Does Bitcoin have the potential to evade capital controls?

[Spendulus]

This assume the person on the other end wants a fucking bitcoin.

Yeah, it does assume the person on the other end wants to be free. If they want to be a wage slave, they are obviously going to have to deal with capital controls.

Freedom isn't easy and it isn't going to get any easier. You seem to want the "final" solution now. Well... it doesn't exist. We can only hope to work towards it.

Except it doesn't quite work that way.  What happens is that a substitute currency infiltrates a country at the person to person level.  Historically IIRC these events are 10-70ish years in the making.  The substitute comes gradually to be accepted and used because it was needed.  It was needed because of the debasing of the country's fiat currency by those in power.

The substitute is always fought by those who ruined the primary currency, but eventually they need it too.

The substitute comes into play because it is necessary expedient in commercial transactions, often having a pricing advantage. 

So....right now there are people on the other end who "wants a fucking bitcoin."  This user base is expanding.  It may be expected that being an Internet phenomenon it's expansion may be more like that of Facebook or Ebay than traditional substitute currency models.  But the expansion is obviously limited by the (rising) number of people and companies that want to trade with the currency.

I'm less interested in Bitcoin's ability to protect me from inflation (I can use more traditional methods for that) and more interested in Bitcoin's ability to allow me to retain complete control of my asset. I could care less if Bitcoin ever becomes a "primary currency" or not.

Yeah, I agree with that.  Facebook, an online social media, did not take the place of bars, clubs, church meetings and other traditional real world social meetups.  Similarly, an on line currency should not destroy fiat currencies.  It may impact fiat currency INSTITUTIONS, but not the currency itself.

However, "capital controls" means more than inflation.  It may mean that you, say in the US, are not allowed to own South African Rands or Euros, or perhaps you are not allowed more than a certain amount.  It may mean that you cannot move more than $500 per day from a checking account, or that your accounts having more than $100,000 have the unnecessary excess above that amount removed for the public good....

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

This assume the person on the other end wants a fucking bitcoin.

Yeah, it does assume the person on the other end wants to be free. If they want to be a wage slave, they are obviously going to have to deal with capital controls.

Freedom isn't easy and it isn't going to get any easier. You seem to want the "final" solution now. Well... it doesn't exist. We can only hope to work towards it.

Except it doesn't quite work that way.  What happens is that a substitute currency infiltrates a country at the person to person level.  Historically IIRC these events are 10-70ish years in the making.  The substitute comes gradually to be accepted and used because it was needed.  It was needed because of the debasing of the country's fiat currency by those in power.

The substitute is always fought by those who ruined the primary currency, but eventually they need it too.

The substitute comes into play because it is necessary expedient in commercial transactions, often having a pricing advantage.  

So....right now there are people on the other end who "wants a fucking bitcoin."  This user base is expanding.  It may be expected that being an Internet phenomenon it's expansion may be more like that of Facebook or Ebay than traditional substitute currency models.  But the expansion is obviously limited by the (rising) number of people and companies that want to trade with the currency.

I'm less interested in Bitcoin's ability to protect me from inflation (I can use more traditional methods for that) and more interested in Bitcoin's ability to allow me to retain complete control of my asset. I could care less if Bitcoin ever becomes a "primary currency" or not.

+1

[deluxeCITY]

This assume the person on the other end wants a fucking bitcoin.

Yeah, it does assume the person on the other end wants to be free. If they want to be a wage slave, they are obviously going to have to deal with capital controls.

Freedom isn't easy and it isn't going to get any easier. You seem to want the "final" solution now. Well... it doesn't exist. We can only hope to work towards it.

Except it doesn't quite work that way.  What happens is that a substitute currency infiltrates a country at the person to person level.  Historically IIRC these events are 10-70ish years in the making.  The substitute comes gradually to be accepted and used because it was needed.  It was needed because of the debasing of the country's fiat currency by those in power.

The substitute is always fought by those who ruined the primary currency, but eventually they need it too.

The substitute comes into play because it is necessary expedient in commercial transactions, often having a pricing advantage. 

So....right now there are people on the other end who "wants a fucking bitcoin."  This user base is expanding.  It may be expected that being an Internet phenomenon it's expansion may be more like that of Facebook or Ebay than traditional substitute currency models.  But the expansion is obviously limited by the (rising) number of people and companies that want to trade with the currency.

I'm less interested in Bitcoin's ability to protect me from inflation (I can use more traditional methods for that) and more interested in Bitcoin's ability to allow me to retain complete control of my asset. I could care less if Bitcoin ever becomes a "primary currency" or not.

Well if bitcoin cannot protect you from inflation (and you purchasing power of your bitcoin declines substantially) then the fact that you have control over your asset becomes a moot point.

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

This assume the person on the other end wants a fucking bitcoin.

Yeah, it does assume the person on the other end wants to be free. If they want to be a wage slave, they are obviously going to have to deal with capital controls.

Freedom isn't easy and it isn't going to get any easier. You seem to want the "final" solution now. Well... it doesn't exist. We can only hope to work towards it.

Except it doesn't quite work that way.  What happens is that a substitute currency infiltrates a country at the person to person level.  Historically IIRC these events are 10-70ish years in the making.  The substitute comes gradually to be accepted and used because it was needed.  It was needed because of the debasing of the country's fiat currency by those in power.

The substitute is always fought by those who ruined the primary currency, but eventually they need it too.

The substitute comes into play because it is necessary expedient in commercial transactions, often having a pricing advantage.  

So....right now there are people on the other end who "wants a fucking bitcoin."  This user base is expanding.  It may be expected that being an Internet phenomenon it's expansion may be more like that of Facebook or Ebay than traditional substitute currency models.  But the expansion is obviously limited by the (rising) number of people and companies that want to trade with the currency.

I'm less interested in Bitcoin's ability to protect me from inflation (I can use more traditional methods for that) and more interested in Bitcoin's ability to allow me to retain complete control of my asset. I could care less if Bitcoin ever becomes a "primary currency" or not.

Well if bitcoin cannot protect you from inflation (and you purchasing power of your bitcoin declines substantially) then the fact that you have control over your asset becomes a moot point.

That's a fair point, but it's a different point.

[deepestfear]

In theory yes, in practice you need to protect yourself against government packet filtering digital signature of your btc transactions to protect yourself

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

Bumped. In light of recent events. Totally legit bump!

http://unenumerated.blogspot.ca/2015/07/the-greek-financial-mess-and-some-ways.html

[Beliathon]

Does Bitcoin have the potential to evade capital controls?

If the following link works, the answer is yes: http://www.thepiratebay.org/

[Spendulus]

Does Bitcoin have the potential to evade capital controls?

If the following link works, the answer is yes: http://www.thepiratebay.org/

Most, if not all, of the arguments presented against bitcoin "evading capital controls" really address the liquidity of bitcoin, not it's ability to evade capital controls.

Liquidity may be viewed as conversion to desired currency within an hour, a day, a month or a year.  

Is bitcoin as liquid as precious metals, paintings, houses, currency?

What of these "evade capital controls?"

How about Internet based assets?

Bank accounts, stocks, etc?  The capital controls on these are based on the physical location of the entity acting as custodian.

The third party intermediary.

Cut him out.

A bit more.  Here's a real simple example of "capital controls."

Country X has an "official exchange rate" of 5 money-units for 1 USD.  But the street price everywhere is 8 money units for 1 USD.  And everyone uses the street price.  But merchants doing business with MC/VISA are forced to exchange at the official rates.

What rate does BTC transfer at?  You figure it.