Mini Rig card = 2 x Altera Arria II EP2AGX260

[ngzhang]

And how much would a factory wafer respin cost from an old maskset, ngzhang? Do you know any numbers there?

just contact with an altera FAE ( is on of my friends  ), he is unwilling to discuss about the price, but leak a message that the A2 GX260 is about 300 USD at a moderate quantity. 

From what I understand A2 GX260 are capable of about 750GH/S  ie 1.5 GH/s for 2 = bfl new single (use 17 of them in mini rig)

ie if they where sold as singles  at about $1000  for 1.5 GH/s ---

maybe you should consider using A2 GX260  in your next FPGA development

certainly not  , 600USD (this is only chip cost) for only 1.5GH/s is unacceptable.  plus 100$ additional charge, what is your expected final price for a 700USD cost product? 1000USD? 

and, A2 is a obsolescent product, A5(Arria V series, 28nm) is much cheaper (20%+)than A2 (at same capacity), but BFL didn't use the faster and cheaper one. maybe it's really hard for them to find enough 2nd hand A5 FPGAs.

for now though, let's  see what will happen on spartan6 this year.

[rjk]

And how much would a factory wafer respin cost from an old maskset, ngzhang? Do you know any numbers there?

just contact with an altera FAE ( is on of my friends  ), he is unwilling to discuss about the price, but leak a message that the A2 GX260 is about 300 USD at a moderate quantity. 

If we made some wild assumptions that these were it, and that they could get them for $300 each, that means:

$300 x 17 cards per rig x 2 chips per card == $10,200.00

Mini-rig price: $15,295.00 minus $10,200.00 == $5,095.00

So are the PCBs, supporting components, PSU, enclosure, and fans enough to eat that ~$5k? Seems like there could be a decent bit of profit here.

[ngzhang]

And how much would a factory wafer respin cost from an old maskset, ngzhang? Do you know any numbers there?

just contact with an altera FAE ( is on of my friends  ), he is unwilling to discuss about the price, but leak a message that the A2 GX260 is about 300 USD at a moderate quantity. 

If we made some wild assumptions that these were it, and that they could get them for $300 each, that means:

$300 x 17 cards per rig x 2 chips per card == $10,200.00

Mini-rig price: $15,295.00 minus $10,200.00 == $5,095.00

So are the PCBs, supporting components, PSU, enclosure, and fans enough to eat that ~$5k? Seems like there could be a decent bit of profit here.

certainly not.
by experience, as a small amount product (bitcoin mining equipment will NEVER grow up to a traditionally BIG market you know), if the final price is twice as the cost, you will run at loss unless you careful calculation and strict budgeting, and it must be a easy to make stuff. sell the product at least triple of the cost will much better for a flat.

[hardpick]

And how much would a factory wafer respin cost from an old maskset, ngzhang? Do you know any numbers there?

just contact with an altera FAE ( is on of my friends  ), he is unwilling to discuss about the price, but leak a message that the A2 GX260 is about 300 USD at a moderate quantity. 

If we made some wild assumptions that these were it, and that they could get them for $300 each, that means:

$300 x 17 cards per rig x 2 chips per card == $10,200.00

Mini-rig price: $15,295.00 minus $10,200.00 == $5,095.00

So are the PCBs, supporting components, PSU, enclosure, and fans enough to eat that ~$5k? Seems like there could be a decent bit of profit here.

certainly not.
by experience, as a small amount product (bitcoin mining equipment will NEVER grow up to a traditionally BIG market you know), if the final price is twice as the cost, you will run at loss unless you careful calculation and strict budgeting, and it must be a easy to make stuff. sell the product at least triple of the cost will much better for a flat.



"certainly not.
by experience, as a small amount product (bitcoin mining equipment will NEVER grow up to a traditionally BIG market you know), if the final price is twice as the cost, you will run at loss unless you careful calculation and strict budgeting, and it must be a easy to make stuff. sell the product at least triple of the cost will much better for a flat. "



I dont ander stand  "sell the product at least triple of the cost will"   do you mean this product (mini rig)should be sold at 3 x $15,295 = $45,885

[ngzhang]

And how much would a factory wafer respin cost from an old maskset, ngzhang? Do you know any numbers there?

just contact with an altera FAE ( is on of my friends  ), he is unwilling to discuss about the price, but leak a message that the A2 GX260 is about 300 USD at a moderate quantity. 

If we made some wild assumptions that these were it, and that they could get them for $300 each, that means:

$300 x 17 cards per rig x 2 chips per card == $10,200.00

Mini-rig price: $15,295.00 minus $10,200.00 == $5,095.00

So are the PCBs, supporting components, PSU, enclosure, and fans enough to eat that ~$5k? Seems like there could be a decent bit of profit here.

certainly not.
by experience, as a small amount product (bitcoin mining equipment will NEVER grow up to a traditionally BIG market you know), if the final price is twice as the cost, you will run at loss unless you careful calculation and strict budgeting, and it must be a easy to make stuff. sell the product at least triple of the cost will much better for a flat.



