MOORE: Mining Bond Beating the Moore's Law (Collecting Shareholder Data)

[friedcat]

Believe me, there has not been anything like this in the Bitcoin world yet.

I'm relatively active between 1:00AM to 3:00PM of forum time each day. Contacting me within this time interval could get quicker responses.

Announcement

In case of the possibility we could not receive the shareholders data, we begin collecting the claims ourselves.

Please send to (fnnirvana@gmail.com) your number of shares and your Bitcoin address for receiving dividends. Please annotate that they are MOORE shares to avoid confusion with ASICMINER or MU shares. You could accompany them with any evidence you think is OK to provide. It is highly recommended that you use an address that you have its private key. By that, you may enjoy more facilities provided by our future automatic migrating platform.

The Liquid Helium Plan

If a catastrophe comes, we can save ourselves by soaking our body with liquid helium, and wake up in a brighter future.

To cope with the panic of mining bonds, I've decided to freeze the entire earth. Now it's already 17 weeks later. You don't feel anything, but it's indeed 17 weeks later. I can feel the soft and cool breeze of the late autumn, can't you?

Anyway our contract has to be accurately executed. So I have no choice but to re-calculate our hashrate from 1.03608 to 1.19388.

The similar plan will be launched in the future if similar disaster happens.

First launch: 17 weeks, 1.03608MH/s to 1.19388MH/s.

IPO and Bulk Purchase

You could buy shares of MOORE from GLBSE's open market: https://glbse.com/asset/view/MOORE, or you could do a bulk purchase directly from me.

Shares Left for Bulk Purchase: 0/9000

The price of IPO is set at 0.50 BTC/s.

The price of bulk purchase is set at 0.45 BTC/s(10.00% discount), but each trade has to involve larger than 500 shares(225 BTC). Please PM me for trades, and find witnesses/make records on replies if necessary.

Thanks to everyone who's interested.

Rolling display of the hashrate in next 5 weeks, updated each week

Payment date                   Hashrate(MH/s)
November 20                       1.43805
November 27                       1.45085
December 4                        1.46376
December 11                       1.47679
December 18                       1.48993

Brief Introduction
Moore is a perpetual mining bond. Each bond represents 1MH/s of hashrate from the start. What makes our bond different, is that the hashrate grows by 0.89% each week, which means that your hashrate will be doubled every 18 months. If you take the current other perpetual mining bonds as financial derivatives of the pro-payment model of normal mining stocks, then our bond is closest to the pro-reinvestment model of normal mining stocks.

Advantages
1. Compared to other mining bonds, the future price of Moore is less likely to drop.
2. We are essentially doing reinvestment job for you, saving you from the hassle of low liquidity, choice of new hardware, identifying good mining securities, etc.

Disadvantages
1. The initial price will be determined at a somehow high level.
2. Normal perpetual mining bonds will likely to become fungible, so you can easily figure out if a bond is mispriced by comparing it to others. But for Moore, it is not that easy to do a reasonable accurate valuation.

Risk Control
1. Initially, Moore will be backed by the bond issuer's current hardware and other mining equities.
2. More real hardware will gradually dominate the portfolio which backs Moore.
3. The bond issuer has the right to degenerate Moore into a normal mining bond by multiplying its hashrate at that time and 1.6. For example, after three years, each bond represents 4MH/s, if the issuer decides to degenerate it, it turns to a normal mining bond, which loses the power to grow 0.89% per week, but instantly becomes 6.4MH/s and doesn't change anymore.
4. The bond issuer has the right to buy Moore back at 105% of the weighted average market price of the last 5 days.
5. The bond issuer has the right to determine the price when he releases new bonds to the market.

Coupon Calculation
Definitions
Financial Week: Starting from 16:00:00(GMT Time) each Tuesday, ending at 16:00:00(GMT Time) the succeeding Tuesday.

Coupon Unit: The quantity of Bitcoins paid each share each financial week.

Payment Time
We assume T(0) is the IPO starting time, T(i) is the time of i-th coupon payment, and it should satisfy:

16:00:00(GMT Time) Tuesday of the i-th financial week <= T(i) < 16:00:00(GMT Time) Wednesday of the i-th financial week

The substraction on T(i) is defined in seconds, which means that (T(i)-T(i-1)) represents "how many seconds elapse between T(i) and T(i-1)".

Amount of Payments
The coupon unit of the i-th financial week is:

10^6 * (1.0089)^(i-1) * f(i) / 2^32

in which f(i) is calculated as follows:
  f(i) = (t(1)-t(0))*B(0)/D(0) + ... + (t(n)-t(n-1))*B(n-1)/D(n-1)
     where:
        the number of the changes of difficulty and block reward between T(i-1) and T(i) is (n-1).
        t(0) equals to T(i-1).
        t(j) (when 0<j<n and n>1) means the time of the j-th change of either the difficulty or the block reward during T(i-1) and T(i).
        t(n) equals to T(i).
        B(j) means the last block reward before t(j+1).
        D(j) means the last difficulty number before t(j+1).
        The substraction on t(j) is also defined in seconds.

Estimated Returns vs Normal Mining Bonds

Normal Mining Bonds are assumed to have a price of 0.3BTC/share, plotted in blue.
Moore Bonds are assumed to have a price of 0.48BTC/share, plotted in red.

X-axis is the number of weeks, Y-axis is the expected total return rate from coupons.

The difficulty is set at 1,733,208.
The date when block reward reduces to 25 is set at 30 weeks later.

The first picture assumes that the difficulty does not change:



The second picture assumes that when the block rewards turns to 25, the difficulty also turns to a half, as some miners will close their operations:



The third picture assumes that the difficulty also always smoothly increases by 0.89% according to the Moore's Law:



The forth picture assumes the same as the third one, except that when the block rewards turns to 25, the difficulty also turns to a half, as some miners will close their operations:


(reserved)

[1713862312]

1713862312

[organofcorti]

When will you start offering them? I don't see them on GLBSE yet.

Dividend Calculation
The formula of the dividends per share per week is:

R*(86400*7*B*10^6)/(D*2^32)

in which:
  R is the hashrate of that week, which starts with 1, and grows by 0.89% each week.
  B is the block reward, which is 50 now, and will become 25 in the next 4 years.
  D is the difficulty of that week.

Which is the difficulty of that week? The difficulty at the start of that week, or at the end? Same goes for B.

Wouldn't it be better to calculate the dividend the way Puremining does, so that neither difficulty nor B can affect it? I like the look of these bonds, but would prefer dividends based on numbers of blocks solved rather than weeks.

[rjk]

If it doesn't follow Moore's law, shouldn't it be called NOT-MOORE?

[Garr255]

If it doesn't follow Moore's law, shouldn't it be called NOT-MOORE?

[molecular]

interesting... what's the timeline for ipo?

[ineededausername]

If it doesn't follow Moore's law, shouldn't it be called NOT-MOORE?

NO.MOORE

[Garr255]

If it doesn't follow Moore's law, shouldn't it be called NOT-MOORE?

NO.MOORE

Yes.

[BinaryMage]

Quite interested, depending on initial sale price.

[friedcat]

When will you start offering them? I don't see them on GLBSE yet.

I've already created the asset with the date set as "3 days from now", but it doesn't show on the IPO page. Don't know if it's a feature of GLBSE or there's something I didn't do it right.

Which is the difficulty of that week? The difficulty at the start of that week, or at the end? Same goes for B.

It means the start of that (financial) week. That is, each payment on Wednesday will be calculated using the difficulty and block reward of last Wednesday.

Wouldn't it be better to calculate the dividend the way Puremining does, so that neither difficulty nor B can affect it? I like the look of these bonds, but would prefer dividends based on numbers of blocks solved rather than weeks.

We will surely consider, thanks for your advice.

[Sukrim]

Are growth percentages (the 0.89%) compounded or not? Meaning: after 100 weeks, is the hash rate per bond 1.89 or higher?

Also 100 (percent) / 2 * 52 (weeks) != 0.89%... How did you come up with that number should you not plan to compound interest?


Disadvantage 2 is easy, just think how long you want to hold a bond and then calculate how many hashes it would solve in that timeframe. I could try to put up a calculator/spreadsheet for that... Something along the lines of "I want to hold bond A or MOORE for X weeks - how long do I need to hold MOORE to be chaper per hashes solved than bond A?"

[kronosvl]

I guess on week x it will be 1.0089^x (or 1.0089^(x-1)) something like that
as for the 0.89% I think is 2^(1/(365*1.5))-1 for 1 day or (2^(1/(365*1.5)))^7-1 for 1 week

[friedcat]

Are growth percentages (the 0.89%) compounded or not? Meaning: after 100 weeks, is the hash rate per bond 1.89 or higher?

Also 100 (percent) / 2 * 52 (weeks) != 0.89%... How did you come up with that number should you not plan to compound interest?

It is compounded. Or it would have a chance to beat the Moore's Law, which itself implies exponential growth.

After 18 months, that is 1.5 year:
(1+0.89%)^(1.5*365/7)=1.99976, which is very close to 2.

After 100 weeks:
(1+0.89%)^100=2.43556.

Disadvantage 2 is easy, just think how long you want to hold a bond and then calculate how many hashes it would solve in that timeframe. I could try to put up a calculator/spreadsheet for that... Something along the lines of "I want to hold bond A or MOORE for X weeks - how long do I need to hold MOORE to be chaper per hashes solved than bond A?"

This is the easy part. The hard part is "how long you want to hold a bond", which is not pre-determined, but deeply affected by tons of other conditions, including the pricing of bonds themselves.

Thanks very much.

[Sukrim]

Well, as I said, you can also calculate how long it would take to be more profitable if you buy 1 MH/s MOORE right now at 0.50 BTC compared to 1 MH/s stable for 0.30 BTC...

[friedcat]

Well, as I said, you can also calculate how long it would take to be more profitable if you buy 1 MH/s MOORE right now at 0.50 BTC compared to 1 MH/s stable for 0.30 BTC...

What I was suggesting is that the pros and cons of our bonds, compared to normal ones, are multi-dimensional. Some will prefer growth, and some will prefer more immediate returns so they could use it elsewhere. The difficulty/price uncertainty of the future further complicates the choice.

But you are right. We could make the calculation to give buyers more indication. "How much time it would take to be more profitable" would make a good indicator, and I believe so as "How long it will break even" and "How long the total dividends will exceed 10x of normal mining bonds", etc.

Thank you very much.

[friedcat]

Update

The asset is in verification. I made the contract more detailed and submitted again. I hope it will be listed on the IPO page soon.

Thanks for your patience.

[Sukrim]

But you are right. We could make the calculation to give buyers more indication. "How much time it would take to be more profitable" would make a good indicator, and I believe so as "How long it will break even" and "How long the total dividends will exceed 10x of normal mining bonds", etc.

"How long until it will have solved more virtual hashes per BTC invested than a cheaper static 1 MH/s contract" is calculable. Not perfectly, as you have a weird payout scheme/calculation, but it should be close.
"How long until your investment is gained as dividends" not, as it depends on difficulty
"How long until you will have gained 10x the dividends of a static bond" is not calculable as well, as this also depends on difficulty.

An ideal case for buying this bond here would be a strong difficulty increase in the beginning and then, after you passed the hashes per BTC invested of 1 MH/s bonds, a decline or at least slow increase in difficulty again. Also you should take into account when buying this on which weekdays difficulty increases can be expected, unless the payout calculation gets closer to the real expected values.

[friedcat]

Update

MOORE is already listed on the IPO page of GLBSE.

The number of shares for selling, the IPO price, and the price for bulk purchase are to be determined.

