small wallet in your pocket for instant daily spend amounts.

I don't understand why simplicity doesn't get into mainstream.
If making 1000 bucks tx then by all means use credit card. If u don't own 1, then use debit card.

The discussion here is why consumer is not using bitcoin. The consumers can be anybody and i take the over the supermarket counter as an example. Personally i won't use btc there. Obviously far better payment options and btc confirmation time, that would be the last option ReGardless of the payment size which you have been harping on till now  Roll Eyes

And wallets with 'instant' spend still needs at least 1 confirmation. Read back my earlier post on the 1st confirmation time. Basically 5 mins is unacceptable

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September 30, 2014, 03:20:27 PM
 #23

1anonymous is just trolling.

such a shame he does not realise that i can buy a house with bitcoin, i can book and pay for a vacation in bitcoin, i can buy a mcLaren or lamborghini for bitcoin, groceries, rent, fast food, toiletries for bitcoin. Electric/gas/utilities, car fuel, electronics/gadgets, furniture, even women for bitcoin...

oh well lets leave him to sulk and stick with his beloved FIAT

infact lets name it now
tell me one product that can easily be measured as a marker for todays FIAT.

i personally would use bread/milk/can of baked beans.
in the US bread is $2-$2.50 a loaf

so lets say $2.50

10 loaves of bread=$25 today (0.066btc AMLKYC crappy exchanges / 0.05btc otc-localbitcoins)
1anonymous please bookmark 'watch' this post and come back to me in 12 months (last day of september 2015) and tell me how many loaves of bread you can buy with $25, and we can see how much bread you can get with 0.05-0.066btc at that same day

see you then!!! bye

I DO NOT TRADE OR ACT AS ESCROW ON THIS FORUM EVER.
Don't take any information given on this forum on face value. Please do your own due diligence & respect what is written here as both opinion & information gleaned from experience. If you wish to seek legal FACTUAL advice, then seek the guidance of a LEGAL specialist.
1anonymous
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September 30, 2014, 03:25:46 PM
 #24

This is how the net works, a consumer gets an email or a message from a 'friend', I'm now using whatever (twitter, ebay, FB, google, etc), consumer goes to site and usually 'adopts' the new whatever, the growth is 'viral' in that quickly the 'project' gains mass adoption and market share.

Now look at btc, when SR was a new 'viral' type of platform, the word spread, you need btc to participage, hence a 'reason' for a 'consumer' of SR products (drugs) to 'acquire' btc.

Now you have 'mass adoption' to some extent of btc by mass retailers (Overstock and Expedia etc), and what have consumers done? Yawn, why should they acquire btc when they can just use a CC?

So retail adoption was a failure so value dumped from 1100 end of 2013 to 300's today and my OPinion is it will be under 200 by the end of 2014.

That's 3 months.

Without a mass appeal reason for global CONsumers to acquire btc it will be under 200 by end of 2014, that's less than 100 days.

It's my OPinion and yes, if you have old btc, buy a 72K mile jag with it if you're in SFL, I'll gladly take btc and immediately turn it into fiat.

If you believe in btc as an investment, then buy one of the many brandable domains we have that are for sale too.

My OPinion is btc is going to 30 bucks soon and under 200 by end of 2014.

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September 30, 2014, 03:30:42 PM
 #25

1anonymous is just trolling.

such a shame he does not realise that i can buy a house with bitcoin, i can book and pay for a vacation in bitcoin, i can buy a mcLaren or lamborghini for bitcoin, groceries, rent, fast food, toiletries for bitcoin. Electric/gas/utilities, car fuel, electronics/gadgets, furniture, even women for bitcoin...

oh well lets leave him to sulk and stick with his beloved FIAT

infact lets name it now
tell me one product that can easily be measured as a marker for todays FIAT.

i personally would use bread/milk/can of baked beans.
in the US bread is $2-$2.50 a loaf

so lets say $2.50

10 loaves of bread=$25 today (0.066btc AMLKYC crappy exchanges / 0.05btc otc-localbitcoins)
1anonymous please bookmark 'watch' this post and come back to me in 12 months (last day of september 2015) and tell me how many loaves of bread you can buy with $25, and we can see how much bread you can get with 0.05-0.066btc at that same day

see you then!!! bye



End of 2013 btc value 1100 range

End of 2014 btc value under 200 my OPinion

End of 2015 btc value 30 or 3 bucks

My OPinion is based on recent historical value of bitcoin and the FACT there is not one legitimate reason for any CONsumer to acquire it to SPEND

btc has no spec value, the 9 month slide of btc shows that

You can buy a house with anything, you can trade a work of art or a stash of rare coins for a house

Now why should a consumer acquire btc to buy anything?

