Cooling micro data center for miners

[wangkanai]

I'm a miner myself with own engineering company manufacture that build micro data center. I'm planning to move my miners from in this cooling that my team build to save money hosting these miner else.
It can take 4KW easily per rack with PUE of 1.4.

its not enough for hard core mining, which i'm planning to up the spec to handle 20KW per rack with PUE 1.3

I like you comments what else i should improve.

Thank mates 

http://www.sarin.mobi/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/micro-data-center-perspective.png
http://www.sarin.mobi/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/micro-data-center-front.png
http://www.sarin.mobi/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/micro-data-center-back.png
http://www.sarin.mobi/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/micro-data-center-inside.png
http://www.sarin.mobi/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/micro-data-center-spec.png

[1714883074]

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[1714883074]

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[1714883074]

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[efx]

 That looks like a rather nice design you have there  


I will leave it to others more knowledgeable than I to comment on the potential efficiency of the design.

I like what I see though.

[Newar]

Is this from a fridge? Just asking because fridge systems are not made to run 24/7.

Also, stating the obvious, if you need to spend on hardware and electricity to cool your miners, you already have lost the edge in the competition.

[dogie]

As others have said, only the minority mine with AC unless they have really, really cheap power. Most people just use a tonne of ambient air to replace the warm air.

With all these cases, you're also running into the problem that they're not really needed. We can pick up cheap steel shelving for a negligible price compared to a rack, or open racks for a few hundred.

[notlist3d]

Winter weather is started for the lucky ones.  Can use cool/cold outside air.   It's much cheaper to use ambient cold temperature then running a AC.

I really like the product, I just will never be able to justify it personally.

[wangkanai]

As for 24/7 yap is certified to do so. Also guys like Hitachi said build them OEM brand cabinet.
For you cold place are luck. I'm in Thailand where the season is only consider is hot and hotter and hottest.

[notlist3d]

As for 24/7 yap is certified to do so. Also guys like Hitachi said build them OEM brand cabinet.
For you cold place are luck. I'm in Thailand where the season is only consider is hot and hotter and hottest.

It is very cool no one can deny it.  I love the quality.

But in today's world you might be better off paying for hosting somewhere that is not " only consider is hot and hotter and hottest".  It takes a LOT of fees to pay off this i'm guessing. 

Is your electricity really cheap?

[wangkanai]

Hosted colocation in Thailand cost $3,000/month with max 7kw. Extra power cost $0.3/kwh
So I don't think you afford to be in such system, where commercial power would cost $0.08/kwh from the grid.

[jimmothy]

What's the cost per KW for one of these things?

[wangkanai]

What's the cost per KW for one of these things?

Price quote in unit of rack? And its not ratio.
This unit right now is $8,000 FOB Thailand.
Right now I'm trying to drive the cost down and up the cooling capacity.

[dogie]

What's the cost per KW for one of these things?

Price quote in unit of rack? And its not ratio.
This unit right now is $8,000 FOB Thailand.
Right now I'm trying to drive the cost down and up the cooling capacity.

So thats the thing, even if you get it up to 10KW per rack that's only 12TH of miners. Which is about $5000 of miners. The costs don't add up.

[wangkanai]

What's the cost per KW for one of these things?

Price quote in unit of rack? And its not ratio.
This unit right now is $8,000 FOB Thailand.
Right now I'm trying to drive the cost down and up the cooling capacity.

So thats the thing, even if you get it up to 10KW per rack that's only 12TH of miners. Which is about $5000 of miners. The costs don't add up.

What do you think is reasonable?
30KW per rack can put in 14 x Antminer S4 (2TH) = 28TH per rack

[wangkanai]

also think antminer s4 cost $1,250 without shipping and taxes, so that is around $9,000 for 6 units
then if 30kw per rack support 20 antminer s4, where you can put in max (42/3) = units
for Spondoolies SP35 would need 3.5kw per unit of 2U. then one rack can fit 21 x SP35 = 73.5kw which miner would cost $83,580

[Tupsu]

also think antminer s4 cost $1,250 without shipping and taxes, so that is around $9,000 for 6 units
then if 30kw per rack support 20 antminer s4, where you can put in max (42/3) = units
for Spondoolies SP35 would need 3.5kw per unit of 2U. then one rack can fit 21 x SP35 = 73.5kw which miner would cost $83,580

What do you do when the air conditioner is going to melting process ?

