Child Kidnappings by the Western-European States

[Nemo1024]

In Norway it's basically a taboo to speak of such affairs, on the grounds of "protecting the children". Parents are warned not to talk to the press or else...

An interesting article in Aftenposten from the 3rd November this year:
http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/iriks/Syv-private-aktorer-har-tjent-550-millioner-pa-barnevern-7769555.html

7 private actors have earned 550 million NOK on Barnevern, which is a privately owned organisation. Yes, it's big business.
In the facts box: During 2012 53198 kids were touched by Barnevern one way or another.

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[BitMos]

In Norway it's basically a taboo to speak of such affairs... Parents are warned not to talk to the press or else...

Void in the USA since December 15, 1791. It's called aggressive risk awareness - suppression. What could be a sad state of affairs for the kingdom of Norway, is a great institutional support ready to cope with the new paradigm, at least they will not have to hide such facts, it ain't an issue covered by the NDAA&co. Really "advanced" is the best term to describe such profoundly progressive society. Could you just please quote in $ or BTC, otherwise those sums you cited here will not have relevance soon... Those Nokies will have to accept the side they chose to support and what it means in concrete... curious too! The Arts at Works . It's a classical example of an elk jumping in a pool full of crocodiles (them being among the nicest of this pool), whose shores are covered with all the others predators of the Earth... it ain't about the North nor the Children dear elk... I still don't understand why it jumped, didn't he saw? let's see if until when it can swim, the fatness may help a while. Please dear elk don't freeze, it will not help. If you think that shark frenzy are wild, it' because you never saw the world of the saurians... poor elk. Why didn't you stay in bear country, they could have welcome you for a winter nap in their heated bear hut . Are you gonna plead ignorance, I advise all elks to look at the source of the picture once in a while before jumping in front of the traffic.


It ain't gonna be fair.

edit: the order book is getting wild for both rear legs, it's gonna be the hell of a fight, however I don't think the elk will play much role in the fleecing . Who's gonna role first  .

[MrsHappy]

What a cruel thing to do to a child - to take him away from family! For any child the happiest place to be is with his own mum and dad.
The actions of Norwegian social services are anti-human if not to say racist.

[MelodyRowell]

In Norway it's basically a taboo to speak of such affairs, on the grounds of "protecting the children". Parents are warned not to talk to the press or else...

This sounds like the government does not want the world community to find out about it's business and questioning it's CPS practices.

[bryant.coleman]

7 private actors have earned 550 million NOK on Barnevern, which is a privately owned organisation. Yes, it's big business.
In the facts box: During 2012 53,198 kids were touched by Barnevern one way or another.

Unbelievable... The total number of births in Norway for the year 2012 was just 60,255. Either there is something wrong with the Norwegian CPS, or there is something seriously wrong with the Norwegian parents.

[Apraksin]

7 private actors have earned 550 million NOK on Barnevern, which is a privately owned organisation. Yes, it's big business.
In the facts box: During 2012 53,198 kids were touched by Barnevern one way or another.

Unbelievable... The total number of births in Norway for the year 2012 was just 60,255. Either there is something wrong with the Norwegian CPS, or there is something seriously wrong with the Norwegian parents.

Again, OP is for some reason twisting all the information he gives to frame it in the worst possible light. The referenced number in the fact box is for children and adolescents, or put another way, includes everyone in Norway between 0-18 years old wich is about a million people, thus giving aproximately 5 % of this age-group who's been in contact with CPS the last year. Not a very extraordinary number.

Now, you are either all of you emotional idiots (exempting the OP who for some unexplicable reasons, my guess is a personal grudge, is blowing this issue out off all proportions. Really, the CPS in Norway is likely no worse or better than in comparable nations.) or you are all deliberately taking the bait just to go troll.

This is by far one of the strangest threads I've seen in Bitcointalk, and frankly, I'm fucking amazed it's still alive. There's ebola, isis and the looming economical crisis to fret about, and for some strange reason all you morons manage to go make a big issue out of the Norwegian CPS, wich again is highly likely no better or worse than the CPS in comparable nations.

If this whole thread wasn't so fucking stupid I'd laugh my ass of.