[friedcat]

"How long until your investment is gained as dividends" not, as it depends on difficulty
"How long until you will have gained 10x the dividends of a static bond" is not calculable as well, as this also depends on difficulty.

Yes, they only make sense when we pre-make an assumption on future difficulty evolution.

unless the payout calculation gets closer to the real expected values.

It seems you are concerned with my dividends calculation formula, and some other people too.
Would it be better to change it to:
R*(N*600*B*10^6)/(D*2^32)
in which R, B and D keep the original meaning, and N means the number of actual blocks between the time of two payments?

Thank you very much.

[Sukrim]

Not at all, as this means you pay out more on rounds where difficulty is on the rise (average time between blocks is less than 600 seconds) and less if it is going down (slower than 1 block every 10 minutes).

Just pay the expected 100% PPS rate:

Sum of ( (Hash rate * Time in seconds of difficulty 1 * block reward 1) / (difficulty 1 * 2^32) + (Hash rate * Time in seconds of difficulty 2 * block reward 2) / (difficulty 2 * 2^32) + ... )

The time in seconds either starts at the beginning of the week or at the last block of the old difficulty and ends at the last second of the week or at the last block of the current difficulty.

Example:

Hashrate of the network explodes, difficulties are 1, 4 and 16, 2 difficulty changes after 3 days, 0:00 (timestamp of last block with difficulty 1) and 2 days later 0:00 (timestamp of last block with difficulty 4)and another time on the last second of the week, hashrate of the bond = 1 MH/s:

( ( 1*10^6 H/s * 259200 s * 50 BTC) / (1 * 2^32) ) + ( ( 1*10^6 H/s * 172800 s * 50 BTC) / (4 * 2^32) ) + ( ( 1*10^6 H/s * 172800 s * 50 BTC) / (16 * 2^32) ) = 3 646.12788 BTC (1 MH/s was a lot in the beginning of a bitcoin block chain!)

With your old calculation (R*(86400*7*B*10^6)/(D*2^32)):
( 1 * 86400 * 7 * 50 * 10^6 ) / ( 1 * 2^32 ) = 7 040.79866 BTC

or the updated one (R*(N*600*B*10^6)/(D*2^32)):
( 1 * 6048 (= 3 times 2016 blocks) * 600 * 50 * 10^6 ) / ( 1 * 2^32 ) = 42 244.792 BTC

Yes, the examples are highly exaggerated, but you still see that you clearly will pay out too much (in extreme cases far too much!) if difficulty rises. As you increase your hash rate per your calculations as well, you'll increase that effect too. On the other hand, if difficulty goes down, you underpay or get closer to the real PPS values.

Feel free to pay out on your flawed simplified model, but if a little bit of math is already too difficult to do, it makes me wonder if you're up to the task of handling a mining operation that has to double it's size consistently every 1.5 years...

[friedcat]

Just pay the expected 100% PPS rate:

Sum of ( (Hash rate * Time in seconds of difficulty 1 * block reward 1) / (difficulty 1 * 2^32) + (Hash rate * Time in seconds of difficulty 2 * block reward 2) / (difficulty 2 * 2^32) + ... )

The time in seconds either starts at the beginning of the week or at the last block of the old difficulty and ends at the last second of the week or at the last block of the current difficulty.

This matches real mining process most accurately. Thanks for figuring out for me. I think I fell into the pitfall of assuming that the difficulty change will always be mild so that I chose the over-simplified model. You are right. Extreme cases should be taken into account.

Feel free to pay out on your flawed simplified model, but if a little bit of math is already too difficult to do, it makes me wonder if you're up to the task of handling a mining operation that has to double it's size consistently every 1.5 years...

Thanks for your criticism. I won't "feel free". I will do my best to revise my plan. I'm sorry for the informality and flaws of the OP, and will make a more detailed appendix to it.

[friedcat]

Revision of Coupon Payments

Definitions
Financial Week: Starting from 16:00:00(GMT Time) each Tuesday, ending at 16:00:00(GMT Time) the succeeding Tuesday.

Coupon Unit: The quantity of Bitcoins paid each share each financial week.

Payment Time
We assume T(0) is the IPO starting time, T(i) is the time of i-th coupon payment, and it should satisfy:

16:00:00(GMT Time) Tuesday of the i-th financial week <= T(i) < 16:00:00(GMT Time) Wednesday of the i-th financial week

The substraction on T(i) is defined in seconds, which means that (T(i)-T(i-1)) represents "how many seconds elapse between T(i) and T(i-1)".

Amount of Payments
The coupon unit of the i-th financial week is:

10^6 * (1.0089)^(i-1) * f(i) / 2^32

in which f(i) is calculated as follows:
  f(i) = (t(1)-t(0))*B(0)/D(0) + ... + (t(n)-t(n-1))*B(n-1)/D(n-1)
     where:
        the number of the changes of difficulty and block reward between T(i-1) and T(i) is (n-1).
        t(0) equals to T(i-1).
        t(j) (when 0<j<n and n>1) means the time of the j-th change of either the difficulty or the block reward during T(i-1) and T(i).
        t(n) equals to T(i).
        B(j) means the last block reward before t(j+1).
        D(j) means the last difficulty number before t(j+1).
        The substraction on t(j) is also defined in seconds.

[Sukrim]

Perfect!

Just a recommendation: Plot this (with assumed constant difficulty) for 1 year and show people the nice exponential curve!

[organofcorti]

Looking good. Just a couple of points:
1. I find

Code:

10^6 * (1+0.89%)^(i-1) * f(i) / 2^32

a bit confusing.

Code:

10^6 * [b](1.089)[/b]^(i-1) * f(i) / 2^32

is a bit simpler and easier to parse (nitpicky I know, but still...)

2. You're still basing payment on a chronological basis which I'm sure makes ROI easier to calculate, but mean you have to use a complex function to calculate f(i). Basing the coupon period on the greatest common denominator of the block count to halving the bitcoin reward (210000) and between difficulty changes (2016) mean that you'd calculate the dividend on 336 blocks at a time. You can still pay weekly if you want, although the weekly payment will vary depending on how many sets of 336 blocks were in that time period. But the divdend calculation becomes a lot simpler. 

Good luck. I'll purchase some of these with my next lot of bond dividends.

[Sukrim]

1.089 != 1 + 0.89%...

1 + 0.89% is 1.0089!

Meni does this thing with 336 block "macroblocks" - there might still be an issue though with being able to game the system a bit by buying in on weeks where it's likely that they contain 1 more macroblock than other weeks, since on average one macroblock is a bit longer than 1 day.

The correct (though a bit complicated) way to do it (if you want constant time window payouts) is as friedcat already outlined: Calculate for each second how much 1 hash would be worth and sum it up for 1 week or whatever your payout frequency is.

[friedcat]

Looking good. Just a couple of points:
1. I find

Code:

10^6 * (1+0.89%)^(i-1) * f(i) / 2^32

a bit confusing.

Fixed. Thanks for informing.

2. You're still basing payment on a chronological basis which I'm sure makes ROI easier to calculate, but mean you have to use a complex function to calculate f(i). Basing the coupon period on the greatest common denominator of the block count to halving the bitcoin reward (210000) and between difficulty changes (2016) mean that you'd calculate the dividend on 336 blocks at a time. You can still pay weekly if you want, although the weekly payment will vary depending on how many sets of 336 blocks were in that time period. But the divdend calculation becomes a lot simpler.

I think a more faithful connection to real mining process is more important than easier coupon calculation. So I may just stick to my new calculation formula.

Good luck. I'll purchase some of these with my next lot of bond dividends.

Glad to know this. Thank you very much.

[organofcorti]

1.089 != 1 + 0.89%...

1 + 0.89% is 1.0089!

see what I mean by confusing!

Meni does this thing with 336 block "macroblocks" - there might still be an issue though with being able to game the system a bit by buying in on weeks where it's likely that they contain 1 more macroblock than other weeks, since on average one macroblock is a bit longer than 1 day.

The correct (though a bit complicated) way to do it (if you want constant time window payouts) is as friedcat already outlined: Calculate for each second how much 1 hash would be worth and sum it up for 1 week or whatever your payout frequency is.

Yes this is not my idea, its Meni's. I like its simplicity and it allows me to calculate the results myself pretty easily. I like the transparency. The constant time window payouts aren't a big attraction for me. I don't mind a bunch of smaller payouts.

Like I said this is all a bit nitpicky, and if friedcat is ok with the extra complexity, it really isn't a big deal. I just like simplicity where it's available.

I think a more faithful connection to real mining process is more important than easier coupon calculation. So I may just stick to my new calculation formula.

Well, I have to disagree with you there. There's no reason a bond has to be faithful to the real mining process, just faithful to the promised dividend. I guess what I'd really like is a bond that pays the same amount per dividend for a given difficulty period - or as in MOORE, an exponentially ramping amount.

Anyway, this is total offtopic, and your current system will serve just as well.

[friedcat]

Perfect!

Just a recommendation: Plot this (with assumed constant difficulty) for 1 year and show people the nice exponential curve!

I'm now actively working on it, besides the planning of the initial portfolio, and the coordinating jobs of miners and mining operations.
Expect a detailed estimation soon.

[friedcat]

Estimated Returns vs Normal Mining Bonds

Normal Mining Bonds are assumed to have a price of 0.3BTC/share, plotted in blue.
Moore Bonds are assumed to have a price of 0.48BTC/share, plotted in red.

X-axis is the number of weeks, Y-axis is the expected total return rate from coupons.

The difficulty is set at 1,733,208.
The date when block reward reduces to 25 is set at 30 weeks later.

The first picture assumes that the difficulty does not change:



The second picture assumes that when the block rewards turns to 25, the difficulty also turns to a half, as some miners will close their operations:

[johnlu]

How many shares are you going to sell? How much does each share cost? At least I would like to know an estimated price :-)

[Sukrim]

In the post above he/she valued them at 0.48 BTC per initial MH/s, about 60% above the typical 0.30 BTC that 1 MH/s bonds sell atm.

Another interesting plot would be with difficulty that increases according to Moore's law - your bonds then should show a straight line while constant bonds (while initially cheaper) will rapidly decline at some point.

[punningclan]

I'm looking forward to the IPO.

[friedcat]

In the post above he/she valued them at 0.48 BTC per initial MH/s, about 60% above the typical 0.30 BTC that 1 MH/s bonds sell atm.

Another interesting plot would be with difficulty that increases according to Moore's law - your bonds then should show a straight line while constant bonds (while initially cheaper) will rapidly decline at some point.

The price is now finally determined at 0.48BTC/s. The amount is to be announced yet.

The following are two pictures showing that if the difficulty increases according to Moore's Law, how our bonds will perform compared to normal bonds.

Normal Mining Bonds are assumed to have a price of 0.3BTC/share, plotted in blue.
Moore Bonds are assumed to have a price of 0.48BTC/share, plotted in red.

X-axis is the number of weeks, Y-axis is the expected total return rate from coupons.

The difficulty is initially set at 1,733,208, and increases by 0.89% each week.
The date when block reward reduces to 25 is set at 30 weeks later.

The first picture assumes that the difficulty always smoothly increases:



The second picture assumes that when the block rewards turns to 25, the difficulty also turns to a half, as some miners will close their operations:

[brendio]

Thanks for the graphs. I like graphs!  What program did you use to produce them?

[friedcat]

Thanks for the graphs. I like graphs!  What program did you use to produce them?

I wrote a little script to generate the data, then using Excel to plot them.
It's the standard and most painless way for me.

[friedcat]

Update

The price of IPO is set at 0.480.50 BTC/s.

The price of bulk purchase is 0.45 BTC/s(6.6710.00% discount), but each trade has to involve larger than 500 shares(225 BTC). Please PM me for trades, and find witnesses/make records on replies if necessary.