20xS4 =28kW  at least 5 minutes in a small enclosed space. How long does it take time for S4 go 50 degrees Celsius to 80 degrees and turns mining out. After that you need to do a manual restart.

Your rack  never support 20 antminer s4.

[klondike_bar]

also think antminer s4 cost $1,250 without shipping and taxes, so that is around $9,000 for 6 units
then if 30kw per rack support 20 antminer s4, where you can put in max (42/3) = units
for Spondoolies SP35 would need 3.5kw per unit of 2U. then one rack can fit 21 x SP35 = 73.5kw which miner would cost $83,580

what the hell are you talking about? The specs in the first post state that the maximum cooling capacity of the upgraded-level cabinet is only 3.5kW.

Thats a single SP35 sitting in the cabinet, and add about 30% to that to cover the costs of running an AC unit to handle the heat.

ADD ANOTHER 30% to that to cover the cost of running an AC in the building that contains the cabinet, since the building is now dealing with both the SP35 heat PLUS the heat created by running an AC in the cabinet.

3.5kW*(1.3^2) = 5.9kW of electricity used per cabinet that holds only 1 SP35, and dumps all the heat directly out the back (which is what an unenclosed SP35 does anyways)

[wangkanai]

This project is proven to been feel interesting. Yes, right now my cabinet is 3.5kw capacity. The question is how capacity should I upgrade my design. Talking from point that I have pictures shown as working production for another application already. So I like to find a spot in bitcoin mining. But the one I have does not fit the capacity requirements yet.
Thank you for your advice mate

[klondike_bar]

This project is proven to been feel interesting. Yes, right now my cabinet is 3.5kw capacity. The question is how capacity should I upgrade my design. Talking from point that I have pictures shown as working production for another application already. So I like to find a spot in bitcoin mining. But the one I have does not fit the capacity requirements yet.
Thank you for your advice mate

I am racking my brain to understand what situation someone would ever use a 20kW contained-cooling rack. Usually these are used with 1-2kW of gear as a sound-dampening enclosure, not meant to actually cool a large amount of power.

OPTION 1: You put 20kW of equipment in an open rack or on shelving. It costs <$400. 20kW of heat is blown out the back of the cabinet.
OPTION 2: You put 20kW of equipment into a sealed enclosure with a 1.3 PUE AC built in. It costs >$5000 and weighs >300lbs when empty. 26kW of heat is blown out the back of the cabinet.

oh, and option 2 is a little quieter, you only have the noise of a 20kW-capable air conditioner.


Seriously - this is a product with no market. Liquid Immersion cooling tanks are the obvious alternative, and are quieter, FAR more power efficient, and can move the heat outside of a building by pumping the hot liquid to a radiator located on the roof.

[notlist3d]

This project is proven to been feel interesting. Yes, right now my cabinet is 3.5kw capacity. The question is how capacity should I upgrade my design. Talking from point that I have pictures shown as working production for another application already. So I like to find a spot in bitcoin mining. But the one I have does not fit the capacity requirements yet.
Thank you for your advice mate

I am racking my brain to understand what situation someone would ever use a 20kW contained-cooling rack. Usually these are used with 1-2kW of gear as a sound-dampening enclosure, not meant to actually cool a large amount of power.

OPTION 1: You put 20kW of equipment in an open rack or on shelving. It costs <$400. 20kW of heat is blown out the back of the cabinet.
OPTION 2: You put 20kW of equipment into a sealed enclosure with a 1.3 PUE AC built in. It costs >$5000 and weighs >300lbs when empty. 26kW of heat is blown out the back of the cabinet.

oh, and option 2 is a little quieter, you only have the noise of a 20kW-capable air conditioner.


Seriously - this is a product with no market. Liquid Immersion cooling tanks are the obvious alternative, and are quieter, FAR more power efficient, and can move the heat outside of a building by pumping the hot liquid to a radiator located on the roof.