[Nemo1024]

I don't think that the child, or its parents are laughing now. Which is applicable to several thousand other children and families put into such position.

By the way, the bigger problems of the world start from such "small" ones as taking a child against all thinkable legal and moral rules.

I don't hold any grudge against CPS, as I already stated before. It's the unfairness of the situation that drives me here.

As for the fact box, I didn't twist anything, saying that its the number of children touched by CPS.

And the legal aspect: to adopt a child from Russia to a foreign family, you need to jump through a lot of legal hoops, designed to protect the child from potential abuse. What right has Norwegian CPS to take/kidnap a foreign national child from foreign national parents and adopt it away, bypassing everything thinkable?

Apraksin, do you have kids? How would you feel if, based on an arbitrary call from someone who has a grudge against you, your child is taken away and you never see it. I don't have kids yet, but I don't want to end up in such a situation.

And I am not blowing it out of proportion - I am just following a case as it evolves. It's not my fault that you cannot read about such cases in Norwegian press and that parents are told not to contact the media under the treat of never seeing their children again.

[TECSHARE]

7 private actors have earned 550 million NOK on Barnevern, which is a privately owned organisation. Yes, it's big business.
In the facts box: During 2012 53,198 kids were touched by Barnevern one way or another.

Unbelievable... The total number of births in Norway for the year 2012 was just 60,255. Either there is something wrong with the Norwegian CPS, or there is something seriously wrong with the Norwegian parents.

Again, OP is for some reason twisting all the information he gives to frame it in the worst possible light. The referenced number in the fact box is for children and adolescents, or put another way, includes everyone in Norway between 0-18 years old wich is about a million people, thus giving aproximately 5 % of this age-group who's been in contact with CPS the last year. Not a very extraordinary number.

Now, you are either all of you emotional idiots (exempting the OP who for some unexplicable reasons, my guess is a personal grudge, is blowing this issue out off all proportions. Really, the CPS in Norway is likely no worse or better than in comparable nations.) or you are all deliberately taking the bait just to go troll.

This is by far one of the strangest threads I've seen in Bitcointalk, and frankly, I'm fucking amazed it's still alive. There's ebola, isis and the looming economical crisis to fret about, and for some strange reason all you morons manage to go make a big issue out of the Norwegian CPS, wich again is highly likely no better or worse than the CPS in comparable nations.

If this whole thread wasn't so fucking stupid I'd laugh my ass of.

CPS agencies are known for being used as fronts for child sex traffickers internationally. It is a problem for all CPS agencies world wide, not just Norway.

[bryant.coleman]

I don't think that the child, or its parents are laughing now. Which is applicable to several thousand other children and families put into such position.

Apraskin won't be laughing either if his child is kidnapped by the CPS, to be sold to homosexual "foster parents". The gay lobby is behind the CPS child abductions in Norway. A large number of the abducted children are placed in gay foster homes.

[Apraksin]

I don't think that the child, or its parents are laughing now. Which is applicable to several thousand other children and families put into such position.

Apraskin won't be laughing either if his child is kidnapped by the CPS, to be sold to homosexual "foster parents". The gay lobby is behind the CPS child abductions in Norway. A large number of the abducted children are placed in gay foster homes.

WTF did I just read? Seriously, are you for real? Come on, the gay lobby that abducts children? I have neighbours a few blocks away here in my Norwegian town, a standard couple, male and female. He's a woodworker, she's a nurse. As a child she grew up with a mother that tied her to her bed with cables and administered daily beatings, also the mother starved her. Everybody knew what was going on but no one reported it to the CPS, talk about responsible adults hey? To this day she still wonders how no one took action and reported the abuse, cause god damn would she have preferd to have been "abducted" and raised by a couple of nice gays.

Because of her childhood she has a soft spot for abused children, so today she and her husband has adopted a foster child. This child was taken from it's heroin addict mother at the age of two, after living with daily abuse in a trash hellhole in Oslo with used syringes lying around on the floor. It was reported that shortly after birth the child showed severe abstinense from heroin withdrawal. The child today has mental issues and will probably never evolve real empathy for other animals and human beings. the health issues the child struggles with is to many to list here, and the child had to change school to a school for "special" children because the child simply could not understand how to interact with other children and showed signs of violence. I bet the child would prefer it immensely if the "Gay lobby" had snatched the child from it's mother at birth and placed it under the care of a couple of homosexuals.