The total amount of our initial release will be less than or equal to 20,000 shares.
It depends on how the bulk purchase goes on.

Thanks to everyone who's interested.

[friedcat]

Update

The price is adjusted. The bulk purchase price is unchanged, but the IPO price is increased to 0.50 BTC/share.

Since the IPO hasn't started, I hope this will not provoke too much confusion.

I am very sorry but the first round is priced at the lowest bound in our profit-risk estimation, therefore after some consideration, we decided to re-price them.

[BurtW]

This looks very interesting.  Subscribe.

[BrightAnarchist]

Are you a mining company who will utilize the funds directly, or are you using the proceeds to purchase other mining bonds?

Also, when is the IPO ( or did I already miss it )?

Thanks.

[jackmaninov]

The MOORE IPO time has passed; when will the opening asks be posted?

[VEscudero]

The MOORE IPO time has passed; when will the opening asks be posted?

Subs

[BurtW]

I am trying to contact him to find out when he is going to issue the shares.

[guruvan]

Anything ever happen?

[BurtW]

He is still offline and no response to my skype.  You know as much as me now - not much.  I am assuming that either a) he got confused by the whole UTC versus China versus US versus GLBSE serve time thing or b) the Chineese government hauled him away.  I hope it is a)

[friedcat]

Update

I sincerely apologize for the confusion of time I made. I am online each day for a long time, but not from day to night. I couldn't get access to internet within a certain time interval every day. Very sorry for the late.

There are 20,000 shares for sale at the first round. 5,000 are for IPO sale and the rest are for bulk purchase.

I will be in no way hauled away by the Chinese government in a foreseeable time. It likes to intervene with everything, but there are much more things other than Bitcoin-related stuff that are interesting to them. Maybe 5 years later, the market cap of Bitcoin exceeds Apple and we finally catche its eyes, but not now.

[friedcat]

Are you a mining company who will utilize the funds directly, or are you using the proceeds to purchase other mining bonds?

As said in the OP, we will do both at the start, but quickly turn to a portfolio composed mainly by real hardware to reduce both my cost and my risk. Thanks.

The IPO has already been started. I'm very sorry for the delay.

[Sukrim]

Are you a mining company who will utilize the funds directly, or are you using the proceeds to purchase other mining bonds?

As said in the OP, we will do both at the start, but quickly turn to a portfolio composed mainly by real hardware to reduce both my cost and my risk. Thanks.

The IPO has already been started. I'm very sorry for the delay.

Paying out dividends/interest from deposits is also known as a "Ponzi" scheme. What fraction of initial deposits are we talking about and how "quickly" will you start real mining with at least the hash rate you are paying out? I won't touch a single share until then...

[friedcat]

Are you a mining company who will utilize the funds directly, or are you using the proceeds to purchase other mining bonds?

As said in the OP, we will do both at the start, but quickly turn to a portfolio composed mainly by real hardware to reduce both my cost and my risk. Thanks.

The IPO has already been started. I'm very sorry for the delay.

Paying out dividends/interest from deposits is also known as a "Ponzi" scheme. What fraction of initial deposits are we talking about and how "quickly" will you start real mining with at least the hash rate you are paying out? I won't touch a single share until then...

When I replied the question of BrightAnarchist, what "utilize the funds directly" in my mind was "using the funds to buy hardware", because the context was "a mining company". This is also our OP implied. Unfortunately it could also be read as "paying out from deposits", which I didn't realize before, and I will never do this.

So what I said "do both at the start" means that the coupons will initially come from the current hardware in my control, and the coupons from other mining bonds. But the portion of the latter will decrease as we get new hardware. Relying on too much other mining assets for too long a time increases my risks and reduces my potential profits.

Therefore the direct answers to your questions are:

1. What fraction of initial deposits are we talking about?
Answer: 0%. We will not pay the capital.

2. How "quickly" will you start real mining with at least the hash rate you are paying out?
Answer: I will start real mining immediately (in fact the current hardware already mined for a long time), but if the mining power in my control (10GH/s) at this moment couldn't support the coupons, I will invest on some other mining bonds. The expansion will be done in 4-6 weeks. After that, most capital from other mining assets will be switched to real hardware.

Thank you for your question and hope my answers could help clarify. Very sorry for the confusion I brought.

[brendio]

Paying out dividends/interest from deposits is also known as a "Ponzi" scheme.

I'd disagree.

In a Ponzi scheme the returns are fraudulently claimed to come from investment returns and used to induce others to invest. The returns on this bond contract are determined by a known formula. So long as the issuer pays out coupons according to that formula, the terms of the contract are fulfilled. How the issuer hedges its obligations with mining hardware or otherwise is a matter for the issuer.

[friedcat]

How the issuer hedges its obligations with mining hardware or otherwise is a matter for the issuer.

Well in fact it's not. It makes difference in risks, therefore the difference in the return rates.

One of the reasons why mining bonds (of which the return rate is lower than lending) are still interesting at this moment at all, is that the investors know that there are real hardware always working to produce Bitcoins and therefore more confident about investing.

[HorseRider]

Paying out dividends/interest from deposits is also known as a "Ponzi" scheme. What fraction of initial deposits are we talking about and how "quickly" will you start real mining with at least the hash rate you are paying out? I won't touch a single share until then...

Friedcat is living in China, he has been already contacting and negotiation with the hardware and mining power with the some influential Chinese miners right since this post started. He has reached me and that's how I know he is doing this.

IMHO, this bond will be backed up by real mining power, there is bitcoin->mining rigs ->bitcoin circle which produce real net profit from the mining activities, it's not a ponzi scheme where "dividends" is paid from deposits of later people.

[jackmaninov]

Looks like some more investors need to be found...

[friedcat]

Looks like some more investors need to be found...

I have processed in total of more than 5,000 shares of bulk purchase till now. That's about 1/4 of the total IPO size.

But I agree with you. The amount of invested BTC so far is still far away from the capability I could handle. And I will need more investments to get enough funds to enjoy the wholesale price of FPGAs.

Thanks for your interest.

[friedcat]

1st Payment

Calculation time: May 30, 05:07:33 forum time

For compensation of my delay of IPO, the first coupon is calculated with a full week instead of six days.

Number of difficulty change: 1
Number of block reward change: 0

Time interval before difficulty change:
  Starting from: May 23, 05:07:33
  Ending at: May 24, 18:10:29
  Total time: 133754s
  Difficulty: 1,733,207.51

Time interval after difficulty change:
  Starting from: May 24, 18:10:29
  Ending at: May 30, 05:07:32
  Total time: 471046s
  Difficulty: 1,591,074.96

Hashrate of this week: 1MH/s

coupon/share = (1*10^6)/(2^32)*(133754*50/1733207.51+471046*50/1591074.96)=0.0043449

Number of Shares: 5437

Total Payment: 23.6232213

[friedcat]

Update

To reduce the "scary wall" and facilitate the discovering of a proper price. We changed the IPO offering from 5,000 shares to 1,000 shares.

The bulk purchase is still open at 0.45 BTC/share.

As the hash rate grows each week and so does our obligation of payment, both the IPO price and the private offering price are about to rise soon.

[friedcat]

Update

5,884 shares have been sold till now. It equals to about 5.936GH/s of hashrate this week (1.0089MH/s per share), which still does not exceed my current maximum capability of about 10GH/s.

The raised money will be used for buying ngzhang's mining FPGAs called Lancelot (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=79835.0).
BFLs and other FPGAs probably will not be an option in the short term, because the waiting cycle will be too long, and they might have trouble passing the border of mainland China without paying relatively heavy tariffs.

At the best scenario, we could get over 30 Lancelots at 400$ each for the first batch, which could be as fast as mid-June. Because I'm also in China, both the shipping time and the shipping price are almost negligible. If each Lancelot could mine at 500MH/s as said in the corresponding thread, It will push my mining capability from 10GH/s to more than 25GH/s within this month with the current sold bonds.

At the worst scenario, the first batch could be delayed for a while, and there might be some limitation on how many each person could buy for the first batch, then I can only get less than 30 Lancelots at 500$, so I would rather waiting for the next batch, which might take as long as 1-2 weeks for retail buying and about 4 weeks for wholesale buying. In this condition, my mining capability will be pushed from 10GH/s to more than 25GH/s before the end of July, but before that, I will have to pay coupons with the existing mining power.

Therefore if in the next few weeks, some sudden demands of MOORE rise, I might reduce the first round of offering from 20,000 shares to about 8,000 to 9,000 shares, and offer more after the first wave of hardware arrives.

[Jimmy2011]

MOORE is a formula bond, which is definitely win all other mining bonds for the issuer. I am wondering whether my following reasoning is right,

The great point is the IPO price, say 0.45 BTC or 0.5 BTC per share, which is about 1.5 times of the normal mining price.

So the issuer can get ~1.5X "hardware", or the simplest way is just to invest other normal mining bonds in GLBSE market to get the normal coupons, which is ~ 1.5X NORMAL coupons for the issued shares.

But the return is a "MOORE" formula, which is less than the NORMAL coupons in a large periods of more than one year, so the issuer can profit more than 0.5X NORMAL coupons.

The first cross point is the "MOORE" return equal to NORMAL return at the time frame more than 80 weeks according to the plots in this thread.

The second cross point is the "MOORE" return equal to ~1.5X NORMAL return, which is apparently at the time frame more than 2 years.

And the last point is from the profit during the above periods of more than 2 years. The profit during that period can also compensate the steeper "MOORE" return in a longer periods, and the profit can also get a normal profit, say the interest. So the issuer may have not any risk for this formula bond.

I didn't reason the details of the difficulty change, BITCOIN changes from 50 to 25 and all other factors. The reasoning is only from an intuitive viewpoint of a linear function that more Bitcoins can be mined if there are more mining power at any situation.

So now I will buy some shares if the price is 0.3 BTC per share as the usual mining bonds.

[Sukrim]

I didn't reason the details of the difficulty change, BITCOIN changes from 50 to 25 and all other factors. The reasoning is only from an intuitive viewpoint of a linear function that more Bitcoins can be mined if there are more mining power at any situation.

So now I will buy some shares if the price is 0.3 BTC per share as the usual mining bonds.

I'm not sure if I get you correctly, but other mining bonds don't recalculate with higher hash rate each week, they stay at the same hash rate. Bitcoin itself has the so called "difficulty" that evens out any effort to mine more coins just by adding more/faster hardware to the cluster. On average in total there will be ~50 BTC per 10 minutes until December, no matter if the global hash rate triples until then or halves.

Why would you not pay a premium for a bond that grows automatically by 0.89% (compounded!) each week?

[friedcat]

MOORE is a formula bond, which is definitely win all other mining bonds for the issuer. I am wondering whether my following reasoning is right,

The great point is the IPO price, say 0.45 BTC or 0.5 BTC per share, which is about 1.5 times of the normal mining price.

So the issuer can get ~1.5X "hardware", or the simplest way is just to invest other normal mining bonds in GLBSE market to get the normal coupons, which is ~ 1.5X NORMAL coupons for the issued shares.

But the return is a "MOORE" formula, which is less than the NORMAL coupons in a large periods of more than one year, so the issuer can profit more than 0.5X NORMAL coupons.

The first cross point is the "MOORE" return equal to NORMAL return at the time frame more than 80 weeks according to the plots in this thread.

The second cross point is the "MOORE" return equal to ~1.5X NORMAL return, which is apparently at the time frame more than 2 years.

And the last point is from the profit during the above periods of more than 2 years. The profit during that period can also compensate the steeper "MOORE" return in a longer periods, and the profit can also get a normal profit, say the interest. So the issuer may have not any risk for this formula bond.