So what you can buy a car or house or whatever with btc, give me a reason to acquire it, the same car or house can be bought with fiat or anything of value, now show me one valid reason to acquire btc to buy a house or car? There is none, since the person selling a such items would prefer cash or a bank check.

Consumer 'trust' in any currency is why a consumer has fiat or any item of value including any commodity or whatever has value to a consumer.

The is no legitimate reason for any CONsumer to ever 'acquire' btc to buy anything.

The spec bubble of btc is over and the slide in value shows that is now FACT.

All the new retailers adopting btc just puts more pressure on the downward slide of btc since the retailers all convert btc to what they trust which is fiat.

Btc is not fiat, fiat has governmental regulations which the average CONSumer equates into a trust fiat belief.

I trust assets and to me btc is not an asset due to the huge slide in value post Silk Road and adoption by retailers that show btc has no real value.

End of 2014 btc under 200, my OPinion and it will be easy to see who is right in 100 days.

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September 30, 2014, 03:35:55 PM
 #26




End of 2013 btc value 1100 range

End of 2014 btc value under 200 my OPinion

End of 2015 btc value 30 or 3 bucks

My OPinion is based on recent historical value of bitcoin and the FACT there is not one legitimate reason for any CONsumer to acquire it to SPEND


Your opinion based on what exactly? Nothing. I'll bookmark this post and see if you're right at the end of 2015. Maybe you will, but only time will tell.
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September 30, 2014, 03:39:06 PM
 #27

End of 2013 btc value 1100 range

End of 2014 btc value under 200 my OPinion

End of 2015 btc value 30 or 3 bucks

My OPinion is based on recent historical value of bitcoin and the FACT there is not one legitimate reason for any CONsumer to acquire it to SPEND

btc has no spec value, the 9 month slide of btc shows that



FACT:

september 29th 2012 - $12
september 29th 2013 - $125
september 29th 2014 - $380
sepember 29th 2015 - <future reminder to insert value>

oh by the way.. "1anonymous".. i know your the "sol adoni" fudster.. so cut the crap out already, every bit of your fud has been disproven no matter how many names you made

I DO NOT TRADE OR ACT AS ESCROW ON THIS FORUM EVER.
Don't take any information given on this forum on face value. Please do your own due diligence & respect what is written here as both opinion & information gleaned from experience. If you wish to seek legal FACTUAL advice, then seek the guidance of a LEGAL specialist.
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September 30, 2014, 03:40:29 PM
 #28

1anonymous is just trolling.

such a shame he does not realise that i can buy a house with bitcoin, i can book and pay for a vacation in bitcoin, i can buy a mcLaren or lamborghini for bitcoin, groceries, rent, fast food, toiletries for bitcoin. Electric/gas/utilities, car fuel, electronics/gadgets, furniture, even women for bitcoin...

oh well lets leave him to sulk and stick with his beloved FIAT

infact lets name it now
tell me one product that can easily be measured as a marker for todays FIAT.

i personally would use bread/milk/can of baked beans.
in the US bread is $2-$2.50 a loaf

so lets say $2.50

10 loaves of bread=$25 today (0.066btc AMLKYC crappy exchanges / 0.05btc otc-localbitcoins)
1anonymous please bookmark 'watch' this post and come back to me in 12 months (last day of september 2015) and tell me how many loaves of bread you can buy with $25, and we can see how much bread you can get with 0.05-0.066btc at that same day

see you then!!! bye



End of 2013 btc value 1100 range

End of 2014 btc value under 200 my OPinion

End of 2015 btc value 30 or 3 bucks

My OPinion is based on recent historical value of bitcoin and the FACT there is not one legitimate reason for any CONsumer to acquire it to SPEND

btc has no spec value, the 9 month slide of btc shows that




if you compare beginning of year instead of end of year i will listen to you... 2014 isnt over yet

"...I suspect we need a better incentive for users to run nodes instead of relying solely on altruism...",  satoshi@vistomail.com
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September 30, 2014, 03:51:29 PM
 #29

It's obvious not one person has offered any legitimate reason why 1 of 8 Billion consumers should acquire btc to consume anything today.

End of 2013 1100 btc
End of 2014 btc under 200

That will be the future of btc in my OPinion

Bitcoin will never become a real currency, there is no real world reason for any consumer to acquire btc.

NONE

The 9 month slide of btc shows btc has no value as an 'investment'.

