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Author Topic: Zerovert - First Truly & Only Anonymous Coin with Zerocoin | Mandatory Upgrade !  (Read 50909 times)
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November 06, 2014, 01:08:28 AM
 #221

Yeah its fairly large and i have a feeling its going to get bigger and bigger  /coin
so if you want to "anonymize" 1000 coins, you need to mint 1000 coins, and spend 1000 coins

Nah, the proofs stay the same size. Although, it looks like the parameters they chose may be totally insecure, at least if they're using the default ZRC lib. I think secure proof sizes were larger, around 128 KB with >3k bit keys, their proof sizes imply much smaller bit commitments. If this is the case the security is already broken.

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November 06, 2014, 01:15:53 AM
 #222

Yeah its fairly large and i have a feeling its going to get bigger and bigger  /coin
so if you want to "anonymize" 1000 coins, you need to mint 1000 coins, and spend 1000 coins

Nah, the proofs stay the same size. Although, it looks like the parameters they chose may be totally insecure, at least if they're using the default ZRC lib. I think secure proof sizes were larger, around 128 KB with >3k bit keys, their proof sizes imply much smaller bit commitments.

Thats 24.1Kb / proof/coin 1000coin/proof=25mb

If you wanted to anonymous 1000 coins using this solution, it would cost 40 zerovert, and it would take about 17 hours to verify
and add 25MB to the blockchain as I understand it
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November 06, 2014, 01:19:27 AM
 #223


Well, even if it doesn't scale and it's not secure enough, it's still a nice proof of concept we can play with. I'll try some zerocoin spends tomorrow when the coins I mined mature. Unfortunately the issues are fundamental so it's not a matter of just tweaking some parameters to make this usable in real world situations.

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November 06, 2014, 01:24:54 AM
 #224


Well, even if it doesn't scale and it's not secure enough, it's still a nice proof of concept we can play with. I'll try some zerocoin spends tomorrow when the coins I mined mature. Unfortunately the issues are fundamental so it's not a matter of just tweaking some parameters to make this usable in real world situations.

It's quite clever that they never send zerocoins Tongue
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November 06, 2014, 01:31:45 AM
 #225


Well, even if it doesn't scale and it's not secure enough, it's still a nice proof of concept we can play with. I'll try some zerocoin spends tomorrow when the coins I mined mature. Unfortunately the issues are fundamental so it's not a matter of just tweaking some parameters to make this usable in real world situations.

It's quite clever that they never send zerocoins Tongue

I agree with SpainCoinDev, nice that someone actually implemented it, even though it was a bit reckless.

Good job zerovert Smiley

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November 06, 2014, 01:46:33 AM
 #226


Well, even if it doesn't scale and it's not secure enough, it's still a nice proof of concept we can play with. I'll try some zerocoin spends tomorrow when the coins I mined mature. Unfortunately the issues are fundamental so it's not a matter of just tweaking some parameters to make this usable in real world situations.

It's quite clever that they never send zerocoins Tongue

I agree with SpainCoinDev, nice that someone actually implemented it, even though it was a bit reckless.

Good job zerovert Smiley

I still don't like the premine maybe they are really going to need it. I think its money/time spent better elsewhere!
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November 06, 2014, 01:49:30 AM
 #227

Why is Spaincoindev in here trolling back and forth with longnshort. Talking a ll negatively in this coins thread. Sure I know just talking facts and tech but in such a way that its negative and fud like. Everyone knows what you aguys are doing. SpaincoinDev I think your coin is looking for you.

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November 06, 2014, 02:04:29 AM
 #228

Why is Spaincoindev in here trolling back and forth with longnshort. Talking a ll negatively in this coins thread. Sure I know just talking facts and tech but in such a way that its negative and fud like. Everyone knows what you aguys are doing. SpaincoinDev I think your coin is looking for you.

I'm very open about my opinions and i try to have the facts. This has been done for a long time, long before many of you came along and started sweeping everything under a rug with newbie accounts.
I'm very interested in the truth of things. They just don't justify a premine in my opinion, as this concept is no where near production ready.