I didn't reason the details of the difficulty change, BITCOIN changes from 50 to 25 and all other factors. The reasoning is only from an intuitive viewpoint of a linear function that more Bitcoins can be mined if there are more mining power at any situation.

So now I will buy some shares if the price is 0.3 BTC per share as the usual mining bonds.

0.3 BTC per share for MOORE would be a devastating discount that makes me a net loss at all time. It means that I have to support 1MH/s from the very beginning, as other mining bond issuers do, and guarantee the 0.89% per week growth as an extra obligation, with only 0.3 BTC.

Only if I could get BFL Mini Rigs or ASIC miners today, and have free access to electricity, I might be able to make a little profits. But in this impossibly optimistic scenario, issuing normal bonds with 0.2BTC/MH or even 0.18 BTC/MH would also be profitable. But as far as I know, 0.2BTC/MH normal mining bonds are not that common in the market. Gigavps did this before, but the market pushed the price to nearly 0.3BTC/MH almost immediately after that.

[Jimmy2011]

I didn't reason the details of the difficulty change, BITCOIN changes from 50 to 25 and all other factors. The reasoning is only from an intuitive viewpoint of a linear function that more Bitcoins can be mined if there are more mining power at any situation.

So now I will buy some shares if the price is 0.3 BTC per share as the usual mining bonds.

I'm not sure if I get you correctly, but other mining bonds don't recalculate with higher hash rate each week, they stay at the same hash rate. Bitcoin itself has the so called "difficulty" that evens out any effort to mine more coins just by adding more/faster hardware to the cluster. On average in total there will be ~50 BTC per 10 minutes until December, no matter if the global hash rate triples until then or halves.

Why would you not pay a premium for a bond that grows automatically by 0.89% (compounded!) each week?

I am sorry that I misunderstood the contract. MOORE is a dynamic bond, which recalculates the base share.

At the moment, I am puzzled that how MOORE outperform the average profit from the mining, ~50 BTC per 10 minutes, in the long-term.

[Jimmy2011]

0.3 BTC per share for MOORE would be a devastating discount that makes me a net loss at all time. It means that I have to support 1MH/s from the very beginning, as other mining bond issuers do, and guarantee the 0.89% per week growth as an extra obligation, with only 0.3 BTC.

Only if I could get BFL Mini Rigs or ASIC miners today, and have free access to electricity, I might be able to make a little profits. But in this impossibly optimistic scenario, issuing normal bonds with 0.2BTC/MH or even 0.18 BTC/MH would also be profitable. But as far as I know, 0.2BTC/MH normal mining bonds are not that common in the market. Gigavps did this before, but the market pushed the price to nearly 0.3BTC/MH almost immediately after that.

Friedcat: I am sorry for my misunderstanding of your bond.

From a long term point of view, I am also worrying some risks in China. As you plan to install more miners, in China, I am wondering how will some governments or departments treat the equipment and electricity.

[friedcat]

Friedcat: I am sorry for my misunderstanding of your bond.

From a long term point of view, I am also worrying some risks in China. As you plan to install more miners, in China, I am wondering how will some governments or departments treat the equipment and electricity.

That's OK. And the concern of me being in China is also very reasonable. I will try to explain it.

1. From the legislation point of view, the Chinese government doesn't ban virtual currencies and commodities, but they only allow a single-sided circulation. For example, a game company can sell their virtual currencies for fiat, but players could not redeem them back as fiat again. This means that things like Bitcoin exchanges are in a illegal, or at best, grey area, in China. Bitcoin itself is fine, so is Bitcoin mining.

2. In the reality, legislation and laws in China are not as respected as in western countries. Orders and policies from the executive administrations matter more. Laws could be easily changed, and in most of the time, the government does not need legislation support to do evil things. But consider that the Chinese government is as slow and bloated as other fellow post-totalitarian ones in history, brand new inventions like Bitcoin is too tiny, too agile, and too beyond-of-its-imagination for it to identify. It has got too many other "bigger" and "more serious" problems to worry about.

3. In China, there are many things that are both illegal in principle and thriving in practice. Pornography, prostitution and gambling are all good examples. In fact, if you strictly follow all the laws and regulations, you could virtually do nothing at all. Almost all companies and enterprises evade taxes, or they can not survive for even a single day. Almost all stores and restaurants bribe to government officers, or they could never pass the regulation requirements, which are impossible to meet in the first place, to get their business licenses. The bottom line is that "don't make the government feel that you are dangerous for them" and "don't shout too loud to make other people believe you are beyond their regulations".

4. It is indeed possible that Bitcoin finally catches its eyes, and it finally decides that Bitcoin is a threat to it. But in my opinion it wouldn't be soon, and the possibility will not be significant larger than EU or US doing it.

5. Mining is not done publicly on the streets, and the electricity use is also limited. In China electricity costs about 0.1$/kWh, which is not much higher than in the US. If we could luckily expand to 1000GH or more, the mining space and electricity consumption might attract the attention of the local government. But that's quite far away, and could be avoided by scatter the Rigs into different places or even cities.

As a Chinese, I hope I didn't fail too much in describing how things work in China, and I hope the explanations above could answer your question.

[friedcat]

2nd Payment

Calculation time: June 6, 05:45:13 forum time

Number of difficulty change: 0
Number of block reward change: 0

Time interval:
  Starting from: May 30, 05:07:33
  Ending at: June 6, 05:45:13
  Total time: 607060s
  Difficulty: 1,591,074.96

Hashrate of this week: 1.0089MH/s

coupon/share = (1.0089*10^6)/(2^32)*(607060*50/1591074.96)=0.0044813

Number of Shares: 5916

Total Payment: 26.5113708

[friedcat]

Update

The main thread has been slightly cleaned up. I also added a section of payment history.

Ngzhang released some news of Lancelot: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=79835.msg942822#msg942822. The expected date of first-batch releasing remains unchanged, because the present small bugs were already taken into consideration when he first estimated the date. I could take advantage of the short delivering time and low shipping fee by being in the same country as his. I'm looking forward to my smooth expansion.

[Bitcoin Oz]

I enjoyed your explanation of how you view the chinese government. Lets hope they dont catch on to bitcoin untill its too late.

[friedcat]

3rd Payment

Calculation time: June 13, 04:18:48 forum time

Number of difficulty change: 1
Number of block reward change: 0

Time interval:
  Starting from: June 6, 05:45:13
  Ending at: June 7, 19:51:04
  Total time: 137151s
  Difficulty: 1,591,074.96

  Starting from: June 7, 19:51:04
  Ending at: June 13, 04:18:48
  Total time: 462464s
  Difficulty: 1,583,177.85

Hashrate of this week: 1.01788MH/s

coupon/share = (1.01788*10^6)/(2^32)*(137151*50/1591074.96+462464*50/1583177.85)=0.0044829

Number of Shares: 6109

Total Payment: 27.3860361

[PinkBatman]

Sub

Edit: Big fan of this so far.

[friedcat]

Great News

Recently, many people are concerned with the sudden drop of mining bond prices. For those who worry that our 0.89% week growth is not enough to neutralize the pressure of BTC price rallying and the dramatic improvement of hardware, we are planning to launch a secret plan for you. The code name is Liquid Helium.

The details are to be announced.

[GeoRW]

Great News

Recently, many people are concerned with the sudden drop of mining bond prices. For those who worry that our 0.89% week growth is not enough to neutralize the pressure of BTC price rallying and the dramatic improvement of hardware, we are planning to launch a secret plan for you. The code name is Liquid Helium.

The details are to be announced.

Just be careful not to blow your hardware

[friedcat]

Great News

Recently, many people are concerned with the sudden drop of mining bond prices. For those who worry that our 0.89% week growth is not enough to neutralize the pressure of BTC price rallying and the dramatic improvement of hardware, we are planning to launch a secret plan for you. The code name is Liquid Helium.

The details are to be announced.

Just be careful not to blow your hardware

I don't know if normal silicon chips could work at the extremely low temperature in liquid helium. Some professionals give me a science popularization please.

However, the liquid helium is not for my hardware, but something else.

[Garr255]

Great News

Recently, many people are concerned with the sudden drop of mining bond prices. For those who worry that our 0.89% week growth is not enough to neutralize the pressure of BTC price rallying and the dramatic improvement of hardware, we are planning to launch a secret plan for you. The code name is Liquid Helium.

The details are to be announced.

Just be careful not to blow your hardware

I don't know if normal silicon chips could work at the extremely low temperature in liquid helium. Some professionals give me a science popularization please.

They don't

[friedcat]

I don't know if normal silicon chips could work at the extremely low temperature in liquid helium. Some professionals give me a science popularization please.

They don't

Thanks. Anyway, my fancy freezing fluid is for much much larger objects than several pieces of hardware.

[Bitcoin Oz]

When the ASIC appears it will definitely have some effect on the market. I expect maximum 4x difficulty increases for awhile after they appear. Really depends if they dribble the ASIC onto the market or have mass production.

Glad to see you are on top of the situation and keeping us updated.

[Bitcoin Oz]

I wish we could short AMD on the stock exchange 

[friedcat]

When the ASIC appears it will definitely have some effect on the market. I expect maximum 4x difficulty increases for awhile after they appear. Really depends if they dribble the ASIC onto the market or have mass production.

Glad to see you are on top of the situation and keeping us updated.

Sure, thanks. Just stay tuned for the secret plan!

[nimda]

If it doesn't follow Moore's law, shouldn't it be called NOT-MOORE?

NO.MOORE

NO.LESS

Seriously, though, I'm ready for this liquid helium plan...

[rdponticelli]

If it doesn't follow Moore's law, shouldn't it be called NOT-MOORE?

NO.MOORE

NO.LESS

Seriously, though, I'm ready for this liquid helium plan...

What about MORE.THAN.MOORE? 

I'm on board for this, expecting the liquid announce...

[Bitcoin Oz]

[friedcat]

4th Payment

Calculation time: June 20, 03:59:43 forum time

Number of difficulty change: 0
Number of block reward change: 0

Time interval:
  Starting from: June 13, 04:18:48
  Ending at: June 20, 03:59:43
  Total time: 603655s
  Difficulty: 1,583,177.85

Hashrate of this week: 1.02694MH/s

coupon/share = (1.02694*10^6)/(2^32)*(603655*50/1583177.85)=0.0045584

Number of Shares: 6175

Total Payment: 28.14812

[friedcat]

Update

The first batch of MOORE is reduced from 20,000 to 10,000 shares. It's split into IPO sales and private bulk purchase. The numbers of left shares are:

IPO: 471/1000
Private: 1350/9000

Our secret plan will be released at the same time with the next coupon payment.

[BurtW]

I like what I see.  Investing some.

[piotr_n]

I like it too.

MOORE is the only mining bond, which price hasn't been collapsing for the last 2 weeks - and yet they still decided to limit the supply.

At least one mining investment that doesn't just tell you "these are bond so their price is meant to go down to zero, and you're getting what was promised so fuck off".

[EskimoBob]

... At least one mining investment that doesn't just tell you "these are bond so their price is meant to go down to zero, and you're getting what was promised so fuck off".

+1

[nimda]

The key is to invest in mining companies, not bonds. Isn't it obvious that the value of 1MH/s will always go down? On average, the difficulty increases and the block reward decreases. MOORE is nice because it's a deterministic bond which will always increase its hashpower, but there's also things like Cognitive, which is about to double its hashpower.

[Bitcoin Oz]

The key is to invest in mining companies, not bonds. Isn't it obvious that the value of 1MH/s will always go down? On average, the difficulty increases and the block reward decreases. MOORE is nice because it's a deterministic bond which will always increase its hashpower, but there's also things like Cognitive, which is about to double its hashpower.