So what some retailers decided to take it and convert it immediately into fiat

What need does any CONsumer have to acquire it?

NONE

The slide is not stopping, all the good news of more retailers has done nothing to stop the value slide so investors won't for the most part won't touch it.

If you have any large position in btc, dump it, IMO, in 100 days when btc is under 200 bucks, you would be happy you took the advice.

Now unless someone can post a legitimate reason as to why any CONsumer must have btc to CONsume anything, state it.

There is no real legitimate reason for a CONsumer to acquire it.

If you want to 'invest' in btc, then invest in it.

When the slide continues to under 200 btc by end of 2014 you will see I was right.

Until then, offer this thread one legitimate reason for a CONsumer to ACQUIRE btc

There is none.

Only bad speculation advice is being offered.

No consumer need means no reason to acquire it.

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September 30, 2014, 04:01:24 PM
 #30

It's obvious not one person has offered any legitimate reason why 1 of 8 Billion consumers should acquire btc to consume anything today.

I believe that the next widespread use of Bitcoin will be for sports betting on the internet.  That will produce a broader user base, more press coverage, and a higher price.

The sports betting is already taking place.  The speed, lower cost, and relative anonymity of using Bitcoins for it will be made obvious soon.  Like SR, only with even more appeal to the public.



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September 30, 2014, 04:04:28 PM
 #31

sol adoni.. (aka 1anonymous)

as an american paying for things in $$$ is there any reason you can think of to today, go through the hassle of buying euro's and then go to overstock or any website to buy anything that is then used in your american lifestyle.. that you cant do with dollars...

so are you saying that euro's are obsolete??

or flipping it around

as an european paying for things in euros is there any reason you can think of to today, go through the hassle of buying dollars and then go to overstock or any website to buy anything that is then used in your european lifestyle.. that you cant do with euro's...

so are you saying that dollars are obsolete??

I DO NOT TRADE OR ACT AS ESCROW ON THIS FORUM EVER.
Don't take any information given on this forum on face value. Please do your own due diligence & respect what is written here as both opinion & information gleaned from experience. If you wish to seek legal FACTUAL advice, then seek the guidance of a LEGAL specialist.
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September 30, 2014, 04:18:00 PM
 #32

Let's talk pure simple facts.
One easy small transaction over the weekend took almost 5 minutes to get the first confirmation. I repeat again 1st confirmation. I have to convince the seller to look at the blockchain and the red button is still there.

And when i say simplicity i really mean it. Not going through circle service.

Also part of the world from where i come from we have something call 'instant' internet bank transaction. 3-4 day is overhyped.  Roll Eyes

again your waiting for confirms. if the amount was small.. why wait.. if the amount was $50+ then yea wait 1 confirm. if it was $1000 then wait a couple confirms.

put simply if you handed over in a retail store
$10, the cashier wouldnt look twice at it
$50 the cashier would atleast check for water marks
$1000 the cashier would ask a colleague to help double count the amount and then get the manager to put the bank notes into a safe. thus customers wait around for a while.

same with bitcoin.

but as i said there are wallets around that allow "instant" spend. again think about it like your main hoard is in a safety deposit box for long term storage. and then you have a small wallet in your pocket for instant daily spend amounts.

Franky what world do you live in? If I pay with $1,000 in cash in a retail store, I'm waiting no more than 15-20 seconds for the cashier to check the bills before I'm on my way. Nobodys going to want to sit and wait 30 minutes for their $1,000 transaction to hit multiple confirmations.
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September 30, 2014, 04:28:23 PM
 #33

It's obvious not one person has offered any legitimate reason why 1 of 8 Billion consumers should acquire btc to consume anything today.

I believe that the next widespread use of Bitcoin will be for sports betting on the internet.  That will produce a broader user base, more press coverage, and a higher price.

The sports betting is already taking place.  The speed, lower cost, and relative anonymity of using Bitcoins for it will be made obvious soon.  Like SR, only with even more appeal to the public.


Sports betting can be a major Bitcoin tipping point, TippingPoint.
Thanks for the reminder, I don't usually bet on sports, but might try it with BTC.  Smiley

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September 30, 2014, 04:33:44 PM
 #34

i and many others are doing healthy trades at $500+ by simply ignoring those crappy exchange valued and their price rigging. we trade privately, and we have seen volume rises and alot of adoption personally, and also in the news

What do you mean you are doing $500+ trades? You pay $500 for a bitcoin while you can buy it for $360? Or you know idiots that are paying $500 for something that worths 360? What part of it is healthy?
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September 30, 2014, 04:35:59 PM
 #35

It's obvious not one person has offered any legitimate reason why 1 of 8 Billion consumers should acquire btc to consume anything today.

