CRYPTSY STAKES POS COINS (XST)!!!!!! EXPOSED! w/ links

[Eastbay]

so after whats been going on with XST lately and cryptsy users having large amounts of XST deposited into their accounts out of no where i started some investigative work.

the block in which the "free" xst was deposited to users accounts was this (as well as the next 8 blocks) ....  http://explorer.argakiig.us/t/sbEM5rvwf

you can then see in the next 5 blocks over 1.5million coins are moved to one address... here..  http://explorer.argakiig.us/a/sbvo

I then confronted Horus who confirmed that YES they do STAKE there POS coins!!!!

This means that cryptsy could fork ANY POS coin listed at there whim, they could dump it to buy cheap or just plain kill a coin they dont like, or worse DOUBLE SPEND attacks

i can get more indepth with this is if theres interest, i just wanted to get the news out ASAP...

[Come-In-Behind]

It's the Dumbass PoS supporters/developers fault. PoS=Piece of Shit and rightly so.

[Come-In-Behind]

It's not Cryptsy's fault, they're just making money.

It's the Dumbass PoS supporters/developers fault. PoS=Piece of Shit and rightly so.

Then you know nothing about Cryptsy at all. if you say its not their fault. Noobs like you will fall again into the next GOX trap, but well i don't care if fuckups like you end up broke.

How fast do you fucking quote. I edited that out. Fuckups like me, I've likely made more than you'll ever see in your life.

[AltcoinInvestor]

Why are you shocked?

Of course they'll get free stake of millions of pos coins'.

Because most of idiots keep their coins at exchanges....

[Eastbay]

It's not Cryptsy's fault, they're just making money.

It's the Dumbass PoS supporters/developers fault. PoS=Piece of Shit and rightly so.

Then you know nothing about Cryptsy at all. if you say its not their fault. Noobs like you will fall again into the next GOX trap, but well i don't care if fuckups like you end up broke.

EXACTLY! these people dont even see the ramifications of this.. ITS HUGE now it makes sense why they have all there coins in one massive wallet, more POS hashrate, cryptsy got caught with there pants donw on XST, something is definately fishy and im still working out the finer points, its pretty obvious this is VERY UNSAFE for the altcoin commuinity thou

atleast they could break up coins into multiple wallets to mitigate the overall hashrate for one account


and now Cryptsy has frozen the XST market again.... LOL

[Koneb]

Someone told me about this while ago. It's pretty easy to see that those volumes are mostly coming from people who work for cryptsy and you can find all crap coins there. . It's pretty much a scam to rob new guys out of their money.

[Ix]

cryptsy got caught with there pants donw on XST

Did Cryptsy say they were not staking proof of stake coins? Otherwise, why wouldn't they? Of course it is an issue of centralization, but isn't it as obvious as mining pools in bitcoin?

[Eastbay]

cryptsy got caught with there pants donw on XST

Did Cryptsy say they were not staking proof of stake coins? Otherwise, why wouldn't they? Of course it is an issue of centralization, but isn't it as obvious as mining pools in bitcoin?

 I was always under the impression that NO exchanges DID not stake coins, think about it it would cause constant downward pressure with there sells and they could do whatever they want with the coin, fork it because they dont like the dev/commuinity or to get it low and buy up cheap coins then fix it... its just not SAFE ATALL

atleast they should break it up into multiple wallets which would limit the negative options available to them

[BitJohn]

This is nothing new. When did Cryptsy ever state we do not stake coins? Some coins we do, others do not stake well. Some coins have bugs where even when you turn staking off they stake (XST). Some use so much CPU its not worth staking them.

In our Terms of Service https://www.cryptsy.com/pages/terms

28. Staking Interest

Some Cryptsy wallets may provide staking interest rewards. Any staking rewards, conversions, snapshots, or likewise will become the property of Cryptsy.


Though I wont say how many coins we keep in cold storage. Obviously those do not stake.