I like both cognitive and Moore as well 

[friedcat]

The key is to invest in mining companies, not bonds. Isn't it obvious that the value of 1MH/s will always go down? On average, the difficulty increases and the block reward decreases. MOORE is nice because it's a deterministic bond which will always increase its hashpower, but there's also things like Cognitive, which is about to double its hashpower.

Well we are about to jump our hashpower by magnitudes when cheap ASIC is out. The time value of our large price spread towards normal deterministic bonds is just to get ready for these sort of things.

[friedcat]

5th Payment

Calculation time: June 27, 04:57:01 forum time

Number of difficulty change: 1
Number of block reward change: 0

Time interval:
  Starting from: June 20, 03:59:43
  Ending at: June 20, 16:11:10
  Total time: 43887s
  Difficulty: 1,583,177.85

  Starting from: June 20, 16:11:10
  Ending at: June 27, 04:57:10
  Total time: 564360s
  Difficulty: 1,726,566.56

Hashrate of this week: 1.19388MH/s

coupon/share = (1.19388*10^6)/(2^32)*(43887*50/1583177.85+564360*50/1726566.56)=0.0049283

Number of Shares: 8233

Total Payment: 40.5746939

[friedcat]

The Liquid Helium Plan

If a catastrophe comes, we can save ourselves by soaking our body with liquid helium, and wake up in a brighter future.

To cope with the panic of mining bonds, I've decided to freeze the entire earth. Now it's already 17 weeks later. You don't feel anything, but it's indeed 17 weeks later. I can feel the soft and cool breeze of the late autumn, can't you?

Anyway our contract has to be accurately executed. So we have no choice but to re-calculate our hashrate from 1.03608 to 1.19388.

The similar plan will be launched in the future if similar disaster happens.

First launch: 17 weeks, 1.03608MH/s to 1.19388MH/s.

[BurtW]

Excellent idea.  I like it!

[BurtW]

The hash rate per bond is supposed to increase a certain small amount every week. 

What he did was "skip ahead" so the hash rate went from 1.03608MH/s per bond to 1.19388MH/s per bond.

This is the equivalent of 17 weeks of increases in the hash rate per bond in only one week!!!

[Bitcoin Oz]

nom nom nom

[Bitcoin Oz]

The hash rate per bond is supposed to increase a certain small amount every week. 

What he did was "skip ahead" so the hash rate went from 1.03608MH/s per bond to 1.19388MH/s per bond.

This is the equivalent of 17 weeks of increases in the hash rate per bond in only one week!!!

omg.. I need to buy more shares o_O

ikr

Some of the mining companies will be moving to 20mh/s my guess is friedcat is easing us up to that

[friedcat]

Update

I'm now preparing for a(nother) secret project, which offers a different investment choice. The details will be fully declared soon.

As you might have already found, I am cautious and conservative towards new plans. So I will not make it public until I'm ready to.

[friedcat]

The hash rate per bond is supposed to increase a certain small amount every week. 

What he did was "skip ahead" so the hash rate went from 1.03608MH/s per bond to 1.19388MH/s per bond.

This is the equivalent of 17 weeks of increases in the hash rate per bond in only one week!!!

omg.. I need to buy more shares o_O

ikr

Some of the mining companies will be moving to 20mh/s my guess is friedcat is easing us up to that

Well we have been moving already. That's a little different from will be moving to isn't it?

And this is why I temporarily reduced the initial offering because I'm limited by my current capability and the uncertainty about the releasing of Lancelot.

[piotr_n]

Yeah. Empty promises are worthless - only actions matter.

Cheers @friedcat!

[Bitcoin Oz]

Yeah. Empty promises are worthless - only actions matter.

Cheers @friedcat!

+1

[friedcat]

5th Payment

Calculation time: July 4, 02:37:25 forum time

Number of difficulty change: 0
Number of block reward change: 0

Time interval:
  Starting from: June 27, 04:57:10
  Ending at: July 4, 02:37:25
  Total time: 596415s
  Difficulty: 1,726,566.56

Hashrate of this week: 1.20451MH/s

coupon/share = (1.20451*10^6)/(2^32)*(596415*50/1726566.56)=0.0048438

Number of Shares: 8397

Total Payment: 40.6733886

[friedcat]

5th Payment

Calculation time: July 11, 03:27:20 forum time

Number of difficulty change: 1
Number of block reward change: 0

Time interval:
  Starting from: July 4, 02:37:25
  Ending at: July 4, 11:37:21
  Total time: 32396s
  Difficulty: 1,726,566.56

  Starting from: July 4, 11:37:21
  Ending at: July 11, 03:27:20
  Total time: 575399s
  Difficulty: 1,751,454.54

Hashrate of this week: 1.21523MH/s

coupon/share = (1.21523*10^6)/(2^32)*(32396*50/1726566.56+575399*50/1751454.54)=0.0049132

Number of Shares: 8536

Total Payment: 41.9390752

[redbeans2012]

This may be answered somewhere in this thread.

But are you doing the mining here?

How is the ASIC craze going to effect moore.

I own a few shares.. Just wondering.

[friedcat]

This may be answered somewhere in this thread.

But are you doing the mining here?

How is the ASIC craze going to effect moore.

I own a few shares.. Just wondering.

Thanks for your question.

The original plan was to raise the bitcoins of MOORE sales to buy Lancelot FPGAs to expand (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=82346.msg940163#msg940163). But the imminent ASICs and the delay of Lancelot (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=79835.220) made me suspend the plan. This is also why I reduced the supply, because otherwise I wouldn't be able to support the coupon with our existing hashing power.

The arrival of ASIC will make MOORE more valuable because we will empower MOORE with our own ASIC project (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=91173.0). Before that, no more MOORE shares will be sold other than the existing open asks on GLBSE and the rest of the batch share sales in the OP. When in a very unfortunate situation where our own ASIC project doesn't work out, I will buy the best ASIC devices on the market.

[Bitcoin Oz]

Are you using MOORE funds to fund the ASIC building company ? If not are you going to create another asset to do so ?

[friedcat]

Are you using MOORE funds to fund the ASIC building company ? If not are you going to create another asset to do so ?

No. MOORE is a bond, not a stock, so I have to take all the responsibility. Investing MOORE funds to ASIC manufacture is too risky.

ASIC building is costly, although not so crazy as I thought before. It has a long waiting time (several months of producing masks), and needs a large-ish fund (150k$ in total with our current estimation). Crowdfunding of such a project has not been done before, and is hard to do. Seeking real-world investors is put on a higher priority.

[friedcat]

Are you using MOORE funds to fund the ASIC building company ? If not are you going to create another asset to do so ?

No. MOORE is a bond, not a stock, so I have to take all the responsibility. Investing MOORE funds to ASIC manufacture is too risky.

ASIC building is costly, although not so crazy as I thought before. It has a long waiting time (several months of producing masks), and needs a large-ish fund (150k$ in total with our current estimation). Crowdfunding of such a project has not been done before, and is hard to do. Seeking real-world investors is put on a higher priority.

To complement

the best scenario will be: our ASICs arrive early, then our MH/$ and return becomes very attractive. In this case, I will boost MOORE with it, then sell part of our initial products' hashing power as MOORE before we are ready to sell physical devices.

The not-so-good condition is: our ASICs are late and the whole network is already dominated by other ASICs. In this case, I will also upgrade MOORE via Liquid Helium or MOORE will be devaluated.

The worst case will be that we fail to deliver our own ASICs. In this case, MOORE will also be upgraded, but via buying other people's ASICs.

[Bitcoin Oz]

$150 k is not much when compared to other projects listed on GLBSE and  I think you would be surprised how much interest there is in a bfl competitor and even more so one that is shareholder owned.

Why not do both a bitcoin fund and a fiat one ? I would love to invest in that.

[friedcat]

$150 k is not much when compared to other projects listed on GLBSE and  I think you would be surprised how much interest there is in a bfl competitor and even more so one that is shareholder owned.

It is more complicated than that.

1. Other projects larger than $150k are all incremental, and investors could see their steady flows of return almost immediately. While our project is kind of "$150k or we could do nothing at all". The long waiting time is also a concern.

2. It is technically very hard to execute an actual shareholder ownership. For example, how could the shareholders prevent us from secretly produce a bunch of extra chips and mine and don't report to them? In normal mining companies, the shareholders have at least an estimation of how many mining devices are bought, then complain if the return doesn't match the capability of devices. But for our company, how could the shareholders watch and inspect us without a lot of energy?

Why not do both a bitcoin fund and a fiat one ? I would love to invest in that.

It is possible. But I really have no idea how much could the bitcoin fund could raise, and whether our fiat investors will give us the approval. I will think more about it.

[Bitcoin Oz]

I guess it comes down to trust after all. You can probably say that with all the glbse assets since none are enforceable by any government entity.

Making just the chips and letting other companies deal with customer support and manufacturing devices is how I wish other ASIC projects did it to distribute the mining power around.

[friedcat]

I guess it comes down to trust after all. You can probably say that with all the glbse assets since none are enforceable by any government entity.

I believe they are covered by the Civil Law in most of the countries.

Furthermore there are quantitative differences: while it is hard to ensure the contracts of mining bonds and stocks, it is even harder to guarantee ours.

Making just the chips and letting other companies deal with customer support and manufacturing devices is how I wish other ASIC projects did it to distribute the mining power around.

It is indeed a very good future direction. But as a small startup, we have to bootstrap well first and control our cost. So we have to admit that the options of mining ourselves and selling hashing power are not excluded in our first stage.

[glub0x]

Could you post a picture of the material running plz? just to see my bitcoins generating others !
(and eventually the liquid helium machine that freeze the all world last time )

[friedcat]

Could you post a picture of the material running plz? just to see my bitcoins generating others !
(and eventually the liquid helium machine that freeze the all world last time )

This was the mining farm of (finway) we original planned to use to pay the coupons while waiting for the expansion to Lancelot (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=79835.0). But since the Lancelot delivery was delayed indefinitely, and the ASICs are imminent, he sold the farm with half of the original price to buy BFL ASICs. I started my own ASIC project at roughly the same time, so we also suspended our deal.



I am now supporting about a half of the coupons with normal mining bonds of which the issuers plan to upgrade, and the other half with my own coins. This is also why I reduced the supply. Therefore in a word we are now still at stage-1 in the OP with "other assets" clause, and due to no appropriate hardware choice, we haven't switched to stage-2 yet.

If you consider this as a big problem, I am now placing the bid wall at 0.5BTC to buy back. But if you believe that my ASIC project will finally work out, or I will get the BFL ASICs after they really delivered something and increase the hashrate proportionally, you could hold MOORE for a little longer.

[friedcat]

6th Payment

Calculation time: July 18, 04:17:09 forum time

Number of difficulty change: 1
Number of block reward change: 0

Time interval:

  Starting from: July 11, 03:27:20
  Ending at: July 17, 14:55:05
  Total time: 559665s
  Difficulty: 1,751,454.54

  Starting from: July 17, 14:55:05
  Ending at: July 18, 04:17:09
  Total time: 48124s
  Difficulty: 1,866,391.31

Hashrate of this week: 1.22605MH/s

coupon/share = (1.22605*10^6)/(2^32)*(559665*50/1751454.54+48124*50/1,866,391.31)=0.0049289

Number of Shares: 8404

Total Payment: 41.4224756

[finway]

Could you post a picture of the material running plz? just to see my bitcoins generating others !
(and eventually the liquid helium machine that freeze the all world last time )

This was the mining farm of (finway) we original planned to use to pay the coupons while waiting for the expansion to Lancelot (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=79835.0). But since the Lancelot delivery was delayed indefinitely, and the ASICs are imminent, he sold the farm with half of the original price to buy BFL ASICs. I started my own ASIC project at roughly the same time, so we also suspended our deal.