I believe that the next widespread use of Bitcoin will be for sports betting on the internet.  That will produce a broader user base, more press coverage, and a higher price.

The sports betting is already taking place.  The speed, lower cost, and relative anonymity of using Bitcoins for it will be made obvious soon.  Like SR, only with even more appeal to the public.





The gambling industry will benefit greatly from btc, as will the remittance market and for anyone else sending money around the world.
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September 30, 2014, 04:43:12 PM
 #36

i and many others are doing healthy trades at $500+ by simply ignoring those crappy exchange valued and their price rigging. we trade privately, and we have seen volume rises and alot of adoption personally, and also in the news

What do you mean you are doing $500+ trades? You pay $500 for a bitcoin while you can buy it for $360? Or you know idiots that are paying $500 for something that worths 360? What part of it is healthy?

The current exchanges are good for small to moderate amounts of money.
After the Gox crimes, some people will gladly pay a premium price to avoid sending money to possibly dangerous exchanges.

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September 30, 2014, 05:05:15 PM
 #37

At this stage in BTC there is a serious problem with consumer adoption of BTC.

If you look at the growth charts, the past was fueled by consumer adoption for silk road IMO.

If you wanted to buy on SR you had to convert fiat into btc.

Then silk road got busted, the news about it fueled some spec money and also gave enough press to make some merchants accept it.

Now here we are almost a year later on what should be a viral growth opportunity and BTC value is going the wrong way since high at end of 2013.

Look at btc with a blank mind, you have zero knowledge of the coin, you go to Overstock, you buy something, you see visa/mc/ax and paypal then you see bitcoin

Remember you have a blank mind, you maybe heard of it in the news and silk road or investors loosing their btc

Now name one reason for any 'average consumer' that gets a check weekly or twice a month, to say to themselves, hmmm, bitcoin, what is that, why do I need bitcoin to pay Overstock for my purchase?

Remember this is average joe blow consumer who is broke, he/shee lives off CREDIT CARDS, they have no real savings nor stocks, they get a minor wage from a faceless corp and every penny is accounted for by the gov they live in jurisdiction of.

That's the average nobody on the net, average broke a$$ nobody with a nothing job and no real money.

Now before SR got busted, what fueled the 'consumer' growth was here is where you can buy your drugs ON LINE, oh you need btc.

So that bought into btc a lot of people with money to acquire btc for one reason, joe consumer on SR had to acquire btc to play the game on SR.

Feds bust SR and news goes out and you have some spec money thrown into the mix, then you have some big companies say let's take this and turn it into fiat, more spec money comes in, but what item is now you must have btc to buy it? Nothing

 Just follow the stock reports from Overstock, they mention btc, and they mention how bad it is, less than 1% of sales, that is NOTHING, not even a reason for a retailer to retool and take it.

So step away from 'your knowledge' about btc, put yourself into the mind of joe blow nobody broke a$$ consumer, give that person one easily understood reason why they need to jump through all the hoops of BUYING btc.

No compelling reason for a consumer to buy btc to then buy stuff, no reason for btc price to keep rising, that's why December 2013 it was 1100 btc and now it's in the 300's.

The appeal of 'anonymous' transactions do not apply to joe blow average consumer, the reason, they have no secrets, they go to a job the gov knows they have, they get a wage deposited into their petty bank account the gov knows they have, that is their life, they are typical broke wage earners. Most of them can't afford a drug habit, the broke people with drug habits end up being forced to become criminals to afford their drug habits, the elite professionals who have drug habits aren't an elite professional for long, they burn out fast.

Silk Road IMO fueled btc acceptance by a very small segment of society and today when a big merchant puts up a shingle like Overstock and says we take btc, so what, less than 1% of their sales are btc, it's in their stock reports they must file.

All the bs btc propaganda that every bitbot spews about why you must have btc is bs to THE AVERAGE CONSUMER.

Oh, fiat is worthless, so is btc, everything is, unless enough people agree fiat, gold, silver or btc have a value and trade with it, otherwise everything has no value.

Oh, your gov is about to crash and burn, yeah we hear that all the time

Oh, you gov knows everything you do, don't you want anonymous money, why the person is a broke wage earner and the gov knows every penny they have

Oh, your trans is secure, really assuming they have a brain and don't have a million viruses on their computer or phone

Oh, it's a great investment, really 1100 bucks 9 months and now it's in the 300's what drug are YOU ON

How many big retailers have to put up bitcoin signs here and sell almost nothing via btc before you all understand, if bitcoin wallets are not filled with btc on mega-millions of users laptops, having merchants take bitcoin means nothing, you need a legion of consumers with bitcoin money ready to buy and these consumers are usually broke and need credit cards to buy stuff.