Edit:
Would you mind removing Exposed from the title. Since there is nothing exposed. Its always been publicly stated, and is spelled out in the Terms of Service. Do not mind the discussion, but your implying its a conspiracy.

[BombaUcigasa]

It's the Dumbass PoS supporters/developers fault. PoS=Piece of Shit and rightly so.

This.

Oh, PoS so so good, yummy yummy in my tummy... people just don't want to decentralize... bitcoin is wasted on their puny minds...

These people are the ones voting for socialists to raise their pension. They just don't understand that quantity != value.

Let's just sit around doing nothing, surely that merits rewards...

[Eastbay]

This is nothing new. When did Cryptsy ever state we do not stake coins? Some coins we do, others do not stake well. Some coins have bugs where even when you turn staking off they stake (XST). Some use so much CPU its not worth staking them.

In our Terms of Service https://www.cryptsy.com/pages/terms

28. Staking Interest

Some Cryptsy wallets may provide staking interest rewards. Any staking rewards, conversions, snapshots, or likewise will become the property of Cryptsy.


Though I wont say how many coins we keep in cold storage. Obviously those do not stake.

the least you could do is to separate the staking coins into multiple wallets to mitigate the potential issues with controlling the blockchain, or else you guys could control the blockchain doing double spends or forks at will, please take that into consideration

[MeSoHorny]

Wow this is a crap move on Crypty's part. Time to move mine to bittrex.

[BitJohn]

Wow this is a crap move on Crypty's part. Time to move mine to bittrex.

Yeah they stake too more than likely. The ones who tell you they do not are probably lying.

Edit:
Not really a move either since its always been public and always been stated.

[krach]

bittrex doesnt stake?

[Bolomir]

"Some coins have bugs where even when you turn staking off they stake (XST)"

So let me get this right. This thing is not happening at Trex, but is happening only at Cryptsy, also the wallet is broke for a week, and is XST's fault ?
And hey if I turn my wallet's staking off it won't stake.
Cool!

[BitJohn]

"Some coins have bugs where even when you turn staking off they stake (XST)"

So let me get this right. This thing is not happening at Trex, but is happening only at Cryptsy, also the wallet is broke for a week, and is XST's fault ?
And hey if I turn my wallet's staking off it won't stake.
Cool!

Not hear to debate the XST offline issue, but here is my response since you brought it up. Yes the makefile for XST was beyond broken so took us time to recreate it, and to compile the daemon.

Also undocumented fixes like the broke stake switch (causing staking even when turned off which in this coins case it was). Causes issues with wallets and integration so its offline while we thoroughly review.

The stake commit earlier referenced. https://github.com/StealthSend/Stealth/commit/1551553eb9c66631560514ea738e5aab80898638

[moonchaser]

"Some coins have bugs where even when you turn staking off they stake (XST)"

So let me get this right. This thing is not happening at Trex, but is happening only at Cryptsy, also the wallet is broke for a week, and is XST's fault ?
And hey if I turn my wallet's staking off it won't stake.
Cool!

Not hear to debate the XST offline issue, but here is my response since you brought it up. Yes the makefile for XST was beyond broken so took us time to recreate it, and to compile the daemon.

Also undocumented fixes like the broke stake switch (causing staking even when turned off which in this coins case it was). Causes issues with wallets and integration so its offline while we thoroughly review.

The stake commit earlier referenced. https://github.com/StealthSend/Stealth/commit/1551553eb9c66631560514ea738e5aab80898638

I see...still Trex is not having the same issues, nor any other exchanges, so I hope you don't mind if I wonder why just Cryptsy had this problem.

[BitJohn]

"Some coins have bugs where even when you turn staking off they stake (XST)"

So let me get this right. This thing is not happening at Trex, but is happening only at Cryptsy, also the wallet is broke for a week, and is XST's fault ?
And hey if I turn my wallet's staking off it won't stake.
Cool!

