.

[MrTeal]

Would you guys be willing to go through the accounting on one of the previous sales to show how you arrive at the exact value for the dividends? I keep track of them after the sale in a spreadsheet, but I can never get the numbers to quite match up and unmatching numbers bug me.

[1713852423]

1713852423

[1713852423]

1713852423

[1713852423]

1713852423

[MrTeal]

Would you guys be willing to go through the accounting on one of the previous sales to show how you arrive at the exact value for the dividends? I keep track of them after the sale in a spreadsheet, but I can never get the numbers to quite match up and unmatching numbers bug me.

The best/most detailed explanation is given here:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=76594.msg1018663#msg1018663

You should be able to get very close with this.  The only thing you do not know is the expenses.  Note that the fees paid to GLBSE are 0.5% of the sale.  Also, in the earlier bonds we had other expenses, for example the five listing fees, etc.

I think the issue might actually be the GLBSE fee. Previously you paid the 0.5% fee as the market taker, but if you only sell 1000 bonds in the initial offering at 2am and the other 2000 sit on the market, then you don't have to pay the fee, the buyer would have to cover it. I imagine it would make accounting a nightmare, but as long as they don't sit on the market too long it might actually increase the profits a little.

[Lucidize]

Anyone know why there was only 8999 shares of PPT.DIV payed today?

Code:

Payment date 	| 	Total paid | 	Shares paid | 	Payment per share
2012-05-21 07:56	142.8984	9000		0.0158776
2012-05-28 08:33	260.34921	9000		0.02892769
2012-06-04 09:01	239.38182	9000		0.02659798
2012-06-11 13:11	383.01264	9000		0.04255696
2012-06-18 07:22	1065.56859	9000		0.11839651
2012-06-25 20:13	221.33925	9000		0.02459325
2012-07-02 12:07	331.92765	9000		0.03688085
2012-07-09 08:43	253.75932	9000		0.02819548
2012-07-16 08:59	201.67010972	8999		0.02241028

Yes I think it's my fault. I have lost a PPT.DIV in the system. I had someone send a test amount (just 1) and followed the transfer instruction wrong. Anyway, I still haven't got it returned to my account yet. Not heard back from Nefario about it either, but I have reported it twice.

[Nefario]

This has turned out to be a compound bug, when an asset is sent incorrectly to another account (this only happens when sending to an asset issuers account) it's put into an account without any owner, kind of in nomans land. It's an obscure bug that has effected two people thus far, annoying but not fatal (no one loses anything).

When the buyback happened the amount was for the full number of shares but only the full number -1 (the share in nomansland) could be paid resulting in the payment error.

I'll be getting the "lost" asset returned in the morning and they'll get the dividend they missed as a result of this.

Nefario.

[Nefario]

This has been solved, and the user has been compensated the dividend they missed.

Nefario.

[MrTeal]

I think the issue might actually be the GLBSE fee. Previously you paid the 0.5% fee as the market taker, but if you only sell 1000 bonds in the initial offering at 2am and the other 2000 sit on the market, then you don't have to pay the fee, the buyer would have to cover it. I imagine it would make accounting a nightmare, but as long as they don't sit on the market too long it might actually increase the profits a little.

Yes, this is true.  It is to the customer's advantage to buy at the auction/sale time (we pay the fees).  It is to our advantage if they wait and buy them from us after the auction/sale time (they pay the fees).  So when calculating our expenses you would need to take that into account.

How do you handle the bonds not selling immediately in terms of reduced income from Pirate? This is from the main PPT thread.

