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Author Topic: Troll theory  (Read 2197 times)
Rat_Poison
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October 04, 2014, 07:10:43 AM
 #21

With apparent retards making more or less accurate predictions

They do? They predict bitcoin crashing to zero since spring, I would not really call that accurate. It's like saying "bitcoin will cost gazillion" and then scream "I told you" when it moves 10 dollars up Smiley Amuzing yes, accurate no. As for pushing somebody's agenda, they probably do as they surely have an interest in the outcome but they don't sound like somebody who can own $100 for longer than one evening.

You have been warned by our bitcoin consortium since $680, we have many inside contacts with major players in this market, and know that this bear market will continue for much longer until final capitulation is reached. If you choose to ignoring our advices, then that's OK. But don't saying we're not warning you when the bags become too heavy!
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October 04, 2014, 07:21:41 AM
 #22

With apparent retards making more or less accurate predictions

They do? They predict bitcoin crashing to zero since spring, I would not really call that accurate. It's like saying "bitcoin will cost gazillion" and then scream "I told you" when it moves 10 dollars up Smiley Amuzing yes, accurate no. As for pushing somebody's agenda, they probably do as they surely have an interest in the outcome but they don't sound like somebody who can own $100 for longer than one evening.

You have been warned by our bitcoin consortium since $680, we have many inside contacts with major players in this market, and know that this bear market will continue for much longer until final capitulation is reached. If you choose to ignoring our advices, then that's OK. But don't saying we're not warning you when the bags become too heavy!
Why do you feel the need to save us from our "foolish selves"?
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October 04, 2014, 07:53:36 AM
 #23

With apparent retards making more or less accurate predictions

They do? They predict bitcoin crashing to zero since spring, I would not really call that accurate. It's like saying "bitcoin will cost gazillion" and then scream "I told you" when it moves 10 dollars up Smiley Amuzing yes, accurate no. As for pushing somebody's agenda, they probably do as they surely have an interest in the outcome but they don't sound like somebody who can own $100 for longer than one evening.

You have been warned by our bitcoin consortium since $680, we have many inside contacts with major players in this market, and know that this bear market will continue for much longer until final capitulation is reached. If you choose to ignoring our advices, then that's OK. But don't saying we're not warning you when the bags become too heavy!
Why do you feel the need to save us from our "foolish selves"?

Because they need our heavy bags Smiley

i am satoshi
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October 04, 2014, 12:00:38 PM
 #24

The trolling sure is reaching a new level these days. This is what the speculation main page looks to me right now:



Depressingly low signal/noise ratio.


That said, even though most of the trolling is done by "bears" (they're not really bears of course, just people that either hope to buy back cheaper, or that genuinely enjoy trolling),  I have little sympathy for the bulls, to the point where I'd say, they had it coming.

Remember how any - well motivated, non-trolling - bearish response spawned accusations of "perma bear" and "FUDster"? People like TERA who were being hounded for being trolls when they were simply bearish at times?

So that's what you got. With most of the real bears gone (because what's the point arguing with people that, after 10 months of almost uninterrupted downtrend still insist that the magical recovery and rise to 3000 is just around the corner), this forum is stuck with the pseudo-bear trolls.

If I sound bitter it's because I am, to a degree. Had a number of interesting discussions in here, and I understand the pain of people who run a pure buy & hold strategy and see the USD value of their holding go down 70%, but it's not really an inviting place for an exchange of opinions if well argued dissenting positions are regularly accused of being presented by trolls and paid shills.

tl;dr The place is poisoned, but it's because bulls drove away most of the reasonable bears.

Not sure which Bitcoin wallet to use? I suggest to take a look at Electrum.
Electrum is an open-source lightweight client: user friendly, fast, and one of the safest ways to store, send or receive bitcoins.
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October 04, 2014, 12:04:48 PM
 #25

Thoughtful post Oda.

But I don't see many bulls voicing that opinion left on the forum either. In fact this downtrend has be dragging on for months and this forum has been an absolute bear fest.

I would probably suggest bringing back newbie jail or suggesting more vigilant moderation if I thought it would achieve anything :p
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October 04, 2014, 12:11:34 PM
 #26

Thoughtful post Oda.

But I don't see many bulls voicing that opinion left on the forum either. In fact this downtrend has be dragging on for months and this forum has been an absolute bear fest.

