BitBay |Decentralized Marketplace|Smart Contracts|IoT Tech|Markets Open

[dzimbeck]

Ok so I just wanted to set something straight here.

BTER will be holding the funds. And they will chop the funds to all the parties involved. They know im being licensed so they know to send me my share (at least).

So when we talked last week we agreed to have the ICO sent from BTER to a multisignature account in Armory. I know a good amount of my BTC will be there.

This would be an operating budget to pay devs. So with these guys personally vested, BTER being involved as well as myself. I highly doubt there is going to be a problem. I'm going to be coding no matter what and the whole hedging experiment is very exciting to me at least. I'm going to make it happen.

If they buy some Bay and want to sell it, they will feel pretty bad when we start pegging to the price of a dollar.

[threecats]

Since I don't feel like working quite yet... thought I would add some perspective from my standpoint and why although I understand the demands for transparency - I also understand and accept that there will be none.

To me, as an investor I have everything I need to know to make a decent bet on this project:

1) Demand for concept. As should be clear from both the initial success of this ICO and the amount of money (both investment and sales-wise) into silkroad, Overstock.com, etc. the crypto-currency world is desperate for an actual broad based marketplace in which to transact real exchange of goods.  Couple that with the interest in smart-contract based systems and trustless-escrow processes and availability of anon/relative-anon transactions and you've got a 100K BTC+ idea.

2) Nature of coins themselves.  Although I understand skepticism, the reality is that even of the 'good' or 'honest' coins... the majority fail due to a lack of initial funding.  As a result of the armies of 'investors' whose only desire is manipulating fast gains in BTC/fiat, those that don't have a war-chest of funding that is not dependent on the current market price of the coin itself often die an early death.  If the project managers have only access to funds which are dependent on the current exchange rate of their coin/BTC pairing, and further on the fiat/BTC pairing for actual expenditures (hotel, travel, marketing, etc.) what started out as an adequate amount (premine, ICO, whatever) rapidly turns into barely enough to send 2 people to one conference and then having to spend their time begging for donations - donations that have to come from bagholders who, in most cases, are already in the red.

3) The risk in general. There is a general misconception surrounding an ICO of a coin (partially due to naming) that causes people to draw similarities with an IPO in the stock market.  In reality this is much more similar to your nephew wanting to start a comic book store and asking relatives for enough capital to buy a storefront, inventory, and hire 2 employees, etc.  In many cases you have to accept that the money may simply disappear, and invest accordingly... however, in exchange you can still see returns - even in disastrous cases.

Waiting is much safer, however - since the BC/'BlackHand' (and the first multipool should be included in that list as well actually) was brought up here is where I sit in that:  I mined intially from day one and held everything.  I bought another 15BTC - at the time all I had - when everyone else was dumping... I then sold off a small portion of my bag when the pump occurred (although not as much as I wish I had in hindsight... I'd have 500BTC and the same amount of BC I held at the time by now)!  My investment was sound, despite everything that went down because I invested very early.  On the other hand, if I'd waited until I saw things working and bought in at 70K sats or something like that - assuredly because I didn't want to get left behind - then I'd be holding a 85% lost in my portfolio for a very long time... possibly forever (although I will hold my remaining BC forever, because now it's free - thanks to luck/early trust).

The bottom line is this... even if this were a scam, and the BTC was simply used to pump the coin and then dump it... with that much BTC for manipulation... it's gonna be one hell of a pump... and you should be able to capitalize on it.  On the other hand, if the parties are driven by greed (which we can assume as aren't all of us?) and even if they were initially planning on running with the funds - wouldn't it make more sense to get 10K BTC rather than ~2500 BTC?  It's clear that the amount of work required to deliver at least the first phases of this project (wallet/contracts/marketplace) is relatively simple to do... it's also obvious that if there's this much demand without those things being in place - then demand will only increase (along with price) - when it rolls out!  

If you're worried, wait - if you can absorb the risk/loss for the opportunity to capitalize on this demand/hype then you undoubtedly already threw your BTC into this.  If you're not sure, then look at it exactly the same as you would a lottery ticket or slot machine... where I live people dump millions every week into 1:1,000,000 long shots and they call it 'entertainment'... you might lose everything, you might double your money, or you might see 10,000% gains... but the only way you can guarantee that you won't see profits in this world is by doing nothing at all until it's over.

