[Payout Updates] Bitcoinica site is taken offline for security investigation

[BadBear]

Wheres my money!!! I sent you all my bitcoinica emails, all my mtgox codes (Only method used to fund account), I filed a claim and haven received ANY emails back. I talked to phantomcircuit in IRC and he told me that my account was small and i should wait an additional 3-4 days. That was two weeks ago. Not getting paid is one thing, not getting a SINGLE REPLY from my emails is another. WTF is taking so long! I want my M*therF*cking MONEY!

Last week was before another ~$350,000 was stolen.  I suspect that everyone will now be waiting more than a few additional days for the processing of claims to resume.

I am afraid they will completely stop the payouts because of this: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=93109.0

They probably will. I can't imagine anyone with any sense would touch the money that's left with all that's going on, at least until the lawyers get through with discovery and work something out.

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[Vod]

they will completely stop the payouts because of this: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=93109.0

More gross negligence then.  They can't use customer deposits to pay for legal defense, so what is their excuse for not paying refunds?  Childish revenge?

[lonelyminer (Peter Šurda)]

More gross negligence then.  They can't use customer deposits to pay for legal defense, ...

This is a very interesting point and I'll surely bring it to the attention of others. This did not occur to me. Thank you for bringing this up.

... so what is their excuse for not paying refunds?  Childish revenge?

I don't know and it's becoming less and less likely that anyone will even care. I was trying to stay out of it, in fact I said that there can be a reasonable explanation why the communication appears to be weird and the payouts are slow: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=81045.msg903915#msg903915

Then I wrote Genjix that I highly recommend they hire professionals because people are unhappy and it might not end up well. That was last Thursday. The next day, poof!, another hack. I am a patient man, but my patience is not infinite. Surely there are plenty of others who are much less patient than me.

[disclaimer201]

Well, well, well. Say I had this customer's account full of money but no money myself, and I knew more than a couple big fish are going to sue me. Or maybe just this one guy with over 20k Bitcoins lost that gave me a one day ultimatum to repay him before he starts legal actions. I might be tempted to leave my MtGox account unlocked for just one more "hacker" attack. Pure self-defense and desperation. People will blame it on genjix for leaking the source code. He's being set up I guess, and the only one near Patrick, Donald, Tihan, and Weldon who I think is innocent here.

[jgarzik]

they will completely stop the payouts because of this: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=93109.0

More gross negligence then.  They can't use customer deposits to pay for legal defense, so what is their excuse for not paying refunds?  Childish revenge?

It is irrelevant whether or not the funds would be used for legal defense (one presumes they would not).

If lawsuits are threatened, as another mentioned, most lawyers would advise stopping refunds until all legal challenges are completed and the court settles refund amounts and claimants.  Bitcoinica would not want to refund, and then have a court show they should not have refunded X amount to Y person.

So, good show, chaps.  You have now delayed your refunds for at least another year or two.

[dopamine]

Well we can officially say bitcoincia is dead. They have no plans on reopening up, who would ever deposit anything with them when they can't even refund customer funds or even give a update on what they are gonna do with the remaining 70% funds.

[aq]

they will completely stop the payouts because of this: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=93109.0

More gross negligence then.  They can't use customer deposits to pay for legal defense, so what is their excuse for not paying refunds?  Childish revenge?

It is irrelevant whether or not the funds would be used for legal defense (one presumes they would not).

If lawsuits are threatened, as another mentioned, most lawyers would advise stopping refunds until all legal challenges are completed and the court settles refund amounts and claimants.  Bitcoinica would not want to refund, and then have a court show they should not have refunded X amount to Y person.

So, good show, chaps.  You have now delayed your refunds for at least another year or two.

~35% of claimants are marked accurate
~86% of total funds are marked accurate
~25% of total funds have been repaid

So apparently 10 days ago around 25% have already been repaid. It would have been great if those lawsuit hungry people could have waited until all those remaining 70% (after the hack) have been repaid. And if lawsuits are really your thing, sue after that.

[lonelyminer (Peter Šurda)]

If lawsuits are threatened, as another mentioned, most lawyers would advise stopping refunds until all legal challenges are completed and the court settles refund amounts and claimants.  Bitcoinica would not want to refund, and then have a court show they should not have refunded X amount to Y person.

Jeff, we did not start it. Amir wrote that he's already being sued before BadBitcoin announced anything, and that he does not know what will happen next. This post has been deleted in the meantime, but it is being quoted here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=93074.msg1027601#msg1027601

Tihan wrote that they are considering legal action against Amir, Patrick and Norman here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=93074.msg1028157#msg1028157

So what's the most rational choice for the depositors, just sit and wait until more money mysteriously vanishes and maybe people end up in jail? What good does that for us getting our money back, ever? Hahaha, I still have no money, but now someone is in jail and I need to pay, through taxes, for his lodgings and food? Does that make any sense to you? At least when litigation is threatened or in place, we can get the funds frozen (e.g. by Mt. Gox) until someone refunds us.

So, good show, chaps.  You have now delayed your refunds for at least another year or two.

It was not us who delayed it, in fact I defended the delays before here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=81045.msg903915#msg903915. I'm not going to point fingers at who caused it, as I don't have sufficient information and don't want to falsely accuse anyone and I don't actually care. But it wasn't us. And I don't need to know who caused it, I just want my money back.

