Will the government be destroyed?

[My Name Was Taken]

I think the government would just create new laws to effectively ban people from using it or make it so absurdly difficult that no one would want to. Kind of like passing the new concealed carry law in IL.  Yeah it's legal now, but it's illegal to carry into a business with a no guns allowed sign properly posted. Since the state is strong-arming many businesses into putting up the signs against their will, they are effectively banning something they didn't want passed in the first place.  This may not be the best example, but I have no doubt our government isn't coming up with a scheme to make bitcoin use illegal or impractical.

What if the business owner has a gun stashed behind the counter?  Is it legal for him to forbid others to conceal carry but allow him to have a shotgun behind the cash register?

Yes, it's his property, he can do with it as he pleases while telling you what you can do as long as you're on it. There is no hypocrisy here if that was your implication.

[1715282773]

1715282773

[1715282773]

1715282773

[dank]

Government cannot be destroyed.  Government is made up of a collection of individuals with their own desires and ambitions.  The people who run the taxation wing of the government often have little to do with the banking wing.

It just means if crypto currencies become mainstream then governments would continue collecting taxes, except it would be in digital currencies and not $Fiat.

So long as you believe in their power, they'll hold that power.

Stop fearing them and stop using money, and they have absolutely no power.  Their power is illusory.

[My Name Was Taken]

Government cannot be destroyed.  Government is made up of a collection of individuals with their own desires and ambitions.  The people who run the taxation wing of the government often have little to do with the banking wing.

It just means if crypto currencies become mainstream then governments would continue collecting taxes, except it would be in digital currencies and not $Fiat.

So long as you believe in their power, they'll hold that power.

Stop fearing them and stop using money, and they have absolutely no power.  Their power is illusory.

Stop using money. Steal stuff instead. -Dank

Someone should publish a book of your best quotes.

[duke1839]

We're pretty close in thinking on the broad ideas with variations in the specifics. Where you see a lack savages or marauders as evidence the state is not necessary, I see a lack of savages or marauders as evidence the state is effective at creating a society where there aren't any, and is therefore necessary. In fact, go over to the "investments" or "gambling" section of this forum and you'll see all the savages and marauders that exist when there is no state to prosecute them or hold them accountable for their thefts. They're running all kinds of scams or setting up legitimate looking 'gambling businesses' and then running off with the funds because there's no repercussions. There will always be savages and marauders.

I'll never be anti-state, I've explored that option at length with ancaps on reddit and it doesn't hold up for me. Minarchism is as far as I go.

States have existed since before recorded history.  To credit the state with our advanced society is to ignore the real causes.  These advances happen in spite of the state not because of it.  When Bitcoin is mainstream and commonplace 100 years from now and it has improved the wealth of the whole world and ended all wars there will still be people like you around that say "Thank God the government finally decided to end wars and lift everyone out of poverty! I don't know why it waited 10,000 years to do it but they finally got around to it!"

I would trust a bounty system to go after scammers, like Roger Ver has proposed, far more than a government entity.  Criminals thrive under government because the government needs criminals to justify its existence.  In a market based bounty system, you only get paid if you catch the scammer.  Cops get paid either way.  By saying you will never be anti-state is to acknowledge that you didn't reach your conclusions because of logic and reason.  If you were rational, you would say that you still see a need for a state but you are open to change your mind with good reasoned arguments.    

[dank]

Government cannot be destroyed.  Government is made up of a collection of individuals with their own desires and ambitions.  The people who run the taxation wing of the government often have little to do with the banking wing.

It just means if crypto currencies become mainstream then governments would continue collecting taxes, except it would be in digital currencies and not $Fiat.

So long as you believe in their power, they'll hold that power.

Stop fearing them and stop using money, and they have absolutely no power.  Their power is illusory.

Stop using money. Steal stuff instead. -Dank

Someone should publish a book of your best quotes.

I guess someone wasn't taught how to share as a kid.

Sharing benefits every party involved with the transaction.  You feel good for helping someone, they feel food for being helped, everyone wins.

People create things, not money.  Money only retards the progress.

[My Name Was Taken]

We're pretty close in thinking on the broad ideas with variations in the specifics. Where you see a lack savages or marauders as evidence the state is not necessary, I see a lack of savages or marauders as evidence the state is effective at creating a society where there aren't any, and is therefore necessary. In fact, go over to the "investments" or "gambling" section of this forum and you'll see all the savages and marauders that exist when there is no state to prosecute them or hold them accountable for their thefts. They're running all kinds of scams or setting up legitimate looking 'gambling businesses' and then running off with the funds because there's no repercussions. There will always be savages and marauders.

I'll never be anti-state, I've explored that option at length with ancaps on reddit and it doesn't hold up for me. Minarchism is as far as I go.