It might allow a data center without the airflow to host a few miners.  But cost I don't see this as feasible.

The true data centers for bitcoin have massive airflow.  And they would never need this.

I would have to agree to expensive to hobby miners, and no market for these in a true bitcoin data center.

[wangkanai]

This project is proven to been feel interesting. Yes, right now my cabinet is 3.5kw capacity. The question is how capacity should I upgrade my design. Talking from point that I have pictures shown as working production for another application already. So I like to find a spot in bitcoin mining. But the one I have does not fit the capacity requirements yet.
Thank you for your advice mate

I am racking my brain to understand what situation someone would ever use a 20kW contained-cooling rack. Usually these are used with 1-2kW of gear as a sound-dampening enclosure, not meant to actually cool a large amount of power.

OPTION 1: You put 20kW of equipment in an open rack or on shelving. It costs <$400. 20kW of heat is blown out the back of the cabinet.
OPTION 2: You put 20kW of equipment into a sealed enclosure with a 1.3 PUE AC built in. It costs >$5000 and weighs >300lbs when empty. 26kW of heat is blown out the back of the cabinet.

oh, and option 2 is a little quieter, you only have the noise of a 20kW-capable air conditioner.


Seriously - this is a product with no market. Liquid Immersion cooling tanks are the obvious alternative, and are quieter, FAR more power efficient, and can move the heat outside of a building by pumping the hot liquid to a radiator located on the roof.

It might allow a data center without the airflow to host a few miners.  But cost I don't see this as feasible.

The true data centers for bitcoin have massive airflow.  And they would never need this.

I would have to agree to expensive to hobby miners, and no market for these in a true bitcoin data center.

The product sale good with more then 10,000 units to market like bank branch, small office, cellular site and etc in Thailand alone. Heat pass through a duct out of the room.

Immersion cooling is what I'm looking at next. I'm developing a 200kw per horizontal rack with micro chiller. Trying to make one withIn $20K budget right now.

[seriouscoin]

This project is proven to been feel interesting. Yes, right now my cabinet is 3.5kw capacity. The question is how capacity should I upgrade my design. Talking from point that I have pictures shown as working production for another application already. So I like to find a spot in bitcoin mining. But the one I have does not fit the capacity requirements yet.
Thank you for your advice mate

Hey are you a failed engineer or something?

You CANT upgrade the cabinet cooling capacity due to the damn design is based on phased change. There will be no compressor setup in the world that can handle 10kW that can fit in that cabinet.

You want high density, look for other alternatives.

[seriouscoin]

This project is proven to been feel interesting. Yes, right now my cabinet is 3.5kw capacity. The question is how capacity should I upgrade my design. Talking from point that I have pictures shown as working production for another application already. So I like to find a spot in bitcoin mining. But the one I have does not fit the capacity requirements yet.
Thank you for your advice mate

I am racking my brain to understand what situation someone would ever use a 20kW contained-cooling rack. Usually these are used with 1-2kW of gear as a sound-dampening enclosure, not meant to actually cool a large amount of power.

OPTION 1: You put 20kW of equipment in an open rack or on shelving. It costs <$400. 20kW of heat is blown out the back of the cabinet.
OPTION 2: You put 20kW of equipment into a sealed enclosure with a 1.3 PUE AC built in. It costs >$5000 and weighs >300lbs when empty. 26kW of heat is blown out the back of the cabinet.

oh, and option 2 is a little quieter, you only have the noise of a 20kW-capable air conditioner.


Seriously - this is a product with no market. Liquid Immersion cooling tanks are the obvious alternative, and are quieter, FAR more power efficient, and can move the heat outside of a building by pumping the hot liquid to a radiator located on the roof.

It might allow a data center without the airflow to host a few miners.  But cost I don't see this as feasible.

The true data centers for bitcoin have massive airflow.  And they would never need this.

I would have to agree to expensive to hobby miners, and no market for these in a true bitcoin data center.

The product sale good with more then 10,000 units to market like bank branch, small office, cellular site and etc in Thailand alone. Heat pass through a duct out of the room.

