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Author Topic: Still buying Hardware?  (Read 6734 times)
seriouscoin
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October 05, 2014, 02:53:15 PM
 #21

So what is going to happen that causes the price of BTC to rise again?

Simple Economic dictates : Velocity.  Meaning more ppl using the currency.

As we know supply rate is fixed, the velocity has to go up for the price to rise.
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seriouscoin
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October 05, 2014, 02:58:21 PM
 #22

Let me guess, you noobs think " why buy btc when you can mine for free ? ". Just spend $1.5k on a computer, and get btc forever right?


Awesome, keep buying.

Why do you care? To be right? To be thanked? To sound like an asshole every day?

Just curious why?

Reason i care is because when ppl lose money in "investments" (99% of noobs buying mining hardware see it as investment), they will become haters. The last thing i want is dumb haters that cause resistant to bitcoin adoption. So far this year i only see ppl come to bitcoin because of mining. Media did a great job spreading BS about mining revenue/profits.
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October 05, 2014, 03:01:46 PM
 #23

No current miner is profitable at the rate btc price is going. The money you can buy btc with will be at least double what you would be able to mine with that same dollar value. If you buy hardware for a profit you need to rethink your strategy quickly

Depends...I buy used gear for BTC that with my free power makes more than I bought it for all the time. If you buy new stuff even with free power you lose. If I did not have free power there is no way I could get a positive ROI though. I know everyone likes to bash on people buying miners, but lets not forget it is good for the network. If we see months of decline in hashrate that is horrible for Bitcoin as a whole.

Maybe not? Hoping the price dives under $100 for a while so the big guys have to close shop Grin.

only works if they panic sell the gear.  If they just turn off the power it does not work as well.

BTW seriouscoin   we are in agreement on this  " Velocity of BTC can drive price up " 

If Paypal accepts BTC  we may get a decent fiat boost.

Please support sidehack with his new miner project Send to : 1BURGERAXHH6Yi6LRybRJK7ybEm5m5HwTr
I mine alt coins with https://simplemining.net I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
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October 05, 2014, 03:04:30 PM
 #24

No current miner is profitable at the rate btc price is going. The money you can buy btc with will be at least double what you would be able to mine with that same dollar value. If you buy hardware for a profit you need to rethink your strategy quickly

Depends...I buy used gear for BTC that with my free power makes more than I bought it for all the time. If you buy new stuff even with free power you lose. If I did not have free power there is no way I could get a positive ROI though. I know everyone likes to bash on people buying miners, but lets not forget it is good for the network. If we see months of decline in hashrate that is horrible for Bitcoin as a whole.

Maybe not? Hoping the price dives under $100 for a while so the big guys have to close shop Grin.

only works if they panic sell the gear.  If they just turn off the power it does not work as well.

Thats true, plus the fact that they got hardware at discount/cost.

They can manage the operating cost easily. Since their operating cost is already lower than any small/home miners, they're already ahead.
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October 05, 2014, 07:25:22 PM
 #25

No current miner is profitable at the rate btc price is going. The money you can buy btc with will be at least double what you would be able to mine with that same dollar value. If you buy hardware for a profit you need to rethink your strategy quickly

Depends...I buy used gear for BTC that with my free power makes more than I bought it for all the time. If you buy new stuff even with free power you lose. If I did not have free power there is no way I could get a positive ROI though. I know everyone likes to bash on people buying miners, but lets not forget it is good for the network. If we see months of decline in hashrate that is horrible for Bitcoin as a whole.

Maybe not? Hoping the price dives under $100 for a while so the big guys have to close shop Grin.

