New York Looks to Slap Digital Currency With Death Sentence

[MicroGuy]

Remember the pain and suffering we all experienced when China banned Bitcoin last year? Well, a new form of punishment is on the horizon for Bitcoin thanks to New York’s Superintendent of Financial Services, Benjamin Lawsky. This new artificially imposed homicide might as well be called – Death by Regulation.

Imagine walking up to a New York street vendor in Times Square to purchase a foot-long hot dog and being asked to provide your name and home address. If you’re paying with cash, no need to fret. But if you’re paying in Bitcoin or some other digital currency, be prepared to answer a series of questions before enjoying your tasty treat.

The State of New York is proposing BitLicense, a set of rules and regulations that would mandate licenses for merchants that accept Bitcoin and its digital cousins. The proposal creates expensive costs and barriers-of-entry for vendors, and infringes upon the rights of both businesses and casual users alike, according to a recent article published by the electronic frontier foundation.

The fact is, the World looks to New York for guidance as it relates to financial and banking regulation and if this proposed legislation passes, it would mean an end to Bitcoin in New York, and likely set a wrench into motion that could “gum up” the entire cryptocurrency machine. In essence, the Bitlicense would become the Ebola Virus of digital currency with Benjamin Lawsky becoming “patient zero”.

The open comment period on these regulations is expected to end soon, after which time, the Department of Financial Services will release an updated version of its proposed regulatory framework. That means that digital currency adopters worldwide have a limited amount of time to speak out against these new proposals or face regulation that is sure to strike a crippling blow to cryptocurrencies across the globe.

Full Story: http://altcoinpress.com/2014/10/new-york-looks-to-slap-digital-currency-with-death-sentence/

[S.Boxx]

Organization's like the quoted "electronic frontier foundation" and the "Cypherpunks" have been fighting for our freedom since the beginning of the digital age and the only person anyone knows is Steve Jobs, the king of "mass production for mass consumption". Google these organizations and donate, read and listen to what the have to say about protecting your freedom. This doesn't have to be a world of "NOTICE: The user agrees to surveillance and no rights of privacy so we can prosecute you if we feel the need to for political or financial reasons".

[Beliathon]

Bitcoin looks to slap New York with reality check. Bitcoin is sovereign, New York is not.

[mercistheman]

So much for their slogan... "New York Open For Business"

It should be... "New York Left Behind"

[MrBig]

This could backfire on the government if they actually tried to implement something like this, and give more credibility to btc.

[chopstick]

Poorly designed regulations are destined to fail.

Lawsky, looking out for his bro's at JP Morgan. One big fail party

[Bitcoin Magazine]

Bitcoin looks to slap New York with reality check. Bitcoin is sovereign, New York is not.

BTCitcoin takes too long.  No one wants to wait behind someone with a paper wallet.  especially when all they have to do is slide their card

[bitcoincal]

Horrible news if this happens, but it will probably backfire on these regulators.

[Undermood]

Never mind! The New York will eat the results themselves. The bitcoin startups will leave there to other open area to build their business.

[turvarya]

When you listen to Andreas Antonopolis in front of the Canadian committee and how this senators react to his answers, you pretty much see that the game has already changed in favor to Bitcoin, at least in Canada.
So, New York or even USA regulate how much you ever want. You will be left behind anyways, when you do so.

[jaybits]

New York is fail boat if they think they can regulate Bit[Suspicious link removed]d luck with that you out dated tards.

Kobayashi cares not what you think.

[Lethn]

When you listen to Andreas Antonopolis in front of the Canadian committee and how this senators react to his answers, you pretty much see that the game has already changed in favor to Bitcoin, at least in Canada.
So, New York or even USA regulate how much you ever want. You will be left behind anyways, when you do so.

I've been amazed at Canada's response, unusually rational, but then again their Canadian Royal Mint produces Gold/Silver bars and as far as I know they actually have a reasonably well run economy. Considering New York has the stock exchange and is supposed to be a financial capital they're going to look like morons with these new laws.

That said, New York has been known to introduce some ridiculous laws, Mayor Bloomberg did something with fucking limits on how big of a coke cup you could buy awhile back and then said it was okay to carry around a certain amount of marijuana lol.

[runam0k]

Support the EFF and follow their advice by emailing the NYDFS.

[Elwar]

Places to do business with bitcoin:
New York

[altcointalk.org]

When you listen to Andreas Antonopolis in front of the Canadian committee and how this senators react to his answers, you pretty much see that the game has already changed in favor to Bitcoin, at least in Canada.
So, New York or even USA regulate how much you ever want. You will be left behind anyways, when you do so.

Exactly. The technology will survive and thrive and those that don't embrace it will be left behind.

[bitsmichel]

Remember the pain and suffering we all experienced when China banned Bitcoin last year? Well, a new form of punishment is on the horizon for Bitcoin thanks to New York’s Superintendent of Financial Services, Benjamin Lawsky. This new artificially imposed homicide might as well be called – Death by Regulation.

Imagine walking up to a New York street vendor in Times Square to purchase a foot-long hot dog and being asked to provide your name and home address. If you’re paying with cash, no need to fret. But if you’re paying in Bitcoin or some other digital currency, be prepared to answer a series of questions before enjoying your tasty treat.

I have not been in New York in a while but I doubt they would ask a series of questions. Imagine you are about to make a sale: would you start asking the customer hundreds of questions? 

[huoiuu]

This is a frustrating news。

New York ,what are you doing?

[CryptoCarmen]

I think NY slapped them self a death sentence.

[Monkeynutz]

I have couple buddies there, they heard this too and aren't happy.  I mean I cant understnad WHY NY wants to be that tight?  I can understnad some reg's but this much??  More b.s. poitics behind it.  Didn't knwo they became a commie or nazi city overnight?!!

[R2D221]

Bitcoin looks to slap New York with reality check. Bitcoin is sovereign, New York is not.

BTCitcoin takes too long.  No one wants to wait behind someone with a paper wallet.  especially when all they have to do is slide their card

That's similar to paying with a check. Why would you pay for your hot dog with a check?

[commandrix]

If you want to do any kind of serious business anymore, you should stay out of New York no matter what they say about not paying taxes for ten years. That's the kind of thing states do when they're desperate and New York City is going to wind up being the next Detroit. I hear Virginia is all-around friendlier toward business.

[btckold24]

New York is such a joke - so far ahead but yet so far behind....

[ducatitalia]

Remember the pain and suffering we all experienced when China banned Bitcoin last year? Well, a new form of punishment is on the horizon for Bitcoin thanks to New York’s Superintendent of Financial Services, Benjamin Lawsky. This new artificially imposed homicide might as well be called – Death by Regulation.

Imagine walking up to a New York street vendor in Times Square to purchase a foot-long hot dog and being asked to provide your name and home address. If you’re paying with cash, no need to fret. But if you’re paying in Bitcoin or some other digital currency, be prepared to answer a series of questions before enjoying your tasty treat.

The State of New York is proposing BitLicense, a set of rules and regulations that would mandate licenses for merchants that accept Bitcoin and its digital cousins. The proposal creates expensive costs and barriers-of-entry for vendors, and infringes upon the rights of both businesses and casual users alike, according to a recent article published by the electronic frontier foundation.

The fact is, the World looks to New York for guidance as it relates to financial and banking regulation and if this proposed legislation passes, it would mean an end to Bitcoin in New York, and likely set a wrench into motion that could “gum up” the entire cryptocurrency machine. In essence, the Bitlicense would become the Ebola Virus of digital currency with Benjamin Lawsky becoming “patient zero”.

The open comment period on these regulations is expected to end soon, after which time, the Department of Financial Services will release an updated version of its proposed regulatory framework. That means that digital currency adopters worldwide have a limited amount of time to speak out against these new proposals or face regulation that is sure to strike a crippling blow to cryptocurrencies across the globe.

Full Story: http://altcoinpress.com/2014/10/new-york-looks-to-slap-digital-currency-with-death-sentence/

This should not in any way be considered unexpected (or even problematic for that matter)...New York is the fiat banking capital.  Over-regulation and monopolistic tactics are to be anticipated, and such draconian reactive efforts and concern on the part of established power structures could even be regarded as useful, by lending significant credibility and weight to the Bitcoin ecosystem.

At the end of the day, Bitcoin will succeed or fail based on its own merits, as determined by the global open-market.  Legislation, regulation, competition et al will have influence to varying degrees...but if BTC proves to be better than $ (or any other fiat) as determined by adoption and utility, then no manner of obstructionism will prevent proliferation.

