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Author Topic: How can the consumer save money?  (Read 2651 times)
Willisius
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October 03, 2014, 12:41:58 AM
 #41

To buy btc on circle.com you need to pay the bank fees. You can then use that btc to buy goods. The merchant wont pay fees but the consumer will. In a way, it's a longer route to the same price. So how can such systems make things cheaper for consumers?

I know that we are hoping for a time when btc will replace fiat, but for now that isn't happening. Customers need incentives and that incentive would be lower prices.

if your american no one on earth will tell you to go buy some euro's simply because your local store as started accepting euro's along side dollar.. and then to go spend your euro's.

no one on earth will demand the retailer to give discounts to try and tempt people to buy euros either!!

YOUR MISSING THE POINT OF BITCOIN

its not about going from fiat to bitcoin to then instantly spend.

please go research what bitcoins benefits really are

I know what you are referring to but I am not the average dude in the street who we are trying to get into bitcoin. They NEED INCENTIVES. No ideology is going to make them want to get into BTC. No scaremongering about inflation and debt will convince them. I think bitcoin is a great idea as a world currency but the average broke guy wants incentives. He wants discounts. Right now the ONLY incentive is international money transfer. That is all we have and that is for very few people.

Leave the average dude on the street alone. What makes Bitcoin look like a scam to him is the fact that you want to shove it down his throat. If the average dude on the street doesn't want BTC, leave him be. It's not for everybody.
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October 03, 2014, 12:42:17 AM
 #42


a) Help people convince their employers to begin paying them in BTC, and ensure streamlined processes are in place to do so.

b) Show people where they can spend their BTC, and also help them convince merchants in their area (provide promo materials, etc.) to accept BTC.  Help them to convince their landlord to accept BTC, etc.

Once people are getting paid in BTC, and paying say 30%+ of their living expenses in BTC meaning no tax on that money, they will generally have a good 20%+ more money (depending on country), which is more than enough incentive for most people.


+1  your getting the idea
not to mention that the growth of bitcoin(populatrity and deflationary) means this weeks 150 loaf of bread wage means that when paid in bitcoin will get you more then 150 loaves of bread later, without the merchant discounting a dime, purely because bitcoin in itself is worth more.

even while people are crying that bitcoin is low now.. my 2013 bitcoin wage (yes i get paid in bitcoins) buys me atleast 3 times more stuff now than it would have last year thus discounting my purchases is not needed. and this years wage (doing the maths while i write this) is also not in bad shape either.

yes i am living off bitcoin and i am not worried about hunger or losing the roof off my head, and it has nothing to do with having enough bitcoins to compensate for volatility.

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Please do your own research & respect what is written here as both opinion & information gleaned from experience. many people replying with insults but no on-topic content substance, automatically are 'facepalmed' and yawned at
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October 03, 2014, 12:54:21 AM
 #43

I recently purchased a VPN service using Bitcoin and they gave me a very nice discount that would have more than covered any costs associated with procuring the BTC.

Imagine if Amazon starts accepting Bitcoin and offers a mere 10% discount  Smiley

Those discounts are promotions. They are for publicity and to get people to use bitcoin on the sites. They are not permanent discounts which come about from accepting bitcoin. The merchant will save about 3% from card fees but the customer will pay that to buy the btc.
Merchants generally will need to pay ~3% to accept a credit card transaction, however this is not their only cost associated with accepting a credit card. Anytime that a merchant ships/delivers a product and later faces a chargeback claim, will have costs fighting the chargeback regardless if it is successful or not. If the transaction is actually chargedback then they will have provided a good/service and received nothing in return.

Also who is to say that a merchant wouldn't offer a similar discount to what it costs them in CC fees? Even a 3% discount would likely be sought after by consumers as few people are willing to pass up a deal when they otherwise would be purchasing something
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October 03, 2014, 02:00:22 AM
 #44

Merchants can lower prices since they don't have to pay credit card fees and are not exposed to chargeback fraud.

Merchants don't offer discounts for cash payments, which is just as safe.  Smiley
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October 03, 2014, 02:21:18 AM
 #45

The OP is on point... it's great that there are reasons for using btc... still the real issue is we're not reaching the mass with the message... or enough value to change their ways.
IMO the marketing side is seriously lacking... the average Joe believes it's a scam or see no reason to make the effort to buy in.
How many mainstream rags have any kind of ads... today we see more about the downside than positive reasons to endorse it... put yourself in the position of folks that are clueless about bitcoin... and I'm not talking about tech savvy individuals... there needs to be a joint effort by all members to invest in advertising ( invest in the future)... I'm thinking some type of incentive program where it's not all "pay to promote" but a program that will give back to the community on a random basis.. ie. drawings, lotto, reward for best idea etc... we don't all read forbes and bloomberg
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October 03, 2014, 05:12:22 AM
 #46

Maybe invest it on something? Or loan it? Hmmmm....
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October 03, 2014, 05:29:48 AM
 #47

Merchants can lower prices since they don't have to pay credit card fees and are not exposed to chargeback fraud.

Merchants don't offer discounts for cash payments, which is just as safe.  Smiley

It depends.