To tell you all the truth I have not read anything that piotr_n has written for a long time but in order to hopefully eventually stop all this unneeded posting about what you think we may or may not do I will tell you exactly what we actually do:

0) The PPT bond system was created to do two things:  a) allow small and very small investors access to most of the full BS&T top rate and b) make a profit for us.  I also designed the system with one other design constraint:  minimize the amount of weekly cash flow in and out of our BS&T account.  In all three regards the system has been a great success.  On the third point we have only a very small, usually less than 100 BTC flow in or out of our BS&T account every week.
...
2) Every week we sell 3000 bonds.  Per contract we deposit 1.00 BTC per bond sold (3000 x 1 = 3000 BTC) into our BS&T account so that at the end of 27 days and 22 hours we will have enough to pay the interest on the bonds to the bond holders.  Now it is true that we make more on this BTC than we pay out.  This is called income. The income on this part of the operation is easily calculated by anyone.  On each bond sale we make exactly (1.07^4 - 1.28) * 3000 BTC = 92.38803 BTC per week on this part of the operation.

So please clarify this to your investors ...

The six of us cover the two hour time period out of our own pockets.  This is actually a pain for us and we have discussed moving the redemption to right after the sale, but it is one of the things our customers explicitly asked for so we will continue to do it.

It appears from the numbers that you are covering the gap out of your own pockets. A quick calculation for the last PPT.C shows
Profit = (3000*ASP - 0.005*Bonds Sold Immediately)*1.07^4 - 3000*1.28 = (3000*1.04153861 - 0.005*1462)*1.07^4 - 3000*1.28 = 246.152
Dividend = 246.152/9000 = 0.02735
That's only 0.16% off from the actual dividend, so I would assume my numbers are correct minus whatever other small expenses there are.

Are the six of you going to continue covering this expense out of your own pocket? My understanding is that Pirate calculates interest hourly, so the lost interest vs selling them immediately would be close to 25BTC for the PPT.C bond issue.

[MrTeal]

GLBSE GLBSE ‏@GLBSE

trade:531@0.35:PPT.DIV:1343944773 8m
trade:185@0.36:PPT.DIV:1343944773 8m

Wowzers, now that's a dip. And less than a week after I had to buy back the shares I borrowed to short.

[sebnow]

GLBSE GLBSE ‏@GLBSE

trade:531@0.35:PPT.DIV:1343944773 8m
trade:185@0.36:PPT.DIV:1343944773 8m

Wowzers, now that's a dip. And less than a week after I had to buy back the shares I borrowed to short.

With a dividend of 0.02681571, that's a 7.45-7.66% return, better than Pirate!

[PatrickHarnett]

GLBSE GLBSE ‏@GLBSE

trade:531@0.35:PPT.DIV:1343944773 8m
trade:185@0.36:PPT.DIV:1343944773 8m

Wowzers, now that's a dip. And less than a week after I had to buy back the shares I borrowed to short.

With a dividend of 0.02681571, that's a 7.45-7.66% return, better than Pirate!

Sshhhhhh

[wachtwoord]

Long term yield on equity investments is supposed to be lower then the bond market. For Patrick buying all the shares sounds like a good deal though as he has no counter party risk by being the other party + he knows when/if the business will stop (The DIV shares will be worth zero whenever the business stops and have no claims on any capital).

[PatrickHarnett]

Long term yield on equity investments is supposed to be lower then the bond market. For Patrick buying all the shares sounds like a good deal though as he has no counter party risk by being the other party + he knows when/if the business will stop (The DIV shares will be worth zero whenever the business stops and have no claims on any capital).

Actually, one of the reasons I purchased the PPT.x business was to make sure it continued.  I have no intention of shutting it down.

[sunnankar]

Actually, one of the reasons I purchased the PPT.x business was to make sure it continued.  I have no intention of shutting it down.

It is a nice little cash cow for the owners and serves a market need left open by the other passthroughs with the buyback at a particular date and time along with a decent amount of secured insurance.

[PatrickHarnett]

I would like to apologise for a hiccup in payment of the PPT.DIV dividends this week.  There was a miscommunication between myself and Burt resulting in a late payment.  Sorry.

[sunnankar]

Ok, which creative PPT.DIV founder decided to advise the Poway Unified School District on how to structure debt?