[kiba]

They need to stop suing each other and get to the business of refunding the customer. I don't care how much these guys hate each other.

[thest0ckman]

safe to assume payouts have stopped? if anyone got paid over the weekend or after the date of this post please let us know.

[elux]

Amir wrote that he's already being sued before BadBitcoin announced anything, and that he does not know what will happen next.
This post has been deleted in the meantime, but it is being quoted here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=93074.msg1027601#msg1027601

I have physical health problems and need to see a doctor, but haven't had the time. On the forums I'm called a scammer and repeatedly insulted. Someone is trying to sue us. My bank gave me crap and held my money. I was borrowing cash from friends and spent 3 days eating bad muesli and cheap milk. I lost a lot of code by accident. I put a lot of work into the bitcoin.org clients page to make everything fairer, and now it will be removed, helping to recentralise bitcoin again. Electrum maybe has a security flaw and Macs have random problems. The conference needs the CFP announced soon, but I have to deal with Bitcoinica first. My health is suffering and im getting headaches. Right now is the first time I'm feeling depression, and I'm a little worried because I've never had it before but my father did. I emailed a health professional and they advised me to seek help. I've started sleeping very long, being very lethargic and apathetic. When the Bitcoinica thing first happened, I was considering suicide until Tihan said he had the funds.

Ok, that's a bit scary. Someone needs to get in touch with genjix, make sure he's physically ok.

It's a bad situation, but certainly not one worth ending yourself over. This too shall pass.

[proudhon]

Amir wrote that he's already being sued before BadBitcoin announced anything, and that he does not know what will happen next.
This post has been deleted in the meantime, but it is being quoted here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=93074.msg1027601#msg1027601

I have physical health problems and need to see a doctor, but haven't had the time. On the forums I'm called a scammer and repeatedly insulted. Someone is trying to sue us. My bank gave me crap and held my money. I was borrowing cash from friends and spent 3 days eating bad muesli and cheap milk. I lost a lot of code by accident. I put a lot of work into the bitcoin.org clients page to make everything fairer, and now it will be removed, helping to recentralise bitcoin again. Electrum maybe has a security flaw and Macs have random problems. The conference needs the CFP announced soon, but I have to deal with Bitcoinica first. My health is suffering and im getting headaches. Right now is the first time I'm feeling depression, and I'm a little worried because I've never had it before but my father did. I emailed a health professional and they advised me to seek help. I've started sleeping very long, being very lethargic and apathetic. When the Bitcoinica thing first happened, I was considering suicide until Tihan said he had the funds.

Ok, that's a bit scary. Someone needs to get in touch with genjix, make sure he's physically ok.

It's a bad situation, but certainly not one worth ending yourself over. This too shall pass.

Yeah, that concerns me, and it's a big part of the reason I think the witch-hunt mentality ought to be dialed back.  Maybe it's all a scam, maybe Amir is playing us all, but there's just no way to know right now, and the possibility that somebody is that seriously ill over all this is enough of a reason to be careful.  This whole situation is horrible, but it's not worth somebody's life.

[Vod]

This whole situation is horrible, but it's not worth somebody's life.

You and I have differing opinions.  Several hundred thousand dollars is certainly worth more than a person's life.  

[rjk]

This whole situation is horrible, but it's not worth somebody's life.

You and I have differing opinions.  Several hundred thousand dollars is certainly worth more than a person's life. 

Murderous fucktard alert

[Vod]

This whole situation is horrible, but it's not worth somebody's life.

You and I have differing opinions.  Several hundred thousand dollars is certainly worth more than a person's life. 

Murderous fucktard alert

lol

[rjk]

This whole situation is horrible, but it's not worth somebody's life.

You and I have differing opinions.  Several hundred thousand dollars is certainly worth more than a person's life. 

Murderous fucktard alert

lol

BTW, the US government actually has hard numbers that they assign to the value of a human life. The EPA currently has a statistical average value of a human life pegged between 5 and 7 million US dollars.

[Vod]

This whole situation is horrible, but it's not worth somebody's life.

You and I have differing opinions.  Several hundred thousand dollars is certainly worth more than a person's life.  

Murderous fucktard alert

lol

BTW, the US government actually has hard numbers that they assign to the value of a human life. The EPA currently has a statistical average value of a human life pegged between 5 and 7 million US dollars.

Hmmm, I wonder why the Octomom (woman who had 8 babies at once after already having 6) is currently having to strip to make ends meet.  At what age does this value kick in?

A better example:  Let's say a forum member is very lazy and does not want to work.  He threatens to kill himself unless we donate to him a million dollars worth of bitcoins ( an extreme value based on his worth of $7 MILLION!).  Obviously we don't do it.  Does that make us all murderous fucktards?

[ribuck]

BTW, the US government actually has hard numbers that they assign to the value of a human life. The EPA currently has a statistical average value of a human life pegged between 5 and 7 million US dollars.

I think you'll find that's their perceived value of an American (i.e. USA) life.

[rjk]

BTW, the US government actually has hard numbers that they assign to the value of a human life. The EPA currently has a statistical average value of a human life pegged between 5 and 7 million US dollars.

I think you'll find that's their perceived value of an American (i.e. USA) life.

Sadly I believe you would be correct.

[HorseRider]

hopefully that genjix has relaxed his brain at the hack conference, and come back with some acceptable plan.

I want my money back. 100% of money.  If I don't see the hope of it, I preserve my right for taking legal action.