At APMEX, the cash price for a 1 oz gold eagle is $1,276.19, while the price using a credit card is $1,320.86 (3.5% more).

However,

Quote
The Dodd-Frank law prohibits a payment card network such as Visa "from inhibiting the ability of anyone to provide a discount for payment by cash, checks, debit cards, or credit cards," Katz [a spokesman for the Federal Trade Commission] said. However, he added, some states prohibit charging an extra fee for using a credit card.


Buy bitcoins with cash from somebody near you: LocalBitcoins
Buy stuff on Amazon at a discount with bitcoins or convert Amazon points to bitcoins: Purse.io
Join an anti-signature campaign: DannyHamilton's ignore list
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October 03, 2014, 02:36:35 PM
 #48

The OP is on point... it's great that there are reasons for using btc... still the real issue is we're not reaching the mass with the message... or enough value to change their ways.
IMO the marketing side is seriously lacking... the average Joe believes it's a scam or see no reason to make the effort to buy in.
How many mainstream rags have any kind of ads... today we see more about the downside than positive reasons to endorse it... put yourself in the position of folks that are clueless about bitcoin... and I'm not talking about tech savvy individuals... there needs to be a joint effort by all members to invest in advertising ( invest in the future)... I'm thinking some type of incentive program where it's not all "pay to promote" but a program that will give back to the community on a random basis.. ie. drawings, lotto, reward for best idea etc... we don't all read forbes and bloomberg


the reason average joe is not adopting by their millions, is because bitcoin is still in innovation stage, thus not ready for mass adoption.

so advertising bitcoin as purely a "discount payment method" will make people view it as more of a scam than ever.

stop thinking of the 3month plan of quick spikes to make profit.
forget the price,
dont even worry about the price.
IGNORE THE PRICE!!!!
get the price out of your head,
pretend the price is an object.... now throw it away.
pretend the price is a liquid, now pour it down the drain.

now, i hope by the point you are reading this your mind is now open.
think about bitcoin from the infrastructure point. the physical, social and usability of bitcoin.

once you people see the benefits from the possible future bitcoin infrastructure, you will see what bitcoin is about and see what you should really be talking to the masses about.

now thats been said, realise we are still in the innovator stage and that the mass adoption WILL happen. but we shouldnt push people to run towards bitcoin until all the paths are lined up to ensure people dont get lost.

I DO NOT TRADE OR ACT AS ESCROW ON THIS FORUM EVER.
Please do your own research & respect what is written here as both opinion & information gleaned from experience. many people replying with insults but no on-topic content substance, automatically are 'facepalmed' and yawned at
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October 03, 2014, 02:45:23 PM
 #49

There is a very long list of incentives. What were you expecting us to say? Bitcoin will magically make everything 30% cheaper? Come on....

If what you are buying is on Amazon it's 33% cheaper.

Average Joe can stick with his fiat. We have what we need now, price does not matter. Quit worrying about average Joe.

First seastead company actually selling seasteads: Ocean Builders https://ocean.builders  Of course we accept bitcoin.
Seastead talk at http://seasteadtalk.org
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October 03, 2014, 02:47:11 PM
 #50

Merchants can lower prices since they don't have to pay credit card fees and are not exposed to chargeback fraud.

Merchants don't offer discounts for cash payments, which is just as safe.  Smiley

When I ran my own business I gave a 5% discount for cash payments.

First seastead company actually selling seasteads: Ocean Builders https://ocean.builders  Of course we accept bitcoin.
Seastead talk at http://seasteadtalk.org
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October 03, 2014, 06:40:58 PM
 #51

Is there any other member here who can tell me a decent reason why the average consumer will adopt bitcoin? Imagine if all the infrastructure is in place and all the merchants accept bitcoin - why then will the consumer adopt it if there is no incentive?

again bitcoins use is NOT meant to simply start with a fiat wage, convert to bitcoin to then instantly spend the same day for discounts.
bitcoin is NOT a loyalty store/card which you can top-up.

get passed the mindset of buy bitcoin in the morning to spend in the afternoon.

your logic and mindset is like saying why would americans buy euros simply because a 7-11 in america starts accepting euro's.

PLEASE learn what bitcoin is about, learn all the benefits. there are atleast 20 of them, there is reason a 7-11 store would discount a product simply because they accept euro.

once you get passed the mindset of that. and learn all the other possibilities of bitcoins you will see it.

it seems to me you just want to tempt others to buy coin from you under some pretense that you can con others with promises of discounts.. without truly explaining what bitcoin is and explain all the intricacies and benefits.

That my friend is not what bitcoin is about. please please please take some time and look at what other benefits bitcoin is, starting with why you are even on this forum. what benefits of bitcoin tempted you and made you think bitcoin was worth looking into, as i know it was not promises of discounts, as there are none,. and never should be. so look deep into yourself and come to the true desire of bitcoin, by remembering what brought you here in the first place.

then learn the other true benefits

This is what we call a straw man argument. When did I ever say that BTC is supposed to be a like a store card? I know that BTC is supposed to replace fiat. But it will not happen if there are no incentives. You can't keep saying "let us get to phase 3 first" etc etc. Even in phase 3 you need incentives. You cant just hope and pray that phase 3 will have the right incentives appear from magic. We need to start thinking about how to make these incentives. I am not a troll, I am looking for solutions.  You never answer my questions directly.