Not hear to debate the XST offline issue, but here is my response since you brought it up. Yes the makefile for XST was beyond broken so took us time to recreate it, and to compile the daemon.

Also undocumented fixes like the broke stake switch (causing staking even when turned off which in this coins case it was). Causes issues with wallets and integration so its offline while we thoroughly review.

The stake commit earlier referenced. https://github.com/StealthSend/Stealth/commit/1551553eb9c66631560514ea738e5aab80898638

I see...still Trex is not having the same issues, nor any other exchanges, so I hope you don't mind if I wonder why just Cryptsy had this problem.

Nope we eventually talked to Trex and they told us the pain they went through to fix the code and get it to compile properly. So I suppose you can thank them for that.

[bluemeanie1]

so after whats been going on with XST lately and cryptsy users having large amounts of XST deposited into their accounts out of no where i started some investigative work.

the block in which the "free" xst was deposited to users accounts was this (as well as the next 8 blocks) ....  http://explorer.argakiig.us/t/sbEM5rvwf

you can then see in the next 5 blocks over 1.5million coins are moved to one address... here..  http://explorer.argakiig.us/a/sbvo

I then confronted Horus who confirmed that YES they do STAKE ALL there POS coins!!!!

This means that cryptsy could fork ANY POS coin listed at there whim, they could dump it to buy cheap or just plain kill a coin they dont like, or worse DOUBLE SPEND attacks

i can get more indepth with this is if theres interest, i just wanted to get the news out ASAP...

there is interest.

[mullick]

There are a LOT on inaccuracies in this thread

1. Yes some coins we do stake with the hot wallets. If we find a way to do it safely and not impact the users. But most coins its ineffective to stake with as it requires too many resources or opens up security risks.

2. We only keep around 5-15% in our hot wallets. So that is all we would be contributing to the stake weight. No where neat 51% of the network weight

3. As for attacking coins. The way we move them in ineffective for that. If we wanted to pull off an attack ( Which we never would ) We would split the 1.7 Million into hundreds of thousands of smaller inputs.

4. The reason for the XST issue is 2 problems.

     4.a : We had an incorrect config option set. staking=0. XST uses stake=0 which is non standard. This is partly due to the documentation. But falls on us     as we should have reviewed the config options in the code.
     4.b : XST stake transactions are handled in a non standard way which we have adjusted for. Instead of stake transactions showing up as "immature" they show up as "received" after just one confirmation. We have adjusted our deposit script to catch them

That being said the damage was minimized by us not keeping all funds in the hot wallet so few inputs were left in users deposit addresses to stake and incorrectly credit.

We have no intention of staking with the hot wallet. As with XST it is ineffective.

[moonchaser]

Fine! Thanks for the info.

[defier]

Well something must be working right with the crptsy XST wallet.  It was staking on at least Oct 13.  Since we received our coins in our cryptsy wallets, on maturity, 3 days later.  

The wallet has been down since the shadowcoin fudstorm.  So a couple of weeks now.  That kind of staking while holding all of our coins in an online wallet would build up a helluva lot of minted coins.  Possibly enough to manipulate the market.  IF MP was doing that with the VERI wallet before the hack, it would sure explain why so many weren't in cold storage.

Since the XST wallet is in permanent maintenance we can't do anything except let cryptsy mint money off of our coins.  Artificially pushing down the value with so many being minted, on hostage coins.

I generally try to not go all tin foil hat like.  But DAMIT even for the day or 2 MP2 was up, they had a working XST wallet.  Cryptsy's had weeks and here we sit... waiting.

[Edit] which sucks as I've staked since POS began, and cryptsy is getting the coins I should be earning.  I keep a round number on the exchanges to buy and sell with the waves.  Sending any extra coins back to my wallet.  So far the only one earning interest on my Cryptsy XST purchases, is Cryptsy.