Immersion cooling is what I'm looking at next. I'm developing a 200kw per horizontal rack with micro chiller. Trying to make one withIn $20K budget right now.

LOL you just pulled that shit from Alliedcontrol didnt you?

Such a joke.

[wangkanai]

This project is proven to been feel interesting. Yes, right now my cabinet is 3.5kw capacity. The question is how capacity should I upgrade my design. Talking from point that I have pictures shown as working production for another application already. So I like to find a spot in bitcoin mining. But the one I have does not fit the capacity requirements yet.
Thank you for your advice mate

Hey are you a failed engineer or something?

You CANT upgrade the cabinet cooling capacity due to the damn design is based on phased change. There will be no compressor setup in the world that can handle 10kW that can fit in that cabinet.

You want high density, look for other alternatives.

You are correct the compressor. With the upgrade design this unit will be by external chiller sending cooled water.

[wangkanai]

This project is proven to been feel interesting. Yes, right now my cabinet is 3.5kw capacity. The question is how capacity should I upgrade my design. Talking from point that I have pictures shown as working production for another application already. So I like to find a spot in bitcoin mining. But the one I have does not fit the capacity requirements yet.
Thank you for your advice mate

I am racking my brain to understand what situation someone would ever use a 20kW contained-cooling rack. Usually these are used with 1-2kW of gear as a sound-dampening enclosure, not meant to actually cool a large amount of power.

OPTION 1: You put 20kW of equipment in an open rack or on shelving. It costs <$400. 20kW of heat is blown out the back of the cabinet.
OPTION 2: You put 20kW of equipment into a sealed enclosure with a 1.3 PUE AC built in. It costs >$5000 and weighs >300lbs when empty. 26kW of heat is blown out the back of the cabinet.

oh, and option 2 is a little quieter, you only have the noise of a 20kW-capable air conditioner.



Seriously - this is a product with no market. Liquid Immersion cooling tanks are the obvious alternative, and are quieter, FAR more power efficient, and can move the heat outside of a building by pumping the hot liquid to a radiator located on the roof.

It might allow a data center without the airflow to host a few miners.  But cost I don't see this as feasible.

The true data centers for bitcoin have massive airflow.  And they would never need this.

I would have to agree to expensive to hobby miners, and no market for these in a true bitcoin data center.

The product sale good with more then 10,000 units to market like bank branch, small office, cellular site and etc in Thailand alone. Heat pass through a duct out of the room.

Immersion cooling is what I'm looking at next. I'm developing a 200kw per horizontal rack with micro chiller. Trying to make one withIn $20K budget right now.

LOL you just pulled that shit from Alliedcontrol didnt you?

Such a joke.

Actually no, I did such project as OEM for supercomputer heat pipe cooling direct to CPU before.
Personally i like what allied control did with their modular design.

[seriouscoin]

This project is proven to been feel interesting. Yes, right now my cabinet is 3.5kw capacity. The question is how capacity should I upgrade my design. Talking from point that I have pictures shown as working production for another application already. So I like to find a spot in bitcoin mining. But the one I have does not fit the capacity requirements yet.
Thank you for your advice mate

I am racking my brain to understand what situation someone would ever use a 20kW contained-cooling rack. Usually these are used with 1-2kW of gear as a sound-dampening enclosure, not meant to actually cool a large amount of power.

OPTION 1: You put 20kW of equipment in an open rack or on shelving. It costs <$400. 20kW of heat is blown out the back of the cabinet.
OPTION 2: You put 20kW of equipment into a sealed enclosure with a 1.3 PUE AC built in. It costs >$5000 and weighs >300lbs when empty. 26kW of heat is blown out the back of the cabinet.

oh, and option 2 is a little quieter, you only have the noise of a 20kW-capable air conditioner.



Seriously - this is a product with no market. Liquid Immersion cooling tanks are the obvious alternative, and are quieter, FAR more power efficient, and can move the heat outside of a building by pumping the hot liquid to a radiator located on the roof.

It might allow a data center without the airflow to host a few miners.  But cost I don't see this as feasible.

The true data centers for bitcoin have massive airflow.  And they would never need this.

I would have to agree to expensive to hobby miners, and no market for these in a true bitcoin data center.