I would probably suggest bringing back newbie jail or suggesting more vigilant moderation if I thought it would achieve anything :p


Thanks.

Point is, I even understand why the "crypto enthusiasts slash bulls" would react like that. This is "their" place. One of the few locations where they are among themselves. Since I'm an enthusiast myself, I can understand it - if almost everyone in the outside world tells you how dumb it is to put money into crypto, it's nice to finally have a place where you are among likeminded.

But the problem is of course that you then get to cases like TERA, or JorgeStolfi, who are *anything* but trolls (in a meaningful sense), just smart, opinionated people with a dissenting view (TERA on the market direction, Jorge on the long-term success likelihood of Bitcoin in general).

So here's the dilemma:

If you take offense at those positions (and people still do - go to the wall thread... if you quote Jorge, people will ask you to "not quote the troll") to the point where you prefer to mute them out, you're reducing signal/noise, because what you're left with are the real trolls and their incoherent posts.

If, on the other hand, you are more inviting to those dissenting opinions, this place will more resemble the "outside" world, where a large number of people are very skeptical if Bitcoin has a real chance of success.

So, like I said, I get why this dilemma exists. No matter how the most enthusiastic, optimistic posters in here react, it's going to have consequences they probably wouldn't like.

Not sure which Bitcoin wallet to use? I suggest to take a look at Electrum.
Electrum is an open-source lightweight client: user friendly, fast, and one of the safest ways to store, send or receive bitcoins.
For executables (Windows, OSX, Linux, Android), source code and documentation, see the Electrum homepage.
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October 04, 2014, 12:17:47 PM
 #27

Thoughtful post Oda.

But I don't see many bulls voicing that opinion left on the forum either. In fact this downtrend has be dragging on for months and this forum has been an absolute bear fest.

I would probably suggest bringing back newbie jail or suggesting more vigilant moderation if I thought it would achieve anything :p


Thanks.

Point is, I even understand why the "crypto enthusiasts slash bulls" would react like that. This is "their" place. One of the few locations where they are among themselves. Since I'm an enthusiast myself, I can understand it - if almost everyone in the outside world tells you how dumb it is to put money into crypto, it's nice to finally have a place where you are among likeminded.

But the problem is of course that you then get to cases like TERA, or JorgeStolfi, who are *anything* but trolls (in a meaningful sense), just smart, opinionated people with a dissenting view (TERA on the market direction, Jorge on the long-term success likelihood of Bitcoin in general).

So here's the dilemma:

If you take offense at those positions (and people still do - go to the wall thread... if you quote Jorge, people will ask you to "not quote the troll") to the point where you prefer to mute them out, you're reducing signal/noise, because what you're left with are the real trolls and their incoherent posts.

If, on the other hand, you are more inviting to those dissenting opinions, this place will more resemble the "outside" world, where a large number of people are very skeptical if Bitcoin has a real chance of success.

So, like I said, I get why this dilemma exists. No matter how the most enthusiastic, optimistic posters in here react, it's going to have consequences they probably wouldn't like.

True it is a dilemma and not easily solved because a forum like bitcointalk will always attract in the main bitcoin supportive users.

That said, as your picture shows what is currently across the forum frontpage are numerous troll doommongering bear threads that are devoid of any meaningful analysis whatsoever. I don't think that in anyway represents what the outside world think about bitcoin.

Overall I agree this forum has completely lost any sense of balanced reasoned analysis. I wasn't here in 2011 but I am curious whether a similar effect was observed then.
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October 04, 2014, 12:21:27 PM
 #28

Great point oda. I miss TERA. I've also been posting less and less (aside from the Bitfinex Credit Bubble thread perhaps), perhaps that is part of the reason why. It makes sense that when people insult you for making reasoned bearish posts that the reaction to that is thoughtless troll posts, insulting back.

I wasn't here in 2011 but I am curious whether a similar effect was observed then.
It wasn't any different, only the moderation was worse (I think it was entirely unmoderated even).

