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brendio
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July 04, 2012, 03:58:42 PM
 #61

It's always a bad idea to first buy and then think
Yes. Investors need to learn this. All the information was there at the beginning to help investors form their own valuations. My initial bids when this asset launched were out bid so I missed out, but I was not perturbed. It is a mistake to overpay, even for a good asset.

That said, I don't think this asset is dead yet.

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July 04, 2012, 04:38:33 PM
 #62

We discussed several option from closing down PPT to increasing the insurance fund to increasing the number of bonds sold per week to 6,000.

But not changing the auction time to more Euro-friendly direction?

I think you might find those additional investors with right risk preference simply by adjusting the auction time. IMO insured bonds are your strenght, not weakness. Unfortunately I can't show it to you fully until the auction is changed to be held at a more reasonable time. Which is kinda sad, cos I just found your great products and I like your professional touch.
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July 04, 2012, 09:48:40 PM
 #63

I've just answered a pm and then saw the post and thought it might be worth repeating the bulk of the contents here

[... long technical explanation ...]

Ok, I'm the one you answered PM and I must admit that my skills are not sufficient to fully follow your answer you also posted here.

Being confused I was asking you a simple question: what happens to PPT.DIV shares if your cartel decides to stop operation next week, but not because Pirate defaults but (let's say) you all had better things to do? Right now it seems that shares are getting worthless, while you cartel members can grab your coins back from the risk fund and profit from the shares you all sold to the public.

I hoped for something easy to understand, like: Yes/no, if we stop, you are/aren't fu**ed. Instead, you responded long, but missed to clarify.

You wrote
Quote
The notion of just shutting up shop (ceasing) is not so straight forward because we have a duty to protect the interests of PPT.DIV holders...
but nowhere in the contract it is written that you have to. Not implying this is what you planned to do, but as soon as all 9000 shares are sold to the public (or say 8100), what prevents you to cease PPT operation, start PPT2, and issue PPT2.DIV? Other than we all know you are just nice guys Wink


Hi Zefir - sorry for making a long-winded pm in response.  Let me try with the short version - you're not completely screwed (and that's not supposed to be financial advice).

Realistically, the change in the pass-through business and competition changed the value of the DIV shares several weeks ago and that is reflected in the recent average trade prices around 0.6 (5-day average).  We have looked at several different options to retain value based on the original premise including issuing more, issuing uninsured and running different auctions for different time-zones.  (cedus - still nothing preventing you putting in bids at a time that suits you given the low prices and thin bid volumes).

As for the
Quote
The notion of just shutting up shop (ceasing) is not so straight forward because we have a duty to protect the interests of PPT.DIV holders...
, that's not written in the contract, and nor should it need to be.  Simple principles of company law require Directors to uphold their fiduciary duties to stakeholders.  Plus,  screwing over shareholders is an incredibly stupid thing for an issuer to do and would do considerable damage to the other business that we (the PPT issuers) are involved in.

As for future value - that's still an unknown. 
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July 04, 2012, 10:26:37 PM
 #64

Thanks for clarification, Patrick.

Really didn't want to imply any complains - already admitted that I'm to blame for not reading the contract carefully enough.

Voted for the motion and am quite confident that this will remain a highly profitable investment.


Cheers!

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July 05, 2012, 07:50:56 AM
 #65

So, when PPT shuts down...

With an insurance fund of ~3800 BTC, and 9000 PPT.DIV bonds, assuming that PPT could withdraw their entire principle from Pirate without default, each PPT.DIV bondholder would be looking at a ~0.42 BTC buyback. Can you confirm this is correct?

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July 05, 2012, 08:24:56 AM
 #66

So, when PPT shuts down...

With an insurance fund of ~3800 BTC, and 9000 PPT.DIV bonds, assuming that PPT could withdraw their entire principle from Pirate without default, each PPT.DIV bondholder would be looking at a ~0.42 BTC buyback. Can you confirm this is correct?

No.

PPT.DIV gets profit.  The insurance fund is not a generated profit, but funds contributed from the six founders.

Profit is net income after expenses/costs, not gross.
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July 06, 2012, 03:10:13 AM
 #67

In response to some sensible questions from PPT.DIV holders, and some quite stupid and ill informed comments by some others, I have decided to make a stand in the market for ALL PPT.DIV shares at or around 0.25   I have 6,250 bids currently placed.  This represents at least three months dividends based on 0.02/share which is current, and does not include any further drop which I calculated today might see it fall to 0.01/share per week.  This price also reflects the fact that a few months of dividends has already passed.
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July 06, 2012, 03:23:01 AM
 #68

Hey bro,
Quote
May 04, 2012, 04:32:28 AM
How'd you get a referral again?
PatrickHarnett
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July 06, 2012, 04:08:11 AM
 #69

Hey bro,
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May 04, 2012, 04:32:28 AM
How'd you get a referral again?