The product sale good with more then 10,000 units to market like bank branch, small office, cellular site and etc in Thailand alone. Heat pass through a duct out of the room.

Immersion cooling is what I'm looking at next. I'm developing a 200kw per horizontal rack with micro chiller. Trying to make one withIn $20K budget right now.

LOL you just pulled that shit from Alliedcontrol didnt you?

Such a joke.

Actually no, I did such project as OEM for supercomputer heat pipe cooling direct to CPU before.
Personally i like what allied control did with their modular design.

Uh wut? yeah that would help you with your immersion project....lol you have alot more to learn then.

BTW, the 200kW per tank was actually calculated by AlliedControl. So dont BS, you might find someone who works with AlliedControl on here ...wink wink*

[wangkanai]

  yap, their is a lot more to learn and waiting for your advice 

[notlist3d]

You can spend a ton on cabinets... immersion... i think in end you will figure out most use lots and lots of air.   They extract the heat with massive amount of air.   

I hope i'm wrong and you make a huge amount, I always wish business with bitcoins luck.  But in this case i think you  will find eventually most use air (fans, cooling, etc) and will not spend the money for the cabinets with cooling in them or immersion.

[Newar]

You can spend a ton on cabinets... immersion... i think in end you will figure out most use lots and lots of air.   They extract the heat with massive amount of air.   

I hope i'm wrong and you make a huge amount, I always wish business with bitcoins luck.  But in this case i think you  will find eventually most use air (fans, cooling, etc) and will not spend the money for the cabinets with cooling in them or immersion.

And on top of that most miners are tinkerers too. So if they really want to do fridge/immersion they will find a way and in the process realise it's cheaper to build something locally.

[mavericklm]

not worth! we have negative roi on everything and you come up with more costs in the electric bill!

[wangkanai]

not worth! we have negative roi on everything and you come up with more costs in the electric bill!

Is their anything that make roi?

[notlist3d]

not worth! we have negative roi on everything and you come up with more costs in the electric bill!

Is their anything that make roi?

Depends on electricity price.  But no matter what the margins are not big enough for hobby miners to buy cabinet like that or immersion.  I wish they were I would love to have my miners in cabinets like that.

The big data centers use lots of air.  Just would cost to much to add these costs no matter size of mining operation.

[mavericklm]

positive roi? nothing!!!

[wangkanai]

positive roi? nothing!!!

Don't think so. How would big data center make their profit in this crytocurrency mining business then?
All their is to return on investment within the lifespan of the mining rig that paid for both hardware and electricity bill at the current value of bitcoin. Let me do the math later in the day.

[BitcraneAU]

Hi, any sort of "refrigerator" or "air-conditioning" system will not be enough to cool your average Bitcoin miner. The most important thing is bring in fresh, outside air into the unit and taking the hot air away as far as possible, so high RPM large fans are the best way to go. The most important thing is the amount of cubic feet of air per minute the fan can move.

Source; Running a mine in Australia, Summer :/

[klondike_bar]

positive roi? nothing!!!

Don't think so. How would big data center make their profit in this crytocurrency mining business then?

1) by not spending $5000 per specialized rack that isnt necessary
2) by not spending aan extra 30% on power for each of these specialised racks, then still having heat to cool yet again.

its not complicated. Mining equipment blows the heat out the back of a rack. Your equipment contains this heat, cools it at PUE 1.3 or worse, and then dumps that 130%+ heat OUT THE BACK OF THE RACK.

This idea would cost more, weigh more, draw more power, and create more heat. I do not think there is a single benefit other than perhaps a slight noise reduction

[wangkanai]

Hi, any sort of "refrigerator" or "air-conditioning" system will not be enough to cool your average Bitcoin miner. The most important thing is bring in fresh, outside air into the unit and taking the hot air away as far as possible, so high RPM large fans are the best way to go. The most important thing is the amount of cubic feet of air per minute the fan can move.

Source; Running a mine in Australia, Summer :/

Ossy guys I hear a lot about evaporative free cooling over there in Australia. That kind technology is easy to implement and cost a lot to build and operate. Would that be solution for bitcoin mining. Their will be 1 pump and I think we can use the miner fan to pull in the air and a exhaust fan to take out the heat.
What do you think of the idea?