Wow, that was a very well written post. Your point about early entry and lowered risk rang a bell for me. I am holding BTCD as a long term play, and although I have taken some profits here and there, I am still solidly in the black - despite the current bear market. And the reason is the same - I recognized the technology early on, did alot of research, and despite the 'unknown dev' situation I bought in early and low. There was plenty enough to go on. ( I am not nudging BTCD here btw, just relating my parallel experience. )  

I see the reality here as being this: a functioning, non - vulnerable decentralized market has been the holy grail for a long time now. It has not happened as a community driven, open source initiative despite the resources (Open Bazaar) being in place. This project has the elements to make it happen. Anon backers do not faze me - I think it is actually quite wise in today's climate to have only a minimum number of public faces connected with a project such as this.

[dzimbeck]

The important part here david is this

"The guys involved have a vested interest since they bought some Bay just like you guys."

I really hope

1. You know these guys personally, have met them and are sure they are large players in some industry to an extent that an easy 1.2m is not enough incentive for them to exit and ruin their reputation and your own.

2. They have bought a TON of Bay themselves.

3. They see that BAY being worth x lot more than the price they paid if they use the 3000btc wisely and let you and their team push the project through to completion.

4. 3000 BTC will be enough.



what do you say about bter holding 2000BTC of it until we see some real results and a ledger for the expenses??

Surely 1000BTC is enough to get the ball rollling.

Indeed it is, as an answer to your first question, I knew one of the guys from about 6 months back and was aware he was an investor. I know its in their best interest to let me do my work and not interfere. And nobody said they hold a lot of Bay.  There has been a lot of orders so there is all kinds of people holding. So there is alot of people who will want price pegging and markets. You guys know about BlackHalo markets so we will see this tech very soon.

Thats compounded by the fact that they made a small deposit to me for my work.

Lastly I agree 2000 is enough... I'm very happy with this ICO. They did a very good job I think. If there is any coins left. BTER was instructed to burn them. So we are almost at the end of the ICO, it might hit 3000 although because people do love to wait until the end to buy up more of the coin.

So I'm cautiously optimistic just like a lot of you. Just like you.

[Piston Honda]

Since I don't feel like working quite yet... thought I would add some perspective from my standpoint and why although I understand the demands for transparency - I also understand and accept that there will be none.

To me, as an investor I have everything I need to know to make a decent bet on this project:

1) Demand for concept. As should be clear from both the initial success of this ICO and the amount of money (both investment and sales-wise) into silkroad, Overstock.com, etc. the crypto-currency world is desperate for an actual broad based marketplace in which to transact real exchange of goods.  Couple that with the interest in smart-contract based systems and trustless-escrow processes and availability of anon/relative-anon transactions and you've got a 100K BTC+ idea.

2) Nature of coins themselves.  Although I understand skepticism, the reality is that even of the 'good' or 'honest' coins... the majority fail due to a lack of initial funding.  As a result of the armies of 'investors' whose only desire is manipulating fast gains in BTC/fiat, those that don't have a war-chest of funding that is not dependent on the current market price of the coin itself often die an early death.  If the project managers have only access to funds which are dependent on the current exchange rate of their coin/BTC pairing, and further on the fiat/BTC pairing for actual expenditures (hotel, travel, marketing, etc.) what started out as an adequate amount (premine, ICO, whatever) rapidly turns into barely enough to send 2 people to one conference and then having to spend their time begging for donations - donations that have to come from bagholders who, in most cases, are already in the red.

3) The risk in general. There is a general misconception surrounding an ICO of a coin (partially due to naming) that causes people to draw similarities with an IPO in the stock market.  In reality this is much more similar to your nephew wanting to start a comic book store and asking relatives for enough capital to buy a storefront, inventory, and hire 2 employees, etc.  In many cases you have to accept that the money may simply disappear, and invest accordingly... however, in exchange you can still see returns - even in disastrous cases.