Bitcoin is so much more than regulatable currency...it is the reimagination of economics...the reinvention of finance...the transition from centralized exploitation to individual empowerment.  

http://www.coindesk.com/block-chain-aid-fight-free-speech/
and
http://www.coindesk.com/imf-world-bank-bitcoin-block-chain-financial-inclusion/

[duke1839]

Don't let assholes like Lawsky claim the moral high ground.  Someone asked him if he, as a New Yorker, did business with an exchange in Slovenia, if the Slovenian exchange needed a Bitlicense.  His answer was yes.  I would have followed up with a scenario where a Slovenian exchange chooses to block New York IP addresses and then a New Yorker does business with them by masking his IP address.  In that case, who is liable for prosecution or sanctions?  The New Yorker masking his IP address or the company that unknowingly did business with a New Yorker?

If he says the New Yorker, then I would ask how he plans on protecting New Yorkers if he is planning on fining or prosecuting them for voluntarily exchanging fiat for bitcoin.  If he says the Slovenian exchange, then I point out that he is effectively requiring all Bitcoin businesses worldwide to get a Bitlicense just in case they unknowingly do business with New Yorkers. 

[Keyser Soze]

Article is very misleading, their hot dog cart example is not accurate.

(c) Exemption from licensing requirements. The following Persons are exempt from the licensing
requirements otherwise applicable under this Part:
(1) Persons that are chartered under the New York Banking Law to conduct exchange services and are
approved by the superintendent to engage in Virtual Currency Business Activity; and
(2) merchants and consumers that utilize Virtual Currency solely for the purchase or sale of goods or
services

[duke1839]

Article is very misleading, their hot dog cart example is not accurate.

(c) Exemption from licensing requirements. The following Persons are exempt from the licensing
requirements otherwise applicable under this Part:
(1) Persons that are chartered under the New York Banking Law to conduct exchange services and are
approved by the superintendent to engage in Virtual Currency Business Activity; and
(2) merchants and consumers that utilize Virtual Currency solely for the purchase or sale of goods or
services

Just listen to the man himself.  He says it is not our INTENTION to regulate software developers.
It is not our INTENTION to regulate miners.
It is not our INTENTION to regulate merchants.
It is not our INTENTION to regulate consumers.

Regardless of what his stated intentions are, these regulation may lead to all four of the above being required to get a Bitlicense. 

[Keyser Soze]

Article is very misleading, their hot dog cart example is not accurate.

(c) Exemption from licensing requirements. The following Persons are exempt from the licensing
requirements otherwise applicable under this Part:
(1) Persons that are chartered under the New York Banking Law to conduct exchange services and are
approved by the superintendent to engage in Virtual Currency Business Activity; and
(2) merchants and consumers that utilize Virtual Currency solely for the purchase or sale of goods or
services

Just listen to the man himself.  He says it is not our INTENTION to regulate software developers.
It is not our INTENTION to regulate miners.
It is not our INTENTION to regulate merchants.
It is not our INTENTION to regulate consumers.

Regardless of what his stated intentions are, these regulation may lead to all four of the above being required to get a Bitlicense. 

True, we do not know what the final regulations will say. As it stands now though, the hot dog cart example is completely inaccurate and the article as a whole is very misleading.

[runam0k]

Just listen to the man himself.  He says it is not our INTENTION to regulate software developers.
It is not our INTENTION to regulate miners.
It is not our INTENTION to regulate merchants.
It is not our INTENTION to regulate consumers.

Regardless of what his stated intentions are, these regulation may lead to all four of the above being required to get a Bitlicense. 

There's nothing wrong with expressing intentions and using the word "intention" FFS, it doesn't mean he's lying.  Given the laws of unintended consequences, use of the word "intention" here is absolutely correct.

Besides, courts can look at these statements as guidance in much the same way they can refer to records of parliamentary discussions (here in the UK, and whatever the equivalent is in the US) to determine, wait for it, the intention behind a particular piece of legislation or regulation, and construe that legislation or regulation accordingly.

Bitlicense is going to happen, we know that much.  If they go massively OTT, trying to regulate everything, and the Bitlicense is unreasonably burdensome, it will definitely be challenged in court.

[Cubic Earth]

Don't let assholes like Lawsky claim the moral high ground.  Someone asked him if he, as a New Yorker, did business with an exchange in Slovenia, if the Slovenian exchange needed a Bitlicense.  His answer was yes.  I would have followed up with a scenario where a Slovenian exchange chooses to block New York IP addresses and then a New Yorker does business with them by masking his IP address.  In that case, who is liable for prosecution or sanctions?  The New Yorker masking his IP address or the company that unknowingly did business with a New Yorker?

If he says the New Yorker, then I would ask how he plans on protecting New Yorkers if he is planning on fining or prosecuting them for voluntarily exchanging fiat for bitcoin.  If he says the Slovenian exchange, then I point out that he is effectively requiring all Bitcoin businesses worldwide to get a Bitlicense just in case they unknowingly do business with New Yorkers. 

There was a follow up question, and the guy asked Lawsky about a New Yorker using an ATM in London "Would the ATM operator have to have a BitLicense or prevent the New Yorker from using the machine?"  Lawsky said he didn't think so, that that was not the intent, meaning a New Yorker could use a BTC ATM in London with no restrictions.  Lawsky said they are trying to protect New Yorkers when they are in New York.

But I agree with your question about masking of IPs.  What is the burden on the companies overseas?  It is actually pretty incredible that someone in some country in Africa that was operating an online bitcoin business would even be expected to know of something called "The State of New York", let alone know New York's laws.  However, if someone in Africa was engaged in active hacking, DoS, etc., well you had better do your legal homework first!

[nutildah]

Spot on analysis, MicroGuy.

One of the reasons why bitcoin was necessitated in the first place was the fact that Wall Street sucks so very, very hard. They are perhaps the biggest financial drain on the planet and have proven themselves to be completely untrustworthy over the past decade.

Any regulations that come out of NY will be 100% written by the banking industry, make no mistake about it. They will be written by and for the 0.01%, with the intention of regulating the utility right out of cryptocurrency.

Banking regulations and bitcoin just don't mix, they are like oil and water.

[jonald_fyookball]

are we really surprised?  NYC was the town who tried to tell you how big of a soda you can have (now overturned)

[subcoin]

The fact is, the World looks to New York for guidance as it relates to financial and banking regulation

Yeah, no. World doesn't.
In fact, most of the world looks at US to see how NOT to do regulation...

[nutildah]

The fact is, the World looks to New York for guidance as it relates to financial and banking regulation

Yeah, no. World doesn't.
In fact, most of the world looks at US to see how NOT to do regulation...

Yes but most finance of the world is in the US, so you have no choice but to pay attention. For example, the total market cap of the NYSE and NASDAQ far supersedes that of every other stock exchange in the world put together. Its not even close.

If the US economy takes a hit, the world economy takes a hit.

This is why Wall Street banker, trader and fund manager types are commonly referred to as "the masters of the universe."

[Argwai96]

Imagine walking up to a New York street vendor in Times Square to purchase a foot-long hot dog and being asked to provide your name and home address. If you’re paying with cash, no need to fret. But if you’re paying in Bitcoin or some other digital currency, be prepared to answer a series of questions before enjoying your tasty treat.

This is not true. I would consider this to be FUD.

The only reason you would need to provide identification when dealing in bitcoin is if you were exchanging your bitcoin for cash. If you are exchanging your bitcoin for hot dogs, hamburgers, clothing, Giants tickets, or a car, you would not need to present your identification (you might for a car, but this has nothing to do with the fact that you are paying in bitcoin).

The OP/author of the article is seriously misinformed about what the NY regulations are proposing. It is a shame that so many people are able to write "new articles" without doing their due dilligance

[Honeypot]

LOL

That is all.

[Honeypot]

The fact is, the World looks to New York for guidance as it relates to financial and banking regulation

Yeah, no. World doesn't.
In fact, most of the world looks at US to see how NOT to do regulation...

Yes but most finance of the world is in the US, so you have no choice but to pay attention. For example, the total market cap of the NYSE and NASDAQ far supersedes that of every other stock exchange in the world put together. Its not even close.

If the US economy takes a hit, the world economy takes a hit.

This is why Wall Street banker, trader and fund manager types are commonly referred to as "the masters of the universe."

Sometimes, it's interesting to see how ignorant some people are of reality. In their mind, they can move markets and is the center of the universe. NYC? Some fishing town...

[MilesJohan]

Imagine walking up to a New York street vendor in Times Square to purchase a foot-long hot dog and being asked to provide your name and home address. If you’re paying with cash, no need to fret. But if you’re paying in Bitcoin or some other digital currency, be prepared to answer a series of questions before enjoying your tasty treat.

This is not true. I would consider this to be FUD.

The only reason you would need to provide identification when dealing in bitcoin is if you were exchanging your bitcoin for cash. If you are exchanging your bitcoin for hot dogs, hamburgers, clothing, Giants tickets, or a car, you would not need to present your identification (you might for a car, but this has nothing to do with the fact that you are paying in bitcoin).

The OP/author of the article is seriously misinformed about what the NY regulations are proposing. It is a shame that so many people are able to write "new articles" without doing their due dilligance

This is true. I think that many people just see the word 'regulation' and automatically assume that it will be bad.

