Bitcoin Forum
December 08, 2016, 12:13:38 AM *
News: Latest stable version of Bitcoin Core: 0.13.1  [Torrent].
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 7 8 9 »  All
  Print  
Author Topic: I'm leaving Bitcoin  (Read 47077 times)
faidsaid
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 43


View Profile
May 14, 2012, 01:22:01 AM
 #81

Good move to make the formal announcement, evidently not everyone gathered that you were moving on notwithstanding it was the obvious course. It's encouraging to hear that you have perspective and ambition beyond bitcoin, your talent merits it.

Anyone who doesn't like it should kiss your ass, you did well.

“There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
― John Rogers
1481156018
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1481156018

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1481156018
Reply with quote  #2

1481156018
Report to moderator
1481156018
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1481156018

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1481156018
Reply with quote  #2

1481156018
Report to moderator
1481156018
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1481156018

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1481156018
Reply with quote  #2

1481156018
Report to moderator
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1481156018
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1481156018

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1481156018
Reply with quote  #2

1481156018
Report to moderator
1481156018
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1481156018

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1481156018
Reply with quote  #2

1481156018
Report to moderator
1481156018
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1481156018

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1481156018
Reply with quote  #2

1481156018
Report to moderator
jgarzik
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1470


View Profile
May 14, 2012, 01:23:45 AM
 #82

Good luck-- I share your view that coming up with better ways of playing zero-sum games is not the way to make the world a better place.

The fact that this statement is coming from the 'lead developer' of Bitcoin does NOT make me feel good about the future of the Bitcoin project. Shows a complete ignorance of markets and economics. Epic epic epic fail. Sad

The fact that Zhou thinks that such markets are a 'zero sum game' as well means that it is a good thing he is getting out. He doesn't even understand what he created. Sad.

Personally I think the bitcoin economy would be useless if the only thing going on is currency exchange.

A healthy bitcoin economy includes vendors and customers, everyday commerce.


Jeff Garzik, bitcoin core dev team and BitPay engineer; opinions are my own, not my employer.
Donations / tip jar: 1BrufViLKnSWtuWGkryPsKsxonV2NQ7Tcj
the joint
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1792



View Profile
May 14, 2012, 01:25:17 AM
 #83

I wish you the best, Zhou.

faidsaid
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 43


View Profile
May 14, 2012, 01:40:28 AM
 #84

Good luck-- I share your view that coming up with better ways of playing zero-sum games is not the way to make the world a better place.

The fact that this statement is coming from the 'lead developer' of Bitcoin does NOT make me feel good about the future of the Bitcoin project. Shows a complete ignorance of markets and economics. Epic epic epic fail. Sad

The fact that Zhou thinks that such markets are a 'zero sum game'  as well means that it is a good thing he is getting out. He doesn't even understand what he created. Sad.
Bitcoin meets reality, there's plenty of it going around. Nothing particularly startling about the inevitable.

“There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
― John Rogers
flatfly
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 938


View Profile
May 14, 2012, 01:56:29 AM
 #85

Tong, even though we've never talked before, and I've never used Bitcoinica (due to my current financial situation, but that's another story), I wish you the very best for the future. You're certainly making the right choice and I've been repeatedly impressed both by your ability to deliver and your values.   

1111127SpvabYpoeDoiz5L7QPkfiSh2Q. Only donate if you have a reason to.
mcdett
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 157



View Profile
May 14, 2012, 02:03:41 AM
 #86

I'm going to be a young entrepreneur

By all means you are an entrepreneur.  God Speed!
jixapori
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 46


View Profile
May 14, 2012, 03:57:55 AM
 #87

you are a wise man to have realized these things sooner rather than later, and you have earned my respect.

too many people have made their fortunes providing products or services that are objectively useless or worse, glad you do not intend to join them.
dissipate
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 289


View Profile
May 14, 2012, 04:41:19 AM
 #88

Good luck-- I share your view that coming up with better ways of playing zero-sum games is not the way to make the world a better place.

The fact that this statement is coming from the 'lead developer' of Bitcoin does NOT make me feel good about the future of the Bitcoin project. Shows a complete ignorance of markets and economics. Epic epic epic fail. Sad

The fact that Zhou thinks that such markets are a 'zero sum game' as well means that it is a good thing he is getting out. He doesn't even understand what he created. Sad.

Personally I think the bitcoin economy would be useless if the only thing going on is currency exchange.

A healthy bitcoin economy includes vendors and customers, everyday commerce.



I am not sure how there could even be a situation where the only thing going on was currency exchange. Even in the earliest days of Bitcoin when it wasn't being used for much of anything at all, people were still speculating on its future potential value. That is legitimate speculation and that is more than just currency exchange. I myself realized the potential value of Bitcoin early on and threw some money in at $1.44, saw it rocket it up to $30 and crash back down. I still have my original coins because I think Bitcoin has even more potential in the future.

But to go even further, even just straight up gambling is not a zero sum game. People gamble for a variety of reasons, but the bottom line is, they feel that on any given 'roll of the dice', risking their money at that point in time is worth it. Hence, even if Bitcoinica was straight up gambling (but I doubt that it was), it still wasn't a 'zero sum game' because the people involved thought that it was providing value to them at the particular time that they decided to use it.