Did you miss the points above completely? All the home/small miners close shop first.


you missed the point.  small home miners will mine coins as a hobby, forever, because they believe in the idea, just like before.  big miners shut down when they cant pay their bills.
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October 05, 2014, 09:00:45 PM
 #26

No current miner is profitable at the rate btc price is going. The money you can buy btc with will be at least double what you would be able to mine with that same dollar value. If you buy hardware for a profit you need to rethink your strategy quickly

Depends...I buy used gear for BTC that with my free power makes more than I bought it for all the time. If you buy new stuff even with free power you lose. If I did not have free power there is no way I could get a positive ROI though. I know everyone likes to bash on people buying miners, but lets not forget it is good for the network. If we see months of decline in hashrate that is horrible for Bitcoin as a whole.

Maybe not? Hoping the price dives under $100 for a while so the big guys have to close shop Grin.

Did you miss the points above completely? All the home/small miners close shop first.


you missed the point.  small home miners will mine coins as a hobby, forever, because they believe in the idea, just like before.  big miners shut down when they cant pay their bills.

That may be true for a home miner with a couple of S3s. But what about a home miner with a relatively large farm? I certainly can't justify or afford to pay my $1700 electric bill every month if I'm not making any money in return.
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October 05, 2014, 09:33:03 PM
 #27

No current miner is profitable at the rate btc price is going. The money you can buy btc with will be at least double what you would be able to mine with that same dollar value. If you buy hardware for a profit you need to rethink your strategy quickly

Depends...I buy used gear for BTC that with my free power makes more than I bought it for all the time. If you buy new stuff even with free power you lose. If I did not have free power there is no way I could get a positive ROI though. I know everyone likes to bash on people buying miners, but lets not forget it is good for the network. If we see months of decline in hashrate that is horrible for Bitcoin as a whole.

Maybe not? Hoping the price dives under $100 for a while so the big guys have to close shop Grin.

Did you miss the points above completely? All the home/small miners close shop first.


you missed the point.  small home miners will mine coins as a hobby, forever, because they believe in the idea, just like before.  big miners shut down when they cant pay their bills.

LOL in your wet dream.
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October 05, 2014, 11:00:12 PM
 #28

No current miner is profitable at the rate btc price is going. The money you can buy btc with will be at least double what you would be able to mine with that same dollar value. If you buy hardware for a profit you need to rethink your strategy quickly

Depends...I buy used gear for BTC that with my free power makes more than I bought it for all the time. If you buy new stuff even with free power you lose. If I did not have free power there is no way I could get a positive ROI though. I know everyone likes to bash on people buying miners, but lets not forget it is good for the network. If we see months of decline in hashrate that is horrible for Bitcoin as a whole.

Maybe not? Hoping the price dives under $100 for a while so the big guys have to close shop Grin.

Did you miss the points above completely? All the home/small miners close shop first.


you missed the point.  small home miners will mine coins as a hobby, forever, because they believe in the idea, just like before.  big miners shut down when they cant pay their bills.

That may be true for a home miner with a couple of S3s. But what about a home miner with a relatively large farm? I certainly can't justify or afford to pay my $1700 electric bill every month if I'm not making any money in return.
 

I shrink my farm from 6k watts to 1.1kwatts and in 60-75 days I turn it off.

Please support sidehack with his new miner project Send to : 1BURGERAXHH6Yi6LRybRJK7ybEm5m5HwTr
I mine alt coins with https://simplemining.net I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
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October 06, 2014, 03:43:58 AM
 #29

Even with current BTC price I am still mining @ a profit on most of my hardware. S1's were the dream buy well over 160% ROI with the electric paid. 
  • S2 B2 is @ 157% ROI w/ bills paid - 199Days and still "banking" 0.015BTC/ day for the next 2 weeks anyhow
  • S2 B3 are @ 82% - 134Days
  • SP10 GB are @ 62% - 133Days
  • S3 B2 @ 101% - 76Days
  • Tubes are 47% - 37Days
   

The prices being asked for new equipment is not able to be supported by a small business or individual miner. Thankfully the price drop, which I feel has much to do with the Russian law being discussed, will cause the manufacturers who have chosen to compete in mining to begin to slow their sale of BTC and begin holding it. This will change them from the blood sucking vampires they now are into promoters and supporters of BTC so that their investments are safe and they can be rewarded by a strong and useful block chain.