Although excessive regulations are always bad, I do not think the NY regulations are 100% negative. As they do have some positives like forcing exchanges to have 100% reserves.

[Honeypot]

Imagine walking up to a New York street vendor in Times Square to purchase a foot-long hot dog and being asked to provide your name and home address. If you’re paying with cash, no need to fret. But if you’re paying in Bitcoin or some other digital currency, be prepared to answer a series of questions before enjoying your tasty treat.

This is not true. I would consider this to be FUD.

The only reason you would need to provide identification when dealing in bitcoin is if you were exchanging your bitcoin for cash. If you are exchanging your bitcoin for hot dogs, hamburgers, clothing, Giants tickets, or a car, you would not need to present your identification (you might for a car, but this has nothing to do with the fact that you are paying in bitcoin).

The OP/author of the article is seriously misinformed about what the NY regulations are proposing. It is a shame that so many people are able to write "new articles" without doing their due dilligance

This is true. I think that many people just see the word 'regulation' and automatically assume that it will be bad.

Although excessive regulations are always bad, I do not think the NY regulations are 100% negative. As they do have some positives like forcing exchanges to have 100% reserves.

People have no idea how lack of regulation have been running down crypto. Vast majority of existing crypto 'heavy weights' have vested interest in demonizing regulations mainly because it would cut them off from doing their profiteering.

Exchanges have been running on hot air and lack of reserves for too long, and they will be swept aside.

[nutildah]

Sometimes, it's interesting to see how ignorant some people are of reality. In their mind, they can move markets and is the center of the universe. NYC? Some fishing town...

Yeah unless you consider gross domestic product, trading activity and the fact that it is the 12th biggest economy in the world.

I think you are underestimating the gravity of their pull. Weren't you around in 2008?

[nutildah]

People have no idea how lack of regulation have been running down crypto. Vast majority of existing crypto 'heavy weights' have vested interest in demonizing regulations mainly because it would cut them off from doing their profiteering.

The regulation is going to be written by Wall Street, which is a far more corrupt and world-destroying entity than crypto, because they operate under the pretense that they are good and necessary and aren't evil shits (which the vast majority are -- evil, spoiled, unnecessary shits, deadset on making the world a worse place to live in during their lifetimes).

Here, its just a freeforall with no pretense. To me thats the more honorable option.

Exchanges have been running on hot air and lack of reserves for too long, and they will be swept aside.

I have no idea if this is true or not but I hope for their sake its not.

[nutildah]

I went too soft on Wall Street in my last post.

If Wall Street was useless to society, that would be an improvement.

[Honeypot]

Sometimes, it's interesting to see how ignorant some people are of reality. In their mind, they can move markets and is the center of the universe. NYC? Some fishing town...

Yeah unless you consider gross domestic product, trading activity and the fact that it is the 12th biggest economy in the world.

I think you are underestimating the gravity of their pull. Weren't you around in 2008?

You missed sarcasm on the last part, and the tone of the whole post

People have no idea how lack of regulation have been running down crypto. Vast majority of existing crypto 'heavy weights' have vested interest in demonizing regulations mainly because it would cut them off from doing their profiteering.

The regulation is going to be written by Wall Street, which is a far more corrupt and world-destroying entity than crypto, because they operate under the pretense that they are good and necessary and aren't evil shits (which the vast majority are -- evil, spoiled, unnecessary shits, deadset on making the world a worse place to live in during their lifetimes).

Here, its just a freeforall with no pretense. To me thats the more honorable option.

Exchanges have been running on hot air and lack of reserves for too long, and they will be swept aside.

I have no idea if this is true or not but I hope for their sake its not.

From what we have seen in the last 12 months of crypto, we learned that corruption finds a place to rest its head no matter where. If you think crypto and altcoin/exchange scene is any less corrupt then wall street, you are really foolin yourself.

It's a fact that exchanges have been running empty for a long time and basically trading substantially above what they are capable of dispatching at any given time. Their duplicity makes lehman brothers and jp morgan look law abiding in comparison, if you consider the scale of the respective businesses and especially the time frame in which such corruption took root.

This is now a muti billion dollar economy set up in less then 5 years, with which people were essentially fleeced willingly of their money and fucked by their own child like view of what corruption is. Because they were being cheeky and cheering on 'fuck the regs, fuck the gov, fuck DA MAN, fuck banksters etc', while common thieves and internet gamers were stealing their money faster then any 'bankster' did and in larger amount. and in shorter amount of time.

How many tens of hundreds of millions went with gox, crypto rush, and now mintpal? How many scams and disappearing devs have we seen? How many pump and dump groups operating while dumping not just on the public but on each other? These fools will be prison meat in 3 weeks tops if regs come into play and they find out how easily their identities are going to be revealed to the world.

You can feel good about 'sticking it to the man' while little whores like ryan kennedy are robbing you blind from behind their monitors for a sum far more then jp morgan did.

If we have learned anything, it's that these cheeky 20 and 30 somethings with attitude need to check their place.

Any question?

[turvarya]

Sometimes, it's interesting to see how ignorant some people are of reality. In their mind, they can move markets and is the center of the universe. NYC? Some fishing town...

Yeah unless you consider gross domestic product, trading activity and the fact that it is the 12th biggest economy in the world.

I think you are underestimating the gravity of their pull. Weren't you around in 2008?

Their impact isn't written in stone. They can easily lose it by making some stupid mistakes.
I don't think, that other cities/states will just follow, whatever NYC do.

[Oscilson]

When you listen to Andreas Antonopolis in front of the Canadian committee and how this senators react to his answers, you pretty much see that the game has already changed in favor to Bitcoin, at least in Canada.
So, New York or even USA regulate how much you ever want. You will be left behind anyways, when you do so.

Exactly. BTC is international. However, if New York treats BTC properly, it sets a good example.

[aztecminer]

Full Story: http://altcoinpress.com/2014/10/new-york-looks-to-slap-digital-currency-with-death-sentence/

i am still going to hodl. new york is not really part of the usa.

[yayayo]

When you listen to Andreas Antonopolis in front of the Canadian committee and how this senators react to his answers, you pretty much see that the game has already changed in favor to Bitcoin, at least in Canada.
So, New York or even USA regulate how much you ever want. You will be left behind anyways, when you do so.

Exactly. BTC is international. However, if New York treats BTC properly, it sets a good example.

Never underestimate the stupidity and evilness of politicians and statists! They may appear to be listening but that does not mean anything, because it's what they have been training for their whole life.

The best thing to do is to improve Bitcoin technology in a way that renders any regulatory attempt a futile endeavor. Then we don't even have to communicate with these scumbags anymore and can enjoy our lives in freedom.

ya.ya.yo!

[subcoin]

The logical fail of OP & NY regulators lies in the premise that "if something is bad, it needs regulation"
The supporting argument being: "look, something was bad, then regulation came out, it is good now"
This original premise is considered to be the "universal truth", when, in fact it is not.
Because it is considered a "universal truth", they cannot see any other ways to fix it.
For example, they could just leave it alone and market forces will fix it.
REGULATION IS NOT THE ONLY WAY!

[the joint]

The fact is, the World looks to New York for guidance as it relates to financial and banking regulation

Yeah, no. World doesn't.
In fact, most of the world looks at US to see how NOT to do regulation...

Yes but most finance of the world is in the US, so you have no choice but to pay attention. For example, the total market cap of the NYSE and NASDAQ far supersedes that of every other stock exchange in the world put together. Its not even close.

If the US economy takes a hit, the world economy takes a hit.

This is why Wall Street banker, trader and fund manager types are commonly referred to as "the masters of the universe."

Sometimes, it's interesting to see how ignorant some people are of reality. In their mind, they can move markets and is the center of the universe. NYC? Some fishing town...

Yeah and September 11, 2001 wasn't significant for the world in any way.

Edit:  I see above you mention to someone else that this was supposed to be sarcastic, but I really didn't pick up on that at all the first time around, or even now to be honest.

[efreeti]

Bitcoin usage might simply move elsewhere.

The strength of bitcoin is settle payment across border when you can by pass wire and foreign exchange fee. Cash and credit card make more sense for local trade.

[sidhujag]

I thought they were making it tax free and legislation free for developers of technology and long term holders but taxing the traders only?

[nutildah]

You missed sarcasm on the last part, and the tone of the whole post

Sorry but a lot of people here really are that hard-headed or contrarian, that's why I didn't recognize the sarcasm.

From what we have seen in the last 12 months of crypto, we learned that corruption finds a place to rest its head no matter where. If you think crypto and altcoin/exchange scene is any less corrupt then wall street, you are really foolin yourself.

The only thing this says to me is you don't have much experience with Wall Street. Since they have been around for much longer and are in much greater numbers, they are much more efficient scammers than what goes on in this forum.

It's a fact that exchanges have been running empty for a long time and basically trading substantially above what they are capable of dispatching at any given time. Their duplicity makes lehman brothers and jp morgan look law abiding in comparison, if you consider the scale of the respective businesses and especially the time frame in which such corruption took root.