This is the other side of the CPS, and stands as one of the reasons that the CPS won't allways talk about the individual cases. This may be hard to understand for some of you, but between kidnapping children for sex traficking or selling them to the gay lobby, the CPS actually tryes to help some kids who are in deep shit. Maybe that russian boy really is in need of protection, who are you or OP to say?



This thread just went retarded beyond description. I hereby solemnly swear I will never post in this thread again. Be well.

[BitMos]

As you will not read, I just can't stop from commenting, for those that will none the less follow the evolving situation very diligently that I strongly support Orphans adoption by the gay lobby (as it's called here), but I am more skeptical on the case he (as he will not read) presented. It revealed a classical lack of faith of most die hard statist supporters, they can't seem (unless "the take care by" was voluntary, and "parenting" seems more appropriate) to admit that the situation of this "toxic" child (they will be very common sooner as you may imagine, thx to the narratives holders, as a question I don't think that woman you describe ever had access to raw heroin, only trashed), can improve with time. His Mother can start to act as a Mother, and who knows he could heal. So in this sense I wouldn't support an adoption, because long term there is still hope for the kid. However in the case of Orphans it's very rare () that the dead come back to life, a caring couple seems very natural to me.

[TECSHARE]

words

words

words

I am not sure if I agree with the previous users implications of this some how being an issue caused by homosexuals. This seems a bit extreme and like he is simply looking for maximum shock value. I do know for a fact however that CPS agencies ALL OVER THE WORLD are used as fronts for child trafficking. Organized child trafficking networks aside, CPS organizations are paid BIG MONEY when they adopt out other peoples children. The children in most demand are those from HEALTHY HOMES who have not suffered a lot of abuse. Therefore it is in the CPS's best interest even operating "legitimately" to blow small events out of proportion to ensure ones own paycheck. Remember CPS (at least in the US) operates COMPLETELY OUTSIDE the court system, and has its own "family courts" which came about from the support of eugenicists groups and often included forced sterilizations. It is a simple task to simply pretend these things aren't an issue. Because it is so horrible everyone refuses to even look at it. Ignoring the problem will not make it go away.

[BitMos]

Because it is so horrible everyone refuses to even look at it.

A Mission tailor-made for USMIC, it's gonna be dark if some failures are found, including a nice spot on the beach, we need to maintain occupancy...

[blablahblah]

7 private actors have earned 550 million NOK on Barnevern, which is a privately owned organisation. Yes, it's big business.
In the facts box: During 2012 53,198 kids were touched by Barnevern one way or another.

Unbelievable... The total number of births in Norway for the year 2012 was just 60,255. Either there is something wrong with the Norwegian CPS, or there is something seriously wrong with the Norwegian parents.

Again, OP is for some reason twisting all the information he gives to frame it in the worst possible light. The referenced number in the fact box is for children and adolescents, or put another way, includes everyone in Norway between 0-18 years old wich is about a million people, thus giving aproximately 5 % of this age-group who's been in contact with CPS the last year. Not a very extraordinary number.

Now, you are either all of you emotional idiots (exempting the OP who for some unexplicable reasons, my guess is a personal grudge, is blowing this issue out off all proportions.

It's the Russian "information war" again.

Also, Norwegian oil maybe?

The whole story sounds like speculative nonsense. For all we know, the innocent Russian "family" may have been people-traffickers, the story somehow went public, but the authorities wanted to avoid embarrassment so they twisted it around and made up some shit to brainwash the public with in their "free" media.

That would be consistent with the stealthy way in which Russia tries to expand its influence and empire:

1) Have double-standards for the law inside and outside of their federation.
2) Criminals can expect harsh prison sentences, for crimes committed INSIDE Russia.
3) But as soon as they cross the border to Europe, it's somebody else's problem.
4) Russia takes it a step further and protects criminals by being extremely sceptical of any sense of law or justice on the outside. The normal practice in Europe seems to be to only imprison criminals with a local passport or some kind of residency rights, while the others get extradited back to their country of origin. This is very convenient for Russian criminals (and for Russia) because as long as they only commit crimes OUTSIDE of Russia, they never get punished.
5) Russia never pays for the costs that the other countries incur from the criminality.