[klondike_bar]

Hi, any sort of "refrigerator" or "air-conditioning" system will not be enough to cool your average Bitcoin miner. The most important thing is bring in fresh, outside air into the unit and taking the hot air away as far as possible, so high RPM large fans are the best way to go. The most important thing is the amount of cubic feet of air per minute the fan can move.

Source; Running a mine in Australia, Summer :/

Ossy guys I hear a lot about evaporative free cooling over there in Australia. That kind technology is easy to implement and cost a lot to build and operate. Would that be solution for bitcoin mining. Their will be 1 pump and I think we can use the miner fan to pull in the air and a exhaust fan to take out the heat.
What do you think of the idea?

i think you dont know whether to use refrigeration systems, immersion cooling, or evaporative cooling, yet claim to have thorough knowledge of each. The point is that cooling can be different for every location, but refrigeration tech is 100% the least cost-efficient

[wangkanai]

Hi, any sort of "refrigerator" or "air-conditioning" system will not be enough to cool your average Bitcoin miner. The most important thing is bring in fresh, outside air into the unit and taking the hot air away as far as possible, so high RPM large fans are the best way to go. The most important thing is the amount of cubic feet of air per minute the fan can move.

Source; Running a mine in Australia, Summer :/

Ossy guys I hear a lot about evaporative free cooling over there in Australia. That kind technology is easy to implement and cost a lot to build and operate. Would that be solution for bitcoin mining. Their will be 1 pump and I think we can use the miner fan to pull in the air and a exhaust fan to take out the heat.
What do you think of the idea?

i think you dont know whether to use refrigeration systems, immersion cooling, or evaporative cooling, yet claim to have thorough knowledge of each. The point is that cooling can be different for every location, but refrigeration tech is 100% the least cost-efficient

If you are an expert, please send me your CV and we can talk about a job offer for you over here to Thailand to help me a perfect cooling bitcoin mining.
FYI. This cabinet doesn't use refrigeration, it use precision cooling data center with airflow optimization front to back.

[Biffa]

If you are an expert, please send me your CV and we can talk about a job offer for you over here to Thailand to help me a perfect cooling bitcoin mining.
FYI. This cabinet doesn't use refrigeration, it use precision cooling data center with airflow optimization front to back.

I've highlighted your problem right there, you need to be in or close to the Arctic circle or Antarctic circle to make use of low ambient temperatures, then all you need is high airflow, and in the summer when the ambient rises a bit you can use evaporative coolers if you need extra.

You're just in the wrong place thats all, your trying to find a solution to a problem that doesn't exist where bitcoin mining farms are best located.

[klondike_bar]

Hi, any sort of "refrigerator" or "air-conditioning" system will not be enough to cool your average Bitcoin miner. The most important thing is bring in fresh, outside air into the unit and taking the hot air away as far as possible, so high RPM large fans are the best way to go. The most important thing is the amount of cubic feet of air per minute the fan can move.

Source; Running a mine in Australia, Summer :/

Ossy guys I hear a lot about evaporative free cooling over there in Australia. That kind technology is easy to implement and cost a lot to build and operate. Would that be solution for bitcoin mining. Their will be 1 pump and I think we can use the miner fan to pull in the air and a exhaust fan to take out the heat.
What do you think of the idea?

i think you dont know whether to use refrigeration systems, immersion cooling, or evaporative cooling, yet claim to have thorough knowledge of each. The point is that cooling can be different for every location, but refrigeration tech is 100% the least cost-efficient

If you are an expert, please send me your CV and we can talk about a job offer for you over here to Thailand to help me a perfect cooling bitcoin mining.
FYI. This cabinet doesn't use refrigeration, it use precision cooling data center with airflow optimization front to back.

build an ope-air system with high airflow. use evaporative cooling. Look at cowboyminer's farm (pre-burning to the ground) for an idea of how to operate high density without cabinets.

If you want quiet high density, look at datatank.

and no, im not an expert with a CV in HVAC- only an engineer happy working in canada.