I am now supporting about a half of the coupons with normal mining bonds of which the issuers plan to upgrade, and the other half with my own coins. This is also why I reduced the supply. Therefore in a word we are now still at stage-1 in the OP with "other assets" clause, and due to no appropriate hardware choice, we haven't switched to stage-2 yet.

If you consider this as a big problem, I am now placing the bid wall at 0.5BTC to buy back. But if you believe that my ASIC project will finally work out, or I will get the BFL ASICs after they really delivered something and increase the hashrate proportionally, you could hold MOORE for a little longer.

That's my farm, mining for about a year, sold for half the buy-in price. 
2013 will be the ASIC year.

[friedcat]

Could you post a picture of the material running plz? just to see my bitcoins generating others !
(and eventually the liquid helium machine that freeze the all world last time )

This was the mining farm of (finway) we original planned to use to pay the coupons while waiting for the expansion to Lancelot (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=79835.0). But since the Lancelot delivery was delayed indefinitely, and the ASICs are imminent, he sold the farm with half of the original price to buy BFL ASICs. I started my own ASIC project at roughly the same time, so we also suspended our deal.



I am now supporting about a half of the coupons with normal mining bonds of which the issuers plan to upgrade, and the other half with my own coins. This is also why I reduced the supply. Therefore in a word we are now still at stage-1 in the OP with "other assets" clause, and due to no appropriate hardware choice, we haven't switched to stage-2 yet.

If you consider this as a big problem, I am now placing the bid wall at 0.5BTC to buy back. But if you believe that my ASIC project will finally work out, or I will get the BFL ASICs after they really delivered something and increase the hashrate proportionally, you could hold MOORE for a little longer.

That's my farm, mining for about a year, sold for half the buy-in price. 
2013 will be the ASIC year.

Thanks. I believe they will be dominating earlier than 2013 though.

[friedcat]

Update

As everyone knows and mentioned several times before, the releasing date of Lancelot FPGAs is still unknown. And it is believed by me that at least one brand of dedicated mining ASICs will be in the market within this year. So I probably won't buy any kind of current generation's mining devices.

Therefore we have two choices now. One is to empower MOORE with my own ASIC project when it succeeds (estimated deploying time at October-November this year), the other is to buy BFL ASICs. In both cases I will continue to pay coupons and increase the hashrate steadily by 0.89% per week before suddenly pulling the hashrate up with the help of new mining rigs with a new execution of the new Liquid Helium plan.

The estimation of the first choice is about 200-300MH/(second*share).
The estimation of the second choice is about 50-100MH/(second*share).

Both are based on the current price level of Bitcoin. The 0.89% growth will still be maintained after the upgrade.

Considering the second choice, which is (in my opinion) worse, I will buy SC Singles or SC Mini Rigs after there's solid proof that they are already there. But I hope that our own ASICs will be manufactured and deployed smoothly so that both the upgrading date and the target hashrates will be much better.

Of course, some of the investors do oppose to both of the choices, or do not like the status quo. I'm buying back at 0.5BTC/s, which is the same as the historical highest market price. Don't panic sell at the price below 0.5 when the bid wall is taken down, if you don't need the money immediately. Because I will always buy back at 0.5, even if I discover that everyone is against the plan and wants to be out.

[nimda]

I will always buy back at 0.5

Now that just makes me as an investor feel all warm inside

[piotr_n]

I will always buy back at 0.5

Now that just makes me as an investor feel all warm inside

Especially after I bought some at <0.45

Thanks, friedcat! You always find a way to positively surprise me again..

[BurtW]

Best mining bond on the market.

[Bitcoin Oz]

Best mining bond on the market.

+1

[glub0x]

I will always buy back at 0.5

Now that just makes me as an investor feel all warm inside

Especially after I bought some at <0.45

Thanks, friedcat! You always find a way to positively surprise me again..

+1
i took a few at 0.39

thx for the picture btw.

Best mining bond on the market.

+1

[Btc4Domains]

I will always buy back at 0.5

Now that just makes me as an investor feel all warm inside

I like that you back your own asset friedcat.

[friedcat]

7th Payment

Calculation time: July 25, 03:14:26 forum time

Number of difficulty change: 0
Number of block reward change: 0

Time interval:

  Starting from: July 18, 04:17:09
  Ending at: July 25, 03:14:26
  Total time: 601037s
  Difficulty: 1,866,391.31

Hashrate of this week: 1.23696MH/s

coupon/share = (1.23696*10^6)/(2^32)*(601037*50/1,866,391.31)=0.0046373

Number of Shares: 5696

Total Payment: 26.4140608

[nimda]

If you don't mind my asking, why did it come in 3 parts over the span of more than an hour? Not angry or anything, just curious.

[friedcat]

If you don't mind my asking, why did it come in 3 parts over the span of more than an hour? Not angry or anything, just curious.

I'm sorry. It's a sequence of payments initiated by a typo.

The span is less than an hour (41-25=16 minutes in my record). The third payment is a (1 satoshi/share) payment to cover the rounding error. I hadn't noticed this difference until I recalled the satoshi-based integer representation of Bitcoin amounts in the GLBSE system 10 minutes later, therefore it's sixteen minutes instead of two.

[nimda]

Oops. I read 2012-07-24 23:41:46 as 2012-07-24 24:41:46
In any case, I bought mo(o)re!

[friedcat]

Oops. I read 2012-07-24 23:41:46 as 2012-07-24 24:41:46
In any case, I bought mo(o)re!

Thanks.  And sorry again for the confusion brought.

[friedcat]

8th Payment

Calculation time: August 1, 03:58:02 forum time

Number of difficulty change: 1
Number of block reward change: 0

Time interval:

  Starting from: July 25, 03:14:26
  Ending at: July 30, 10:53:56
  Total time: 459570
  Difficulty: 1,866,391.31

  Starting from: July 30, 10:53:56
  Ending at: August 1, 03:58:02
  Total time: 147846
  Difficulty: 2,036,671.09

Hashrate of this week: 1.24797MH/s

coupon/share = (1.24797*10^6)/(2^32)*(459570*50/1,866,391.31+147846*50/2,036,671.09)=0.0046320

Number of Shares: 5540

Total Payment: 25.66128

[friedcat]

9th Payment

Calculation time: August 8, 02:53:19 forum time

Number of difficulty change: 0
Number of block reward change: 0

Time interval:

  Starting from: August 1, 03:58:02
  Ending at: August 8, 02:53:19
  Total time: 600917
  Difficulty: 2,036,671.09

Hashrate of this week: 1.25907MH/s

coupon/share = (1.25907*10^6)/(2^32)*(600917*50/2,036,671.09)=0.0043247

Number of Shares: 5153

Total Payment: 22.2851791

[friedcat]

10th Payment

Calculation time: August 15, 05:02:08 forum time

Number of difficulty change: 1
Number of block reward change: 0

Time interval:

  Starting from: August 8, 02:53:19
  Ending at: August 12, 11:47:26
  Total time: 377647
  Difficulty: 2,036,671.09

  Starting from: August 12, 11:47:26
  Ending at: August 15, 05:02:08
  Total time: 234882
  Difficulty: 2,190,865.97

Hashrate of this week: 1.27028MH/s

coupon/share = (1.27028*10^6)/(2^32)*(377647*50/2,036,671.09+234882*50/2,190,865.97)=0.0043275

Number of Shares: 5000

Total Payment: 21.6375

[friedcat]

11st Payment

Calculation time: August 22, 05:58:58 forum time

Number of difficulty change: 0
Number of block reward change: 0

Time interval:

  Starting from: August 15, 05:02:08
  Ending at: August 22, 05:58:58
  Total time: 608210
  Difficulty: 2,190,865.97

Hashrate of this week: 1.28159MH/s

coupon/share = (1.28159*10^6)/(2^32)*(608210*50/2,190,865.97)=0.0041419

Number of Shares: 4968

Total Payment: 20.5769592

[friedcat]

12nd Payment

Calculation time: August 29, 06:14:34 forum time

Number of difficulty change: 1
Number of block reward change: 0

Time interval:

  Starting from: August 22, 05:58:58
  Ending at: August 25 01:46:39
  Total time: 244061s
  Difficulty: 2,190,865.97

  Starting from: August 25 01:46:39
  Ending at: August 29, 06:14:34
  Total time: 361675s
  Difficulty: 2,440,642.61

Hashrate of this week: 1.29299MH/s

coupon/share = (1.29299*10^6)/(2^32)*(244061*50/2,190,865.97+361675*50/2,440,642.61)=0.0039074

Number of Shares: 4851

Total Payment: 18.9547974

[intel-core-i7]

this bond is awesome (cause of the auto-reinvesting part).
Thanks for the last dividend. Enjoy our lended money and make good use of it.

[friedcat]

Update

Tomorrow I will only have the internet access in the evening (Beijing time), so please expect about a 6-10 hours delay of coupon payment. Thanks.

[friedcat]

13rd Payment

Calculation time: September 5, 13:05:22 forum time

Number of difficulty change: 0
Number of block reward change: 0

Time interval:

  Starting from: August 29, 06:14:34
  Ending at: September 5, 13:05:22
  Total time: 629448s
  Difficulty: 2,440,642.61

Hashrate of this week: 1.30450MH/s

coupon/share = (1.30450*10^6)/(2^32)*(629448*50/2,440,642.61)=0.0039166

Number of Shares: 4048

Total Payment: 15.8543968

[friedcat]

14th Payment

Calculation time: September 12, 05:32:20 forum time

Number of difficulty change: 1
Number of block reward change: 0

Time interval:

  Starting from: September 5, 13:05:22
  Ending at: September 6, 18:10:24
  Total time: 104702s
  Difficulty: 2,440,642.61

  Starting from: September 6, 18:10:24
  Ending at: September 12, 05:32:20
  Total time: 472916s
  Difficulty: 2,694,047.95

Hashrate of this week: 1.31611MH/s

coupon/share = (1.31611*10^6)/(2^32)*(104702*50/2,440,642.61+472916*50/2,694,047.95)=0.0033468

Number of Shares: 4048

Total Payment: 13.5478464

[BinaryMage]

I think you meant "Hashrate of this week: 1.31611 MH/s", not 1.30450 MH/s, as the latter was last week's.

[friedcat]

I think you meant "Hashrate of this week: 1.31611 MH/s", not 1.30450 MH/s, as the latter was last week's.

Thanks. Sorry for the typo. The calculation is indeed based on 1.31611 though.

[EskimoBob]

friedcat, how your predictions from page 1 hold up? Have you made any charts with actual historic data and superimposed the results on predictions?
If yes, can you post it?

[intel-core-i7]

naaaice, dividends . I like this bond. Friedcat can be trusted - after I've done my research.Thanks man.

[nimda]

friedcat, how does one go about selling the bonds back to you at 0.5?

(Yes, I only ask because there's a couple hundred selling under 0.5)

[friedcat]

friedcat, how does one go about selling the bonds back to you at 0.5?

(Yes, I only ask because there's a couple hundred selling under 0.5)

It is always valid. You could see it from the dividends record.

I have been doing the buying-back mainly via putting bidding walls. There was also a large buying back that's directly from me via GLBSE asset transferring.

[friedcat]

friedcat, how your predictions from page 1 hold up? Have you made any charts with actual historic data and superimposed the results on predictions?
If yes, can you post it?

The actual results are closer to the very prediction of a persistent difficulty increasing. The data could be fetched from the dividends record in GLBSE.

