Cloud Mining - Please help a newbie

[Sonny]

With Paycoin switching to PoS, the bitcoin difficulty is finally expected to go back up in the next change.

https://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/difficulty
Bitcoin Difficulty: 39,457,671,307
Estimated Next Difficulty: 39,987,748,022 (+1.34%)
Adjust time: After 591 Blocks, About 3.9 days

[1713945277]

1713945277

[1713945277]

1713945277

[1713945277]

1713945277

[picolo]

With Paycoin switching to PoS, the bitcoin difficulty is finally expected to go back up in the next change.

https://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/difficulty
Bitcoin Difficulty: 39,457,671,307
Estimated Next Difficulty: 39,987,748,022 (+1.34%)
Adjust time: After 591 Blocks, About 3.9 days

When does paycoin switch from PoW to PoS?

Bitcoin difficulty is probably going to rise slowly in a few days, nothing to worry about.

[inBitweTrust]

When does paycoin switch from PoW to PoS?

Bitcoin difficulty is probably going to rise slowly in a few days, nothing to worry about.

Already happened days ago , and thus the rise in BTC diff.

FYI...
   
cloudminr.io that you are promoting in your sig is a likely ponzi. Research for yourself:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=878387

Stay away from that company until they can clear their name!

[tins]

Cloud mining still profit??

If profitable, which many people feel is no longer probable, it will be a long, long, long time until you realize a return on your investment. A more prudent option would be to simply use your funds to purchase the coin and wait it out....making sure to use a reputable company or individual.

[picolo]

When does paycoin switch from PoW to PoS?

Bitcoin difficulty is probably going to rise slowly in a few days, nothing to worry about.

Already happened days ago , and thus the rise in BTC diff.

FYI...
   
cloudminr.io that you are promoting in your sig is a likely ponzi. Research for yourself:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=878387

Stay away from that company until they can clear their name!

I saw this thread where they are not ranked well. I agree people should be careful when investing in cloud mining sites.

I am not working for them, I just rent my signature space. They have been paying on time in GHS so I hope they are here to stay . I noted some positive signs that makes me optimistic : they stopped the signature campaign and they are handling the business well.

[inBitweTrust]

I am not working for them, I just rent my signature space.

An affiliate is a type of employee. You are renting your time and reputation here on BT for a chance to get a few sheckles. You are employeed by them and can mislead newbies into investing into a likely ponzi.

I noted some positive signs that makes me optimistic : they stopped the signature campaign and they are handling the business well.

If they stopped the sig campaign than why do you still promote them? Please remove that signature before more people are duped.

You are part of the problem but you can do the right thing to change that and raise your standards.

I'm not trying to be an asshole and you are probably a decent person and have just been duped into thinking promoting likely ponzi's is ethically acceptable because the prevalence seen here. It is not. We need to raise our standards and limit the scandals. Cloud mining companies need to be more much more transparent.

[Johny Depp]

I am not working for them, I just rent my signature space.

An affiliate is a type of employee. You are renting your time and reputation here on BT for a chance to get a few sheckles. You are employeed by them and can mislead newbies into investing into a likely ponzi.

I noted some positive signs that makes me optimistic : they stopped the signature campaign and they are handling the business well.

If they stopped the sig campaign than why do you still promote them? Please remove that signature before more people are duped.

You are part of the problem but you can do the right thing to change that and raise your standards.

I'm not trying to be an asshole and you are probably a decent person and have just been duped into thinking promoting likely ponzi's is ethically acceptable because the prevalence seen here. It is not. We need to raise our standards and limit the scandals. Cloud mining companies need to be more much more transparent.

He is not an employee. He is the employer.

He is not a part of the problem. He is the problem.

picolo = CLOUDMINR.IO

Details: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=850784.msg9943171#msg9943171

[kotwica666]

I am not working for them, I just rent my signature space.