This is by far one of the strangest threads I've seen in Bitcointalk, and frankly, I'm fucking amazed it's still alive. There's ebola, isis and the looming economical crisis to fret about, and for some strange reason all you morons manage to go make a big issue out of the Norwegian CPS, wich again is highly likely no better or worse than the CPS in comparable nations.

If this whole thread wasn't so fucking stupid I'd laugh my ass of.

Yup

[BitMos]

The loot was expanded first. If they believe to have invented anything, including mercilessness, they will be very disappointed by their knowledge... all bases covered and more.

1. not a surprise, when the putin is a criminal
2. normal
3. perfect (we know how to monetize better)
4. ahahaha... once the wall is crossed, and a crime is committed there is no way out in one piece... understand who can, or not. it doesn't change a damn thing. The safety of all Children is taken care with the utmost care.
5. they will, more than they ever imagined.

the Russian information war is lame because it's mostly fake and they are too afraid to critize the boss, showing the lack of Unity. Very good, depending on the side. the citadel will be hashed. All stones will become dust.

[dohoo]

Back to the little kids: how can they separate them from their homes just like that? Foreign kids can not talk their mother tongue to their parents? This is good for the kids? This is lawful and legal??  Something badly rotten in Norway. The world needs to hear about this

[Marianne Skanland]

… in the Indian case the childrens protection service has stated that it was not the fact that the children where sleeping with their parents, or that they where handfed, that led to the children being removed from the parents, but that the reasons for the removal is not to be disclosed. I honestly don't know what happened, and I don't rightly care.

But I happen to know. It is not at all secret, since the mother, Sagarika, has with every right made totally public everything about the case. The child protection services (CPS) certainly DID use such things as hand-feeding and sleeping-arrangements as serious arguments. The son has some neurological trouble, which the BUP (child and youth psychiatry unit) and the CPS certainly did not bother about helping the family with. They branded the mother with a totally false and unfounded psychiatric 'diagnosis' and held that the son's trouble was that he had 'an attachment disorder' caused by the mother. 'Attachment theory' is a favourite quack diagnosis with the CPS, because it is quite untestable. It stems from psychoanalyst John Bowlby and has, in spite of research being done on it, very weak research support, and such support as there seems to be, could equally well be due to other causes.

Stavanger CPS tried to force Sagarika to sign away every right to ever go to court - in India!
They finally had to let the children go back to India, to stay with their paternal uncle, but Sagarika has succeeded in getting them back, going to the Indian courts. The local CPS where she lives has fully supported her, she has been thoroughly tested and evaluated by Indian psychiatrists and psychologists, who concluded that she was completely normal in spite of all she had been put through in Norway. She is taking the very best care of both her children, both with their daily care, finding special resources for the son and a special school for him, and her family fortunately understand completely all about the case and that Sagarika is blameless.

Articles relating to this India/Stavanger case:
Lots in Norwegian, but also lots of links to articles in English:
Indiske barn konfiskert - http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewtopic.php?f=314&t=6808

A very competent group of lawyers, politicians and social scientists in India has worked very thoroughly on this case and others. They have come up with several reports and a petition to the Indian Human Rights Commission.

The Confiscation of the Bhattacharya Children by Norwegian Authorities - A Case Study
http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewtopic.php?p=34177#p34177
http://r-b-v.net/dokument/case-study-final.pdf

We should note a sentence on p 30: "The Bhattacharya care proceedings make for sickening reading".