States have existed since before recorded history.  To credit the state with our advanced society is to ignore the real causes.  These advances happen in spite of the state not because of it.  When Bitcoin is mainstream and commonplace 100 years from now and it has improved the wealth of the whole world and ended all wars there will still be people like you around that say "Thank God the government finally decided to end wars and lift everyone out of poverty! I don't know why it waited 10,000 years to do it but they finally got around to it!"

I would trust a bounty system to go after scammers, like Roger Ver has proposed, far more than a government entity.  Criminals thrive under government because the government needs criminals to justify its existence.  In a market based bounty system, you only get paid if you catch the scammer.  Cops get paid either way.  By saying you will never be anti-state is to acknowledge that you didn't reach your conclusions because of logic and reason.  If you were rational, you would say that you still see a need for a state but you are open to change your mind with good reasoned arguments.    

Your first paragraph is clearly building strawmen so you can tear them down since you're ascribing sentiments to me I do not agree with. Not to mention you're pretty lofty notion of how bitcoin is going to solve all the wars and improve the wealth of the world. Your simplistic view of international politics and economics has made evident how fruitful trying to have a conversation with you would be, which is why this will be the only response you get from me.

Your example of a bounty system is based on arbitrary law, the reason Constitutional law became essential. To say that because I have arrived at the conclusion that predictable law is better than an arbitrary system is "irrational" is to be so full of your own bullshit that you can't fathom that people have a legitimate justification for their beliefs. I've heard the ancap arguments already. They have failed to convince me, that's why I'm a minarchist and not an ancap. There are no magic new arguments out there that will change the way I see human nature and how people will act in an ancap society. That's why I can conclude that I will never be anti-state.

Of course, I'll change my mind if that ever were to happen. But my belief I'll never be completely anti-state is based on much more sound reasoning than your belief that bitcoin is going to solve all the wars and make everyone wealthy.   

[My Name Was Taken]

Government cannot be destroyed.  Government is made up of a collection of individuals with their own desires and ambitions.  The people who run the taxation wing of the government often have little to do with the banking wing.

It just means if crypto currencies become mainstream then governments would continue collecting taxes, except it would be in digital currencies and not $Fiat.

So long as you believe in their power, they'll hold that power.

Stop fearing them and stop using money, and they have absolutely no power.  Their power is illusory.

Stop using money. Steal stuff instead. -Dank

Someone should publish a book of your best quotes.

I guess someone wasn't taught how to share as a kid.

Sharing benefits every party involved with the transaction.  You feel good for helping someone, they feel food for being helped, everyone wins.

People create things, not money.  Money only retards the progress.

Dank, money is just a representation of the value of the things people create. If you don't have any, it's because you're not making anything people value.

[cryptocoiner]

Society cannot run without goverment. If there is no goverment then there is a chaos, no civilization, no electricity, no economy, no internet, no bitcoin, etc =) 

Where's your proof? Most of what you describe is handled by private companies and citizens.

What about police? Army? Many other public services? You NEED someone in control, you need taxes to run things. C'mon men, society without goverment is a Somalia. Go there, you will see what complete freedom means.

[dank]

Government cannot be destroyed.  Government is made up of a collection of individuals with their own desires and ambitions.  The people who run the taxation wing of the government often have little to do with the banking wing.

It just means if crypto currencies become mainstream then governments would continue collecting taxes, except it would be in digital currencies and not $Fiat.

So long as you believe in their power, they'll hold that power.

Stop fearing them and stop using money, and they have absolutely no power.  Their power is illusory.

Stop using money. Steal stuff instead. -Dank

Someone should publish a book of your best quotes.

I guess someone wasn't taught how to share as a kid.

Sharing benefits every party involved with the transaction.  You feel good for helping someone, they feel food for being helped, everyone wins.

People create things, not money.  Money only retards the progress.

Dank, money is just a representation of the value of the things people create. If you don't have any, it's because you're not making anything people value.

Do you not see the money induced mind of greed kills many many people?

Remove the tool that gives them power and all you have to do is not fear them.  Death is nothing to fear.  When you realize this you can live freely.  Peace.

Stand for a purpose for the higher good of humanity and the universe will look after you.

The revolution will be a spiritual revolution.

[Robert Paulson]

Society cannot run without goverment. If there is no goverment then there is a chaos, no civilization, no electricity, no economy, no internet, no bitcoin, etc =) 

Where's your proof? Most of what you describe is handled by private companies and citizens.

What about police? Army? Many other public services? You NEED someone in control, you need taxes to run things. C'mon men, society without goverment is a Somalia. Go there, you will see what complete freedom means.

that's such nonsense.
the government is nothing but a group of people, you have been indoctrinated since childhood that only that special group of people can be trusted to provide security services and all the other services they currently provide as an inefficient monopoly.