However, we have boosted the hashrate/share once like a transition. We will do a much more dramatic upgrade of hashrate/share when the ASICMINER project succeeds. After that, MOORE may be used as a window for selling some of the hashing power of ASICMINER. It is also possible that the MOORE will be under the management of ASICMINER instead of me the individual.

[Bitcoin Oz]

friedcat, how your predictions from page 1 hold up? Have you made any charts with actual historic data and superimposed the results on predictions?
If yes, can you post it?

The actual results are closer to the very prediction of a persistent difficulty increasing. The data could be fetched from the dividends record in GLBSE.

However, we have boosted the hashrate/share once like a transition. We will do a much more dramatic upgrade of hashrate/share when the ASICMINER project succeeds. After that, MOORE may be used as a window for selling some of the hashing power of ASICMINER. It is also possible that the MOORE will be under the management of ASICMINER instead of me the individual.

How does ASIC mining differ in calculating how much the hashrate will rise each week ?

[friedcat]

How does ASIC mining differ in calculating how much the hashrate will rise each week ?

It will be done as the one before: when upgrade with ASICMINER, we directly push X weeks ahead, resulting in a jump of (1+0.89%)^X, then grow by 0.89% each week as usual.

[friedcat]

15th Payment

Calculation time: September 19, 06:39:24 forum time

Number of difficulty change: 0
Number of block reward change: 0

Time interval:

  Starting from: September 12, 05:32:20
  Ending at: September 19, 06:39:24
  Total time: 608824s
  Difficulty: 2,694,047.95

Hashrate of this week: 1.32782MH/s

coupon/share = (1.32782*10^6)/(2^32)*(608824*50/2,694,047.95)=0.0034933

Number of Shares: 4048

Total Payment: 14.1408784

[SebastianJu]

How does ASIC mining differ in calculating how much the hashrate will rise each week ?

It will be done as the one before: when upgrade with ASICMINER, we directly push X weeks ahead, resulting in a jump of (1+0.89%)^X, then grow by 0.89% each week as usual.

Whats X?

Maybe you can say a range where x will lie in? Or is it like it was with the liquid helium plan?

[friedcat]

How does ASIC mining differ in calculating how much the hashrate will rise each week ?

It will be done as the one before: when upgrade with ASICMINER, we directly push X weeks ahead, resulting in a jump of (1+0.89%)^X, then grow by 0.89% each week as usual.

Whats X?

Maybe you can say a range where x will lie in? Or is it like it was with the liquid helium plan?

X will lie in the range to keep the price level at 0.5. It will probably a much bigger number than the original liquid helium plan's. If the exchange rate does not change, please expect the original estimation:

Therefore we have two choices now. One is to empower MOORE with my own ASIC project when it succeeds (estimated deploying time at October-November this year), the other is to buy BFL ASICs. In both cases I will continue to pay coupons and increase the hashrate steadily by 0.89% per week before suddenly pulling the hashrate up with the help of new mining rigs with a new execution of the new Liquid Helium plan.

The estimation of the first choice is about 200-300MH/(second*share).
The estimation of the second choice is about 50-100MH/(second*share).

Both are based on the current price level of Bitcoin. The 0.89% growth will still be maintained after the upgrade.

And if at that time, the market tells me the hashrate/share is too high, I will raise the price when selling more. If too low, I will push the hashrate higher.

[friedcat]

16th Payment

Calculation time: September 26, 10:30:18 forum time

Number of difficulty change: 1
Number of block reward change: 0

Time interval:

  Starting from: September 19, 06:39:24
  Ending at: September 19, 22:13:25
  Total time: 56041s
  Difficulty: 2,694,047.95

  Starting from: September 19, 22:13:25
  Ending at: September 26, 10:30:18
  Total time: 562613s
  Difficulty: 2,864,140.50

Hashrate of this week: 1.33964MH/s

coupon/share = (1.33964*10^6)/(2^32)*(56041*50/2,694,047.95+562613*50/2,864,140.50)=0.0033879

Number of Shares: 3961

Total Payment: 13.4194719

[friedcat]

17th Payment

Calculation time: October 3, 09:04:10 forum time

Number of difficulty change: 1
Number of block reward change: 0

Time interval:

  Starting from: September 26, 10:30:18
  Ending at: October 3, 01:17:01
  Total time: 571603s
  Difficulty: 2,864,140.50

  Starting from: October 3, 01:17:01
  Ending at: October 3, 09:04:10
  Total time: 28029s
  Difficulty: 3,054,627.53

Hashrate of this week: 1.35156MH/s

coupon/share = (1.35156*10^6)/(2^32)*(571603*50/2,864,140.50+28029*50/3,054,627.53)=0.0032845

Number of Shares: 3958

Total Payment: 13.000051

[Tachikoma]

What's the plan now that GLBSE has closed? 

[greyhawk]

It's a secret.

[friedcat]

What's the plan now that GLBSE has closed? 

The shareholder data will be transferred and maintained as soon as we get it from GLBSE.

Before the things settle down, all coupons will be (linearly) accumulated.

[Tachikoma]

Thanks for the update.

[friedcat]

18th Week's Coupon Pre-Calculation

Calculation time: October 10, 10:51:06 forum time

Number of difficulty change: 0
Number of block reward change: 0

Time interval:

  Starting from: October 3, 09:04:10
  Ending at: October 10, 10:51:06
  Total time: 611216s
  Difficulty: 3,054,627.53

Hashrate of this week: 1.36359

coupon/share = (1.36359*10^6)/(2^32)*(611216*50/3,054,627.53)=0.0031764

Number of Shares: 3958

Total Payment: 12.5721912

(The payment will be linearly accumulated till we are able to pay)

[Bitcoin Oz]

Thanks friedcat. Ive got a few shares locked up in  glbse 

[friedcat]

Update

In case of the possibility we could not receive the shareholders data, we begin collecting the claims ourselves.

Please send to (fnnirvana@gmail.com) your number of shares and your Bitcoin address for receiving dividends. Please annotate that they are MOORE shares to avoid confusion with ASICMINER or MU shares. You could accompany them with any evidence you think is OK to provide. It is highly recommended that you use an address that you have its private key. By that, you may enjoy more facilities provided by our future automatic migrating platform.

[friedcat]

19th Week's Coupon Pre-Calculation

Calculation time: October 17, 11:18:23 forum time

Number of difficulty change: 1
Number of block reward change: 0

Time interval:

  Starting from: October 10, 10:51:06
  Ending at: October 16, 16 22:56:08
  Total time: 561902s
  Difficulty: 3,054,627.53

  Starting from: October 16, 16 22:56:08
  Ending at: October 17, 11:18:23
  Total time: 44535s
  Difficulty: 3,072,321.73

Hashrate of this week: 1.37573

coupon/share = (1.37573*10^6)/(2^32)*(561902*50/3,054,627.53+44535*50/3,072,321.73)=0.0031782

Number of Shares: 3958

Total Payment: 12.5721912 (last accumulated) + 12.5793156 (this week) = 25.1515068

(The payment will be linearly accumulated till we are able to pay)

[friedcat]

20th Week's Coupon Pre-Calculation

Calculation time: October 24, 12:15:35 forum time

Number of difficulty change: 0
Number of block reward change: 0

Time interval:

  Starting from: October 17, 11:18:23
  Ending at: October 24, 12:15:35
  Total time: 608232s
  Difficulty: 3,072,321.73

Hashrate of this week: 1.38797

coupon/share = (1.38797*10^6)/(2^32)*(608232*50/3,072,321.73)=0.0031988

Number of Shares: 3958

Total Payment: 25.1515068 (last accumulated) + 12.6608504 (this week) = 37.8123572

(The payment will be linearly accumulated till we are able to pay)

[friedcat]

21st Week's Coupon Pre-Calculation

Calculation time: October 31, 11:00:08 forum time

Number of difficulty change: 1
Number of block reward change: 0

Time interval:

  Starting from: October 24, 12:15:35
  Ending at: October 29, 23:20:30
  Total time: 471895s
  Difficulty: 3,072,321.73

  Starting from: October 29, 23:20:30
  Ending at: October 31, 11:00:08
  Total time: 128378s
  Difficulty: 3,304,356.39

Hashrate of this week: 1.40032

coupon/share = (1.40032*10^6)/(2^32)*(471895*50/3,072,321.73+128378*50/3,304,356.39)=0.0031372

Number of Shares: 3958

Total Payment: 37.8123572 (last accumulated) + 12.4170376 (this week) = 50.2293948

(The payment will be linearly accumulated till we are able to pay)

[friedcat]

22nd Week's Coupon Pre-Calculation

Calculation time: November 7, 10:40:22 forum time

Number of difficulty change: 0
Number of block reward change: 0

Time interval:

  Starting from: October 31, 11:00:08
  Ending at: November 7, 10:40:22
  Total time: 603614s
  Difficulty: 3,304,356.39

Hashrate of this week: 1.41279

coupon/share = (1.41279*10^6)/(2^32)*(603614*50/3,304,356.39)=0.0030044

Number of Shares: 3958

Total Payment: 50.2293948 (last accumulated) + 11.8914152 (this week) = 62.12081

(The payment will be linearly accumulated till we are able to pay)

[friedcat]

Update

To any shareholders who haven't made claims yet, please report your shares to
(fnnirvana@gmail.com) with your e-mail address, your number of shares, and your
Bitcoin address.

The collection of claims could not last forever. We would in principle stop collecting
claims on forum time 23:59:59, Nov. 18th. Any claims after that should come with
very solid proof.

If you have friends or known people who don't visit this forum often, please do us
a favor to tell notify them.

And please keep in mind that this is only a backup plan on the event that GLBSE fails
to give any data.

[jackmaninov]

Do you have any advice to shareholders that are unsure of how many shares they owned at the time the GLBSE stopped providing any data? I unfortunately didn't have an up-to-date copy of my CSV file when they went down

[Akka]

Do you have any advice to shareholders that are unsure of how many shares they owned at the time the GLBSE stopped providing any data? I unfortunately didn't have an up-to-date copy of my CSV file when they went down

Same here, I have no Idea how many share I had. I didn't keep much attention to it, just occasionally bought some when they where cheap. What should I claim? A random number that looks nice? The only thing I know is that I had (have?) shares.

[friedcat]

Do you have any advice to shareholders that are unsure of how many shares they owned at the time the GLBSE stopped providing any data? I unfortunately didn't have an up-to-date copy of my CSV file when they went down

Same here, I have no Idea how many share I had. I didn't keep much attention to it, just occasionally bought some when they where cheap. What should I claim? A random number that looks nice? The only thing I know is that I had (have?) shares.

Please claim a number that is closest to your memory if no other way works. Without real GLBSE data, we don't have many choices.

Again this is a backup plan for emergency and we don't expect the possibility of us getting no data from GLBSE to be high.

[friedcat]

Update

To any shareholders who haven't made claims yet, please report your shares to
(fnnirvana@gmail.com) with your e-mail address, your number of shares, and your
Bitcoin address.

The collection of claims could not last forever. We would in principle stop collecting
claims on forum time 23:59:59, Nov. 18th. Any claims after that should come with
very solid proof.

If you have friends or known people who don't visit this forum often, please do us
a favor to tell notify them.

And please keep in mind that this is only a backup plan on the event that GLBSE fails
to give any data.

This is a remind that the normal claim process will expire on forum time 23:59:59, Nov. 18th.