An affiliate is a type of employee. You are renting your time and reputation here on BT for a chance to get a few sheckles. You are employeed by them and can mislead newbies into investing into a likely ponzi.

If you give me proof that this Service is Ponzi Scheme directly I'm calling police. It is the duty of every citizen! If you hide such information you also can be punished! Remember!

[inBitweTrust]

I am not working for them, I just rent my signature space.

An affiliate is a type of employee. You are renting your time and reputation here on BT for a chance to get a few sheckles. You are employeed by them and can mislead newbies into investing into a likely ponzi.

If you give me proof that this Service is Ponzi Scheme directly I'm calling police. It is the duty of every citizen! If you hide such information you also can be punished! Remember!

I provided the evidence already and suggested it was a likely scam not definitive scam(suggesting such would be ridiculous). Most things in life aren't certain and asking me to provide definitive proof outside of discussing logical and conceptual absolutes is displaying ignorance to what knowledge represents.

We know there is good evidence to suggest this is a likely ponzi. Thus participating as a client or employee is highly discouraged until the company can address the communities concerns which is trivial to do and if they are legitimate would help their business be profitable.

This isn't our first rodeo and we have heard the same criticism before when we condemned PBmining(ponzi) and all the clients, shill accounts, and owners criticized us for being too strident. We have set the bar incredibly low for them to provide a speck of evidence they are legit and the fact that they aren't answering the questions is very telling.

Details: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=850784.msg9943171#msg9943171

That is some damning evidence there.

[picolo]

I am not working for them, I just rent my signature space.

An affiliate is a type of employee. You are renting your time and reputation here on BT for a chance to get a few sheckles. You are employeed by them and can mislead newbies into investing into a likely ponzi.

I noted some positive signs that makes me optimistic : they stopped the signature campaign and they are handling the business well.

If they stopped the sig campaign than why do you still promote them? Please remove that signature before more people are duped.

You are part of the problem but you can do the right thing to change that and raise your standards.

I'm not trying to be an asshole and you are probably a decent person and have just been duped into thinking promoting likely ponzi's is ethically acceptable because the prevalence seen here. It is not. We need to raise our standards and limit the scandals. Cloud mining companies need to be more much more transparent.

If I thought it was a ponzi I would not have start to be part of the signature campaign. I don't think cloudminr is a ponzi but they have not given all necessary information to assure it's not one.
If it was a p, I would lose all payments I received in the form of GHS so I would not have earned from advertising them.

Cloudminr is still giving me free GHS to keep the signature. There are many cloud mining sites that are not more established than cloudminr and have signature campaigns...

Cloudminr has been paying me and I have not seen their mining facilities but I don't think I have to go as far as being a cloud mining expert to advertise them!

[inBitweTrust]

If it was a p, I would lose all payments I received in the form of GHS so I would not have earned from advertising them.

Flaw in reasoning. Whether or not some individuals profit has no bearing on whether something is a ponzi or not. Some individuals made profit with PBmining.

Cloudminr is still giving me free GHS to keep the signature. There are many cloud mining sites that are not more established than cloudminr and have signature campaigns...

Cloudminr has been paying me and I have not seen their mining facilities but I don't think I have to go as far as being a cloud mining expert to advertise them!

You just finished telling me they stopped their sig campaign above. Which is it , they stopped it or they are paying out?

It has nothing to do with being an expert. Others have shown and provided evidence they are a likely ponzi. You are just rationalizing your behavior.

[kotwica666]

I am not working for them, I just rent my signature space.

An affiliate is a type of employee. You are renting your time and reputation here on BT for a chance to get a few sheckles. You are employeed by them and can mislead newbies into investing into a likely ponzi.

If you give me proof that this Service is Ponzi Scheme directly I'm calling police. It is the duty of every citizen! If you hide such information you also can be punished! Remember!

I provided the evidence already and suggested it was a likely scam not definitive scam(suggesting such would be ridiculous). Most things in life aren't certain and asking me to provide definitive proof outside of discussing logical and conceptual absolutes is displaying ignorance to what knowledge represents.