Humanitarian Crisis for Indian children and their families in confiscatory child care proceedings abroad
http://dokument.r-b-v.net/india/nhrc-petition-121012.pdf

Press announcement:
Save Indian Children From Confiscatory Proceedings Abroad
http://dokument.r-b-v.net/india/press-release.pdf

Suranya Aiyar - At press conference held on 12 October 2012 at the Women's Press Club
http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewtopic.php?p=32769#p32769

Materials Filed with Petition to NHRC
http://dokument.r-b-v.net/india/supporting-materials-with-petition-121012.pdf

Lots of articles here, some of them relating to the Bhattacharya case:
http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewforum.php?f=56

You might like to look at an article I wrote myself when the case was running. It was published by the newspaper The Hindu in Chennai:
The iron hand that rocks the cradle
http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/the-iron-hand-that-rocks-the-cradle/article2842917.ece

*

Good luck to readers, Nemo and others. Even if Apraksin does not care, it is well worth caring and reading and finding documentation. The CPS is a menace and our Norwegian authorities lie endlessly about the "welfare" they carry out.

Marianne Haslev Skånland, Oslo

[Nemo1024]

...
Good luck to readers, Nemo and others. Even if Apraksin does not care, it is well worth caring and reading and finding documentation. The CPS is a menace and our Norwegian authorities lie endlessly about the "welfare" they carry out.

Marianne Haslev Skånland, Oslo

Thank you, Marianne, for not being indifferent, and for providing more information about the Indian case.

...
It is a simple task to simply pretend these things aren't an issue. Because it is so horrible everyone refuses to even look at it. Ignoring the problem will not make it go away.

TECSHARE, you have pretty much summed up the reason why I started this topic. There maybe other big problems in the world, but at the root of them all lies indifference and apathy.

I haven't seen any new updates on the case of the 5-year-old kid after mid-november, but I'll be on the lookout. It might happen that the case will be resolved quietly, without the public learning of the outcome...

[Marianne Skanland]

May I bring in another few links (many of them immodestly, since they are links to my own writings), as well as an important point that has not been mentioned yet.

The links, illustrating that this is quite a serious and entrenched problem:

Christopher Booker:
Indians join Slovaks in protesting against UK child snatchers
27 October 2012
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/9637487/Indians-join-Slovaks-in-protesting-against-UK-child-snatchers.html

Booker is a senior journalist/writer for The Telegraph, and has written extensively on the CPS atrocities taking place in Britain. You will find more articles of his on this question by googling his name plus some such words as "child snatching"; also, I have listed several of his articles here (where admittedly I have dealt rather harshly with him):

British press discovers the child 'protection' racket?
22 April 2012
http://www.mhskanland.net/page10/page130/page130.html


Just now:

Jan Simonsen:
Child protection case damages Norway's reputation in the Czech republic
28 November 2014
http://www.mhskanland.net/page10/page226/page226.html

Marianne Haslev Skånland:
Norwegian CPS action against Russian families - what is the truth?
26 November 2014
http://www.mhskanland.net/page10/page224/page224.html

– Russia is alarmed at Norwegian child protection (CPS)
15 November 2014
http://www.mhskanland.net/page10/page220/page220.html

**

The argument I think highly relevant is this:

The right of children to be with their own parents is as much the children's right as the parents' right. We hear almost exclusively from the parents of the injured and destroyed families, because they have a voice, while the children are mostly unable to stand up and be heard. But that does not mean that they do not suffer. Here is what Polish film-maker Roman Polanski had to say about life during the war, when he was a child:

"The strength that helped [my father] to survive is that he wanted to see me. He knew he had a child outside. …. I was a kid and I wanted to live; I wanted to see my parents. Among all possible type of suffering the greatest was the separation from the parents. I think for the child this is the saddest and most tragic – I would say – thing. Lack of comfort, hunger, whatever – it's absolutely secondary. But longing to see my father walking in the snow towards me, that was the real sad thing. Wanting to see my mother, who was taken the first."

The quotation is from the extra material on the dvd of "The Pianist":
http://www.mhskanland.net/page120/page187/page187.html

Article 8 in the European Convention of Human Rights is about the right to respect for one's private and family life. It makes clear that the right to enjoy one's family life is a MUTUAL right for parents and children. On this score the ECHR is quite a bit better than the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child, which to a greater extent talks of the child and his/her rights in isolation, and in downright opposition to the rights of parents.