PS: I do get to the trolls/spammers eventually, but some people here keep bumping and responding to them. Don't feed them, thanks.
An amorous cow-herder
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October 04, 2014, 02:19:23 PM
 #29

Point is, I even understand why the "crypto enthusiasts slash bulls" would react like that. This is "their" place. One of the few locations where they are among themselves. Since I'm an enthusiast myself, I can understand it - if almost everyone in the outside world tells you how dumb it is to put money into crypto, it's nice to finally have a place where you are among likeminded.
Ah yes, groupthink, leads to really stupid decisions often enough.
And seriously, those bulls claiming BTC will be worth $1M fairly soon, sometime after the next reward halving, are just too hilarious. That would basicly mean mining turns into $500B+ business by then. No explanation where that kind of money is supposed to come from. But hey, fancy charts which look vaguely scientific. Thats gonna fool quite a few people.

My "troll theory" is actually a lot simpler. There are a lot of people who actually believed this million dollar crap and are now pretty pissed of. And well, considering how most people tick they wont really consider the option "i was stupid falling for this" but instead think "i was cheated". And vent their rage on the forums.


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October 04, 2014, 02:29:48 PM
 #30

Great point oda. I miss TERA. I've also been posting less and less (aside from the Bitfinex Credit Bubble thread perhaps), perhaps that is part of the reason why. It makes sense that when people insult you for making reasoned bearish posts that the reaction to that is thoughtless troll posts, insulting back.

I wasn't here in 2011 but I am curious whether a similar effect was observed then.
It wasn't any different, only the moderation was worse (I think it was entirely unmoderated even).

PS: I do get to the trolls/spammers eventually, but some people here keep bumping and responding to them. Don't feed them, thanks.

Quick note on moderation:

I wanna go on record that I think you're doing a fine job. Not an easy balance to find - during a bull run, the bears complain, during a bear market, the bulls want all bearish spam removed.

One thing I believe could be better: Posts should never be removed /just/ because they're ultra-bullish or bearish. But there's a large number of posts made (prime example: fallling and his alts) that are entirely *contentless*. Nothing but rubbing it in. Similar on a bull run, with posts that don't even contain any new info or argument, basically just consisting of "told you so" in so many words.

The problem is, people respond to those posts, probably out of the honest desire not to let the trolls go uncontested. Not the smart thing to do, but that's human nature. I noticed that if I (and others, I'm sure) report those posts, you don't delete them, probably because they already have gathered some responses.

So that's my only request: if a post is really just pure non-informative "teasing", and someone reports it, I'd ask you to consider deleting it even if there are already a few responses.

Any chance that made any sense to you? Cheesy

Not sure which Bitcoin wallet to use? I suggest to take a look at Electrum.
Electrum is an open-source lightweight client: user friendly, fast, and one of the safest ways to store, send or receive bitcoins.
For executables (Windows, OSX, Linux, Android), source code and documentation, see the Electrum homepage.
blitzbad
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October 04, 2014, 02:39:18 PM
 #31

Great point oda. I miss TERA. I've also been posting less and less (aside from the Bitfinex Credit Bubble thread perhaps), perhaps that is part of the reason why. It makes sense that when people insult you for making reasoned bearish posts that the reaction to that is thoughtless troll posts, insulting back.

I wasn't here in 2011 but I am curious whether a similar effect was observed then.
It wasn't any different, only the moderation was worse (I think it was entirely unmoderated even).

PS: I do get to the trolls/spammers eventually, but some people here keep bumping and responding to them. Don't feed them, thanks.

Quick note on moderation:

I wanna go on record that I think you're doing a fine job. Not an easy balance to find - during a bull run, the bears complain, during a bear market, the bulls want all bearish spam removed.

One thing I believe could be better: Posts should never be removed /just/ because they're ultra-bullish or bearish. But there's a large number of posts made (prime example: fallling and his alts) that are entirely *contentless*. Nothing but rubbing it in. Similar on a bull run, with posts that don't even contain any new info or argument, basically just consisting of "told you so" in so many words.

The problem is, people respond to those posts, probably out of the honest desire not to let the trolls go uncontested. Not the smart thing to do, but that's human nature. I noticed that if I (and others, I'm sure) report those posts, you don't delete them, probably because they already have gathered some responses.

So that's my only request: if a post is really just pure non-informative "teasing", and someone reports it, I'd ask you to consider deleting it even if there are already a few responses.