As for a 'healthy' economy, I would personally like to see a lot of those things, but maybe the economy won't include much of those things. Perhaps Bitcoin will turn into some digital form of gold hoarding where people just buy them up to stash away some hidden wealth for a period of time. Who knows? In any event, no aspect of the Bitcoin economy, or really any economy is a 'zero sum game' as far as I can tell. People derive value from all kinds of crazy places, and if they are happy, that has all kinds of positive secondary effects.
zhoutong
VIP
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 490


View Profile WWW
May 14, 2012, 05:01:22 AM
 #89

Two BTWs:

1. Besides the 1,000 BTC coin, I'm also keeping 130 shares of GIGAMINING and 160 shares of BITBOND on GLBSE to support Bitcoin mining. I'm not planning to cash out any time soon.

2. I'm still waiting for my Bitcoin magazine.

Founder of NameTerrific (https://www.nameterrific.com/). Co-founder of CoinJar (https://coinjar.io/)

Donations for my future Bitcoin projects: 19Uk3tiD5XkBcmHyQYhJxp9QHoub7RosVb
terrytibbs
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 560



View Profile
May 14, 2012, 05:02:03 AM
 #90

2. I'm still waiting for my Bitcoin magazine.
lol
Seal
Donator
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 833


View Profile WWW
May 14, 2012, 05:03:04 AM
 #91

In November, an investor approached me to acquire Bitcoinica. Due to regulatory concerns, I agreed to the deal and signed the agreement. Bitcoinica was sold for a good price. However, since the investor is unable to arrange for a replacement team, I continued to become the sole operator until Team Intersango took over two weeks ago. The investor let me keep all profits until late January, the official handover time. After handover, he continued to offer generous salary and performance bonus every month.

Did you not retain any share in bitcoinica? It would have been a useful way of keeping an interest in the company while enabling you to detatch from anything related to the daily running of it.

benjamindees
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1288


View Profile
May 14, 2012, 05:07:10 AM
 #92

I failed at one thing though, that is generating value for the society. Bitcoinica did create a place for people to trade more efficiently and provide liquidity to the market. However, speculation is a zero-sum game (or negative-sum, strictly saying). I know there can be many justifications for Bitcoinica's value, but all of them are against my intuition and values.

Good luck-- I share your view that coming up with better ways of playing zero-sum games is not the way to make the world a better place.

I have to say, this really is total fail.

Voluntary trade is absolutely not a zero-sum game.  Everyone benefits.  And, in the real economy, efficient and complex trade requires price stability, something that Bitcoin didn't have before Bitcoinica.  Stabilizing the Bitcoin price is a huge accomplishment.  It builds a foundation for the creation of immense value going forward.  I have no doubt that this will become a textbook example of speculation working for the benefit of an entire economy, as it should in a truly free market.  I almost can't even imagine what would make you think otherwise.

It's amazing to me the number of people in this community who joined what Satoshi billed as a "decentralized currency," only to completely fail to understand what that meant.

This isn't an investment.  It isn't a payment processing network.  It isn't a ponzi scheme.  It's an economy.  And, granted, right now it's an economy built on drugs and knick-knacks and web services.  That's okay.  Rome wasn't built in a day.  Tides turn slowly.  There are milestones that must be reached before Bitcoin can become what it was intended to be.  And, granted, Bitcoin is different things to different people.  That's fine too.  But, really, I would expect a much broader view to be expressed by some of the people most responsible for Bitcoin's success.

Because that's what I see in the Bitcoin economy right now, success.  It might not feel like it.  The price isn't shooting up spectacularly.  Mining is more difficult than it used to be.  There is little innovative new software development.  Bitcoin services are under attack.  But believe me, it's there.  It's in the 10,000 BTC loan recently fulfilled.  It's in the solidly stable value despite 30%+ inflation.  It's in the immense network difficulty and the delivery of FPGA mining cards.  It's in the total resiliency of Bitcoin in the face of immense public and government scrutiny, while still challenging an immoral and corrupt fiat currency regime that has failed the world.

Bitcoin is clearly an idea whose time has come.  I know that backlash is growing.  I know that obstacles remain.  But don't give up before seeing it happen.  Every day that Bitcoin exists, it succeeds.

Civil Liberty Through Complex Mathematics
zhoutong
VIP
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 490


View Profile WWW
May 14, 2012, 05:13:12 AM
 #93

In November, an investor approached me to acquire Bitcoinica. Due to regulatory concerns, I agreed to the deal and signed the agreement. Bitcoinica was sold for a good price. However, since the investor is unable to arrange for a replacement team, I continued to become the sole operator until Team Intersango took over two weeks ago. The investor let me keep all profits until late January, the official handover time. After handover, he continued to offer generous salary and performance bonus every month.

Did you not retain any share in bitcoinica? It would have been a useful way of keeping an interest in the company while enabling you to detatch from anything related to the daily running of it.

I could choose to but I didn't. There is regulatory risk and I want to avoid it as much as possible.

