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Author Topic: For those who have no idea what to do  (Read 4229 times)
Ibian
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October 06, 2014, 06:21:18 PM
 #61

Trolls get celebrity level attention, actually useful posts are ridiculed. Time for a break from this board.

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cbeast
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October 06, 2014, 06:27:12 PM
 #62

This is a disheartening post.

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It misses so many points that have been discussed many times.

That's why I clearly stated that the OP wasn't exhaustive or even comprehensive in its scope.  But I'm genuinely curious which points you're referring to and how they impact affect what I'm saying.

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Because there is so much negativity now I don't want to be accused of being a bag holder. Oh well, I'm happy for you to feel like you won a game or something.

Oh give me a break. Thanks for just ignoring everything except the last line in the OP which I reluctantly posted to be transparent as possible.  The mere inclusion of that last line unquestionably removes bias from the OP.

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You can make vague observations, but it's hardly speculation.

You think?!  Thanks, Captain Obvious.  Dude, Systems Theory isn't supposed to lead to speculation no matter what discipline it's applied to.  For example, systems theory as applied to psychology doesn't outline treatment or a course of action, but rather it helps you understand the psychology of a person or group in a context that can be consistently applied again and again.  All your reply shows is that you don't understand the theory or what it's intended for.  I even flatly stated that the OP is extremely general as it uses a theory which can be, and routinely is, applied to literally dozens of various disciplines.  In other words, I never even tried to speculate.

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These systems you speak of sound like spirituality. That's fine too. Everything is connected and kumbaya right back at ya.

Now you're just going overboard.  The post is supposed to help people who are struggling to grasp the context of the situation due to intense emotions and/or a host of other factors.  The point is to set Bitcoin into a context that is internally and externally consistent throughout.  I'm not going to do your speculating for you or anyone else, but since I have significant experience with modeling these types of things, I thought this was another way I could contribute.
I held back on that post because I thought maybe you were just feeling sorry for someone and wanted to add a little advice. I just wanted to frame your post in the context that it isn't a win-lose game... mostly because I admit to being a firm believer in Bitcoin. Now I just need to clarify why I felt it was in remiss.

You made good points about history, but then you talked about systemic death and entropy. Misuse of the term entropy is a pet peeve of mine. It's worse than quantum. There's no need to argue about them here.

But I am completely at a loss why you felt you needed to post this in the first place. What was your presumption? Emotions aren't something people need to be talked through by posting, they are what people need to learn to deal with. If people are simply speculating without any understanding, then they deserve no advice at all, nor would they want any. Better advice would have been to go talk to someone IRL, not try to feel some sense of "internally and externally consistent context" that Bitcoin is somehow part of some machine and that sometimes machine parts fail. I don't see it that way at all. Forgive me for saying this but you had no moral authority to talk about Bitcoin failing as if you understood the emergent complexities of OPEN SOURCE systems. There are no books on this yet. They are being written as this technology and philosophy unfolds.

Besides, the post ended up being a rallying post for Bitcoin bashers that agreed with you without even understanding what you were talking about.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
the joint
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October 06, 2014, 07:05:09 PM
 #63

I held back on that post because I thought maybe you were just feeling sorry for someone and wanted to add a little advice. I just wanted to frame your post in the context that it isn't a win-lose game... mostly because I admit to being a firm believer in Bitcoin. Now I just need to clarify why I felt it was in remiss.

I don't like watching anyone here panic, or lose money.  It's not a good feeling.  I didn't think that interjecting the word "game" once would actually avert your attention onto that word and blow it up and forget about everything that came before it.  Half of your entire first response to this post fixated on that one word all by itself.  Sorry, I'll rephrase.  I don't still have stake in the "game," but I still have stake in "[insert other arbitrary label that's completely beside the point here]."

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You made good points about history, but then you talked about systemic death and entropy. Misuse of the term entropy is a pet peeve of mine. It's worse than quantum. There's no need to argue about them here.

Here you go, Slick. Here's your entropy:

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en·tro·py
lack of order or predictability; gradual decline into disorder.
"a marketplace where entropy reigns supreme"
synonyms:   deterioration, degeneration, crumbling, decline, degradation, decomposition, breaking down, collapse

It's not misuse.  You made the complaint (that I'll get to in a second) that placing Bitcoin in an accurate context is irrelevant, and then you go and misplace entropy into a context irrelevant to this discussion.  Entropy as a term can be applied more broadly than what you think.

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But I am completely at a loss why you felt you needed to post this in the first place. What was your presumption?

The title of the thread didn't give you any indication?    The title is, "For those who have no idea what to do."  My presumption is that there are people who have no idea what to do.

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Emotions aren't something people need to be talked through by posting, they are what people need to learn to deal with.

Where did you get the impression this was a counseling session?  Although, the OP can help you to deal with emotions by focusing less on what is unknown (which triggers the stressful emotions) and focusing on what is knowable (thereby hopefully alleviating some stress).

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If people are simply speculating without any understanding, then they deserve no advice at all, nor would they want any.

That's what dicks say.  Some people try very hard to understand and don't.

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Better advice would have been to go talk to someone IRL, not try to feel some sense of "internally and externally consistent context" that Bitcoin is somehow part of some machine and that sometimes machine parts fail. I don't see it that way at all. Forgive me for saying this but you had no moral authority to talk about Bitcoin failing as if you understood the emergent complexities of OPEN SOURCE systems. There are no books on this yet. They are being written as this technology and philosophy unfolds.

"...you had no moral authority to talk about Bitcoin failing as if..."

Lol WHAT?!  I don't even.  Who and where the...

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Besides, the post ended up being a rallying post for Bitcoin bashers that agreed with you without even understanding what you were talking about.

You must be really having a bad day.

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October 06, 2014, 08:12:48 PM
 #64

To the joint.

I found your post helpful, very helpful and if more people held and applied your thoughts as regard to people's aid and guidance we probably would never have had a bitcoin system appear, we would have been enough for each other.
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October 06, 2014, 08:35:16 PM
 #65

Should you sell?  Should you buy?  Should you HODL?  Should you diversify?

The OP starts out quite nicely and balanced. But then it goes on listing only arguments, some of them invalid, why you should get out ASAP.

If you are using entropy as a metaphor, you should also note that decreasing entropy does not mean that the system is getting in any way "better" and increasing entropy does not mean the opposite. If you start up a power plant, it's entropy certainly increases, but that is how you get it to generate electrical output.

Biased. Ignored.

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October 06, 2014, 08:41:09 PM
 #66

Should you sell?  Should you buy?  Should you HODL?  Should you diversify?

The OP starts out quite nicely and balanced. But then it goes on listing only arguments, some of them invalid, why you should get out ASAP.

If you are using entropy as a metaphor, you should also note that decreasing entropy does not mean that the system is getting in any way "better" and increasing entropy does not mean the opposite. If you start up a power plant, it's entropy certainly increases, but that is how you get it to generate electrical output.

Biased. Ignored.

Except I didn't.  Literally the only concrete advice given in the entire post is not not take extreme positions, e.g. 100% HODL or 100% sell.

Also, volatility was the indicator I put forth as a measure of systemic instability, not entropy.

Edit:  Since when did all the legendaries become the cheerleaders from Bring it On?

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