Any chance that made any sense to you? Cheesy

you are lying about fallling's post, here is just one part of his posts which is not contentless at all but deleted just beacause permabulls or bulltrolls ask for it:

Quote
You should start dumping too before it's too late! let's see what "good" news have we got so far:

Old:
goxed,no one with a college degree will invest any serious sums into bitcoin after MTGOX fiasco, The market is currently only a playground for gamblers and fanatics
51% pool (easy came easy gone easy return)
crackers and governments and shit having 1200k coins(mtgox 200k, Ross Ulbricht 140k, crackers: 850k)
no new money
governments warning and banning
many scam IPOs including Ethereum and others
everyone is selling / spending
Dell / Expedia / Newegg / House dealer / etc are selling in real time


New:
Winklevoss ETF will actually be shot down
GABI is already priced in but it turned out to short on bitcoin or it has failed to raise fund ($200 million is just fake)
Dubai exchange won't create any thing new
more PayPal or whatever businesses "accept" bitcoin (immediately dump it on exchanges via market sells), the more it will crash. It will crash hard because people will only use the new integration to dump all of their BTC holdings fast


So now you can see no one is getting in bitcoin and early adopters can't wait to find more new ways to cash your money out
(the fund you invested in bitcoin are vanishing because who fooling you to buy in are taking your money away via Exchanger/Payment Service/All those "good" news bitcoin accepting companies etc, same as a ponzi pyramid scheme)

what's coming are more dumps and will lead bitcoin to it's final capitulation, so do NOT buy in any fake recovers or you will lose your money, if you already have bitcoin bags then cut looses before it goes back to $0.01!

remember few weeks ago the dead cat bounce reached $530? today people are happy even without breaking $400, this time drop back to $300 can be expected

You have been warned since $680 !
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=758244 $476
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=713671 $510
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=698224 $580
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=665200 $590
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=650517 $600
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=649261 $620

http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/chart.png?width=940&m=bitstampUSD&SubmitButton=Draw&r=60&i=&c=1&s=2014-07-01&e=2014-10-02&Prev=&Next=&t=S&b=&a1=&m1=10&a2=&m2=25&x=0&i1=&i2=&i3=&i4=&v=1&cv=0&ps=0&l=0&p=0&

http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/chart.png?width=940&m=bitstampUSD&SubmitButton=Draw&r=360&i=&c=1&s=2013-12-01&e=2014-10-02&Prev=&Next=&t=S&b=&a1=&m1=10&a2=&m2=25&x=0&i1=&i2=&i3=&i4=&v=1&cv=0&ps=0&l=0&p=0&

https://i.imgur.com/LL6QD2P.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/F7v3lBx.png


let me get this straight you are just trying to fool Blitz­ to get worse on his jobs, you are also trying to cover the bearish market's true situation, mentioned couple "bulls are not ok too" won't make you looks like a fair person, if you want to be a permabull at least admit it
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October 04, 2014, 02:45:47 PM
 #32

OP, are you saying that we should listen to trolls?
They are confusing, but not right. The moment you listen to them, their masters will reverse the trend.

First bitcoin bought at $70
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October 04, 2014, 03:27:28 PM
 #33

So that's my only request: if a post is really just pure non-informative "teasing", and someone reports it, I'd ask you to consider deleting it even if there are already a few responses.
I would add to this, delete any responses to it too. Otherwise the spamming will just intensify to at least get some trolling through. And we really don't want to encourage troll feeding.

There is no bubble.
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October 04, 2014, 03:30:29 PM
 #34

So that's my only request: if a post is really just pure non-informative "teasing", and someone reports it, I'd ask you to consider deleting it even if there are already a few responses.
I would add to this, delete any responses to it too. Otherwise the spamming will just intensify to at least get some trolling through. And we really don't want to encourage troll feeding.

same to those permabull topics which encourage people to buy, also should delete all those topics said about "to da moon or time to bounce up stuffs" because they have all been proved wrong and bulltrolls
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October 04, 2014, 03:30:37 PM
 #35

OP, are you saying that we should listen to trolls?
They are confusing, but not right. The moment you listen to them, their masters will reverse the trend.
That was pretty much the point, yes. At the moment and for a while now listening to them would have been profitable. When enough people do that doing the opposite will be profitable. The only long term solution is to completely ignore them. We have far too many schmucks here who keep feeding them.

There is no bubble.
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