Waiting is much safer, however - since the BC/'BlackHand' (and the first multipool should be included in that list as well actually) was brought up here is where I sit in that:  I mined intially from day one and held everything.  I bought another 15BTC - at the time all I had - when everyone else was dumping... I then sold off a small portion of my bag when the pump occurred (although not as much as I wish I had in hindsight... I'd have 500BTC and the same amount of BC I held at the time by now)!  My investment was sound, despite everything that went down because I invested very early.  On the other hand, if I'd waited until I saw things working and bought in at 70K sats or something like that - assuredly because I didn't want to get left behind - then I'd be holding a 85% lost in my portfolio for a very long time... possibly forever (although I will hold my remaining BC forever, because now it's free - thanks to luck/early trust).

The bottom line is this... even if this were a scam, and the BTC was simply used to pump the coin and then dump it... with that much BTC for manipulation... it's gonna be one hell of a pump... and you should be able to capitalize on it.  On the other hand, if the parties are driven by greed (which we can assume as aren't all of us?) and even if they were initially planning on running with the funds - wouldn't it make more sense to get 10K BTC rather than ~2500 BTC?  It's clear that the amount of work required to deliver at least the first phases of this project (wallet/contracts/marketplace) is relatively simple to do... it's also obvious that if there's this much demand without those things being in place - then demand will only increase (along with price) - when it rolls out!  

If you're worried, wait - if you can absorb the risk/loss for the opportunity to capitalize on this demand/hype then you undoubtedly already threw your BTC into this.  If you're not sure, then look at it exactly the same as you would a lottery ticket or slot machine... where I live people dump millions every week into 1:1,000,000 long shots and they call it 'entertainment'... you might lose everything, you might double your money, or you might see 10,000% gains... but the only way you can guarantee that you won't see profits in this world is by doing nothing at all until it's over.

Thanks for your thoughtful insight - similar way of thinking about it here, I can understand folks being weary but given the amount of shitcoins out there...being vested in this coin feels a lot better than most, at least IMO.

Your blackcoin comments resonate that's for sure, as waiting (or buying at top) sure hurt lots of people, those that were in early benefited greatly.

[Momimaus]

Some crazy guesses:

The investors are all huge blackcoin bagholders.

Blackcoin will only be followed with the absolute minimum and will die.

The delievered wallet and working smart contracts,  just to get released the funds from bter, will be an exact copy of blackcoin and blackhalo. So investors pay 1,3 Mio$, but not for a new coin. They pay that blackcoin will continue development under a new name.

The reason why this project is not just Blackcoin: The devs have no money left.



So far so good, understandable situation, BUT it is not transparent. We don´t know the other holders, we don´t know how much they have invested. AND if you buy into your own ICO, nobody knows if you just take your invested BTC back. I don´t wanna say they will, but it is possible and very easy.

[Gizfreak]

In the meanwhile at BTer: 382220251.712 BAY left

[BitBay Team]

Please refrain from fudding this thread. If you have specific information by all means post it. However we have expressed our intention to keep this thread from degenerating into a fud-fest, which is what you are attempting to do by posting in this way.

Thanks

BitBay Team

[unusualfacts30]

Please refrain from fudding this thread. If you have specific information by all means post it. However we have expressed our intention to keep this thread from degenerating into a fud-fest, which is what you are attempting to do by posting in this way.

Thanks

BitBay Team

What would happen with the money right after ICO?

Any plans?

I'm ready to buy more but would appreciate answer to those questions.

[digicidal]

Some crazy guesses:

The investors are all huge blackcoin bagholders.

Blackcoin will only be followed with the absolute minimum and will die.

The delievered wallet and working smart contracts,  just to get released the funds from bter, will be an exact copy of blackcoin and blackhalo. So investors pay 1,3 Mio$, but not for a new coin. They pay that blackcoin will continue development under a new name.

The reason why this project is not just Blackcoin: The devs have no money left.

So far so good, understandable situation, BUT it is not transparent. We don´t know the other holders, we don´t know how much they have invested. AND if you buy into your own ICO, nobody knows if you just take your invested BTC back. I don´t wanna say they will, but it is possible and very easy.

A few corrections perhaps...

Unless BTC hits $500 soon... it won't be $1.3M but more along the lines of $800K or so.