The entire cryptocurrency scene could be bought up by a medium-sized hedge fund. We are talking about a tiny sliver of market capitalization compared to Wall Street. You can put every single crypto exchange together and multiply their worth by 10 fold and still not approach the valuation of Lehman Brothers pre-collapse.

This is now a muti billion dollar economy set up in less then 5 years, with which people were essentially fleeced willingly of their money and fucked by their own child like view of what corruption is.

OK now you are trying to speak for everybody. I am currently sitting on a net BTC profit, so I don't know who you are talking about.

How many tens of hundreds of millions went with gox, crypto rush, and now mintpal?

Its just a tiny drop in the bucket compared to what is taken from the poor to feed to the rich on Wall Street on a daily basis.

How many scams and disappearing devs have we seen? How many pump and dump groups operating while dumping not just on the public but on each other? These fools will be prison meat in 3 weeks tops if regs come into play and they find out how easily their identities are going to be revealed to the world.

Why do we need additional "regs" to enforce pre-existing law? Theft is theft. We don't need new regulation, we simply apply the regulation we already have. Get it? No, of course not. You will never get it because for you getting it means admitting defeat.

You can feel good about 'sticking it to the man' while little whores like ryan kennedy are robbing you blind from behind their monitors for a sum far more then jp morgan did.

Really? You are saying there is a bigger thief on the planet than JP Morgan? Please, do go on...

If we have learned anything, it's that these cheeky 20 and 30 somethings with attitude need to check their place.

What I learned is old people just can't get it... It doesn't even matter how physically old you are. If you are mentally old, you won't get it.

[doubleredrolex]

So much for their slogan... "New York Open For Business"

It should be... "New York Left Behind"

agreed. Legislating themselves into the dark ages.

[Honeypot]

You missed sarcasm on the last part, and the tone of the whole post

Sorry but a lot of people here really are that hard-headed or contrarian, that's why I didn't recognize the sarcasm.

From what we have seen in the last 12 months of crypto, we learned that corruption finds a place to rest its head no matter where. If you think crypto and altcoin/exchange scene is any less corrupt then wall street, you are really foolin yourself.

The only thing this says to me is you don't have much experience with Wall Street. Since they have been around for much longer and are in much greater numbers, they are much more efficient scammers than what goes on in this forum.

It's a fact that exchanges have been running empty for a long time and basically trading substantially above what they are capable of dispatching at any given time. Their duplicity makes lehman brothers and jp morgan look law abiding in comparison, if you consider the scale of the respective businesses and especially the time frame in which such corruption took root.

The entire cryptocurrency scene could be bought up by a medium-sized hedge fund. We are talking about a tiny sliver of market capitalization compared to Wall Street. You can put every single crypto exchange together and multiply their worth by 10 fold and still not approach the valuation of Lehman Brothers pre-collapse.

This is now a muti billion dollar economy set up in less then 5 years, with which people were essentially fleeced willingly of their money and fucked by their own child like view of what corruption is.

OK now you are trying to speak for everybody. I am currently sitting on a net BTC profit, so I don't know who you are talking about.

How many tens of hundreds of millions went with gox, crypto rush, and now mintpal?

Its just a tiny drop in the bucket compared to what is taken from the poor to feed to the rich on Wall Street on a daily basis.

How many scams and disappearing devs have we seen? How many pump and dump groups operating while dumping not just on the public but on each other? These fools will be prison meat in 3 weeks tops if regs come into play and they find out how easily their identities are going to be revealed to the world.

Why do we need additional "regs" to enforce pre-existing law? Theft is theft. We don't need new regulation, we simply apply the regulation we already have. Get it? No, of course not. You will never get it because for you getting it means admitting defeat.

You can feel good about 'sticking it to the man' while little whores like ryan kennedy are robbing you blind from behind their monitors for a sum far more then jp morgan did.

Really? You are saying there is a bigger thief on the planet than JP Morgan? Please, do go on...

If we have learned anything, it's that these cheeky 20 and 30 somethings with attitude need to check their place.

What I learned is old people just can't get it... It doesn't even matter how physically old you are. If you are mentally old, you won't get it.

One thing I do get is how young 20 to 30 somethings involved in bitcoin like you have very little idea of the true scale of corruption in this world, yet finds it convenient to blame wall st. It's very typical - almost cute. Just hope that bubble doesn't get burst by reality.

Also, you completely missed the idea behind my statement about scale of business in comparing crypto to wall st in terms of corruption. What it means is that you must consider the proportion of outright scams and quasi legal activities within their respective economies and the time length in which they had to implement such corruption, then compare the two entities and see where all that got you in terms of the naive 'we are pure and wall st is corrupt bitch moan bitch moan'.

The only difference is the fact that smart con men deceive others, while weak and inexperienced con deceives himself first. It's a pretty obvious path these kids take to rationalize their circumstances and actions - and being very honest here it's pretty damn childish.

Bottom line is, crypto has no business bitching about corruption of others anymore. You have conclusively proven that common people who claimed to be victims of 'ultimate corruption' in wall st are mainly motivated by the desire for themselves to be the big cheese, not because of any better purpose that they constantly mouth off about.

[Spoetnik]

you bashed the regulation OP in your first post.
but.. you did not state any specific parts of the legislation
aside from one scary bad example of the hot dog vender and id.
you did not say this was a real part of the legislation or a part of an example you made for dramatic purposes.

no decision and comment can be provided on what was posted in this forum topic alone.

of course popping your id out to buy a hotdog is dumb..
but is that what is being proposed ?

seems like you are scare mongering and FUD'Ing the proposal pretty hard.
with out giving any details as to what is said.

and no off site links don't matter.. you need to include them here or people will skip them and guess what is going on.

i am all for a dramatic portrayals but i usually prefer an accurate one with as much detail as possible.

i have been for regulation for ages too *if done right and that should involve getting feedback from the entire world wide communities.
a rush to push through bad regulation would be more harmful than what we have already.
a compromise needs to be made between big banks etc and the bitcoiners.
i hope this is doable.. and it does not wind up an issue where they simply push their slanted biased crap on us giving them the advantage over us hindering Bitcoin.

we need facts not hysteria about regulation.
you posted this so guys will get all riled up over regulation like it's all bad.
regulation has to happen or it can't fit in with the rest of society.. regulation is not an option it's an inevitability..

i spent last year telling everyone they better start thinking about it then because it's coming and FAST !
and i was told no way and that they can't etc
They are and they will !
and it will matter when your accounts are seized etc
Bitcoin can not function with out links to Fiat not any time soon that is for sure.

Don't waste your time fighting regulation.. think of ways to improve it so it works everyone.

[Spoetnik]

One thing I do get is how young 20 to 30 somethings involved in bitcoin like you have very little idea of the true scale of corruption in this world, yet finds it convenient to blame wall st. It's very typical - almost cute. Just hope that bubble doesn't get burst by reality.

Also, you completely missed the idea behind my statement about scale of business in comparing crypto to wall st in terms of corruption. What it means is that you must consider the proportion of outright scams and quasi legal activities within their respective economies and the time length in which they had to implement such corruption, then compare the two entities and see where all that got you in terms of the naive 'we are pure and wall st is corrupt bitch moan bitch moan'.

The only difference is the fact that smart con men deceive others, while weak and inexperienced con deceives himself first. It's a pretty obvious path these kids take to rationalize their circumstances and actions - and being very honest here it's pretty damn childish.

Bottom line is, crypto has no business bitching about corruption of others anymore. You have conclusively proven that common people who claimed to be victims of 'ultimate corruption' in wall st are mainly motivated by the desire for themselves to be the big cheese, not because of any better purpose that they constantly mouth off about.

i agree a side by side comparison would show us in the crypto scene i think as faaaaaaaaaaaaar more corrupt than Wall street !

[Black Fire]

New York would be stupid to try this. I live in NY. I wouldn't do it. I would just use a vendor that accepts a anono type coin on the DL. 

[TaylorSwift]

New York would be stupid to try this. I live in NY. I wouldn't do it. I would just use a vendor that accepts a anono type coin on the DL. 

I have to agree. It will just cause it to go more underground.

[pattu1]

New York is the financial capital with respect to fiat currency.
Bitcoin needs a new center.

[AltCoinBuddah]

New York is the financial capital with respect to fiat currency.
Bitcoin needs a new center.

There is a Bitcoin center in NY.

[PlatinumExpress]

New York is the financial capital with respect to fiat currency.
Bitcoin needs a new center.

There is a Bitcoin center in NY.

I've actually been to it.

[BittBurger]

thanks to New York’s Superintendent of Financial Services, Benjamin Lawsky. This new artificially imposed homicide might as well be called – Death by Regulation.

Here's my response:   Who.  Fucking.  Cares.

After watching the Canadian Senate Hearings, I no longer give a flying fudge about the BitLicense, Lawsky, or anyone else who tries to over-regulate Bitcoin.  There are other countries than the beloved US of A.