Somalia didn't have a central government only between the early 90's and early 2000's, in which time their economy actually started to recover.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Somalia

Unlike the pre-civil war period when most services and the industrial sector were government-run, there has been substantial, albeit unmeasured, private investment in commercial activities; this has been largely financed by the Somali diaspora, and includes trade and marketing, money transfer services, transportation, communications, fishery equipment, airlines, telecommunications, education, health, construction and hotels. Libertarian economist Peter T. Leeson attributes this increased economic activity to the Somali customary law (referred to as Xeer), which he suggests provides a stable environment to conduct business in.

the reason Somalia is such a mess is not due to lack of government, Africa is full of countries with governments that are far worse than Somalia.

[cryptocoiner]

Society cannot run without goverment. If there is no goverment then there is a chaos, no civilization, no electricity, no economy, no internet, no bitcoin, etc =) 

Where's your proof? Most of what you describe is handled by private companies and citizens.

What about police? Army? Many other public services? You NEED someone in control, you need taxes to run things. C'mon men, society without goverment is a Somalia. Go there, you will see what complete freedom means.

that's such nonsense.
the government is nothing but a group of people, you have been indoctrinated since childhood that only that special group of people can be trusted to provide security services and all the other services they currently provide as an inefficient monopoly.

Somalia didn't have a central government only between the early 90's and early 2000's, in which time their economy actually started to recover.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Somalia

Unlike the pre-civil war period when most services and the industrial sector were government-run, there has been substantial, albeit unmeasured, private investment in commercial activities; this has been largely financed by the Somali diaspora, and includes trade and marketing, money transfer services, transportation, communications, fishery equipment, airlines, telecommunications, education, health, construction and hotels. Libertarian economist Peter T. Leeson attributes this increased economic activity to the Somali customary law (referred to as Xeer), which he suggests provides a stable environment to conduct business in.

the reason Somalia is such a mess is not due to lack of government, Africa is full of countries with governments that are far worse than Somalia.

What countries? Give an axample.

[My Name Was Taken]

Government cannot be destroyed.  Government is made up of a collection of individuals with their own desires and ambitions.  The people who run the taxation wing of the government often have little to do with the banking wing.

It just means if crypto currencies become mainstream then governments would continue collecting taxes, except it would be in digital currencies and not $Fiat.

So long as you believe in their power, they'll hold that power.

Stop fearing them and stop using money, and they have absolutely no power.  Their power is illusory.

Stop using money. Steal stuff instead. -Dank

Someone should publish a book of your best quotes.

I guess someone wasn't taught how to share as a kid.

Sharing benefits every party involved with the transaction.  You feel good for helping someone, they feel food for being helped, everyone wins.

People create things, not money.  Money only retards the progress.

Dank, money is just a representation of the value of the things people create. If you don't have any, it's because you're not making anything people value.

Do you not see the money induced mind of greed kills many many people?

Remove the tool that gives them power and all you have to do is not fear them.  Death is nothing to fear.  When you realize this you can live freely.  Peace.

Stand for a purpose for the higher good of humanity and the universe will look after you.

The revolution will be a spiritual revolution.

Do you not see that the reason you have no money is because you offer nothing of value to society?

[dank]

Yeah that infinite energy stuff, totally worthless since you can't profit off it.

[Robert Paulson]

Society cannot run without goverment. If there is no goverment then there is a chaos, no civilization, no electricity, no economy, no internet, no bitcoin, etc =) 

Where's your proof? Most of what you describe is handled by private companies and citizens.

What about police? Army? Many other public services? You NEED someone in control, you need taxes to run things. C'mon men, society without goverment is a Somalia. Go there, you will see what complete freedom means.

that's such nonsense.
the government is nothing but a group of people, you have been indoctrinated since childhood that only that special group of people can be trusted to provide security services and all the other services they currently provide as an inefficient monopoly.

Somalia didn't have a central government only between the early 90's and early 2000's, in which time their economy actually started to recover.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Somalia

Unlike the pre-civil war period when most services and the industrial sector were government-run, there has been substantial, albeit unmeasured, private investment in commercial activities; this has been largely financed by the Somali diaspora, and includes trade and marketing, money transfer services, transportation, communications, fishery equipment, airlines, telecommunications, education, health, construction and hotels. Libertarian economist Peter T. Leeson attributes this increased economic activity to the Somali customary law (referred to as Xeer), which he suggests provides a stable environment to conduct business in.

the reason Somalia is such a mess is not due to lack of government, Africa is full of countries with governments that are far worse than Somalia.

What countries? Give an axample.

how about war torn Sudan or Libya, both had and still have corrupt governments.
don't even have to look only in Africa, how about North Korea, the socialist heaven where the government takes care of everyone.

[My Name Was Taken]

Yeah that infinite energy stuff, totally worthless since you can't profit off it.

If you had infinite energy, you could profit off it. But you don't, so...