[friedcat]

23rd Week's Coupon Pre-Calculation

Calculation time: November 15, 04:57:47 forum time

Number of difficulty change: 1
Number of block reward change: 0

Time interval:

  Starting from: November 7, 10:40:22
  Ending at: November 12, 17:51:11
  Total time: 457849s
  Difficulty: 3,304,356.39

  Starting from: November 12, 17:51:11
  Ending at: November 15, 04:57:47
  Total time: 212796s
  Difficulty: 3,368,767.14

Hashrate of this week: 1.42536

coupon/share = (1.42536*10^6)/(2^32)*(457849*50/3,304,356.39+212796*50/3,368,767.14)=0.0033473

Number of Shares: 3958

Total Payment: 62.12081 (last accumulated) + 13.2486134 (this week) = 75.3694234

(The payment will be linearly accumulated till we are able to pay)

[Bitcoin Oz]

Could you set this up again on btct.co ?

[friedcat]

24th and 25th Week's Coupon Pre-Calculation

Calculation time: November 28, 06:57:22 forum time

Number of difficulty change: 1
Number of block reward change: 0

Time interval:

  Starting from: November 15, 04:57:47
  Ending at: November 26, 11:08:37
  Total time: 972650s
  Difficulty: 3,368,767.14

  Starting from: November 26, 11:08:37
  Ending at: November 28, 06:57:22
  Total time: 157725s
  Difficulty: 3,438,908.96

Hashrate of this week: 1.43805

coupon/share = (1.43805*10^6)/(2^32)*(972650*50/3,368,767.14+157725*50/3,438,908.96)=0.0056014

Number of Shares: 3958

Total Payment: 75.3694234 (last accumulated) + 22.1703412 (recent two weeks) = 97.5397646

(The payment will be linearly accumulated till we are able to pay)

[friedcat]

Update

Could you set this up again on btct.co ?

We will set MOORE up again with MU and ASICMINER. We will decide which one to switch when the shareholder data
is more or less fixed. With our own collection of shareholder information, we have only collected 1,295 shares out of the
total 3,958 shares in circulation. So we would like to wait for the information from GLBSE and come up with a more complete
set.

Here is the recent update from GLBSE:

Nov 25 / 12:00pm
More lists coming out tomorrow
by James McCarthy

I'll be sending out updated lists by tomorrow afternoon.

Ther will also be some new lists sent out for some issuers.

Got a lot of email over the weekend, if I've not replied please bear with me, I'm a bit snowed under.

He already gave out a couple of lists worth some days. Taking out the last weekend he isnt way too behind his plans. I hope its this way... at least he is still in contact.

Nefario is not in contact as usual, but one of his friends is. We got the information of "I think he has released most of the major stock classes funds" today, but haven't received anything in our mailbox. We have checked again with our account name provided and are waiting for responses.

The upgrade plan still holds. The shares will be upgraded no matter our ASICMINER succeeds soon or not. But the upgraded hash/share will depend on whether we use our own hardware or other vendors.

[burnside]

Could you set this up again on btct.co ?

+1

[friedcat]

Could you set this up again on btct.co ?

+1

We will set it up on another platform, but not necessarily btct.co.

And before that, I will first make the accumulated payment as soon as I finish comparing and confirming the
GLBSE data with the user claims, of which both are incomplete.

[Garr255]

Could you set this up again on btct.co ?

+1

+1

I welcome some friendly competition

[friedcat]

Update

This is a quick update indicating that:

1. Confirmation mails have been sent to all shareholders who have different Bitcoin addresses claimed to GLBSE and to us.
2. All newly generated coupons are still accumulated into the first big payment when 2 is done.

More updates will be given soon.

[friedcat]

Update

Sorry for a long period before last update but the ASICMINER project has taken most of the time and energy. The confirmations are nearly all-collected. The weekly payment of coupons will resume in 16th, Jan. 2013 in forum time.

As planned, the second time of rising the hashrate in each share will start at some time after the ASICMINER project succeeds its first deploying of hashpower.

In the long run, MOORE will be used either a mechanism of selling hashrates of ASICMINER, or stay as my personal contract to shareholders. Both are possible, but the decision is not at a highest priority in our short-term plan.

[jackmaninov]

Just a question: Will shareholders that are on the GLBSE claim list but didn't submit a private claim to you (as I really have no recollection of how many shares I owned) be eligible for further ownership of MOORE?

[glub0x]

So it's been a while i didn't think of moore, is there any significant improvment on the recovering process of your shares?

[friedcat]

Just a question: Will shareholders that are on the GLBSE claim list but didn't submit a private claim to you (as I really have no recollection of how many shares I owned) be eligible for further ownership of MOORE?

Of course. Just like ASICMINER, the GLBSE data finally added up to the original sum of share number, so it would be the basis of the calculation.

[Monster Tent]

This is just a warning. You are headed for a scammer thread if this asset isnt relisted on another exchange and all back dividends paid to the asset holders soon. Just because ASICMINER is getting all the attention doesnt mean you can scam the holders of other assets you issued.

You have been given the asset holder lists and theres plenty of other exchanges available that let you easily import the lists so you might want to deal with it the sooner the better if you want to avoid a tag.

[friedcat]

This is just a warning. You are headed for a scammer thread if this asset isnt relisted on another exchange and all back dividends paid to the asset holders soon. Just because ASICMINER is getting all the attention doesnt mean you can scam the holders of other assets you issued.

You have been given the asset holder lists and theres plenty of other exchanges available that let you easily import the lists so you might want to deal with it the sooner the better if you want to avoid a tag.

The resuming of payment already started in the last week (2013-01-17 11:30:39). This is the first one, with all accumulated coupons (0.0366847BTC per share):
https://blockchain.info/tx/28f804a3d97298d413575712cb5413c07b098813e1f5f90ec1c8dd941dce47ab
here is the test payment that is 1 satoshi per transaction before the real payment:
https://blockchain.info/tx/29b1864321a918bc7b8c5d243f095a4fe8e1572db2a2e6786b98c802712638ec
The total number is 2754-26=2728. With the two different shareholders with 26 shares in total. Their GLBSE data only holds e-mail address and share number. We haven't successfully contacted yet for addresses.

The difference between 3958 and 2728 is our bought-back shares with another account before GLBSE shut down.

As an overdue fine, the hashrate per share in all weeks is also increased to the last week's instead gradually increasing per week.

The receiving addresses are based on the GLBSE data, with ~10 changed to the e-mail I received as confirmation of preferring the address claimed to us.

The re-listing will be done at the same time of ASICMINER's. And of course before that, weekly coupons are already stated paying, so they will be paid like the transaction like the above transactions.

[Tachikoma]

I can confirm I received my dividends from MOORE.

[BurtW]

I can confirm I received my dividends from MOORE.

Also got mine.  Thanks!

[Jimmy2011]

I just sent an email to Friedcat to claim my shares, if it is possible. Sorry for my late claim.

This is just a warning. You are headed for a scammer thread if this asset isnt relisted on another exchange and all back dividends paid to the asset holders soon. Just because ASICMINER is getting all the attention doesnt mean you can scam the holders of other assets you issued.

You have been given the asset holder lists and theres plenty of other exchanges available that let you easily import the lists so you might want to deal with it the sooner the better if you want to avoid a tag.

The resuming of payment already started in the last week (2013-01-17 11:30:39). This is the first one, with all accumulated coupons (0.0366847BTC per share):
https://blockchain.info/tx/28f804a3d97298d413575712cb5413c07b098813e1f5f90ec1c8dd941dce47ab
here is the test payment that is 1 satoshi per transaction before the real payment:
https://blockchain.info/tx/29b1864321a918bc7b8c5d243f095a4fe8e1572db2a2e6786b98c802712638ec
The total number is 2754-26=2728. With the two different shareholders with 26 shares in total. Their GLBSE data only holds e-mail address and share number. We haven't successfully contacted yet for addresses.

The difference between 3958 and 2728 is our bought-back shares with another account before GLBSE shut down.

As an overdue fine, the hashrate per share in all weeks is also increased to the last week's instead gradually increasing per week.

The receiving addresses are based on the GLBSE data, with ~10 changed to the e-mail I received as confirmation of preferring the address claimed to us.

The re-listing will be done at the same time of ASICMINER's. And of course before that, weekly coupons are already stated paying, so they will be paid like the transaction like the above transactions.

[DiabloD3]

This is just a warning. You are headed for a scammer thread if this asset isnt relisted on another exchange and all back dividends paid to the asset holders soon. Just because ASICMINER is getting all the attention doesnt mean you can scam the holders of other assets you issued.

You have been given the asset holder lists and theres plenty of other exchanges available that let you easily import the lists so you might want to deal with it the sooner the better if you want to avoid a tag.

Troll much? friedcat has already made it clear hes setting up a private exchange to handle all of his assets, including MOORE and ASICMINER. He no longer trusts any exchange enough to handle his assets.

[Jimmy2011]

My dividends from MOORE were confirmed.
Friedcat's work are appreciated.

[burnside]

Where are things with MOORE these days?

I don't think I've seen a MOORE div in a while?

Cheers.

[rdponticelli]

MOORE dividends are been paid periodically. They're just not posted in the thread.

BTW. If anybody wants to sell some, shoot me a PM.

[burnside]

MOORE dividends are been paid periodically. They're just not posted in the thread.

BTW. If anybody wants to sell some, shoot me a PM.

Ahhh, ok.  I need to go back through my records I think and figure out what address I gave Friedcat.

[PinkBatman]

So what is our effective hashrate per share now?

[DiabloD3]

So what is our effective hashrate per share now?

Approximately two and a half watermelons.

[nebulus]

Lol

[Newar]

MOORE dividends are been paid periodically. They're just not posted in the thread.

BTW. If anybody wants to sell some, shoot me a PM.

Ahhh, ok.  I need to go back through my records I think and figure out what address I gave Friedcat.

Most recent divs: https://blockchain.info/tx/871d40b58d61cebf685b7273a55847552fcbebcf68fe6ce65a4a8e503bc179e9

[burnside]

MOORE dividends are been paid periodically. They're just not posted in the thread.

BTW. If anybody wants to sell some, shoot me a PM.

Ahhh, ok.  I need to go back through my records I think and figure out what address I gave Friedcat.

Most recent divs: https://blockchain.info/tx/871d40b58d61cebf685b7273a55847552fcbebcf68fe6ce65a4a8e503bc179e9

I found 'em!  Thanks Newar, that helped me figure out where to look. 

[Newar]

Was there a double dividend?

Status: 486 confirmations
Date: 7/28/13 10:56
From: unknown
To: 1xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (own address, label: MOORE)
Credit: 0.01229473 BTC
Net amount: +0.01229473 BTC
Transaction ID: d7c6d0f4b72d16494684f6f11d7a5a651b51709136920e4fa2c2bbd2b4f52e66

Status: 485 confirmations
Date: 7/28/13 11:15
From: unknown
To: 1xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (own address, label: MOORE)
Credit: 0.01229473 BTC
Net amount: +0.01229473 BTC
Transaction ID: c1e56517ae6b0d20ba7dc10554eb5764b76ccedf3bcdc8a9b094939c82f3ef1f

[DeaDTerra]

Looking to sell 774 MOORE shares.
//DeaDTerra

[zapeta]

Looking to sell 774 MOORE shares.
//DeaDTerra

Good luck.  I figure they're basically worthless except for the small trickle of dividends that roll in.

[jackmaninov]

I haven't seen any MOORE dividends in quite some time. Does anyone know if this business is still alive or dead?

[Newar]

I haven't seen any MOORE dividends in quite some time. Does anyone know if this business is still alive or dead?

I was wondering too. Looking at the payout history it seems the intervals got longer and longer. Maybe this is to allow for "more substantial amounts" to build up. friedcat is still around, but presumably "busy".

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=49840;sa=showPosts

[jackmaninov]

It would be nice if there was something official posted about MOORE being discontinued...