Else watch the Cork suckers race to the bottom and watch for the fire sales...  HAHA, reminds me of 2011-2012 when everyone was shutting down their GPU's, man did I feel smart in Nov 2013 Wink
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October 06, 2014, 01:15:14 PM
 #30

Let me guess, you noobs think " why buy btc when you can mine for free ? ". Just spend $1.5k on a computer, and get btc forever right?


Awesome, keep buying.
After calculation. If the output is bigger than input, Why not?

I would love to see your "calculation"

LOL


Here is one variable you noobs never get : manufacturers can/will/do outmine you. But nope, you still use your dumb "percentile" anyway.


dude you could use a time out.  no one on this thread is a newbie.   we have all been a round a while .  We have found our little spots to do some mining and we do it.

I do roi in fiat and in btc .  But I can not do this easily or at  a big scale.

To me noobs are ppl who see estimations as some concrete calculations (if the output is higher, then why not). Just like you, who keep saying " 0 -9%" over and over again, while pulling that number straight out of your ass. Each jump it was close to 15%. But you continue anyway.

Problem is greed blinds ppl so that they only fantasize their ROI. The fact that they use bitcoin price to justify it prove this (if bitcoin price jumps, i will get ROI and then some)

Is that not exactly what you're doing by preaching your estimations that all miners are unprofitable as a fact?

Seems like the only thing you ever post is about how unprofitable mining is or about how someone is much less intelligent than yourself.

Here's a fun fact: For over 9 months people have been repeating the same worn out mantra that mining will be unprofitable yet anyone who started mining more than 3 months ago was able to turn a profit. (provided they bought the best priced hardware at the time)

I think most of the people saying mining will not be profitable are naively putting 15% average increases into a calculator and basing their conclusion entirely on that.

People seem to have the idea that large scale mining operations are completely immune to the dropping btc exchange rate and increasing difficulty. Just like everyone else, their profit margins will suffer meaning less money to reinvest in hardware.

Whether you are aware of it or not, the difficulty is in fact slowing down and eventually the market will reach equilibrium (1-3% avg increases) at which point home miners with electricity rates below $0.05/kwh will easily turn a profit. (unless ultra cheap ~0.1w/gh hardware comes out within the next few months)



Home mining is not dead, it's only dead for people with uncompetitive electricity rates.
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October 06, 2014, 01:53:39 PM
 #31

... home miners with electricity rates below $0.05/kwh will easily turn a profit. (unless ultra cheap ~0.1w/gh hardware comes out within the next few months)
Home mining is not dead, it's only dead for people with uncompetitive electricity rates.

PLEASE!!!  Tell me where on Earth you can get residential service for a nickel a KWh? I have my miners packed..

The fees on my electric bill are 0.03/KWh on top of the 0.08/KWh for the juice.
seriouscoin
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October 06, 2014, 03:40:25 PM
 #32

... home miners with electricity rates below $0.05/kwh will easily turn a profit. (unless ultra cheap ~0.1w/gh hardware comes out within the next few months)
Home mining is not dead, it's only dead for people with uncompetitive electricity rates.

PLEASE!!!  Tell me where on Earth you can get residential service for a nickel a KWh? I have my miners packed..

The fees on my electric bill are 0.03/KWh on top of the 0.08/KWh for the juice.

From his ass...

Use 0.1/kwh and 3% difficulty increase (Yes 3%) on the current S4, it can not even ROI.


Btw, hes an ASICMINER shareholder...... the fcker doesnt mine but want suckers doing it.
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October 06, 2014, 03:46:19 PM
 #33

.

Use 0.1/kwh and 3% difficulty increase (Yes 3%) on the current S4, it can not even ROI.


This was making ROI for bitmain when they developed it. Now its just dust maker and portable heater.