Founder of NameTerrific (https://www.nameterrific.com/). Co-founder of CoinJar (https://coinjar.io/)

Donations for my future Bitcoin projects: 19Uk3tiD5XkBcmHyQYhJxp9QHoub7RosVb
stick_theman
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 372


View Profile
May 14, 2012, 05:30:22 AM
 #94

I could choose to but I didn't. There is regulatory risk and I want to avoid it as much as possible.

Don't forget to check in with us in the future and tell us how much poons you are getting in university!! ahha.  Smart kid.
muyuu
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 924



View Profile
May 14, 2012, 06:13:05 AM
 #95

In November, an investor approached me to acquire Bitcoinica. Due to regulatory concerns, I agreed to the deal and signed the agreement. Bitcoinica was sold for a good price. However, since the investor is unable to arrange for a replacement team, I continued to become the sole operator until Team Intersango took over two weeks ago. The investor let me keep all profits until late January, the official handover time. After handover, he continued to offer generous salary and performance bonus every month.

Did you not retain any share in bitcoinica? It would have been a useful way of keeping an interest in the company while enabling you to detatch from anything related to the daily running of it.

I could choose to but I didn't. There is regulatory risk and I want to avoid it as much as possible.


That's wise and understandable but if I were an investor I'd be worried about that. Surprised you managed to get a good deal anyway. Probably some people in the new board feel duped right now.

OTOH, once waters settle and there is a new implementation made and running with you completely out of the picture, if someone claims damages for any decision or failure that happened during your tenure, the new owners won't have any qualms in shifting blame towards you. That's the downside of having no long-term involvement. So be sure to settle any complaint from these times before you are completely out of the picture, that's my personal advice.

Two BTWs:

1. Besides the 1,000 BTC coin, I'm also keeping 130 shares of GIGAMINING and 160 shares of BITBOND on GLBSE to support Bitcoin mining. I'm not planning to cash out any time soon.

2. I'm still waiting for my Bitcoin magazine.

You're more invested in bitcoin than most people posting here, by far. You probably shouldn't mention you can afford to pay some non-trivial amount of damages, at least not yet. Let's say you may need to sell some of that to pay for your tenure? Wink

GPG ID: 7294199D - OTC ID: muyuu (470F97EB7294199D)
forum tea fund BTC 1Epv7KHbNjYzqYVhTCgXWYhGSkv7BuKGEU DOGE DF1eTJ2vsxjHpmmbKu9jpqsrg5uyQLWksM CAP F1MzvmmHwP2UhFq82NQT7qDU9NQ8oQbtkQ
caveden
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1106



View Profile
May 14, 2012, 07:53:27 AM
 #96

I failed at one thing though, that is generating value for the society. Bitcoinica did create a place for people to trade more efficiently and provide liquidity to the market. However, speculation is a zero-sum game (or negative-sum, strictly saying).

You're wrong. You did create a lot of value with your platform, that's why you had good profits and a good buyer. It is not zero-sum.

It's a pity that you will not keep using your talents in the bitcoin economy, but I wish you the best. I believe you'll keep creating value, wherever you decide to work.

Good luck!

18rZYyWcafwD86xvLrfuxWG5xEMMWUtVkL
caveden
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1106



View Profile
May 14, 2012, 07:59:32 AM
 #97

Good luck-- I share your view that coming up with better ways of playing zero-sum games is not the way to make the world a better place.

The fact that this statement is coming from the 'lead developer' of Bitcoin does NOT make me feel good about the future of the Bitcoin project.

Relax. There are others with strong economic basis that either are part of the team, or follow it closely. Theymos and Stefan Thomas are two names that I remember by heart, and probably there are others.
No developer in the team would be able to change the economic basis of bitcoin "at will", without provoking lots of noise at least.

18rZYyWcafwD86xvLrfuxWG5xEMMWUtVkL
Boussac
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1173


e-ducat.fr


View Profile WWW
May 14, 2012, 08:09:00 AM
 #98

Bitcoinica did create a place for people to trade more efficiently and provide liquidity to the market. However, speculation is a zero-sum game (or negative-sum, strictly saying). I know there can be many justifications for Bitcoinica's value, but all of them are against my intuition and values.

This and your achievements so far tell me that you can accomplish great things in your life. i wish you the best.

Boussac
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1173


e-ducat.fr


View Profile WWW
May 14, 2012, 08:15:08 AM
 #99

Good luck-- I share your view that coming up with better ways of playing zero-sum games is not the way to make the world a better place.

The fact that this statement is coming from the 'lead developer' of Bitcoin does NOT make me feel good about the future of the Bitcoin project. Shows a complete ignorance of markets and economics. Epic epic epic fail. Sad

The fact that Zhou thinks that such markets are a 'zero sum game' as well means that it is a good thing he is getting out. He doesn't even understand what he created. Sad.

@dissipate
Pretty arrogant post.
To the "expert": margin trading = selling something you do not own

unclescrooge
aka Raphy
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 868


View Profile
May 14, 2012, 08:18:40 AM
 #100

To the "expert": margin trading = selling something you do not own

So why the losses that can occur are yours?

Pages: « 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 7 8 9 »  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!