We know there is good evidence to suggest this is a likely ponzi. Thus participating as a client or employee is highly discouraged until the company can address the communities concerns which is trivial to do and if they are legitimate would help their business be profitable.

This isn't our first rodeo and we have heard the same criticism before when we condemned PBmining(ponzi) and all the clients, shill accounts, and owners criticized us for being too strident. We have set the bar incredibly low for them to provide a speck of evidence they are legit and the fact that they aren't answering the questions is very telling.

Details: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=850784.msg9943171#msg9943171

That is some damning evidence there.

Ok. Just say that was your sugesstion/opinion and we close this case..

[inBitweTrust]

Ok. Just say that was your sugesstion/opinion and we close this case..

What a daft comment to make. How would it be possible for me to express anything other than my own opinion?
Should we commence with a seance so I can be possessed to speak another person's opinion?

My opinions are backed by evidence. It is the evidence I direct you towards refuting. Otherwise, I take it that we should withhold judgment from any potential scam because there may be a 1% chance they are legit.  

If it is trivial to address the communities concerns and if in doing so (and they are legitimate) it would help their business be profitable why aren't they?

Use some common sense and raise your standards(evidentiary and ethical).

[newIndia]

With Paycoin switching to PoS, the bitcoin difficulty is finally expected to go back up in the next change.

https://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/difficulty
Bitcoin Difficulty: 39,457,671,307
Estimated Next Difficulty: 39,987,748,022 (+1.34%)
Adjust time: After 591 Blocks, About 3.9 days

After 2 consecutive drop, difficulty is on the rise again.

[maurya78]

There has been a prolioferation of cloud mining scams recently
Unless you know what you are doing, I would not get into it

[BTCXE]

do not buy cloud mining unless brand is reputable (ie has proven to ship, own and run mining hardware)

[inBitweTrust]

do not buy cloud mining unless brand is reputable (ie has proven to ship, own and run mining hardware)

This is only part of the equation as their are many other reasons to avoid cloud mining:

1) Increases centralization which is bad for the bitcoin ecosystem vs buying asic hardware yourself
2) Rates often are unprofitable - Use a decent calculator https://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/calculator and enter in an expected average difficulty 5-20% to see if ROI

Please check here as a starting point for research into credibility of cloud mining.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=878387.msg9697654#msg9697654

Companies that aren't labeled as ponzis can still be scams as well , but this is the minimum bar one must look at as a starting point.

[BTCXE]

do not buy cloud mining unless brand is reputable (ie has proven to ship, own and run mining hardware)

This is only part of the equation as their are many other reasons to avoid cloud mining:

1) Increases centralization which is bad for the bitcoin ecosystem vs buying asic hardware yourself
2) Rates often are unprofitable - Use a decent calculator https://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/calculator and enter in an expected average difficulty 5-20% to see if ROI

Please check here as a starting point for research into credibility of cloud mining.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=878387.msg9697654#msg9697654

Companies that aren't labeled as ponzis can still be scams as well , but this is the minimum bar one must look at as a starting point.

1) how does it increase centralization ? Last time i checked (will vary on exact service model provided, but still) cloudmining doesnt attribute new mining, rather transfer ownership of existing hashrates. Depending on exact terms of service, theoretically users can aid DEcentralization by selecting alternative pools

2) yes. and no. far too many, far too volatile factors will shape the final return. Whilst obviously everyone wants to make money, the ROI is near impossible to accurately predict. I'd say cloudmining shouldnt be seen as a sure-fire way to make  money,rather it should be seen as a way to try out mining without taking on the risk of spending > $2k on mining hardware then have to have all the associated headaches (cooling, storage, noise, maintenance delays etc). You can switch on / switch off your cloudmining at any point, and see daily BTC returns (even if miserly) and at worst, youre risking 10-15 bucks to learn first hand. On the other hand if you make a paltry 5mBtc per day for a year and Bitcoin raises by 30-40% you could see a significant ROI.