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October 06, 2014, 04:03:44 PM
 #34

... home miners with electricity rates below $0.05/kwh will easily turn a profit. (unless ultra cheap ~0.1w/gh hardware comes out within the next few months)
Home mining is not dead, it's only dead for people with uncompetitive electricity rates.

PLEASE!!!  Tell me where on Earth you can get residential service for a nickel a KWh? I have my miners packed..

The fees on my electric bill are 0.03/KWh on top of the 0.08/KWh for the juice.

Have you tried looking in Washington?

Use 0.1/kwh and 3% difficulty increase (Yes 3%) on the current S4, it can not even ROI.

See there's your problem. $0.1/kwh is far from the cheapest electricity and the S4 is far from the cheapest miner.

Here's an example where miners could turn a profit using a reasonably priced miner: http://btcinvest.net/en/bitcoin-mining-profit-calculator.php?diff=35661425924&dcosts=550&diff_mincrease=10&blpbtc=25&dhsmhs=1480000&diff_mincreasedecrease=5&btcusd=320&dpowcon=1100&btcusd_mincrease=1&pcost=0.05&calcweeks=32&dleadtime=0&action=calc
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October 06, 2014, 04:33:02 PM
 #35

... home miners with electricity rates below $0.05/kwh will easily turn a profit. (unless ultra cheap ~0.1w/gh hardware comes out within the next few months)
Home mining is not dead, it's only dead for people with uncompetitive electricity rates.

PLEASE!!!  Tell me where on Earth you can get residential service for a nickel a KWh? I have my miners packed..

The fees on my electric bill are 0.03/KWh on top of the 0.08/KWh for the juice.

Have you tried looking in Washington?

Use 0.1/kwh and 3% difficulty increase (Yes 3%) on the current S4, it can not even ROI.

See there's your problem. $0.1/kwh is far from the cheapest electricity and the S4 is far from the cheapest miner.

Here's an example where miners could turn a profit using a reasonably priced miner: http://btcinvest.net/en/bitcoin-mining-profit-calculator.php?diff=35661425924&dcosts=550&diff_mincrease=10&blpbtc=25&dhsmhs=1480000&diff_mincreasedecrease=5&btcusd=320&dpowcon=1100&btcusd_mincrease=1&pcost=0.05&calcweeks=32&dleadtime=0&action=calc
That's a pretty interesting calculator... at least they attempt to handle the flaws of other calculators by including parameters for non-static difficulty jumps and BTC prices.  Definitely not a perfect model, but better than most.

Jonny's Pool - Mine with us and help us grow!  Support a pool that supports Bitcoin, not a hardware manufacturer's pockets!  No SPV cheats.  No empty blocks.
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October 06, 2014, 04:36:40 PM
 #36

Let me guess, you noobs think " why buy btc when you can mine for free ? ". Just spend $1.5k on a computer, and get btc forever right?


Awesome, keep buying.
After calculation. If the output is bigger than input, Why not?

I would love to see your "calculation"

LOL


Here is one variable you noobs never get : manufacturers can/will/do outmine you. But nope, you still use your dumb "percentile" anyway.


HELLO MASTER NOOB, COMMANDER OF NOOB ARMIES

Here is one variable you will never get, why pay to heat your house when you can mine to do it? WINTER IS COMING AND ITS FUCKING COLD.

If you live in a warm climate, then bitcoin mining may not be for you.

99% of people actually buy heaters for the basement, garage, house, etcetcetc.  For the same price or a little more, ill buy a miner and heat my house.  win-win-win-win.

                                 
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whonesta
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October 06, 2014, 05:28:56 PM
 #37

... home miners with electricity rates below $0.05/kwh will easily turn a profit. (unless ultra cheap ~0.1w/gh hardware comes out within the next few months)
Home mining is not dead, it's only dead for people with uncompetitive electricity rates.

PLEASE!!!  Tell me where on Earth you can get residential service for a nickel a KWh? I have my miners packed..

The fees on my electric bill are 0.03/KWh on top of the 0.08/KWh for the juice.

Have you tried looking in Washington?


