Consent of the Governed

[FredericBastiat]

Um - thats crazy.  McGlinchy wasn't some isolated maniac - he was leader of a movement with a lot of support.  A vociferous minority who felt the majority were misguided. So you have this guy who is setting up his own state with his own little army terrorising the democratically elected state.  And your solution is to ask him to leave his army and community of supporters behind and secede on his own?  

Way to miss the point...

Way to not read my post...

[TECSHARE]

Actually Hawker, you completely missed the point. When he used the word "subsistence" he literally meant controlling the food, the water, the shelter, etc. Are you telling me that if you have a strong enough will you don't need to eat or drink any more? I think that was his point exactly. Remove people's ability to feed themselves, and it is only a matter of time before they are weak enough to overpower.

[Hawker]

Actually Hawker, you completely missed the point. When he used the word "subsistence" he literally meant controlling the food, the water, the shelter, etc. Are you telling me that if you have a strong enough will you don't need to eat or drink any more? I think that was his point exactly. Remove people's ability to feed themselves, and it is only a matter of time before they are weak enough to overpower.

Of course you are correct that lack of food and water makes people easier to overpower physically.  But the Alexander Hamilton quote is: "In the general course of human nature, A power over a man's subsistence amounts to a power over his will." That's simply untrue.

[Bitware]

Of course you are correct that lack of food and water makes people easier to overpower physically.  But the Alexander Hamilton quote is: "In the general course of human nature, A power over a man's subsistence amounts to a power over his will." That's simply untrue.

it is NOT untrue ... it is situational.

the will bends to needs for survival... and often it breaks... for the majority.

there is a minority whos will will not bend or break.

this has been written about many times by leaders, philosophers/thinkers,  think tanks, foundations,  and intelligence services/operatives.

[TECSHARE]

Actually Hawker, you completely missed the point. When he used the word "subsistence" he literally meant controlling the food, the water, the shelter, etc. Are you telling me that if you have a strong enough will you don't need to eat or drink any more? I think that was his point exactly. Remove people's ability to feed themselves, and it is only a matter of time before they are weak enough to overpower.

Of course you are correct that lack of food and water makes people easier to overpower physically.  But the Alexander Hamilton quote is: "In the general course of human nature, A power over a man's subsistence amounts to a power over his will." That's simply untrue.

It is not just true, it is a fact. If you withhold subsistence ANYONE will break, be it psychologically or physically, it is reality. Your example is not representative of the statement, because if they truly had control over his subsistence he would be dead in a week. You can keep repeating your statement over and over again like you always do, but it makes it no more factual.

[Hawker]

Of course you are correct that lack of food and water makes people easier to overpower physically.  But the Alexander Hamilton quote is: "In the general course of human nature, A power over a man's subsistence amounts to a power over his will." That's simply untrue.

it is NOT untrue ... it is situational.

the will bends to needs for survival... and often it breaks... for the majority.

there is a minority whos will will not bend or break.

this has been written about many times by leaders, philosophers/thinkers,  think tanks, foundations,  and intelligence services/operatives.

Hamilton said its a general rule.  Its either a general rule or its situational.  As you just said that "there is a minority whos will will not bend or break."  That means Hamilton was wrong.  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Sands

IRA prisoner are an interesting example of people whose subsistence was totally under government control.  Their will never broke.  Their commander in chief, a man responsible for 100s of killings and bombings, is Deputy Prime Minister today.

[TECSHARE]

Of course you are correct that lack of food and water makes people easier to overpower physically.  But the Alexander Hamilton quote is: "In the general course of human nature, A power over a man's subsistence amounts to a power over his will." That's simply untrue.

it is NOT untrue ... it is situational.

the will bends to needs for survival... and often it breaks... for the majority.

there is a minority whos will will not bend or break.

this has been written about many times by leaders, philosophers/thinkers,  think tanks, foundations,  and intelligence services/operatives.

Hamilton said its a general rule.  Its either a general rule or its situational.  As you just said that "there is a minority whos will will not bend or break."  That means Hamilton was wrong.  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Sands

IRA prisoner are an interesting example of people whose subsistence was totally under government control.  Their will never broke.  Their commander in chief, a man responsible for 100s of killings and bombings, is Deputy Prime Minister today.

As prisoners, they still maintain rights and the state causing physical harm to prisoners by withholding food and water is considered unethical and likely illegal. Because there are restrictions in place, by definition they DO NOT have complete control over the subsistence of the prisoners.