They're in cereal boxes.
piotr_n
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July 06, 2012, 09:41:25 AM
 #70

In response to some sensible questions from PPT.DIV holders, and some quite stupid and ill informed comments by some others, I have decided to make a stand in the market for ALL PPT.DIV shares at or around 0.25
Considering that you sold them just a few weeks ago at 1.00 (or maybe even more), buying them back at 0.25 after you've just voted to shut down the business is extremely generous from you Tongue

Just make sure to let us know which enterprise you are going to start next, so we could buy some other, great, brand new shares from you. Smiley

Check out gocoin - my original project of a bitcoin client written in Go, with some unique features.
PGP fingerprint: AB9E A551 E262 A87A 13BB  9059 1BE7 B545 CDF3 FD0E
piotr_n
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July 06, 2012, 12:18:28 PM
 #71

Please let me know what enterprise(s) you have started so I can return the favor and go visit your thread(s) and give you my valuable opinions on them.
I make up my living by doing a honest work, not by selling illusions to unconscious suckers.

Check out gocoin - my original project of a bitcoin client written in Go, with some unique features.
PGP fingerprint: AB9E A551 E262 A87A 13BB  9059 1BE7 B545 CDF3 FD0E
piotr_n
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July 06, 2012, 12:31:50 PM
 #72

Please let me know what enterprise(s) you have started so I can return the favor and go visit your thread(s) and give you my valuable opinions on them.
I make up my living by doing a honest work, not by selling illusions to unconscious suckers.
In other word you have not even tried to start any kind of BTC related business.  Thanks.
Well, I have some funds deposited at BS&T, so if you want I will be more than happy to provide you with the same kind of service as your business is giving.
You give me 1000 BTC every week and each time I return you 1240 after 4 weeks. Unless BS&T defaults - in such case I only give you back 25% from your total 4 week-span investments.
How about that?  Smiley

Check out gocoin - my original project of a bitcoin client written in Go, with some unique features.
PGP fingerprint: AB9E A551 E262 A87A 13BB  9059 1BE7 B545 CDF3 FD0E
piotr_n
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July 06, 2012, 12:44:33 PM
 #73

Our insurance fund is not deposited at BS&T. 
I never said that I was going to deposit your first 1000 BTC at BS&T.
I was only going to use it to insure my current 1000 BTC deposit...
This way when Pirat runs away with my money, I will have your 1000 BTC, from which I will give you 310 BTC while keeping remaining 690 BTC for myself...
If Pirate doesn't run away with the money, I will just give you back 1240, keeping my initial 1000 BTC and the 70+ BTC extra from the weekly compounded interests.
Either way I win: in fist case I get a free 69% insurance, in second case I get 7% monthly interest.
Now, if I start cycling it, accepting a new 1000 BTC each new week, while putting the previous one into BS&T - it will eventually become 100% insurance for my deposit, while still holding it at 7% monthly...

Check out gocoin - my original project of a bitcoin client written in Go, with some unique features.
PGP fingerprint: AB9E A551 E262 A87A 13BB  9059 1BE7 B545 CDF3 FD0E
piotr_n
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July 06, 2012, 12:57:05 PM
 #74

Our insurance fund is not deposited at BS&T. 
I never said that I was going to deposit your first 1000 BTC at BS&T.
I was only going to use it to insure my 1000 BTC deposit...
This way when Pirat runs away with my money, I will have your 1000 BTC, from which I will give you 310 BTC while keeping remaining 690 BTC for myself...
If Pirate doesn't run away with the money, I will just give you back 1240, keeping my initial 1000 BTC and the 70+ BTC extra from the weekly compounded interests.
Either way I win: in fist case I get a free 69% insurance, in second case I get 7% monthly interest.
Now, if I start cycling it, accepting a new 1000 BTC each new week, while putting the previous one into BS&T - it will eventually become 100% insurance for my deposit, while still holding it at 7% monthly...
Sounds like a plan.  See if there is a market for your service.  Let us know if you need any help.
As I said: I'm not going to delude unconscious suckers, because I just find it dishonest.

I offered it to you, a conscious businessman, but you obviously are not going to be one of my customers, since you understand very well that this schema is only benefiting me at your cost.
You understand very well that the 25% insurance which I'm "giving you for free" doesn't cost me anything and the risk is still all yours...

Check out gocoin - my original project of a bitcoin client written in Go, with some unique features.
PGP fingerprint: AB9E A551 E262 A87A 13BB  9059 1BE7 B545 CDF3 FD0E
PatrickHarnett
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July 06, 2012, 09:59:33 PM
 #75

In response to some sensible questions from PPT.DIV holders, and some quite stupid and ill informed comments by some others, I have decided to make a stand in the market for ALL PPT.DIV shares at or around 0.25
Considering that you sold them just a few weeks ago at 1.00 (or maybe even more), buying them back at 0.25 after you've just voted to shut down the business is extremely generous from you Tongue

Just make sure to let us know which enterprise you are going to start next, so we could buy some other, great, brand new shares from you. Smiley

I am interested at the number of lies you managed to squash into that post.