Um Yes Yes I have, building a 25KW farm there as I write AND AGAIN I say WHERE??

http://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/epm_table_grapher.cfm?t=epmt_5_6_a

Maybe he meant INDUSTRIAL energy price, which takes a MASSIVE LOAD to get pricing there, with monthly minimums that would fry a cat. Reading the AM report on trying to save their ship would NOT include RESIDENTIAL rates.

Jimmothy is a shill no doubt and a LIAR to boot. Dude why do you open your mouth so much when it is obvious you do not have 1 clue about mining, why not just go shill the Prism or Tube, the adults are trying to speak...
philipma1957
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October 06, 2014, 05:54:03 PM
 #38

... home miners with electricity rates below $0.05/kwh will easily turn a profit. (unless ultra cheap ~0.1w/gh hardware comes out within the next few months)
Home mining is not dead, it's only dead for people with uncompetitive electricity rates.

PLEASE!!!  Tell me where on Earth you can get residential service for a nickel a KWh? I have my miners packed..

The fees on my electric bill are 0.03/KWh on top of the 0.08/KWh for the juice.

Have you tried looking in Washington?


Um Yes Yes I have, building a 25KW farm there as I write AND AGAIN I say WHERE??

http://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/epm_table_grapher.cfm?t=epmt_5_6_a

Maybe he meant INDUSTRIAL energy price, which takes a MASSIVE LOAD to get pricing there, with monthly minimums that would fry a cat. Reading the AM report on trying to save their ship would NOT include RESIDENTIAL rates.

Jimmothy is a shill no doubt and a LIAR to boot. Dude why do you open your mouth so much when it is obvious you do not have 1 clue about mining, why not just go shill the Prism or Tube, the adults are trying to speak...

Well if you purchased 3 coins under 300 usd this weekend  and they are now 340 usd.

 you could argue buying 2 long tubes for heating works just as well as buying heaters. 

since the long tubes are 100% btc price.

  I can get 2 for 2.84 btc from canaryinthemine .

 so I can get about 3th for under 600 usd .  that is 20 cents a gh.



Here is the bottomline some miners can do a bit of home mining.
But home mining of btc will not ever be great as it was in NOV 2013.
I believe that if coins jump to 2000 diff will skyrocket because  Asicbuilders can add lots of hashpower quickly.

   

Please support sidehack with his new miner project Send to : 1BURGERAXHH6Yi6LRybRJK7ybEm5m5HwTr
I mine alt coins with https://simplemining.net I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
jimmothy
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October 06, 2014, 06:02:11 PM
 #39

... home miners with electricity rates below $0.05/kwh will easily turn a profit. (unless ultra cheap ~0.1w/gh hardware comes out within the next few months)
Home mining is not dead, it's only dead for people with uncompetitive electricity rates.

PLEASE!!!  Tell me where on Earth you can get residential service for a nickel a KWh? I have my miners packed..

The fees on my electric bill are 0.03/KWh on top of the 0.08/KWh for the juice.

Have you tried looking in Washington?


Um Yes Yes I have, building a 25KW farm there as I write AND AGAIN I say WHERE??

http://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/epm_table_grapher.cfm?t=epmt_5_6_a

Maybe he meant INDUSTRIAL energy price, which takes a MASSIVE LOAD to get pricing there, with monthly minimums that would fry a cat. Reading the AM report on trying to save their ship would NOT include RESIDENTIAL rates.

Jimmothy is a shill no doubt and a LIAR to boot. Dude why do you open your mouth so much when it is obvious you do not have 1 clue about mining, why not just go shill the Prism or Tube, the adults are trying to speak...

http://www.douglaspud.org/pages/2013-rates-january-1-2013.aspx

http://www.chelanpud.org/rates.html

http://www.grantpud.org/customer-service/payments-billing/rates-and-fees
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October 06, 2014, 06:06:35 PM
 #40

its profitable if you get some cheap hardwares
you can get into bitcoin mining with low investment
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