basically its low-entry, low-risk mining - users can try it, hate / love it, continue / dump it without ending up with the world's most expensive heater in the garage

i agree its a complex process, but i cant see how it hinders the BTC ecosystem or how anyone can say with confidence what their ROI will be

[ranochigo]

do not buy cloud mining unless brand is reputable (ie has proven to ship, own and run mining hardware)

This is only part of the equation as their are many other reasons to avoid cloud mining:

1) Increases centralization which is bad for the bitcoin ecosystem vs buying asic hardware yourself
2) Rates often are unprofitable - Use a decent calculator https://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/calculator and enter in an expected average difficulty 5-20% to see if ROI

Please check here as a starting point for research into credibility of cloud mining.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=878387.msg9697654#msg9697654

Companies that aren't labeled as ponzis can still be scams as well , but this is the minimum bar one must look at as a starting point.

1) how does it increase centralization ? Last time i checked (will vary on exact service model provided, but still) cloudmining doesnt attribute new mining, rather transfer ownership of existing hashrates. Depending on exact terms of service, theoretically users can aid DEcentralization by selecting alternative pools

2) yes. and no. far too many, far too volatile factors will shape the final return. Whilst obviously everyone wants to make money, the ROI is near impossible to accurately predict. I'd say cloudmining shouldnt be seen as a sure-fire way to make  money,rather it should be seen as a way to try out mining without taking on the risk of spending > $2k on mining hardware then have to have all the associated headaches (cooling, storage, noise, maintenance delays etc). You can switch on / switch off your cloudmining at any point, and see daily BTC returns (even if miserly) and at worst, youre risking 10-15 bucks to learn first hand. On the other hand if you make a paltry 5mBtc per day for a year and Bitcoin raises by 30-40% you could see a significant ROI.

basically its low-entry, low-risk mining - users can try it, hate / love it, continue / dump it without ending up with the world's most expensive heater in the garage

i agree its a complex process, but i cant see how it hinders the BTC ecosystem or how anyone can say with confidence what their ROI will be

1) You cannot choose a specific pool to mine on. Most pool (if not all) calculate payout based on the selected pool's 24 hour payout stats and still mining at their own pool, if they offer this feature. Transferring of shares means the payout is going to you. The hardware is still mining and the hashpower is under the cloudhashing owner's control. They can do whatever they want with it.

2)Cloudmining will never ROI, you wouldnt get more BTC out of cloudmining than buying the BTC directly. If Bitcoin rises that much, you may ROI but chances are, you would get more profit if you bought and hold the BTC in the first place.

[inBitweTrust]

1) how does it increase centralization ? Last time i checked (will vary on exact service model provided, but still) cloudmining doesnt attribute new mining, rather transfer ownership of existing hashrates. Depending on exact terms of service, theoretically users can aid DEcentralization by selecting alternative pools

Centralization of the hardware , just like storing all your coins at mtgox , leads to security concerns... owners stealing hardware, theives targeting mining centers , fires, network outages, ect...

2) yes. and no. far too many, far too volatile factors will shape the final return. Whilst obviously everyone wants to make money, the ROI is near impossible to accurately predict. I'd say cloudmining shouldnt be seen as a sure-fire way to make  money,rather it should be seen as a way to try out mining without taking on the risk of spending > $2k on mining hardware then have to have all the associated headaches (cooling, storage, noise, maintenance delays etc). You can switch on / switch off your cloudmining at any point, and see daily BTC returns (even if miserly) and at worst, youre risking 10-15 bucks to learn first hand. On the other hand if you make a paltry 5mBtc per day for a year and Bitcoin raises by 30-40% you could see a significant ROI.

While a calculator cannot determine the expected future difficulty it gives a rough idea if you map out a range of possibilities and buying BTC directly is far less risky despite what you say.