[PatrickHarnett]

Ok, which creative PPT.DIV founder decided to advise the Power Unified School District on how to structure debt?

lol - GFC Mk7 in the making (and again from one of the least solvent of counties in the USA).  Didn't the US learn anything from cheap credit (i.e. you have to pay it back)  Learn to live on the cash you have before borrowing.

In other news, I noticed PokerStars has been more sucessful than the entire Bitcoin economy with their ponzi - even after paying back 30% of their clients funds and $547M to the US government those not in jail walk away with millions.

The deal will end the saga of Full Tilt Poker, a company built by Ray Bitar with the help of poker champions like Chris “Jesus” Ferguson and Howard Lederer that Preet Bharara, the U.S. Attorney in Manhattan, has repeatedly said was a Ponzi scheme. But Bharara’s crackdown on the online poker industry continues, including against Isai Scheinberg, the founder of PokerStars, who has been indicted by Bharara for operating an illegal gambling business. Bitar, who recently returned to the U.S. from Ireland to face the criminal charges Bharara has filed against him, pleaded not guilty and is currently out on bail. Scheinberg is believed to be in the Isle of Man.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/nathanvardi/2012/07/31/pokerstars-will-pay-547-million-to-settle-u-s-government-charges-and-buy-full-tilt-poker/

[PatrickHarnett]

The PPT asset transfer is progressing, and I was a little late with the timestamp for this week's sale at 2:00:18 and completed at 2:00:21.

After fees, 3125.399366BTC was realised for deposit. 
Compounding should take this to 4096.761019 and after the 3840 buyback, leaves 256.7610186 for distribution (0.0285290 per PPT.DIV share)

[Nefario]

Asset transfer is complete.

[PatrickHarnett]

Code:

Weekly PPT.DIV dividend estimates and dividends actually paid:

 Div Date       Est. Income   Per Share  Actual Paid
---------    --------------  ----------  -----------
2-Jul-2012      331.92765318  0.0368808   0.03688085
9-Jul-2012      253.75925152  0.0281954   0.02819548
16-Jul-2012     201.67010138  0.0224077   0.02241028
23-Jul-2012     180.03268685  0.0200036   0.02000363
30-Jul-2012     158.64162409  0.0176268   0.01762685
6-Aug-2012      241.34142583  0.0268157   0.02681571
13-Aug-2012     245.7609183   0.0273067   0.0273067 
20-Aug-2012     246.6387730   0.0274043
27-Aug-2012     244.9328459   0.0272147
3-Sep-2012      256.7610186   0.0285290

The estimated running average of the latest four dividends is 0.028529 per week.

[PatrickHarnett]

New rates for BS&T have been announced and are expected to take effect in about a week.  This changes the profitability of PPT.x and PPT.DIV as the contract requires a full payment in the event of an interest rate drop.  Initial calculations suggest the change will cut the dividends as follows:

PPT.D   0BTC
PPT.E   43BTC
PPT.A   119BTC
PPT.B   193BTC

These numbers are approximate.

The next issue (PPT.C) will be at a new strike price to maintain a fair balance between the partially insured nature of the bonds and the new 5% underlying BS&T rate.

[MrTeal]

New rates for BS&T have been announced and are expected to take effect in about a week.  This changes the profitability of PPT.x and PPT.DIV as the contract requires a full payment in the event of an interest rate drop.  Initial calculations suggest the change will cut the dividends as follows:

PPT.D   0BTC
PPT.E   43BTC
PPT.A   119BTC
PPT.B   193BTC

These numbers are approximate.

The next issue (PPT.C) will be at a new strike price to maintain a fair balance between the partially insured nature of the bonds and the new 5% underlying BS&T rate.

Those will be payed in reverse order, correct? IE next Monday will pay 0.0214 per share, the week after will be 0.0132, then 0.0047 and 0.
Do you know what the new rates are and will the new strike price return normal dividends to the 0.025-0.03 range?