1: I did not sell my PPT.DIV shares a few weeks ago.  Over the past few weeks I have purchased and sold shares on my own account.
2: Those I have sold were at an average price much lower than 1.00 and my decision to sell was based on information fully publicly available.
3: The vote was not to shut down the PPT.x offerings, but to change the floor price.

It would appear you wish to ignore the facts that are available and slander various people along the way.
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July 07, 2012, 03:09:42 AM
 #76

Our insurance fund is not deposited at BS&T. 
I never said that I was going to deposit your first 1000 BTC at BS&T.
I was only going to use it to insure my current 1000 BTC deposit...
This way when Pirat runs away with my money, I will have your 1000 BTC, from which I will give you 310 BTC while keeping remaining 690 BTC for myself...
If Pirate doesn't run away with the money, I will just give you back 1240, keeping my initial 1000 BTC and the 70+ BTC extra from the weekly compounded interests.
Either way I win: in fist case I get a free 69% insurance, in second case I get 7% monthly interest.
Now, if I start cycling it, accepting a new 1000 BTC each new week, while putting the previous one into BS&T - it will eventually become 100% insurance for my deposit, while still holding it at 7% monthly...
You are not considering opportunity cost. You 69% insurance is not free. It comes at the cost of lower earnings, i.e., getting only 7% every four weeks instead of 31%.

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July 07, 2012, 08:58:55 AM
 #77

Our insurance fund is not deposited at BS&T. 
I never said that I was going to deposit your first 1000 BTC at BS&T.
I was only going to use it to insure my current 1000 BTC deposit...
This way when Pirat runs away with my money, I will have your 1000 BTC, from which I will give you 310 BTC while keeping remaining 690 BTC for myself...
If Pirate doesn't run away with the money, I will just give you back 1240, keeping my initial 1000 BTC and the 70+ BTC extra from the weekly compounded interests.
Either way I win: in fist case I get a free 69% insurance, in second case I get 7% monthly interest.
Now, if I start cycling it, accepting a new 1000 BTC each new week, while putting the previous one into BS&T - it will eventually become 100% insurance for my deposit, while still holding it at 7% monthly...
You are not considering opportunity cost. You 69% insurance is not free. It comes at the cost of lower earnings, i.e., getting only 7% every four weeks instead of 31%.
Of course 7% is less than 31%, but if you can get it 100% insured by the buyers of the cycling bonds (which PPT has already managed to do), then it is a great 7%/month, risk-free business, isn't it?
And I don't have a problem with it.
What I do have a problem with is the propaganda campaign aimed to delude more suckers into believing that they get a "free insurance", because the PPT holders are generously giving it to them risking own capital... Yeah, sure - just how stupid one needs to be to buy it? Smiley
Shame on them, for selling lies like that, instead of just admitting the truth.

Check out gocoin - my original project of a bitcoin client written in Go, with some unique features.
PGP fingerprint: AB9E A551 E262 A87A 13BB  9059 1BE7 B545 CDF3 FD0E
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July 07, 2012, 05:37:23 PM
 #78

The insurance is not free and we never said it was free - our customers pay for the insurance.  You have made your point in all of our threads, several times, we get it.
That's great. I'm glad that after 2 days we finally got to some common conclusion.

I'm done with this topic, like I was done with it already 2 days ago, after making my point the first time.
Unless someone else wants so express his opinion about how stupid and misinforming I am? In which case I am happy to continue with him...
Because no matter how many times I have made my point, don't expect me to sit quiet while I am being insulted by some moron or a crook.

Check out gocoin - my original project of a bitcoin client written in Go, with some unique features.
PGP fingerprint: AB9E A551 E262 A87A 13BB  9059 1BE7 B545 CDF3 FD0E
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July 16, 2012, 07:50:05 PM
 #79

Anyone know why there was only 8999 shares of PPT.DIV payed today?
Code:
Payment date | Total paid | Shares paid | Payment per share
2012-05-21 07:56 142.8984 9000 0.0158776
2012-05-28 08:33 260.34921 9000 0.02892769
2012-06-04 09:01 239.38182 9000 0.02659798
2012-06-11 13:11 383.01264 9000 0.04255696
2012-06-18 07:22 1065.56859 9000 0.11839651
2012-06-25 20:13 221.33925 9000 0.02459325
2012-07-02 12:07 331.92765 9000 0.03688085
2012-07-09 08:43 253.75932 9000 0.02819548
2012-07-16 08:59 201.67010972 8999 0.02241028
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July 17, 2012, 01:31:37 AM
 #80

When I paid the dividends I noticed the bug and reported it to GLBSE.

Darn bitcoiners can see solutions. Stop being so good at maths.

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