Unless you're a Die Hard American Patriot™ who gets upset when the USA isn't the center of the universe (barf), what Benjamin Lawsky does is completely irrelevant.  

Bitcoin is worldwide.  Therefore all this jibber jabber about how Lawsky is going to adversely affect Bitcoin, is a bunch of hooey.  

The only thing he's going to adversely affect is the quantity of businesses that make NYC home.  

He's screwing New York City.  Not Bitcoin.  This is happening.  With or without him.

-B-

[Spoetnik]

you can't pretend that if USA enforces tough reg's on us it don't matter.
it does and the ramifications would be massive !

most services online for Bitcoin are based in the USA that i have encountered.

i have heard that angst ridden retort lots but it's simply not realistic sorry..

edit:

Let me put it this way guys..

You don't want to vote and will sit there and say it don't matter etc
but what happens ?
The country gets run how ever it does with out your input.

People are running out of time fast to get their input in on the issue.
we have had a year or 3 to get involved and be heard and what we see is
big talk on Obama having his CC denied.. priorities guys  

contribute or you get what you get..

[TheGer]

This is a non issue.

We have genius level people developing this technology and it will outpace any controls they try and put on us.  Quit trying to tie crypto into corrupt fiat money systems where they can try and control it and it will bloom.

[BittBurger]

you can't pretend that if USA enforces tough reg's on us it don't matter.
it does and the ramifications would be massive !

Incorrect.  You must be an American.  The viewpoint that we somehow control the world.
There are 6.8 billion people outside of the USA and 300 million inside the USA.
Even if the USA completely bans Bitcoin, which it wont, the only difference is # of people adopting, which will be decreased by a minor amount.
So your Bitcoins wont be worth $40,000 in 10 years, they'll be worth $37,000.

most services online for Bitcoin are based in the USA that i have encountered.

So what?  What is happening now, is not relevant to what will happen in the future.

You're freaking out over nothing.  If you like I can PM you in a year and say "I told you so".  Just let me know.

-B-

[nutildah]

This is a non issue.

We have genius level people developing this technology and it will outpace any controls they try and put on us.  Quit trying to tie crypto into corrupt fiat money systems where they can try and control it and it will bloom.

We aren't the ones pushing for government regulation.

Even if the technology evolves into something different, are you happy with the prospect of bitcoin being regulated into uselessness?

We can already transfer real money wirelessly, its just inconvenient to have to do it through a government and 3rd party intermediary like PayPal or Western Union that demands a cut (which is sometimes pretty substantial). This is why bitcoin has value.

[nutildah]

you can't pretend that if USA enforces tough reg's on us it don't matter.
it does and the ramifications would be massive !

Incorrect.  You must be an American.

Uh oh. You've really done it now!!!  

But Spoetnik is correct. Do you remember what happened in 2008? Oh, right, thats when Iceland's banking system collapsed and dragged down the rest of the world with it.. wasn't it? LOL.

No disrespect to any potential Icelandic forum members.  

[TheGer]

You can't regulate it into uselessness.  We as users can dictate what and where it has value.  If we went strictly barter with BTC we could eliminate fiat corruption altogether.  I sold 3 circuits some months ago for 3LTC, also there is a guy in town I know that builds decks on the side for BTC.

The possibilities are endless.  You create your own demise trying to tie Crypto into fiat corruption.

This is a non issue.

We have genius level people developing this technology and it will outpace any controls they try and put on us.  Quit trying to tie crypto into corrupt fiat money systems where they can try and control it and it will bloom.

We aren't the ones pushing for government regulation.

Even if the technology evolves into something different, are you happy with the prospect of bitcoin being regulated into uselessness?

We can already transfer real money wirelessly, its just inconvenient to have to do it through a government and 3rd party intermediary like PayPal or Western Union that demands a cut (which is sometimes pretty substantial). This is why bitcoin has value.

[nutildah]

The possibilities are endless.  You create your own demise trying to tie Crypto into fiat corruption.

Again, I'm not tying anything to anything. I'm just stating that there is a strong likelihood that world governments will make efforts to regulate cryptocurrency, and when they do, their citizens should be wary.

[MicroGuy]

The possibilities are endless.  You create your own demise trying to tie Crypto into fiat corruption.

Again, I'm not tying anything to anything. I'm just stating that there is a strong likelihood that world governments will make efforts to regulate cryptocurrency, and when they do, their citizens should be wary.

Yes. I think if merchants become regulated to the point where Bitcoin customers are required to provide ID to make purchases, it will hamper its adoption by making cash and plastic more attractive options.

Most likely the ruling "establishment" will use regulation as a dimmer switch which they can finesse to the degree that they keep cryptocurrencies in the novelty payment category used by a minority on the fringes.

[Slingshot]

One thing I do get is how young 20 to 30 somethings involved in bitcoin like you have very little idea of the true scale of corruption in this world, yet finds it convenient to blame wall st. It's very typical - almost cute. Just hope that bubble doesn't get burst by reality.

Also, you completely missed the idea behind my statement about scale of business in comparing crypto to wall st in terms of corruption. What it means is that you must consider the proportion of outright scams and quasi legal activities within their respective economies and the time length in which they had to implement such corruption, then compare the two entities and see where all that got you in terms of the naive 'we are pure and wall st is corrupt bitch moan bitch moan'.

The only difference is the fact that smart con men deceive others, while weak and inexperienced con deceives himself first. It's a pretty obvious path these kids take to rationalize their circumstances and actions - and being very honest here it's pretty damn childish.

Bottom line is, crypto has no business bitching about corruption of others anymore. You have conclusively proven that common people who claimed to be victims of 'ultimate corruption' in wall st are mainly motivated by the desire for themselves to be the big cheese, not because of any better purpose that they constantly mouth off about.

i agree a side by side comparison would show us in the crypto scene i think as faaaaaaaaaaaaar more corrupt than Wall street !

(Not edited, your simply not worthy of that much of my time anymore. Not until you bitches get a grip on reality...)


 While you kiddies keep throwing mud at each other in this thread and thinking you all have any clue at the scale of corruption on Wall Street, and at the Fed, and in the Major Banks, and at the US Treasury Department, plus everywhere else throughout our economy and throughout every industry it just shows how much you all have yet to learn. Except of course for precious few grey haired old fools.

 And the only thing miscalculated by the likes of us few old grey fools was how severely corrupt and broken our very monetary system and regulatory bodies were and are. In fact, the Fed, their member banks, and Wall Street has all our regulatory bodies in their back pockets. Worse, due to full tilt DE-regulation over the last 35 years straight Wall Street was enabled to destroy itself just as the major Banks destroyed themselves.

 Of course they took us all down with them, but a precious few are still able to extend and pretend while dimwits here that think they have nary a clue bring serious fury and worry to those like myself for even daring to think they have a clue. YOU DON'T, not 99% of you. You don't have a damn clue yet, but very soon you will get the education you desperately need.

 From Wall Street to the Halls of Congress to Every Industry in the western world their all Mobbed Up with systemic corruption. Every few generations this results, and so far it keeps repeating. All due to stupid/selfish/relentless greed and the lies built by idiots that are too extremely greedy and stupid for their own, best, long term interests.

 When Bitcoin arrived the 'little thugs' moved into Bitcoin to scam, fleece, sucker, cajole and bamboozle all you kiddies. This sector much like any other sector is merely a reflection of the world at large. Nothing more, nothing less.

 While you scream like idiots will that we must use the half ass, insecure GNU/Linux distro's and trust their safe (their not), and that we must believe what you claim even though you haven't a nary of a fucking clue. Bullshit!

 Linux is no more secure than Winblows. Period, in fact it's far less secure than a properly secured winbox but then you clowns don't know the first thing about Systems Administration but instead are mostly half ass, shade tree code warriors.  And just dump that pile of shit called AppleMac right out the window as it's so far behind the curve it will never catch up except for the spoiled idiots that believe in fairies and are the biggest suckers for a slick marketing genius that killed Apple the moment he passed away. Unless your into heavy Graphics you have no business dancing with the ripoff termed Mac's.

 Fact: Many of us got robbed so severely during the last 15 years straight by corruption on Wall Street, and in the Major Banks, and by the most corrupt institution of all time (The Fed, i.e. the Federal Reserve Inc. that is owned by it's Member Banks) that we embraced Bitcoin whole heartedly when that dim light bulb finally lite up in our foggy, old brains. And we are determined to utterly and totally destroy the just named and mentioned criminal, organized crime, mobster lead and run financial/monetary institutions.

 Satoshi too believes exactly what the few of us believe. That they must be destroyed at all costs, and we're not taking any prisoners. And it was Satoshi's genious that brought us all together. But here you whine, bitch, and spout off without so much as displaying much truth, let alone intelligence. Where is your backbone and spine?