The right to be together of course is overridden when the parents abuse the child or hinder it getting food, education, companionship of other children, and so on. But basically: The feelings of love that parents have for their children is not in opposition to the rights of the children, they are the same: the right to be together. Perhaps somebody might find something useful here?:

Is biological kinship irrelevant for the life of human beings?
11 March 2012
http://www.mhskanland.net/page62/page123/page123.html

Anyway, the mutual right to be together, considered in addition to the sufferings of a child (who is even more helpless) taken from its parents without compelling, protective reason, means that we should not in such cases ask so much: "Does this parent deserve to keep his/her child?", we should ask: "Does this child deserve to be deprived of its parent(s)?" All parents are imperfect, but they are the only parents that child has, and the love a child has for its parents springs from the most valuable sides of nature.

Marianne Haslev Skånland, Oslo

[Nemo1024]

May I bring in another few links (many of them immodestly, since they are links to my own writings), as well as an important point that has not been mentioned yet.

The links, illustrating that this is quite a serious and entrenched problem:

Christopher Booker:
Indians join Slovaks in protesting against UK child snatchers
27 October 2012
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/9637487/Indians-join-Slovaks-in-protesting-against-UK-child-snatchers.html

Booker is a senior journalist/writer for The Telegraph, and has written extensively on the CPS atrocities taking place in Britain. You will find more articles of his on this question by googling his name plus some such words as "child snatching"; also, I have listed several of his articles here (where admittedly I have dealt rather harshly with him):

British press discovers the child 'protection' racket?
22 April 2012
http://www.mhskanland.net/page10/page130/page130.html


Just now:

Jan Simonsen:
Child protection case damages Norway's reputation in the Czech republic
28 November 2014
http://www.mhskanland.net/page10/page226/page226.html

Marianne Haslev Skånland:
Norwegian CPS action against Russian families - what is the truth?
26 November 2014
http://www.mhskanland.net/page10/page224/page224.html

– Russia is alarmed at Norwegian child protection (CPS)
15 November 2014
http://www.mhskanland.net/page10/page220/page220.html

**

The argument I think highly relevant is this:

The right of children to be with their own parents is a much the children's right as the parents' right. We hear almost exclusively from the parents of the injured and destroyed families, because they have a voice, while the children are mostly unable to stand up and be heard. But that does not mean that they do not suffer. Here is what Polish film-maker Roman Polanski had to say about life during the war, when he was a child:

"The strength that helped [my father] to survive is that he wanted to see me. He knew he had a child outside. …. I was a kid and I wanted to live; I wanted to see my parents. Among all possible type of suffering the greatest was the separation from the parents. I think for the child this is the saddest and most tragic – I would say – thing. Lack of comfort, hunger, whatever – it's absolutely secondary. But longing to see my father walking in the snow towards me, that was the real sad thing. Wanting to see my mother, who was taken the first."

The quotation is from the extra material on the dvd of "The Pianist":
http://www.mhskanland.net/page120/page187/page187.html

Article 8 in the European Convention of Human Rights is about the right to respect for one's private and family life. It makes clear that the right to enjoy one's family life is a MUTUAL right for parents and children. On this score the ECHR is quite a bit better than the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child, which to a greater extent talks of the child and his/her rights in isolation, and in downright opposition to the rights of parents.

The right to be together of course is overridden when the parents abuse the child or hinder it getting food, education, companionship of other children, and so on. But basically: The feelings of love that parents have for their children is not in opposition to the rights of the children, they are the same: the right to be together. Perhaps somebody might find something useful here?:

Is biological kinship irrelevant for the life of human beings?
11 March 2012
http://www.mhskanland.net/page62/page123/page123.html

Anyway, the mutual right to be together, considered in addition to the sufferings of a child (who is even more helpless) taken from its parents without compelling, protective reason, means that we should not in such cases ask so much: "Does this parent deserve to keep his/her child?", we should ask: "Does this child deserve to be deprived of its parent(s)?" All parents are imperfect, but they are the only parents that child has, and the love a child has for its parents springs from the most valuable sides of nature.

Marianne Haslev Skånland, Oslo

Thank you very much, Marianne. Of course your links and you thoughts are most welcome. They paint and even more complete and scary picture. So now a family from Czechia has been touched as well...