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Author Topic: Limited hashing power to eliminate industrial mining.  (Read 3421 times)
cp1
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October 24, 2014, 04:17:16 AM
 #21

Then keep changing the algorithm... every few weeks or so, it would force everything to be CPU and then everybody could have a fair chance again.

How is changing the algorithm after someone purchases an ASIC fair?  Just because you don't make any money mining doesn't mean nobody should.

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October 24, 2014, 05:23:47 AM
 #22

Better idea, drop the idea of mining. Its just not the way to make money folks.

Now that's a great idea! Eliminate all verification and security from the blockchain. Anybody can create any transaction they want, and they'll all be included in the new "fair" blockchain.

Buy & Hold
seriouscoin
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October 25, 2014, 09:00:46 AM
 #23

I find its not fair that some guys can never fuck hot girls .... Roll Eyes

so lets make a law that limit how many times a girl can fuck a guy... hence girls will have to fuck many guys if they want active sex lives....

What do you think?
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October 25, 2014, 09:20:54 AM
 #24

The Core Devs could release a Bitcoin Core that utilised CPU only cryptography ... it would put Bitcoin mining back into the hands of the little guy.

That will never happen, and even if it did, it still wouldn't fix anything. Rather than warehouses full of ASIC miners, you would see warehouses full of CPU miners.

But at least the CPUs are useful after the difficulty gets to high.  With ASICs... what can you do with them when their profitable life has expired?
FPGAs were a nice middle-ground and some of them had vanitygen patches for them, so at least they could operate in a vanitygen pool after they'd otherwise turn into a paperweight (I think vanitygen pools are dead, now, but unsure). They could do other things with the right scripts, but their time was very short-lived in mining so've gone right back to obscurity.

The only way to really stop ASICs at this point, I'd think, is to create a meta-algorithm coin which mandates different ASIC-resistant algorithms for mining be used for each successive block where difficulty is reset each block. -So maybe it's Groestl, Scrypt, Scrypt-N, etc, etc, etc, and then it repeats. Software exists which switches kernels on the fly for multi-coin mining in multi-pools where the pool can actually issue the command to switch kernels for a new coin. It may also be possible to get away with a CPU coin this way and allow it to scale without ASIC farms coming in. ASIC farms would have to be constantly switching pools and polling all of them (which a pool could disallow) to see if they should switch back to the algo-switching pool. I don't think it's unlikely to ever show up in a future coin, but it's definitely not something coming to Bitcoin.
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October 27, 2014, 05:38:26 PM
 #25

You can just declare a coin is GPU/CPU one. Whenever it is threatened by ASIC, change the algorithm.
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October 27, 2014, 06:16:50 PM
 #26

You can just declare a coin is GPU/CPU one. Whenever it is threatened by ASIC, change the algorithm.

Can you change the algorithm in a decentralized way, or do you have to have a person that is in charge of the currency?

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October 28, 2014, 08:25:59 AM
 #27

You can just declare a coin is GPU/CPU one. Whenever it is threatened by ASIC, change the algorithm.

Can you change the algorithm in a decentralized way, or do you have to have a person that is in charge of the currency?

The declaration can be made when the coin is created. The change can be made by dev after community discussion.
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October 28, 2014, 10:54:51 AM
 #28

You can just declare a coin is GPU/CPU one. Whenever it is threatened by ASIC, change the algorithm.
Can you change the algorithm in a decentralized way, or do you have to have a person that is in charge of the currency?

The declaration can be made when the coin is created. The change can be made by dev after community discussion.

Having a person in charge is not feasible. If the community consists of hundreds of millions of people, how do they have a discussion? How are the dev's actions mandated and controlled by the community? How does the community elect a new dev if the current dev quits?

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October 28, 2014, 12:58:35 PM
 #29

The Core Devs could release a Bitcoin Core that utilised CPU only cryptography ... it would put Bitcoin mining back into the hands of the little guy.

That will never happen, and even if it did, it still wouldn't fix anything. Rather than warehouses full of ASIC miners, you would see warehouses full of CPU miners.

Exactly.
No it would be a virus game, there would be so many people trying to infect as many computers as possible because they all have a cpu and hogging 60% of it might not make them notice.














 

 

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boy2k
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October 28, 2014, 03:44:53 PM
 #30

If you make mining to tricky by constantly switching things to suit individuals then the whole currency would be worthless...
No one would bother mining them so no transactions could be processed...
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October 28, 2014, 11:45:02 PM
 #31

I dont think its good idea to limit hashing power, its easily abused and difficulty would drop a lot..
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October 29, 2014, 10:26:34 PM
 #32

That will never happen, and even if it did, it still wouldn't fix anything. Rather than warehouses full of ASIC miners, you would see warehouses full of CPU miners.
[/quote]


True, where do we draw the line, what's allowed / not allowed.


