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pharesim
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August 13, 2015, 10:43:26 AM
 #2161

Wow, so much drama.

In the Expanse thread there's even accusations that the recent drop was because of insider sell-offs before the foundation announcement. I can guarantee that this wasn't the case. Creating a foundation was planned since weeks, but nobody knew it would be announced when it was. I did it pretty spontaneous that night.
And now people even get fishy about team members receiving the equivalent of 1 BTC/month for their work. Whoever you are, you suck. We're not your slaves, and it wasn't even your money. And most important: You could've been part of that team too, if you wanted (and brought some skills). We've never been a closed circle.

@GoldenEye: sorry to see you go, but that was to be expected when the node bounties start running out, wasn't it?
As a long time supporter you should be aware about what we went through. You should know that of those 138M to founders you decry, 100M were stolen by silverNxt a year ago. Having our main dev betray us was a huge draw-back, and if it wasn't about Pizpie and the CCC crew we probably would've given up at that time.
We had coders come and go then, and it took a while, some more drama, and more work for us to get someone worth their bounties. That's where MaWo came in, and again, without him HZ would be long dead.
Regarding bounties in general, the slogan for NHZ was "distributed by bounties", not "distributed to nodes". The whole idea was to recruit talent by paying them bounties for their work. The results of that have been mixed, most contributors dumped and disappeared more sooner than later. The node bounty being the main means of distribution was not planned, it was thought as a way to include those who can't help in a really productive way. But we just couldn't find as many reliable persons who'd stick around to receive something for real work.

So here we are, making plans how to keep HZ alive, and it's sad to see so many "supporters" falling into our backs now. We _need_ funds to incentivize people to work with us in the future, and to pay for regular expenses. The chances of finding someone to seriously contribute aren't too big, and that those 50M need to last for a while and we have to be close-fisted at payouts doesn't make it easier.

So what changed? We're concentrating on development, and give everyone who's interested the possibility to decide with us and help us shaping HZ's future. Nobody knows what it'll look like, but we're not giving up. If you are, please do it quietly and refrain from stabbing us in the back while you do. Everyone else, please join us on slack!
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August 13, 2015, 11:16:10 AM
 #2162

Wow, so much drama.

In the Expanse thread there's even accusations that the recent drop was because of insider sell-offs before the foundation announcement. I can guarantee that this wasn't the case. Creating a foundation was planned since weeks, but nobody knew it would be announced when it was. I did it pretty spontaneous that night.
And now people even get fishy about team members receiving the equivalent of 1 BTC/month for their work. Whoever you are, you suck. We're not your slaves, and it wasn't even your money. And most important: You could've been part of that team too, if you wanted (and brought some skills). We've never been a closed circle.

@GoldenEye: sorry to see you go, but that was to be expected when the node bounties start running out, wasn't it?
As a long time supporter you should be aware about what we went through. You should know that of those 138M to founders you decry, 100M were stolen by silverNxt a year ago. Having our main dev betray us was a huge draw-back, and if it wasn't about Pizpie and the CCC crew we probably would've given up at that time.
We had coders come and go then, and it took a while, some more drama, and more work for us to get someone worth their bounties. That's where MaWo came in, and again, without him HZ would be long dead.
Regarding bounties in general, the slogan for NHZ was "distributed by bounties", not "distributed to nodes". The whole idea was to recruit talent by paying them bounties for their work. The results of that have been mixed, most contributors dumped and disappeared more sooner than later. The node bounty being the main means of distribution was not planned, it was thought as a way to include those who can't help in a really productive way. But we just couldn't find as many reliable persons who'd stick around to receive something for real work.

So here we are, making plans how to keep HZ alive, and it's sad to see so many "supporters" falling into our backs now. We _need_ funds to incentivize people to work with us in the future, and to pay for regular expenses. The chances of finding someone to seriously contribute aren't too big, and that those 50M need to last for a while and we have to be close-fisted at payouts doesn't make it easier.

So what changed? We're concentrating on development, and give everyone who's interested the possibility to decide with us and help us shaping HZ's future. Nobody knows what it'll look like, but we're not giving up. If you are, please do it quietly and refrain from stabbing us in the back while you do. Everyone else, please join us on slack!

Finally open and honest words. For me, unfortunately, too late. I wish you good luck and success.
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August 13, 2015, 02:16:53 PM
 #2163

I am going to say the same thing I said in another thread. Clayton is a pumper snake. He uses his non anonymous status as if it makes him an honest person but if you look at his posts in the Facebook groups you can see him telling people to buy and hold while on his blockchain r is moving millions of coins to multiple accounts all siphoning to POLO to dump on newbies and those people who trust him.