 You bitches that refuse to do your due diligence best figure it out, because if not there is a world of hurt waiting for you spoiled, rotten bitches extremely soon down the cold, hard road termed the real globalized world that is about to bitch slap all of you so hard and furious that most of you don't have the medal to deal with it from the looks of things.

 Us old dogs, we have more than a clue. And yes, Only prudent, sensible regulation is required and mandatory. The rest of bullshit, both extremes. Anyone claiming else wise deserves to be terminated with extreme prejudice.

 Fuck New York. It's the land of Commie Pigs hell bent on dictating to the entire world, much like a few other places, and their all on the fast track to obviation because of their horrifically evil delusions of grandeur, extreme stupidity, and obscene selfishness.

 REDLINE the entire state of New York. - Their no longer desired nor were ever required in this brave new Decentralized Monetary Revolution. FUCK THEM ALL. Their now NO LONGER WELCOME.

 We wont be offering anyone nor anything within the borders of the state of New York State Bitcoin related business and transactions what so ever any more. NONE. They just screwed themselves out of the new monetary revolution completely with their dictatorial sheer stupidities. I wont get into the details. If one has paid any attention they know those. Anyone mentioning the lack of details...go fuck yourself.

 A massive global collapse and series of major wars looms large. But you bitches are too busy dancing around whining like candy asses to figure that out over a decade ago too when the financial and monetary walls were already crumbing all down way back then, and still to this day almost all of you are still sleepwalking into the Old World's Apocalypse. Today we're all on the eve of those events, and here all you all do is whine and pout thinking you just got fleeced worse than what occurred to the entire world when the Banksters and Wall Street brought the walls tumbling down in 1987, 2000, 2008, and again withing the next 18 months. Mark these last 6 words!

 And what do you bitches do in return? You reward failure after failure by doing business with these failures that demand to be bailed out to the tune of 16+ Trillion, and these same criminal, organized mafia thugs even have the brass balls to demand bonuses for their worst failures to ever walk this earth while calling them the best and brightest. How fucking quaint. Well go rush right out and get another Government Motors or Private Equity Shitbox car, idiots.

 Reward Failure? Capitalism? Never.

 Get a fucking grip.


 Bitcoin is Monetary Freedom, and freedom never comes without risks.

 Real Capitalism has real risks.

 Bitcoin has real risks.

 But the commies and fascist whores demand guarantees, backstops, bailouts, and bonuses, FOR THEIR FAILURES.

 These whores (both the commies and fascists) in New York demand to Privatize all the Profits while Socializing all their Losses onto taxpayers, just like all the other financial parasites and wealthy elite while I have the displeasure of reading so much nonsense in this thread that dismisses all that and so much more that I hereby rip you almost all a brand new asshole, and only wish that they fuck almost all of you so badly that your just as fucking destroyed as brain dead idiots deserves to be done to. After all, you supported it, voted for it, and there by enabled them.

Bottom Line:

 The entire system is corrupt to the core, and entirely criminal in it's intent.

 Even the God Damn Police are now turned into Highway Robbers stealing everyone's hard earned fat stacks of cash left and right without disregard due to their extreme conflicts of self interest and corruption when any of us are unlucky enough to travel by car throughout these hijacked lands.

 Fuck, even the Supreme Court and the rest of the Federal Courts are nothing less than mobbed up crimes in progress.

 And here some of you whine how Cryptocurrency is the most corrupt?? You have no fucking clue.


 So for these young kiddies that luv to use foul language? Well herein is an extra helping of that nonsensical blather.


 Get Serious, figure out solutions, get them implemented.

 We have a Monetary Revolution to finish.

 That's called leadership by the way.
The hard way. You earned it.
Get focused. Quit whining. Man Up.

[jonald_fyookball]

Most likely the ruling "establishment" will use regulation as a dimmer switch which they can finesse to the degree that they keep cryptocurrencies in the novelty payment category used by a minority on the fringes.

I think they will try but they will be ultimately unsuccessful.  There are too many winners from Bitcoin.
Merchants love Bitcoin because of the fees, but once the masses figure out that Bitcoin is the key to unlocking the prison of the banksters, no one will be able to stop it.  Freedom is too popular.

[Honeypot]

One thing I do get is how young 20 to 30 somethings involved in bitcoin like you have very little idea of the true scale of corruption in this world, yet finds it convenient to blame wall st. It's very typical - almost cute. Just hope that bubble doesn't get burst by reality.

Also, you completely missed the idea behind my statement about scale of business in comparing crypto to wall st in terms of corruption. What it means is that you must consider the proportion of outright scams and quasi legal activities within their respective economies and the time length in which they had to implement such corruption, then compare the two entities and see where all that got you in terms of the naive 'we are pure and wall st is corrupt bitch moan bitch moan'.

The only difference is the fact that smart con men deceive others, while weak and inexperienced con deceives himself first. It's a pretty obvious path these kids take to rationalize their circumstances and actions - and being very honest here it's pretty damn childish.

Bottom line is, crypto has no business bitching about corruption of others anymore. You have conclusively proven that common people who claimed to be victims of 'ultimate corruption' in wall st are mainly motivated by the desire for themselves to be the big cheese, not because of any better purpose that they constantly mouth off about.

i agree a side by side comparison would show us in the crypto scene i think as faaaaaaaaaaaaar more corrupt than Wall street !

(Not edited, your simply not worthy of that much of my time anymore. Not until you bitches get a grip on reality...)


 While you kiddies keep throwing mud at each other in this thread and thinking you all have any clue at the scale of corruption on Wall Street, and at the Fed, and in the Major Banks, and at the US Treasury Department, plus everywhere else throughout our economy and throughout every industry it just shows how much you all have yet to learn. Except of course for precious few grey haired old fools.

 And the only thing miscalculated by the likes of us few old grey fools was how severely corrupt and broken our very monetary system and regulatory bodies were and are. In fact, the Fed, their member banks, and Wall Street has all our regulatory bodies in their back pockets. Worse, due to full tilt DE-regulation over the last 35 years straight Wall Street was enabled to destroy itself just as the major Banks destroyed themselves.

 Of course they took us all down with them, but a precious few are still able to extend and pretend while dimwits here that think they have nary a clue bring serious fury and worry to those like myself for even daring to think they have a clue. YOU DON'T, not 99% of you. You don't have a damn clue yet, but very soon you will get the education you desperately need.

 From Wall Street to the Halls of Congress to Every Industry in the western world their all Mobbed Up with systemic corruption. Every few generations this results, and so far it keeps repeating. All due to stupid/selfish/relentless greed and the lies built by idiots that are too extremely greedy and stupid for their own, best, long term interests.

 When Bitcoin arrived the 'little thugs' moved into Bitcoin to scam, fleece, sucker, cajole and bamboozle all you kiddies. This sector much like any other sector is merely a reflection of the world at large. Nothing more, nothing less.

 While you scream like idiots will that we must use the half ass, insecure GNU/Linux distro's and trust their safe (their not), and that we must believe what you claim even though you haven't a nary of a fucking clue. Bullshit!

 Linux is no more secure than Winblows. Period, in fact it's far less secure than a properly secured winbox but then you clowns don't know the first thing about Systems Administration but instead are mostly half ass, shade tree code warriors.  And just dump that pile of shit called AppleMac right out the window as it's so far behind the curve it will never catch up except for the spoiled idiots that believe in fairies and are the biggest suckers for a slick marketing genius that killed Apple the moment he passed away. Unless your into heavy Graphics you have no business dancing with the ripoff termed Mac's.

 Fact: Many of us got robbed so severely during the last 15 years straight by corruption on Wall Street, and in the Major Banks, and by the most corrupt institution of all time (The Fed, i.e. the Federal Reserve Inc. that is owned by it's Member Banks) that we embraced Bitcoin whole heartedly when that dim light bulb finally lite up in our foggy, old brains. And we are determined to utterly and totally destroy the just named and mentioned criminal, organized crime, mobster lead and run financial/monetary institutions.

 Satoshi too believes exactly what the few of us believe. That they must be destroyed at all costs, and we're not taking any prisoners. And it was Satoshi's genious that brought us all together. But here you whine, bitch, and spout off without so much as displaying much truth, let alone intelligence. Where is your backbone and spine?

 You bitches that refuse to do your due diligence best figure it out, because if not there is a world of hurt waiting for you spoiled, rotten bitches extremely soon down the cold, hard road termed the real globalized world that is about to bitch slap all of you so hard and furious that most of you don't have the medal to deal with it from the looks of things.

 Us old dogs, we have more than a clue. And yes, Only prudent, sensible regulation is required and mandatory. The rest of bullshit, both extremes. Anyone claiming else wise deserves to be terminated with extreme prejudice.

 Fuck New York. It's the land of Commie Pigs hell bent on dictating to the entire world, much like a few other places, and their all on the fast track to obviation because of their horrifically evil delusions of grandeur, extreme stupidity, and obscene selfishness.