There is a walk through here https://github.com/Zerocoin/libzerocoin/wiki/Integrating-with-bitcoin-clients

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November 06, 2014, 02:06:09 AM
Last edit: November 06, 2014, 02:45:43 AM by BanditryAndLoot
 #229

Why is Spaincoindev in here trolling back and forth with longnshort. Talking a ll negatively in this coins thread. Sure I know just talking facts and tech but in such a way that its negative and fud like. Everyone knows what you aguys are doing. SpaincoinDev I think your coin is looking for you.

So would you rather have these people come in here and celebrate 80 bit security, or have people speak from their understanding about what is in front of us?

The fact that it's negative or positive doesn't change facts, there's really no way you can say 'well damn we've got potentially trusted secure setup parameters, but the actual zkps that are produced can be cracked with a toaster' in a positive light..



Even for the modest
lambda = 80 security level (ensuring forgery effort of 2^80 operations), Zerocoin spend proofs exceed 25KB. Since these proofs must be stored in the block chain, the large size of these proofs makes it challenging to deploy Zerocoin in practice.

We're right at 25kb..


The appropriate security strength to be used depends on the sensitivity of the data being protected, and needs to be determined by the owner of that data (e.g., a person or an organization). For the Federal government, a minimum security strength of 80 bits is recommended in 2010; a minimum security strength of 112 bits is strongly recommended, beginning in 2011 (see [SP 800-57]). However, with the acceptance of a certain amount of risk, the minimum of 80 bits of security strength may be used until the end of 2013. Based on the latest understanding of the state-of-the-art for breaking the cryptographic algorithms, given particular key lengths, the transition to the 112-bit security strength shall be accomplished by 2014, except where specifically indicated. See Appendix A for an explanation...


Wonder what info/comments the devs have? Have they done anything to keep ~25kb and use >80 bit security, with the same benefit that larger proofs provide?

And it's only at the end of fall, that we discover it was naught but the wind that knew when one particular leaf was to fall from one particular tree, only to land in one distinct spot .. to be left for an eternity, and waste its time in a wait sublime. C0A2A1C4
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November 06, 2014, 02:21:20 AM
 #230


I still don't like the premine maybe they are really going to need it. I think its money/time spent better elsewhere!


OH oh oh (hold up hand like in school) I know i know! It's money/time better spent in......wait for it........ShadowCash!!!!!!!! Of course it is. Not. Trolls. Good grief Charlie Brown go back in to SDC already.

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November 06, 2014, 02:23:46 AM
 #231


Oh, I see .. you'd rather these people come in here and exchange personal attacks.

You're #4 on my ignore list, I'm sorry but I just don't think you have anything to contribute.

And it's only at the end of fall, that we discover it was naught but the wind that knew when one particular leaf was to fall from one particular tree, only to land in one distinct spot .. to be left for an eternity, and waste its time in a wait sublime. C0A2A1C4
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November 06, 2014, 03:45:04 AM
 #232

snip

Adults are talking. Move along now.

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November 06, 2014, 03:57:06 AM
Last edit: November 06, 2014, 04:20:16 AM by TheCoinFinder
 #233

For people wanting to mine it,

HashHarder has opened a pool.

Check the signature.

.Deviant.io.                ▄▄▄▄███▄▄▄▄
             ▄█▀▀░░░░░░░░░▀▀█▄
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HoY
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November 06, 2014, 04:24:42 AM
 #234

For people wanting to mine it,

HashHarder has opened a pool.

Check the signature.

It's an Aux PoW coin, so nobody will mine it directly when they can mine VTC or one of the other scrypt-N coins at the same time
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November 06, 2014, 05:19:12 AM
 #235

look is good
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November 06, 2014, 05:35:31 AM
 #236

Longnshort, coolstoryteller, 00smurf, and other SDC trolls are in house full force now. Dev you must have really pissed in their cereal to get the king troll TrollsRoyce aka coolstoryteller in here. I warned you yesterday they will come and fud and troll. Sure as shitting here they are.  Roll Eyes

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November 06, 2014, 05:43:45 AM
 #237