As for the team, it is inept. The technology is inherently no different than NXT. It'd just got a shiny new UI which according to this professional team makes this coin appeal to the corporate world. But let's face the facts. NHZ had a much better distribution model than this teams model. It was better off before they got involved. Team members getting paid 1 million HZ a month to do nothing.... Now the team is, and has been the largest holders of the coin.

I suspect I will get called out for being anon when people who are not anon that bring up valid concerns over past year get attacked in the forums and Facebook for just wanting HZ to have better development. The super secret HZ team is NOW opening their slack to the community after months of top secret non development. We can only imagine what was really spoken of in these back rooms...

One can only conclude that the real reason for secrecy involves their distribution model to leech the community so they have some extra trading funds. This is an example when greedy traders take over a coin and it is truly sad. The original selloff the other day came right before their crappy announcement so seems like a little insider trading by the devs... Or maybe they just wanted a better coin like ETH... Especially since they are now venturing into ESP (expanse) their new scheme to leech their cryptocurrency collector club followers. I hope the good people involved in this ETH clone realize how important it is to keep these people far away from their project.

Whole thing makes me sick! I'm sure Clayton will come on here acting like a noble warrior in crypto helping people make good picks.
When he says buy, that's when he sells. I can list dozens of examples where his picks were horrible for those who bought in except for him. 160 satoshis for NHZ is cheap... Buy buy buy!!! What a hack. The original dev was kicked out of NHZ in a hostile takeover and no one questions the true intentions of this group.  I hope the rest of the HZ community realizes the truth about this group of insider snakes and thieves who pose as noble crypto traders while in their secret groups and convos they plan pumps and dumps on community.

HZ needs to be over. Project is a failure and the only way it can be saved is if whole project is given to another team. Otherwise HZ will be traded in sub satoshi. Only the team will trade the coin amongst themselves to give illusion of a demand.
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August 13, 2015, 02:26:53 PM
 #2164

Blame original dev... Check
Steal project through devious means from original dev and make him look like bad guy... Check
Destroy all momentum on coin and call it "a long term investment" .... Check
Never fix valid issues with code and distribution... Check
Squander development funds and leech community... Check
Destroy active community and beg for new dev funds to squander... Check

Now that we have paid ourselves a bitcoin a month each to produce barely anything that resembles development.... Other than some flashy photoshop and a few lines of Java.... We want the community to do the work.

Sorry, you burned the community and we are done with all of you.
pharesim
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August 13, 2015, 02:37:57 PM
 #2165

Wtf. You definitely haven't been around for long, or you wouldn't call getting rid of silver after his theft and betrayal a "hostile overtake". NHZ started with 4 people, cbkr and me being 2 of them. With the first rise of price over 100 silver dumped millions of coins which weren't his, because he "wanted to keep the price low". And of course he kept the BTC he made with that for himself.
I'm glad nick and james were around that time (they wanted to join in and help, nobody thought about kicking silver before he pulled off what he did). It took them a lot of effort to get the (major part) of the remaining funds from him. Without them, NHZ would have died at that point, being nothing but another coin used by an anon dev to make some quick bucks.


How you can come up with calling him the "original dev", while all he did was creating the genesis block and leaving all work after that basically to me and the people I managed to get into the team, is absolutely not understandable.

And your statement that we wouldn't have worked for our bounties is ridiculously insulting.

https://horizonplatform.io
https://github.com/NeXTHorizon/
https://github.com/pharesim?tab=repositories
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August 13, 2015, 03:09:07 PM
 #2166

@thebountiful    Thanks for give us you point of view about Clayton but I feel that rest of anothers devs  are doing very good work on HZ, Some peoples seem to be disappointed due to  low prices but it is normal because of the long period of distribution, About a slack and a Foundation could be good idea too, Many coins are doing same thing. One more thing, Nxt for example is on low prices just now, So anything more could are affecting the landscape of this type of platforms like HZ and NXT.

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August 13, 2015, 04:01:35 PM
 #2167

In fact we have that slack since a long time. Everyone who contributed something was invited, it's been over 35 accounts before yesterday already.

It's cheap to complain about secrecy when you haven't shown any interest in participating.

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August 13, 2015, 05:15:13 PM
 #2168

As for the team, it is inept. The technology is inherently no different than NXT. It'd just got a shiny new UI which according to this professional team makes this coin appeal to the corporate world. But let's face the facts. NHZ had a much better distribution model than this teams model. It was better off before they got involved. Team members getting paid 1 million HZ a month to do nothing.... Now the team is, and has been the largest holders of the coin.