 REDLINE the entire state of New York. - Their no longer desired nor were ever required in this brave new Decentralized Monetary Revolution. FUCK THEM ALL. Their now NO LONGER WELCOME.

 We wont be offering anyone nor anything within the borders of the state of New York State Bitcoin related business and transactions what so ever any more. NONE. They just screwed themselves out of the new monetary revolution completely with their dictatorial sheer stupidities. I wont get into the details. If one has paid any attention they know those. Anyone mentioning the lack of details...go fuck yourself.

 A massive global collapse and series of major wars looms large. But you bitches are too busy dancing around whining like candy asses to figure that out over a decade ago too when the financial and monetary walls were already crumbing all down way back then, and still to this day almost all of you are still sleepwalking into the Old World's Apocalypse. Today we're all on the eve of those events, and here all you all do is whine and pout thinking you just got fleeced worse than what occurred to the entire world when the Banksters and Wall Street brought the walls tumbling down in 1987, 2000, 2008, and again withing the next 18 months. Mark these last 6 words!

 And what do you bitches do in return? You reward failure after failure by doing business with these failures that demand to be bailed out to the tune of 16+ Trillion, and these same criminal, organized mafia thugs even have the brass balls to demand bonuses for their worst failures to ever walk this earth while calling them the best and brightest. How fucking quaint. Well go rush right out and get another Government Motors or Private Equity Shitbox car, idiots.

 Reward Failure? Capitalism? Never.

 Get a fucking grip.


 Bitcoin is Monetary Freedom, and freedom never comes without risks.

 Real Capitalism has real risks.

 Bitcoin has real risks.

 But the commies and fascist whores demand guarantees, backstops, bailouts, and bonuses, FOR THEIR FAILURES.

 These whores (both the commies and fascists) in New York demand to Privatize all the Profits while Socializing all their Losses onto taxpayers, just like all the other financial parasites and wealthy elite while I have the displeasure of reading so much nonsense in this thread that dismisses all that and so much more that I hereby rip you almost all a brand new asshole, and only wish that they fuck almost all of you so badly that your just as fucking destroyed as brain dead idiots deserves to be done to. After all, you supported it, voted for it, and there by enabled them.

Bottom Line:

 The entire system is corrupt to the core, and entirely criminal in it's intent.

 Even the God Damn Police are now turned into Highway Robbers stealing everyone's hard earned fat stacks of cash left and right without disregard due to their extreme conflicts of self interest and corruption when any of us are unlucky enough to travel by car throughout these hijacked lands.

 Fuck, even the Supreme Court and the rest of the Federal Courts are nothing less than mobbed up crimes in progress.

 And here some of you whine how Cryptocurrency is the most corrupt?? You have no fucking clue.


 So for these young kiddies that luv to use foul language? Well herein is an extra helping of that nonsensical blather.


 Get Serious, figure out solutions, get them implemented.

 We have a Monetary Revolution to finish.

 That's called leadership by the way.
The hard way. You earned it.
Get focused. Quit whining. Man Up.

LOL this fool

[Spoetnik]

This is a non issue.

We have genius level people developing this technology and it will outpace any controls they try and put on us.  Quit trying to tie crypto into corrupt fiat money systems where they can try and control it and it will bloom.

the two are linked.. this is reality, drop the Bitcoin delusion and be realistic.

i support what you guys do but i am being honest and realistic about what is going on now ..and later.

Fiat is linked to bitcoin and if hypothetically all ties to Bitcoin were cut off now Bitcoin prices would be decimated
and that itself would cause even more crashing and bailing possibly leading to the death for the concept.

i get it, you're all scared of Big Bankers and their control but they ALREADY do control us and bitcoin.. open your eyes.

for smart people your all being colossally naive foolish and delusional .

[Spoetnik]

you can't pretend that if USA enforces tough reg's on us it don't matter.
it does and the ramifications would be massive !

Incorrect.  You must be an American.  The viewpoint that we somehow control the world.
There are 6.8 billion people outside of the USA and 300 million inside the USA.
Even if the USA completely bans Bitcoin, which it wont, the only difference is # of people adopting, which will be decreased by a minor amount.
So your Bitcoins wont be worth $40,000 in 10 years, they'll be worth $37,000.

most services online for Bitcoin are based in the USA that i have encountered.

So what?  What is happening now, is not relevant to what will happen in the future.

You're freaking out over nothing.  If you like I can PM you in a year and say "I told you so".  Just let me know.

-B-

I am from Canada and no screw the USA..
China has a bigger economy now and they went from being half of the USA in 2006 to eclipsing it as of last week.
And you failed hard.. it was not about the USA it was about any one country or all of them such as Russia and China having regulation news that decimated Bitcoin prices before.
so my point is 100% accurate and correct.. whether i used the USA as an example, or not.

i had one of the first PC's and have been online for decades and i have rallied against the ant-piracy movement as my main hobby.
there is a LOT of parallels to what you guys are arguing about with me and the copyright piracy battles.
so i see crystal clear what you are saying and i also know damn well what i am talking about.. the old David vs Goliath bs..
Piracy vs Big Media.. or Bitcoin vs Big Finance / Govt.
Ya ya ..i get it LOL  

you guys are being cocky and naive and foolish trust me.

[Spoetnik]

You can't regulate it into uselessness.  We as users can dictate what and where it has value.  If we went strictly barter with BTC we could eliminate fiat corruption altogether.  I sold 3 circuits some months ago for 3LTC, also there is a guy in town I know that builds decks on the side for BTC.

The possibilities are endless.  You create your own demise trying to tie Crypto into fiat corruption.

This is a non issue.

We have genius level people developing this technology and it will outpace any controls they try and put on us.  Quit trying to tie crypto into corrupt fiat money systems where they can try and control it and it will bloom.

We aren't the ones pushing for government regulation.

Even if the technology evolves into something different, are you happy with the prospect of bitcoin being regulated into uselessness?

We can already transfer real money wirelessly, its just inconvenient to have to do it through a government and 3rd party intermediary like PayPal or Western Union that demands a cut (which is sometimes pretty substantial). This is why bitcoin has value.

nope.. many of us are NOT talking about "bitcoin being regulated into uselessness?"
we're talking about making Regulation work WITH us for OUR benefit !

Coindesk has a long history showing stories about various big or small companies or even average users having our misc accounts seized because of ties to Bitcoin.
accounts with huge amounts of money in random countries have been taken with no warning and the money sized permanently !
and i have experienced the blacklisting at banks myself as well as a costly and damaging stressful investigation from Paypal
all because of TIES TO BITCOIN.. (stemming from Regulations)

they said who are you and i had to go to extraordinary lengths to prove who i was.. i thought that was it.. oh hell no !

Then they wanted extreme proof of what i was doing with my Paypal account such as what i had been buying and proof i got the stuff i bought ? ..done ? ..hell no !

Next the Big problem (they made up) was WHERE did i get the money from i sent to my Paypal account.
And again they put me through the ringer.. BIG TIME !
I had uploaded about 64 images including scans of invoices, picture id scans birth certificate, pic's of items, screen caps & emails from online retailers + more
and was i done ? ..hell no !

they made me wait jerking me around for few more weeks (while i was auto banned on day one from their forums like all guys with frozen accounts)
and when i used an old alt Paypal account to login to the forums no matter how much of a stink i made the staff ignored me 101%

After that i got an email from them saying they need to know where i got my money from..
i told them, from BTC-e cashing out their min withdrawal amount 2x to Paypal. (aprox $5,000 usd)
Then more waiting and jerking me around sending me to the resolution center with a pending status still and then they came back and said..
You are in violation of our terms of service and you need to pay out of pocket to get a signed affidavit done by a lawyer and send it to us.

And i want to point out the key part was here is they demanded i do that with no assurance or even the slightest hint at all that doing that affadavit
would help get my account unlocked or help get my money back.. they insisted no matter how hard i fought them on it i had to do it or they were taking my account + money.
So i had NO CHOICE but to have a lawyer look at me funny as i said i had to have PROOF for PP in writing i BROKE Paypal's Terms of service !
I had no idea if this would even help.. for all i knew they could have simply said sorry you broke our TOS so your account and money is gone.. bye.

..This was the affidavit email below (one of maybe around 60 emails i had back and forth with them)

Hello [removed],
 
We have reviewed your PayPal account and found that you have been involved
in the sale of electronic media exchange (such as electronic money or
digital currency). Per our current Acceptable Use Policy for Money Service
Businesses, PayPal may not be used for currency exchange including the sale
of BitCoins.
 
To continue using your PayPal account, we need some additional information
from you. Keep in mind that we have placed a limitation on your PayPal
account, and this limitation will remain until we receive and review this
information. Please provide us with a signed and notarized affidavit
stating that you understand and will comply with PayPal’s terms and
conditions.
 