SR didn't offer drugs for credit card transactions they offered btc trades, so that fueled consumers buying btc

I would call the Overstock adoption of bitcoin now a proven FAILURE, they got in near the high of 1100 bucks and now its in the 300's.

So merchant adoption has moved the value of btc backwards if anything.

You need consumers to acquire btc and then you need consumers buying stuff with it for btc to become a 'currency'.

Right now btc is only a spec investment IMO, and that investment has lost 70% of its value since it peaked end of 2013.

Go ahead cry well the 'history of btc is long term growth', can you say BULL SH*T

There is no long term history of bitcoin, the history of bitcoin was it was fueled by silk road, when silk road crashed and burned, the media ran with bitcoin stories for a while and it fuled some minor spec money

Now that spec money lost 70% of what they put into bitcoin end of 2013

There is simply no great need for any consumer to acquire btc and then to use it

Some people buy today and think btc is an investment, that means they don't spend it, that means it's not a currency

Now to me, the 'idea' of btc has appeal, but I'm not a broke a$$ wage earner, I'm more of what they call the .1% the cream of the 1%.

So I own btc, I have companies I control that take it, it does NOTHING in the real world, people press pay with credit card or paypal, they have no bitcoin to use and if they did they look at it as a commodity like gold you save it, that means btc is not a currency.

Now before you all cast some stones, who am I?

Here's my phone log from this morning

Curator of Smithsonian called
Curator of British Museum called
Spoke to the CEO of one of the top 5 publishing houses in the world
Spoke to senior partner at a major lawfirm
Spoke to editor of a major news org

So I guess my opinion and my words don't mean that much.

Now sell the average consumer one real reason they need to go out and try to acquire bitcoin and then consume goods with it.

If you can't do that, YOU HAVE NO CURRENCY as to btc.





I think there are a lot of valid concerns here, but I'd like to point out a few things:

1) Overstock has seen not-insignificant sales numbers in BTC tallying in the millions of dollars.  For merchants, the price at when they "got in" to BTC or began accepting it is irrelevant since payment processors convert BTC to fiat in real-time.  To this extent, BTC has been successful.  A not-insignificant number of people *are* using BTC to purchase goods and services from large retailers, and Overstock is evidence of this.

2) Consumers have an incentive to use BTC if merchants provide such incentives.  Payment processors like BitPay, who only take a 1% processing fee, enable merchants to reduce their prices for consumers, therefore leading to more sales.  Given that the profit margin of the average company is generally between 5-10%, an extra 1-2% is an *enormous* difference.   As infrastructure continues to develop and streamline transactions, these incentives should become more apparent.

3) Your phone log has nothing to do with any of this.

However, I do agree the average person couldn't care less about anonymity, and for most people a 1-2% difference isn't enough of an incentive to prompt them into researching and acquiring BTC.  Intellectual and logistical barriers to entry are very real.  Although, on the other hand, there is certainly something to be said about the fact that large companies continue to incorporate BTC into their business models, and investors continue to funnel countless millions into infrastructure development.

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September 30, 2014, 05:46:46 PM
 #38

OP

Why don't you cite some charts, stats, information about all of your 'thoughts'.  Otherwise you are just rambling. 
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September 30, 2014, 06:16:21 PM
 #39

Trolling or not the OP does raise some valid points about retail consumer adoption.

Currently they is no tangible benefit  for retail consumers to adopt bitcoin. Not cost benefit(bitcoin isn't really cheaper), time saving( transaction confirmation ) time nor is it hassle free( still not quite user friendly).
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September 30, 2014, 06:17:45 PM
 #40

You don't get it, retail is fueled by consumers buying with currency they don't have, credit cards.

PEOPLE ARE BROKE 99% are.
Correction, Americans are broke. The corporations have moved their factories overseas, and with it they've taken most of the jobs supporting our once thriving middle class.

In the next phase, they will take the services industry. This has already begun, and the problem will be exacerbated by mass-automation, meaning robotics - take a look at what Google has been buying (spoiler: over a dozen robotics firms).

What America is experiencing is a process referred academically as "economic inversion". It's America shifting from a first world country to... god knows what kind of hellhole America will be when every major metropolis goes the way of Detroit...

Remember Aaron Swartz, a 26 year old computer scientist who died defending the free flow of information.
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