Hunh!? At the very minimum, you just trash-talked MaWo. I know for a fact that he's done a helluva lot more than "nothing", both for HZ and NFD. What's biting your behind? Angry






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pharesim
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August 13, 2015, 05:38:19 PM
 #2169

That's what usually happens when non-devs try to judge the work of coders.

On top of that, he doesn't seem to have any experience with working for money at all. My day job pays the equivalent of that 1 BTC in less than two days. It's just silly to complain about us receiving that per month. And even sillier to complain now after we changed that practice.

FUDders gonna FUD I guess
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August 13, 2015, 05:57:50 PM
 #2170

I really don't see why a coin with a marketcap of over US$100,000 (and more potentially) should not spend US$1,000 per month on developer payments. Ofcourse it should show and marketcap needs to grow at least 12 % per year to cover and more to make a 'marketcap profit'.

On the longterm I think it's every coin's task to find ways to fund their projects, either through donations or investment or otherwise through creation of incomeflows. Think of advertisements, fee's on trades, websites that provide a service, commision from games, sell merchandise, etc. Problem is if someone were to create something, why wouldn't he do it for himself instead if it's profitable. Hz and any coin needs such efforts be made dedicated towards the network so it can stay alive and keep paying bounties for work.



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August 14, 2015, 03:46:13 AM
 #2171

Blame original dev... Check
Steal project through devious means from original dev and make him look like bad guy... Check
Destroy all momentum on coin and call it "a long term investment" .... Check
Never fix valid issues with code and distribution... Check
Squander development funds and leech community... Check
Destroy active community and beg for new dev funds to squander... Check

Now that we have paid ourselves a bitcoin a month each to produce barely anything that resembles development.... Other than some flashy photoshop and a few lines of Java.... We want the community to do the work.

Sorry, you burned the community and we are done with all of you.


Created a new account just to attack HZ
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August 14, 2015, 05:01:20 AM
 #2172

Blame original dev... Check
Steal project through devious means from original dev and make him look like bad guy... Check
Destroy all momentum on coin and call it "a long term investment" .... Check
Never fix valid issues with code and distribution... Check
Squander development funds and leech community... Check
Destroy active community and beg for new dev funds to squander... Check

Now that we have paid ourselves a bitcoin a month each to produce barely anything that resembles development.... Other than some flashy photoshop and a few lines of Java.... We want the community to do the work.

Sorry, you burned the community and we are done with all of you.


Created a new account just to attack HZ

The original dev Silver dumped on us and took investors money, he certainly took mine. One of the worst people I have met in cryptos, he never did anything useful, vanished with Bitcoin, people that promoted it blamed. A joke of a dev. The NFD team is top notch that joined us, and anyone that thinks there was no development knows nothing about the complexities of NXT and the largest Node based crypto system next to Bitcoin. As for devs making $230 a month and people complaining about that, that actually isn't a lot of money, and usually many hours were put in. ICO raised 18 million and didn't get a wallet done in over a year, and people complain about this?

I was right there when the "God" account from Silver became active and he screwed everyone over. (He is long gone after dumping on everyone, ages ago, but that is certainly 100% his fault)

...
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August 14, 2015, 05:11:54 AM
 #2173

I am going to say the same thing I said in another thread. Clayton is a pumper snake. He uses his non anonymous status as if it makes him an honest person but if you look at his posts in the Facebook groups you can see him telling people to buy and hold while on his blockchain r is moving millions of coins to multiple accounts all siphoning to POLO to dump on newbies and those people who trust him.

As for the team, it is inept. The technology is inherently no different than NXT. It'd just got a shiny new UI which according to this professional team makes this coin appeal to the corporate world. But let's face the facts. NHZ had a much better distribution model than this teams model. It was better off before they got involved. Team members getting paid 1 million HZ a month to do nothing.... Now the team is, and has been the largest holders of the coin.

I suspect I will get called out for being anon when people who are not anon that bring up valid concerns over past year get attacked in the forums and Facebook for just wanting HZ to have better development. The super secret HZ team is NOW opening their slack to the community after months of top secret non development. We can only imagine what was really spoken of in these back rooms...

One can only conclude that the real reason for secrecy involves their distribution model to leech the community so they have some extra trading funds. This is an example when greedy traders take over a coin and it is truly sad. The original selloff the other day came right before their crappy announcement so seems like a little insider trading by the devs... Or maybe they just wanted a better coin like ETH... Especially since they are now venturing into ESP (expanse) their new scheme to leech their cryptocurrency collector club followers. I hope the good people involved in this ETH clone realize how important it is to keep these people far away from their project.