[mullick]

Well something must be working right with the crptsy XST wallet.  It was staking on at least Oct 13.  Since we received our coins in our cryptsy wallets, on maturity, 3 days later.  

The wallet has been down since the shadowcoin fudstorm.  So a couple of weeks now.  That kind of staking while holding all of our coins in an online wallet would build up a helluva lot of minted coins.  Possibly enough to manipulate the market.  IF MP was doing that with the VERI wallet before the hack, it would sure explain why so many weren't in cold storage.

Since the XST wallet is in permanent maintenance we can't do anything except let cryptsy mint money off of our coins.  Artificially pushing down the value with so many being minted, on hostage coins.

I generally try to not go all tin foil hat like.  But DAMIT even for the day or 2 MP2 was up, they had a working XST wallet.  Cryptsy's had weeks and here we sit... waiting.

We were not staking while the wallet was offline for 3 day. We were trying to sync the daemon.

I had to write a script to restart the daemon every 5 minutes in a infinite loop to get it past all the invalid blocks.

The reason all those blocks popped off is because it was down for so long. As soon as i opened it with the standard staking=0 and not the required stake=0 the blocks flew in until taken offline again

The reason other exchanges didnt have the issue.....They didnt redownload the blockchain

[defier]

Ok we'll be there/here waiting.

[bassguitarman]

Don't keep coins on exchanges.  The end

[Spoetnik]

This is nothing new. When did Cryptsy ever state we do not stake coins? Some coins we do, others do not stake well. Some coins have bugs where even when you turn staking off they stake (XST). Some use so much CPU its not worth staking them.

In our Terms of Service https://www.cryptsy.com/pages/terms

28. Staking Interest

Some Cryptsy wallets may provide staking interest rewards. Any staking rewards, conversions, snapshots, or likewise will become the property of Cryptsy.


Though I wont say how many coins we keep in cold storage. Obviously those do not stake.

Edit:
Would you mind removing Exposed from the title. Since there is nothing exposed. Its always been publicly stated, and is spelled out in the Terms of Service. Do not mind the discussion, but your implying its a conspiracy.

aside from any of my other unrelated past opinions/comments about cryptsy or other issues with them..
i have to agree with BJ here.

#1 = what he said is spot on.

#2 = i commend his effort to 'ask' you nicely to edit the title.
       this is a reasonable request in my eyes.. nothing is being exposed, instead this is pretty much a common sense issue i think.
       and you spelled exposed wrong LOL

a fractional reserve accusation on here is off-topic and going to be unprovable true or not.
so harping on that is really not fair guys.

So yeah i back him on this because it's what seems like the right thing to do.

@OP, i have nothing against you at all and i encourage you to do what ever to keep tabs on the Exchange.
This is actually a good idea people ..for ANY exchange !

I am just trying to throw my 2 cents in here unbiased.

ALSO i find it hard to believe that every single exchange does not operate the same way.
and the other guys comments are spot on too like what about BTC pools or keeping large amounts of coins on exchange sin the first place ?

consider this.. they would prob have to have a float set aside for withdrawals right and then stake what is saved.
other wise guys may not be able to get coins out AND they would have issues staking. with coin age being low with coins moving in an out constantly *automated
most coins need to be in your wallet for a min amount of time etc right ?
..this may explain why all of a sudden deposits are randomly frozen on various exchanges occasionally.
they may be stuck scrambling to move coins from their reserve they are staking on to a float for withdrawals..
and again this i not a Cryptsy issue but a global exchanges system one !

[Spoetnik]

It's the Dumbass PoS supporters/developers fault. PoS=Piece of Shit and rightly so.

This.

Oh, PoS so so good, yummy yummy in my tummy... people just don't want to decentralize... bitcoin is wasted on their puny minds...

These people are the ones voting for socialists to raise their pension. They just don't understand that quantity != value.