If previous tech/code weren't used in new concepts/projects then every single alt-coin would not exist... for that matter even Bitcoin itself would be nothing more than a math experiment most likely.

Undoubtedly there are many from the Blackcoin camp that are investors (I am and I'm sure many others as well).  However, that does not mean anything nefarious - at least not necessarily.  All of us are enthusiastic about cryptocurrency in general or we wouldn't be here.  Anyone that has been around for more than a year remembers the highs and lows of BC very well.  Many, like myself, are able to invest in ventures like this because of BC's massive pump initially....  I know I would not have been able to profit significantly on DRK, BTM, etc... if it weren't for being able to gamble BTC that I sold BC for at a significant profit during that pump.

In almost everything (but especially in unregulated investments) there are winners and losers.  Some losers return to 'redeem themselves' by pursuing gains in other areas to compensate for losses in the past.  Some winners return to continue/extend their profitability.  Transparency is nice - but considering we're dealing with an unregulated marketplace, started and largely perpetuated by unknown and in many cases inexperienced enthusiasts/entrepreneurs (and a good number of scammers too, of course)... full disclosure will mostly only provide increased risk for the parties involved... and mitigate absolutely none of the risks accepted by investors.

We've 'known' the identities of nearly all of the biggest scammers in this market... and it hasn't helped.  On the other hand we've also profited massively as a result of a concept started by someone that was nothing other than a handle (and whose identity remains in question to this day).  

Or maybe you actually live next-door to Satoshi and it's never been an issue for you.  


Edit: On the "BC devs have no money" point... no correction necessary - except to point out that the actual 'dev' (singular-rat4) of BC itself, never had much money at all.  On the other point you actually answered your question right there.  If Blackcoin had a 'fundraiser' to crowdsource capital to create a decentralized marketplace... how successful would it have been - and how likely to become viable as a result would it be?  It's the same as a company that had corruption in management early on... you can fire everyone and rehire honest people... but you'll still be that 'corrupt company'.  On the other hand if you simply do the exact same thing (fire/rehire) but also change your name and move locations... suddenly everyone is willing to give you a chance again.

Do you think no one from Enron is still working in the only sector they have experience in?  How about Worldcomm?  Did everyone from Bear Stearns, Fannie/Freddy, etc. involved in the subprime crisis stop working in finance?  The reality is that if you are an investor of any kind that at least some of the people involved in these scandals are currently managing some aspect of something in which you are invested.  It might not be 'fair' or 'right' - but it is reality and you either have to face it or go hide in the closet.

[Gizfreak]

I almost lost my faith in cryptocurrency, but this feels solid as a rock and I'm a believer once again.
Thanks also go out to the Altcoin Herald and their article about BitBay.

[The Minion]

ALTCOIN UK

I think we all get your message, you think it's a scam blah blah blah.

You keep repeating the same things again and again. The dev tries to answer you again and again and again and you are just rude back to him.

Let's put it another way. Like someone else said ALTCOIN UK. You are a troll. Tosser.  

[mickyd]

Can someone explain how it will go after ICO?
Bay are converted to an other value on bter?
I can trade BAY after ICO on bter?

[digicidal]

Can someone explain how it will go after ICO?
Bay are converted to an other value on bter?
I can trade BAY after ICO on bter?

You own them... you should be able to trade BAY on any exchange that has a pairing for it.  I think you can safely assume after the amount of volume involved in the ICO itself, that there are more than one exchange that will be adding the pairing almost instantly in order to capitalize on some of that volume.

BTER is holding the BTC until deliveries are made, and burning any left over BAY that remains unsold.  I assume they will leave the market open on there - although it might close briefly during the burn-deliver phase.

Not official, but if that doesn't happen then I think things will have definitely gotten off on the wrong foot.

[Gizfreak]

Can someone explain how it will go after ICO?
Bay are converted to an other value on bter?
I can trade BAY after ICO on bter?

As far as I can see at the OP the QT wallet will be available shortly after the ICO ended, followed by the android app.
So you can simply withdraw it from BTer as being BAY then.

[mickyd]

Can someone explain how it will go after ICO?
Bay are converted to an other value on bter?
I can trade BAY after ICO on bter?