"certainly not.
by experience, as a small amount product (bitcoin mining equipment will NEVER grow up to a traditionally BIG market you know), if the final price is twice as the cost, you will run at loss unless you careful calculation and strict budgeting, and it must be a easy to make stuff. sell the product at least triple of the cost will much better for a flat. "



I dont ander stand  "sell the product at least triple of the cost will"   do you mean this product (mini rig)should be sold at 3 x $15,295 = $45,885

that means if you produce a stuff cost you 100$, and it's a low quantity product. then in a general way, sell it at 200-300$ will make ends meet.
it doesn't matter what BFL do. they could make the singles and minirigs at a unbelievable low cost, or just don't want to earn any money "now". who knows.

[lame.duck]

And how much would a factory wafer respin cost from an old maskset, ngzhang? Do you know any numbers there?

just contact with an altera FAE ( is on of my friends  ), he is unwilling to discuss about the price, but leak a message that the A2 GX260 is about 300 USD at a moderate quantity. 

Just for curiosity, what does 'moderate quantity' means (probably for such largish FPGAs)?

[ngzhang]

And how much would a factory wafer respin cost from an old maskset, ngzhang? Do you know any numbers there?

just contact with an altera FAE ( is on of my friends  ), he is unwilling to discuss about the price, but leak a message that the A2 GX260 is about 300 USD at a moderate quantity. 

Just for curiosity, what does 'moderate quantity' means (probably for such largish FPGAs)?

200-500

[MrTeal]

I wonder what the quantity of Minirigs they have sold is? 30 would get them up to a quantity of 1000 FPGAs, which might be another price break for them.

Even then, they probably aren't making a ton of money on Minirigs if they're even paying $250 per FPGA. That would still be 8500 in FPGAs, and other components in the system would likely push it up closer to $10k. If they sell 30 FPGA MiniRigs, that would only leave 150k to pay for the space, keeping the lights on, paying employees, etc. There might be money in it, but not much.

[hardpick]

Maybe the low margins makes the mini rig ($15000 for 25 GB/s  -- $0.61 per M/h) good value for money product is to get people to pre pay.
So BFL balance sheet  very looks good for the vulture capitalist opps I mean venture capitalist. I would think the trade in is because there will be a high margin on asic rigs from day one and you would expect the new asic products to half in price after the trade in period expires .

[kano]

...
BFL FPGAs COULD be repurposed, but BFL requires encrypted bitstreams.

Who told you this?

[seriouscoin]

And how much would a factory wafer respin cost from an old maskset, ngzhang? Do you know any numbers there?

just contact with an altera FAE ( is on of my friends  ), he is unwilling to discuss about the price, but leak a message that the A2 GX260 is about 300 USD at a moderate quantity. 

If we made some wild assumptions that these were it, and that they could get them for $300 each, that means:

$300 x 17 cards per rig x 2 chips per card == $10,200.00

Mini-rig price: $15,295.00 minus $10,200.00 == $5,095.00

So are the PCBs, supporting components, PSU, enclosure, and fans enough to eat that ~$5k? Seems like there could be a decent bit of profit here.

certainly not.
by experience, as a small amount product (bitcoin mining equipment will NEVER grow up to a traditionally BIG market you know), if the final price is twice as the cost, you will run at loss unless you careful calculation and strict budgeting, and it must be a easy to make stuff. sell the product at least triple of the cost will much better for a flat.



"certainly not.
by experience, as a small amount product (bitcoin mining equipment will NEVER grow up to a traditionally BIG market you know), if the final price is twice as the cost, you will run at loss unless you careful calculation and strict budgeting, and it must be a easy to make stuff. sell the product at least triple of the cost will much better for a flat. "



I dont ander stand  "sell the product at least triple of the cost will"   do you mean this product (mini rig)should be sold at 3 x $15,295 = $45,885

that means if you produce a stuff cost you 100$, and it's a low quantity product. then in a general way, sell it at 200-300$ will make ends meet.
it doesn't matter what BFL do. they could make the singles and minirigs at a unbelievable low cost, or just don't want to earn any money "now". who knows.

My bet is they dont want to earn money now and use ASIC scheme to get more money later. It would possibly the best con job ever.

How many minirigs have they actually shipped? They already take preorder for ASIC and announce trade-in program.

[WhitePhantom]

My bet is they dont want to earn money now and use ASIC scheme to get more money later. It would possibly the best con job ever.

How many minirigs have they actually shipped? They already take preorder for ASIC and announce trade-in program.

You're probably right.  I can't believe nobody ever said anything negative about BFL before I sent them $30k in mid-March.  I was excited and hopeful until I read your post just now, but I guess I'm screwed because even if I somehow luck out and manage get the two mini-rigs I ordered, BFL must STILL be a scam.  *SOB!*