Let's just sit around doing nothing, surely that merits rewards...

can you tell that part i quoted and underlined to the HYP IPO'd coin guys harping it's so great  

[Spoetnik]

bittrex doesnt stake?

unless they stated pubclicly they do NOT i think it's safe bet they do in fact stake coins like any exchange would.

i have no problem with them doing it so long as i can get coins in and out of the exchange in a timely fashion.

and if they are caught sinking coins with 51% attacks then oh well they will get caught eventually maybe and ruin their rep.

[defier]

bittrex doesnt stake?

unless they stated pubclicly they do NOT i think it's safe bet they do in fact stake coins like any exchange would.

i have no problem with them doing it so long as i can get coins in and out of the exchange in a timely fashion.

and if they are caught sinking coins with 51% attacks then oh well they will get caught eventually maybe and ruin their rep.

Agreed, other than the possible massive conflict of interest.  IE: XST takes 3 days to mature.  It was #1 in volume for several days on trex.  Hard for coins to reach maturity, with all that volume flying about.  Maintenance would be a sure way to stabilize the wallet for a few days, and start staking.  "Hey don't mind us, we're just working on the wallet... for a few weeks."

The wallet has been locked down since that sdc rampage almost 3 weeks ago.  Coincidence?  I hope so, but wikilieaks has destroyed any trust I once gave people.  Anyone is capable of anything and then lying about it.  Especially those in charge.  Cryptsy has been known to ninja add coins for no apparent reason.  So there's obviously some kind of a back door there somewhere.  Could that that door be used to cause harm?  Only they know.

Even self admitted noobs claim this was a very easy wallet upgrade.   And the Stealth devs stepped up personally, to help those that needed extra attention.  Didn't take but a couple of hours and Mintpal 2 had a working XST wallet.  Nothing else worked, but they did have that.


Was Mintpal staking VERI, before the theft?  Is staking the reason they had 8 million of their customer's coins in an online wallet?  
Anything can happen.  From "good ole boy" business practices, to bad security, to a disgruntled employee.  

The takeaway?  Once sent to an exchange, "your coins are belong to them!"  They can do with them as they please.  As has happened many times already, You may never see them again.  Trading = Much Risk.  Not just selling low.

[worle1bm]

Kudos to Cryptsy for getting on here and handling the criticism, nicely done.

[MetaMorphius]

This is complete and udder bullshit that these exchanges risk other people's coin on online wallets and such to stake the coin to get free interests. They get enough in their transaction "fees".

[Bolomir]

BitJohn mullick and Spoetnik, you have prepared answers for everything, the problem is that your answers are matching only partially.
BitJohn is blaming a xst "bug" (which by the way is total BS) mullick partially admits that they should have followed the documentation in proper manner and Spoetnik says that BitJohn is "spot on".
The real facts are that no other exchange had this problem and if they had any, certainly it didn't take them weeks to fix it and the xst accounts were not frozen for so long.
Second you claim to know where the problem is for 2-3 days now...and still xst is frozen along with the wallets.
This looks more like you've been staking xst coins in your wallet and you linked users accounts to that wallet and all the mess is solely your own fault.
I have no problem with you staking that coins (I don't know how ethical is that) but at list stop blaming XST for this mess and take all the blame on yourself as you should from the beginning.
There is no need for me to prove my words. The prove is out there. No exchange has this huge problem with XST, but you, meaning that you are the only exchange that messed up things and there must be a reason for that known only by you.
Not even at this moment you are able to say when the wallets will be back. All you give is ambiguous answers.

[omegaflare]

Why are you shocked?

Of course they'll get free stake of millions of pos coins'.

Because most of idiots keep their coins at exchanges....

^^

QTF!

[efoxxi]

I still have this issue. Deposited on 11th October 2014. My ticket:
https://cryptsy.freshdesk.com/support/tickets/162246

My transaction in blockchain:
http://explorer.argakiig.us/tx/388a2082205407efbe53b9ec36a849dc5ce5a394a76d5a7a35e330172686baf0