Whole thing makes me sick! I'm sure Clayton will come on here acting like a noble warrior in crypto helping people make good picks.
When he says buy, that's when he sells. I can list dozens of examples where his picks were horrible for those who bought in except for him. 160 satoshis for NHZ is cheap... Buy buy buy!!! What a hack. The original dev was kicked out of NHZ in a hostile takeover and no one questions the true intentions of this group.  I hope the rest of the HZ community realizes the truth about this group of insider snakes and thieves who pose as noble crypto traders while in their secret groups and convos they plan pumps and dumps on community.

HZ needs to be over. Project is a failure and the only way it can be saved is if whole project is given to another team. Otherwise HZ will be traded in sub satoshi. Only the team will trade the coin amongst themselves to give illusion of a demand.

You don't use your real account and you are a coward. You are a bad trader. You make up random things, when the blockchain is right there to check accounts. If you trade cryptos, they go up and down in price. If you blame others for that, you are just stupid. I have put up with your idiocy forever and ever, Brian? That is what I get for helping stupid people that don't know how to trade or think. The secret group I have is a group for MODS, where we talk about SPAM. You know nothing, and I am sorry I ever tried to help you. I will not help people with trade advice again, although if you had the slightest skills and stayed diversified, you would have won big.

Let me explain exactly how stupid you are, so everyone knows it. There was a little thing called Ethereum that just released. Countless cryptos went down in price. I checked the teams wallets, they held. Moron.

...
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August 14, 2015, 01:59:55 PM
 #2174

It be nice if the team posted as much about real developments as they do to entertain "FUD" from some moron.

Awefuly defensive replies for a group of honest guys.
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August 14, 2015, 04:31:54 PM
 #2175

I just find that the older version HZ clients are not working anymore for running as a node but how about the thin wallet?

I still have a v3.8 thin wallet and still like to use it. Anyone can tell me if it still works?

QORA | NEW CODE | Qfm2AHBxqUwPqjmRtHivusPgcf3N3cebQi
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August 14, 2015, 04:39:36 PM
 #2176

It be nice if the team posted as much about real developments as they do to entertain "FUD" from some moron.

Awefuly defensive replies for a group of honest guys.

So you're skilled at provoking honest people. So what? It's not a skill to be proud of.






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1millionthofaBTC
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August 15, 2015, 03:28:38 AM
 #2177

HZ has arrived. The FUD is a sign of success.
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August 15, 2015, 04:05:14 AM
 #2178

It be nice if the team posted as much about real developments as they do to entertain "FUD" from some moron.

Awefuly defensive replies for a group of honest guys.

If you care about the project, provide constructive feedback instead of slander. If people are posting personal slander and lies, at a certain point I feel the need to respond. I am staying on in a volunteer capacity if people like, but being as I will be helping for free, I will take zero abuse and lies from people. Not a scrap of it. I hope that makes sense for you.




...
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August 15, 2015, 04:08:26 AM
 #2179

Update Aug 14th

HZ CHRONOS has months reserved into the future and is one of the only digital assets in the alt world with practical use that is being used. I believe almost all the other marketing assets elsewhere have pretty much failed, so I think that is a substantial success! Volume of course is low, but with declining crypto prices across the board, HZ CHRONOS is still just as valuable to use, and perhaps moreso as people slowly discover the world of crypto currency.

Since months are being reserved in advance, there is no point in changing anything at this time for HZ CHRONOS. Used tokens will continue to be burned with supply reduced, and HZ CHRONOS will continue to be useful, supported, and a *very* good place to put some of your HZ if you ever plan on marketing in the crypto currency collectors club, or trading HZ CHRONOS in the long run.



https://horizonplatform.io/hzchronos/

A Trusted Asset of Horizon

...
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August 15, 2015, 04:17:40 AM
 #2180

Update Aug 14th

HZ CHRONOS has months reserved into the future and is one of the only digital assets in the alt world with practical use that is being used. I believe almost all the other marketing assets elsewhere have pretty much failed, so I think that is a substantial success! Volume of course is low, but with declining crypto prices across the board, HZ CHRONOS is still just as valuable to use, and perhaps moreso as people slowly discover the world of crypto currency.

Since months are being reserved in advance, there is no point in changing anything at this time for HZ CHRONOS. Used tokens will continue to be burned with supply reduced, and HZ CHRONOS will continue to be useful, supported, and a *very* good place to put some of your HZ if you ever plan on marketing in the crypto currency collectors club, or trading HZ CHRONOS in the long run.


Yeah, Good heard about  true assets like to this, Because a essential part of Horizon are assets, And somebody have to work on rest of them to sure that its  are  100% reliable and more now that the distribution is ending and HZ´s will be more valuable.
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