You own them... you should be able to trade BAY on any exchange that has a pairing for it.  I think you can safely assume after the amount of volume involved in the ICO itself, that there are more than one exchange that will be adding the pairing almost instantly in order to capitalize on some of that volume.

BTER is holding the BTC until deliveries are made, and burning any left over BAY that remains unsold.  I assume they will leave the market open on there - although it might close briefly during the burn-deliver phase.

Not official, but if that doesn't happen then I think things will have definitely gotten off on the wrong foot.

Thank you for explaining! Where the BAY are delivered after ICO, and when?

[digicidal]

Can someone explain how it will go after ICO?
Bay are converted to an other value on bter?
I can trade BAY after ICO on bter?

You own them... you should be able to trade BAY on any exchange that has a pairing for it.  I think you can safely assume after the amount of volume involved in the ICO itself, that there are more than one exchange that will be adding the pairing almost instantly in order to capitalize on some of that volume.

BTER is holding the BTC until deliveries are made, and burning any left over BAY that remains unsold.  I assume they will leave the market open on there - although it might close briefly during the burn-deliver phase.

Not official, but if that doesn't happen then I think things will have definitely gotten off on the wrong foot.

Thank you for explaining! Where the BAY are delivered after ICO, and when?

? They're in your account already.  They are delivered upon purchase.  (Am I missing something here?)

If you mean where can they be delivered, you can either transfer them out of the exchange to a wallet (which must be delivered after ICO close), transfer to a different exchange, or leave them on BTER. 

[MemoryShock]

Can someone explain how it will go after ICO?
Bay are converted to an other value on bter?
I can trade BAY after ICO on bter?

You own them... you should be able to trade BAY on any exchange that has a pairing for it.  I think you can safely assume after the amount of volume involved in the ICO itself, that there are more than one exchange that will be adding the pairing almost instantly in order to capitalize on some of that volume.

BTER is holding the BTC until deliveries are made, and burning any left over BAY that remains unsold.  I assume they will leave the market open on there - although it might close briefly during the burn-deliver phase.

Not official, but if that doesn't happen then I think things will have definitely gotten off on the wrong foot.

Thank you for explaining! Where the BAY are delivered after ICO, and when?

? They're in your account already.  They are delivered upon purchase.  (Am I missing something here?)

Not missing anything.  The Bay purchased are in your BTer account and once the wallet is released you will be able to transfer immediately - or to a different exchange if desired (that seems like a crazy move though...).

I have to say that I am impressed with the level of discourse from the BitBay Team and of course David.  I'd rather look back and say I lost a few BTC then look back and say I missed an opportunity I was fully aware of.  Cautiously optimistic here...

[digicidal]

Not missing anything.  The Bay purchased are in your BTer account and once the wallet is released you will be able to transfer immediately - or to a different exchange if desired (that seems like a crazy move though...).

I have to say that I am impressed with the level of discourse from the BitBay Team and of course David.  I'd rather look back and say I lost a few BTC then look back and say I missed an opportunity I was fully aware of.  Cautiously optimistic here...

Me too.  I'm fully prepared to throw more BTC at this as it develops... bought all I felt comfortable risking initially - but if this project only pulls off 50% of what they're aiming for... it's gonna be one hell of a ride.

For the completely skeptical fudsters out there... look at it this way:  if this wound up being a huge scam... it will possibly end altcoin development (and certainly ICO releases) entirely.  So I see it as a worthwhile investment even in that sense.  I don't believe that is the case, and I'm looking forward to actually using this coin even more than I am in profiting from the investment itself.

That being said... scams are almost like air on this site - literally everywhere you go, there they are.  However, most of them have a clear lack of talent at the helm and are pretty easily avoided.  This team seems exactly the opposite - they're almost over-qualified for the tasks at hand.

[BitBay Team]

Momimaus you have been requested to stop with your "wild guesses" (your own words) about the nature of the Blackcoin involvement with BitBay. An involvement which has no basis in fact. Yet you chose to repeat and amplify your fudding.

We intend to hold this thread as an arena of civil discourse about BitBay and associated technology. As stated in earlier posts, fudding about other coins and unfounded, malicious posts will not be tolerated.

Thanks.

BitBay Team
 

[Black_Hand]

why only BTER?