Slide rule mining made me chuckle  Grin
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October 30, 2014, 03:37:19 AM
 #33

Why not make bitcoin multi-algo like myriad coin, then everyone will have a chance for the share..

cp1
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October 30, 2014, 03:57:31 AM
 #34

Everyone does have a chance for a share.

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October 30, 2014, 03:17:17 PM
 #35

Minning cap at say 5th/s per ip adress?
Up or down of the cap depending on difficulty?
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October 30, 2014, 03:19:49 PM
 #36

Minning cap at say 5th/s per ip adress?
Up or down of the cap depending on difficulty?

That is not possible.

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October 30, 2014, 03:37:59 PM
 #37

then we have to wait for the halving on january 2016 to see some farms closing, or maybe in 2020...who knows!!!
if the price stays at 300 to 400usd some big players will shut down for sure
we may see a negative difficulty too
....
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November 01, 2014, 02:54:48 AM
 #38

I agree with


Everyone has an equal opportunity to mine bitcoins. There is nothing and nobody stopping you. The amount of bitcoins you mine is proportional to the amount of money and effort you put into it, whether you are a poor person with a graphics card or a person with a warehouse full of miners.

and

I find its not fair that some guys can never fuck hot girls .... Roll Eyes

so lets make a law that limit how many times a girl can fuck a guy... hence girls will have to fuck many guys if they want active sex lives....



First off, life is always unfair, as shown by the second quote.

Second off, everyone has equal chance.  Mining is perfectly linear.  If you use 1 terahash at home (I have 4 S3's, perfectly reasonable home setup, plus a bit to give me just over 2 tera) you make 0.0139 BTC/24 hours.  You don't pay extra rent for your miner, since it lives at home, and you pay for electricity.  You'll be buying miners at resellers cost.

Bump it up, you now have 10 tera.  Still doable at home, you may be pushing it.  If you're lucky you can find some group buys to get a good deal on miners. 0.139 BTC/24 hours.

100 tera.  If you're doing this at home, you better install some more electric panels.  There's going to be some renovation costs, maybe you'll make room in the basement or garage.  Regardless, rent can still be free, but for how much electricity you're pulling you may pay more for residential rates unless you can work out a deal.  Buying this many miners, you can start buying direct from manufacturer, and get a good bulk deal. Solo mining also becomes viable at this scale. 1.39 BTC/24 hours

1000 tera (1 peta).  No way can you fit this farm at home, you better rent out a place.  Not quite at the scale required to build a factory... You could rent space in a data center.  That will now give you a big rent cost, as well as electricity cost, as well as the time spent to maintain it all.  At this scale, you could probably make your own warehouse, but then you have the big up front initial costs to get things going. You'll probably need to start pulling in investors. Here, you can make deals with manufacturers to buy miners in bulk.  Or, if you really want, you can look into buying chips and making your own miners. ~14 BTC/24 hours.

10 peta.  This is where you need to build your own farm.  You're going to need a large initial investment, to create a space to hold all your miners.  You start getting a few economies of scale, but you also have extra costs.  You have your rent to pay, you have electricity (can probably get industrial rates, so it may be a bit cheaper), you have cooling, perhaps even security to watch this place.  At least, at this scale, you can buy miners in huge bulk, and getting chips to make your own miners is a very viable option. ~140 btc/24 hours

100 peta (ignoring the fact this is ~1/3 of total network....) You better have a giant factory dedicated to mining.  Perhaps even a few around the world.  Build them in cold climates, beside power plants.  You can buy your electricity straight from the source, probably down at ~$0.03/kwh.  Cooling will be huge, rent won't be an issue since these are probably factories you own.  Security would be a huge factor here, if not live guards, you'd need some cameras and motion detectors.  No manufacturer can keep up with your demand, you better buy your own chips and make your own miners.  If you have this much money, you could even start designing your own chips. You'll be making over a thousand bitcoins every day.

Which of these scales is "best"?  Who knows.  Each one has it's own pros and cons.  I'm happy with my home setup.  The only thing that matters when buying miners is the dollars/gigahash price, as well as the watts/gigahash for longevity.
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November 01, 2014, 12:45:48 PM
 #39

(greedy companies wanting to make a buck)

As opposed to greedy individuals wanting to make a buck!?!?!

sorry folks, just because someone else has more resources than me and/or is willing to take a bigger risk by investing in more mining power than I doesn't mean that it's unfair.

Changing the protocol so that it break ASIC mining or has folks forever chasing a changing mechanism would hurt individual miners like me more than a big company because I don't have the resources to keep replacing my miners every few months where a big company probably could

The only way you could ever completely remove the incentive for people to invest heavily in bitcoin mining and become big would be to remove all of the value from mining

that would certainly shut down those greedy companies wanting to make a buck real fast

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November 02, 2014, 05:51:55 AM
 #40

There is no way, not now not with current tech than you can enforce people to limit hashpower. While your idea is right and I really like it and I wish it to happen there is no way for it to work, sadly.


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