The affidavit should include the following language. You can simply copy
and paste the text below to a blank document and then print it for
signature and notarization:
 
I, the undersigned, do affirm that I understand and will comply with
PayPal's policy regarding the use of PayPal accounts to sell electronic
currency. I understand that PayPal may not be used for the exchange of
electronic currency. I further affirm that any future violation of the
policy may result in immediate restricted access to the account.
 
Next Steps:
 
After you sign and notarize the affidavit, please log in to your account
and go to the Resolution Center for further instructions on how to send us
the document. Your account will remain limited until the issue is resolved.
 
We look forward to hearing from you and thank you for choosing PayPal as
your payment provider.
 
Sincerely,
Robert
PayPal Compliance Department
PayPal, an eBay Company
 
Please do not reply to this email address as it is not monitored and we
will not receive your response. You can get in touch with us by clicking
"Contact Us" at the bottom of any PayPal page.
 
Copyright © 1999-2013 PayPal. All rights reserved.

i paid the lawyer fee to get that done then scanned it and sent it to them and still after going on 3 months waiting for my money i needed bad !
They then made me wait a week or something then they accepted that and said simply.. your account is unlocked.. that was it.

but i noticed almost $700 was missing because they stopped a payment to Newegg when i bought PC parts and my payment was auto split up by Newegg
into 2 amounts owing (invoices) because of shipping item sources.. 75% of the items were coming from New York and the rest from California.
and their web site did not say anything about this ahead of time and mentioned one total owing only !

So when i clicked submit the Newegg site on the fly auto cut up my 1 single order invoice to Paypal into 2 separate Paypal amount owing invoices..
so when they locked my Paypal account they froze the two pending payments i thought had been sent (i thought my bill was paid)

When they released the account and had finished damaging my reputation as a non payer with Newegg they released the payment(1) that was frozen to Newegg
BUT.. only one part of it and not the other and no matter how many times i contacted Paypal they kept insisting the payment was sent to Newegg
and i needed to contact them etc.. so i did over and over... and they both kept sending me back and forth.. all along i knew Paypal was lying !

after about 3 additional weeks i finally got Paypal to admit the stole aprox. $700 dollars from me (i cornered some guy on PP's Twitter Help page via pm until he caved in)
Newegg kept saying Paypal only sent 1 of 2 payments and i believed Newegg not the scammer pricks at Paypal !
Eventually i got the payments made and my money back minus the lawyer costs and 3+ months of stress and a never ending extreme investigation harassment drama etc.

I also had never had any shady activity even once on any account i have used before on any site or service and my Bitcoins came from trading legit !

You guys getting it yet ?
No they can't ban it but they can do shit like that LOL

Wake up.. seriously, you guys are being seriously stupid and naive.

I talked to a guy on IRC back then in January 2014 when i was investigated and he said a similar story and he was locked out of 128k for almost a year with Paypal.
eventually he got a lawyer to get the money back.. after a year (i think they keep it after a year he said)
AND !!
When i had the investigation going on i Google'd part of the email they sent me i quoted earlier and guess what i found ?
A guy on bitcointalk who aprox a year earlier had gotten the same damn email word for word on this forum with the same circumstances !

and hey wanna have a chat with business owners who had accounts that were connected to an exchange transfer in Argentina for example who had lost 250k.. seized ?

Wanna have a chat with guys who were arrested by the FBI in a parking lot in Florida after arranging a meeting to sell Bitcoins using the service LocalBitcoins ?

How many examples do you all want ? i have lots

The cocky stupid tough guy it doesn't matter i am a big bad Bitcoin bad ass bullshit is hilarious  
oh yes, it does in fact matter what regulation they implement .

i couldn't care less how smart some of you here think you are.. listen to me i am right and i am warning you to be helpful with advice.. take it !
I was against regulations when i started in crypto too.. but after a while i realized it's not the boogieman i thought it was before.
And since it will be forced on us anyway the ONLY INTELLIGENT thing to do is cope with it and add our input to it..
so we can work with it or we can take what is jammed down our throats anyway with their own pro biased Big-Banker version of it.. think about it guys !

[Slingshot]

Hey Honeypot,

 Your a fucking troll and trouble maker, along with a huge narcissist. Gee, do you care for a full detail of
what you are? Have you not still noticed your merely yet another troll with the handle of a chump?

 Clowns like you Honeypot think you have it made, and can force everyone else to their beck and call,
and that nothing you do will ever blow-back onto you and yours. BUT NO MORE. NEVER AGAIN. Your going
down for the count. Same for all the other Failures just like yourself.

 Be sure and tell that to your banker master too, and tell him we said FUCK YOU ALL GOOD BYE FOREVER.
Or are you still searching for that next gig while you whore yourself as a troll-slut for free in these parts?
Seems you have a lot of time on your hands, lol, and haven't the foggiest clue of what living is all about.

 As I glace again at your arrival date here at bitcointalk.org it's obvious your still very much wet behind the
ears and thinking your all that. But it's also obvious Bitcoin ruffles your feathers a mighty bit. Get used to it.

 Honeypot your delusions of grandeur are about to bitch slap you down so hard you wont ever recover.

  You have added nothing to this cause, and are only here to cause as much havoc as possible. Yet instead
you are silly enough to choose the name Honeypot instead of Mr. Havoc, thus denoting your IQ level.

 Your nothing but the scum from a toilet Honeypot. And your constant trolling here is Persona non grata.
 
By all means do us all favor go crawl back under that rock you hide under, or fast figure out a way to make nice.

Name:    Honeypot
Posts:    1530
Activity:    336
Position:    Sr. Member
Date Registered:    December 03, 2013, 01:05:14 PM
Last Active:    Today at 03:19:03 AM



 Honeypot, What a wasteful, trolling clown. Now go make use of that large rich boy's trust fund and figure
out that life isn't trolling on the internet. And do yourself a huge favor, don't believe the nonsense your
so well programed and brainwashed into accepting as fact when it's nothing but pure fiction.

[tooil]

Pretty heated arguments here with no obvious benefit of winning it.

Guess someone has too much time on hand.

[Honeypot]

Hey Honeypot,

 Your a fucking troll and trouble maker, along with a huge narcissist. Gee, do you care for a full detail of
what you are? Have you not still noticed your merely yet another troll with the handle of a chump?

 Clowns like you Honeypot think you have it made, and can force everyone else to their beck and call,
and that nothing you do will ever blow-back onto you and yours. BUT NO MORE. NEVER AGAIN. Your going
down for the count. Same for all the other Failures just like yourself.

 Be sure and tell that to your banker master too, and tell him we said FUCK YOU ALL GOOD BYE FOREVER.
Or are you still searching for that next gig while you whore yourself as a troll-slut for free in these parts?
Seems you have a lot of time on your hands, lol, and haven't the foggiest clue of what living is all about.

 As I glace again at your arrival date here at bitcointalk.org it's obvious your still very much wet behind the
ears and thinking your all that. But it's also obvious Bitcoin ruffles your feathers a mighty bit. Get used to it.

 Honeypot your delusions of grandeur are about to bitch slap you down so hard you wont ever recover.

  You have added nothing to this cause, and are only here to cause as much havoc as possible. Yet instead
you are silly enough to choose the name Honeypot instead of Mr. Havoc, thus denoting your IQ level.

 Your nothing but the scum from a toilet Honeypot. And your constant trolling here is Persona non grata.
 
By all means do us all favor go crawl back under that rock you hide under, or fast figure out a way to make nice.

Name:    Honeypot
Posts:    1530
Activity:    336
Position:    Sr. Member
Date Registered:    December 03, 2013, 01:05:14 PM
Last Active:    Today at 03:19:03 AM



 Honeypot, What a wasteful, trolling clown. Now go make use of that large rich boy's trust fund and figure
out that life isn't trolling on the internet. And do yourself a huge favor, don't believe the nonsense your
so well programed and brainwashed into accepting as fact when it's nothing but pure fiction.

LOL

Watch that mouth fool, and know your place. 'wet behind the ears' sounds perfect for you considering you bitch at this level.

Pretty heated arguments here with no obvious benefit of winning it.

Guess someone has too much time on hand.

No doubt. I come back to check on any discussions on this topic and we got one delusional fool running his mouth where it doesn't belong

[Spoetnik]

Pretty heated arguments here with no obvious benefit of winning it.

Guess someone has too much time on hand.

Did you expect a big Woodstock love in on a topic using the term "death sentence" about regulations ?

I do enjoy another random useless off topic comment pleading for us all to be nice though..
and i agree that is pretty useless LOL

it's pretty easy to shelf your opinions and hide and spray paint all the roses red and the grass green..
some of us actually contribute though.. and some of are cowards scared to share their opinion.

any and all TALK on bitcoin should be positive or people will not come and buy my Bitcoin's later for 10k each.
regulations ? shhh don't talk about it !

Maybe stay on exchange chat boxes ? I hear they like to moderate any negative comments pretty thoroughly LOL

Anyway LOL
I have not checked back on this New York Regulation proposal business.. shouldn't public input be over now ? anyone know ?
That is what this topic was about LOL