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Author Topic: A future of high transaction fees?  (Read 1743 times)
ANTIcentralized
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October 07, 2014, 06:36:20 AM
 #21

Most understand the price is volatile and understand it will take time to increase prices so they see it as an investment. No matter at what difficulty rate.
A miner is not going to continue to mine if they spend more resources in running their miners then they make in mined bitcoin. If they were to run into a situation like this then they would turn off their miners and buy any bitcoin they wished to buy on an exchange.

The only exception to this rule would be in colder places of the world when heat is needed and would otherwise need to be purchased (via a space heater/furnace)
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October 07, 2014, 06:48:59 AM
 #22

If Bitcoin ever gets enough usage that the 7 TPS transaction rate is reached, fees will probably go up.  Miners have no incentive to adopt a larger block size, and every incentive to raise fees if they can.
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October 07, 2014, 07:12:37 AM
 #23

Fees have to rise when block reward falls. Miners need incentives to mine. I like the idea of tiered fees. Example 0.001 for next block confirmations, and 0.0001 for 10 blocks and 0.00001 for 48 hours.

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Battareus
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October 07, 2014, 07:55:42 AM
 #24

I can't understand, why miners stop mining. If they sells asics, other man become miner. Difficulty never go down.
Higher fees not recover situation.
Dead of the bitcoin become fast, likely noprofitable fork.
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October 07, 2014, 08:32:40 AM
 #25

I can't understand, why miners stop mining. If they sells asics, other man become miner. Difficulty never go down.
Higher fees not recover situation.
Dead of the bitcoin become fast, likely noprofitable fork.
Is it you, Yoda?

Fees have to rise when block reward falls. Miners need incentives to mine. I like the idea of tiered fees. Example 0.001 for next block confirmations, and 0.0001 for 10 blocks and 0.00001 for 48 hours.
The block reward is currently enough incentive for mining and that won't change that fast.
Also, if I wanted 48 hours for a confirmation, I could use the old banking system ...

https://forum.bitcoin.com/
New censorship-free forum by Roger Ver. Try it out.
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October 07, 2014, 10:04:21 AM
 #26

Also, if I wanted 48 hours for a confirmation, I could use the old banking system ...

If you are grouping small change from a few of your addresses to another, low priority at low fee could be useful.

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bornil267645
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October 07, 2014, 11:40:58 AM
 #27

All this chit-chat is making me wonder about hopes of Bitcoin community survival.cause this is the types of talks that creates doubts in users mind.

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October 07, 2014, 11:58:01 AM
 #28

miners dont just make coins to sell to then pay electric companies.

i wont repeat myself as this keeps being discussed at length across many topics. so ill paste my response

miners are HOARDING not selling. the reason:
if i had $10million and wanted bitcoin. i cant simply throw it into a crappy exchange and buy coins(amlkyc flags and alerts will go mad). so i buy rigs and pay my electric with the $10mill. and keep the coins.

anyone selling bitcoins after mining are dumb, and definitely not bitcoin investors.. infact you should treat them as electric company investors as the end result is no bitcoins, no fiat. and only a piece of paper that says they paid a large amount of money to an electric company.

so if your one of these people cashing out over 50% of your hoard... slap yourself with a wet fish and change your mindset

for miners. out of the 3600 coins produced a day, estimates are that only 600 is cashed out to fiat. the rest is hoarded. and of that 600 cashed out very little of it is done on the public crappy exchanges.
example of 2 separate miners on different block rewards
https://blockchain.info/address/19vvtxUpbidB8MT5CsSYYTBEjMRnowSZj4
~6000 coins earned from mining
~5000 coins NOT SPENT

https://blockchain.info/address/1GcF7j3YH8Qs8hvNEe7zbrQZftMU6sRLfu
~5000 coins earned from mining
~3500 coins not spent

anyome mining this month with the mindset to sell out to pay this months fiat lifestyle, will lose out.. and to be honest, thy dont understand bitcoin, thus im half glad that they will give up. as for the smart ones. they will continue
Very interesting perspective.

OP, your scenario assumes Bitcoin has a low future price.  I believe that Bitcoin will either fail or have a very high price


 
 
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williamj2543
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October 07, 2014, 01:00:01 PM
 #29

We are just having some hard times, and if bitcoin is to succeed it has to survive through these times.

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Q7
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October 07, 2014, 01:35:04 PM
 #30

miners dont just make coins to sell to then pay electric companies.

i wont repeat myself as this keeps being discussed at length across many topics. so ill paste my response

miners are HOARDING not selling. the reason:
if i had $10million and wanted bitcoin. i cant simply throw it into a crappy exchange and buy coins(amlkyc flags and alerts will go mad). so i buy rigs and pay my electric with the $10mill. and keep the coins.

anyone selling bitcoins after mining are dumb, and definitely not bitcoin investors.. infact you should treat them as electric company investors as the end result is no bitcoins, no fiat. and only a piece of paper that says they paid a large amount of money to an electric company.

so if your one of these people cashing out over 50% of your hoard... slap yourself with a wet fish and change your mindset

for miners. out of the 3600 coins produced a day, estimates are that only 600 is cashed out to fiat. the rest is hoarded. and of that 600 cashed out very little of it is done on the public crappy exchanges.
example of 2 separate miners on different block rewards
https://blockchain.info/address/19vvtxUpbidB8MT5CsSYYTBEjMRnowSZj4
~6000 coins earned from mining
~5000 coins NOT SPENT

https://blockchain.info/address/1GcF7j3YH8Qs8hvNEe7zbrQZftMU6sRLfu
~5000 coins earned from mining
~3500 coins not spent

anyome mining this month with the mindset to sell out to pay this months fiat lifestyle, will lose out.. and to be honest, thy dont understand bitcoin, thus im half glad that they will give up. as for the smart ones. they will continue

How can you be so sure? Just few common indicators might not  give you the whole picture. Let's analyze the hash rate.

https://blockchain.info/charts/hash-rate?timespan=1year&showDataPoints=false&daysAverageString=1&show_header=true&scale=0&address=

while things are moving up, price is heading the other direction. I believe most people are underestimating actual price of btc mining in certain asian countries. Mining is just like any other business venture, only those who know how to lower the production cost have the advantages. That means those who cannot compete will get squeezed out making those that remain surviving will be getting larger share of the pie due to less people mining. Perhaps should work on the actual mining cost to find out. Don't take the mining rig price seen in ebay because that might be jacked out several times for profit. Instead take actual rig cost at the production. I'm not going to count.

Oh yeah. On the hoarding... if i were the miner. I would sell all that stash, part of it to cover back operating cost and the rest to buy Alibaba shares  Grin at least that's higher chance to up the price with yearly potential return compared to bitcoin which pays zero interest  Grin

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