Longnshort, coolstoryteller, 00smurf, and other SDC trolls are in house full force now. Dev you must have really pissed in their cereal to get the king troll TrollsRoyce aka coolstoryteller in here. I warned you yesterday they will come and fud and troll. Sure as shitting here they are.  Roll Eyes

Scary thing is the only person "trolling and "fuding" as you stupidly say all day, is you!  Roll Eyes

You and your buddies are the only ones cluttering up this thread you are just to mentally unstable to see it!
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November 06, 2014, 05:51:56 AM
 #238

Longnshort, coolstoryteller, 00smurf, and other SDC trolls are in house full force now. Dev you must have really pissed in their cereal to get the king troll TrollsRoyce aka coolstoryteller in here. I warned you yesterday they will come and fud and troll. Sure as shitting here they are.  Roll Eyes

Scary thing is the only person "trolling and "fuding" as you stupidly say all day, is you!  Roll Eyes

Not really I just let people know about you and your friends true motives. That is you guys will attack and fud and hurt any coin or project that you think may take steal the thunder of SDC. Lets see. I've trolled a coin or project. You could especially from your point of view argue I toll SDC. Say I do. I don't troll the coin or DEV. I actually like him and the project. I don't like you bag holding whales they run around trashing anything and everything you think might somehow take away from SDC.  You and your friends have trolled and fudded at least 6 coins and projects.  Same guys over and over with new shills added in along the way. I don't need fake info or fud threads. All anyone has to do is read your and CoolStorytellers and 00smurf post histories. Reads like a bad book.

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November 06, 2014, 06:00:22 AM
 #239

Longnshort, coolstoryteller, 00smurf, and other SDC trolls are in house full force now. Dev you must have really pissed in their cereal to get the king troll TrollsRoyce aka coolstoryteller in here. I warned you yesterday they will come and fud and troll. Sure as shitting here they are.  Roll Eyes

Scary thing is the only person "trolling and "fuding" as you stupidly say all day, is you!  Roll Eyes

Not really I just let people know about you and your friends true motives. That is you guys will attack and fud and hurt any coin or project that you think may take steal the thunder of SDC. Lets see. I've trolled a coin or project. You could especially from your point of view argue I toll SDC. Say I do. I don't troll the coin or DEV. I actually like him and the project. I don't like you bag holding whales they run around trashing anything and everything you think might somehow take away from SDC.  You and your friends have trolled and fudded at least 6 coins and projects.  Same guys over and over with new shills added in along the way. I don't need fake info or fud threads. All anyone has to do is read your and CoolStorytellers and 00smurf post histories. Reads like a bad book.
But you're full of shit and you are only lying..lies lies lies you insult everyone you come in contact with because you believe they cant see that you are a complete tossa!
You don't have a clue what anyones motives are you just have no clue ofr prof of anything you just walk around with your dick in your hand and your thumb in your mouth!

Anyone that takes you even remotely serious has issues too so you just insult the majority of us

Seriously kid, get a grip on yourself and stop arguing with me. You are again, cluttering the thread!
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November 06, 2014, 06:04:11 AM
 #240

Wonder what info/comments the devs have? Have they done anything to keep ~25kb and use >80 bit security, with the same benefit that larger proofs provide?

It's probably not possible, unless they've made some advancement in cryptography. From the paper I posted earlier:
Quote
Unfortunately, the double discrete log proof is constructed using cut-and-
choose methods which effectively repeat a single proof multiple times to decrease
the probability of forgery. As a result, the proof is of size λ · 2k where k is the
size of a single field element and λ is the soundness parameter of the proof
. For
1024 bit commitments and an 80 bit security level, this results in a 20KB double
discrete log proof and a total proof size (including the accumulator proof) of
25KB. Moreover, single threaded runtime for both verification and generation of
the proof runs in O(λ · k)
.

There's a reason that ZeroCoin hasn't really been implemented in a cryptocurrency before. Although AnonCoin claims to have done so, using 128 KB niZKPs; God only knows what the verification time is like on those.

Code:
XMR: 44GBHzv6ZyQdJkjqZje6KLZ3xSyN1hBSFAnLP6EAqJtCRVzMzZmeXTC2AHKDS9aEDTRKmo6a6o9r9j86pYfhCWDkKjbtcns
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