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October 03, 2014, 06:42:59 PM
 #52


a) Help people convince their employers to begin paying them in BTC, and ensure streamlined processes are in place to do so.






Really!!?? You think most people will accept BTC as wages even with all the volatility and no incentives? First give them the incentives then they will start asking for BTC wages. Don't put the cart before the horse. The effect before the cause.


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cafucafucafu
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October 03, 2014, 07:54:48 PM
 #53


a) Help people convince their employers to begin paying them in BTC, and ensure streamlined processes are in place to do so.






Really!!?? You think most people will accept BTC as wages even with all the volatility and no incentives? First give them the incentives then they will start asking for BTC wages. Don't put the cart before the horse. The effect before the cause.

Yes, because their "safe" 401ks worked out so well. It's a hedge. They get paid a small % in btc as a part of their portfolio. As adoption grows, as the infrastructure grows, so does their incentive to accept a higher % of their wage in btc. it slowly transfers from a high risk investment/hedge to the norm. Not only do they begin to greatly reap the benefits of using btc in a closed loop, but their btc is likely appreciating greatly while we drive towards critical mass. It gets particularily interesting when it hits that oh so important tipping point.

This is a nice answer. Finally someone answers with something sensible and not just empty rhetoric.

You have a good plan. Promote BTC so that it gets a good image and slowly get people to adopt it. The promotion would be the key here. We would have to state the benefits such as no inflation. In this way the users go into it thinking that it is for the future. This wont get many average guys to adopt it, but some of the more wealthy would. I.e. promote btc as an investment.


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October 03, 2014, 08:17:17 PM
 #54


a) Help people convince their employers to begin paying them in BTC, and ensure streamlined processes are in place to do so.

Really!!?? You think most people will accept BTC as wages even with all the volatility and no incentives? First give them the incentives then they will start asking for BTC wages. Don't put the cart before the horse. The effect before the cause.

Why not?  It's what I do.  I haven't been paid in anything except BTC for about 2 years now.

Of course I don't enjoy the current price decrease, but nor am I worried about it, as historically the price has always increased long-term, and I have every reason to believe that will continue in the long-term.  I charge in USD, make more than I need each month to cover living expenses, and the rest stays in BTC.  When an invoice payment comes in, I pay as many bills in BTC as I can with it, transfer out what I need in fiat to cover living, and the rest sits there in savings.

I don't know, but works great.
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October 03, 2014, 08:34:20 PM
 #55


a) Help people convince their employers to begin paying them in BTC, and ensure streamlined processes are in place to do so.

Really!!?? You think most people will accept BTC as wages even with all the volatility and no incentives? First give them the incentives then they will start asking for BTC wages. Don't put the cart before the horse. The effect before the cause.

Why not?  It's what I do.  

Because not everyone is like you. They struggle with money and they are not so smart. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0RH0cYs4lw


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October 03, 2014, 08:39:07 PM
 #56

Because not everyone is like you. They struggle with money and they are not so smart. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0RH0cYs4lw

Ummm, ok...  first...  that's from CNNN (notice the extra N).  It's an Australian Comedy Show called The Chasers.

Anyway, why not?  Get paid in BTC, pay 30% of your bills off right away, and pull the rest out in fiat.  That means 30% of your income is now essentially tax free.  You can't tell me your average person can't handle that.

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October 03, 2014, 09:26:57 PM
 #57

im 100% bitcoin income too.

cafucafucafu the loyalty card reference i mentions was a least waffly explanation of your obsession with discounts for spending in retail (essentially what a loyalty card does)

the 401k analogy is of buybitcoinscanada, is a incentive thats already built into bitcoin (scarcity/deflationary)
please take this the right way(politely), dont think about retail discounts, its not a good incentive, its not a long term incentive, its not a helpful incentive.

bitcoin has benefits of stabilizing humanity by measuring bitcoin directy to human labour. EG no matter where you live if bitcoin was measured against x hours of minimum wage labour. every country would easily trad bitcoins. because 60 hours of sweat in africa was worth 60 hours of sweat in california. thus equalling the worlds indifference's.

when dollar crashes and a loaf of bread spikes to $1000 a loaf. bitcoin will be the safe bet that people can still afford a loaf of bread for 1% of their weeks labour.

then theirs the stuff how chase banks got hacked, banks are doing "heir(hair) cuts"
no daily limits or cross border limits.
and 50 other "incentives"

so what tempted you to start thinking/accepting/hoarding/mining bitcoin. what "incentives" got you excited? think more about those incentives and not discounts

I DO NOT TRADE OR ACT AS ESCROW ON THIS FORUM EVER.
Please do your own research & respect what is written here as both opinion & information gleaned from experience. many people replying with insults but no on-topic content substance, automatically are 'facepalmed' and yawned at
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