Canada joins the dollar dumping team, signs a deal with China to bypass it

[Lethn]

Running around in a panic? I've calculated this, all that's left for me now is to accumulate as many Bitcoins, Gold and Silver and in my case Gemstones as I can and I'll be pretty damn secure, it's the poor sods who actually listen to people like you who are in denial about the state of the economy that I'm worried about.

I could go through all the detail of the money supply and how currency is created but I seriously doubt you're going to pay any attention to that.

[1713529133]

1713529133

[worle1bm]

Running around in a panic? I've calculated this, all that's left for me now is to accumulate as many Bitcoins, Gold and Silver and in my case Gemstones as I can and I'll be pretty damn secure, it's the poor sods who actually listen to people like you who are in denial about the state of the economy that I'm worried about.

I could go through all the detail of the money supply and how currency is created but I seriously doubt you're going to pay any attention to that.

So, put your head in the sand when anyone challenges your opinions? Typical

[Lethn]

LOL! When did you challenge my opinion? All you did is make assertions, that's not challenging them.

[practicaldreamer]

China has been planning it for awhile now and Russia is openly talking about it

Russia doesn't really matter for a myriad of reasons; isolation, sanctions, lack of access to capital markets, stalling economy, etc.

Yes - so long as Europe continues to play ball - it might be dancing to a different tune this winter, though, when the gas supply dries up

"Fuck yeah America!" types just simply don't understand how money is created and works or for that matter how little America actually produces and exports.

Consequently, you have folks online who read enough crappy "news" stories and think the sky is falling. What are the stats on America's imports and exports by the way? Especially in relation to others? I'd like to see how little it is.

The United States recorded a trade deficit of $43,030,000,000  in September of 2014.
Seems pretty significant to me.

[worle1bm]

The United States recorded a trade deficit of $43,030,000,000  in September of 2014.
Seems pretty significant to me.

Why?

Also, his assertion wasn't that it was significant, rather that the U.S. doesn't produce much. Which, from your link, is born out as false as the U.S. exported almost $200 billion.

[worle1bm]

LOL! When did you challenge my opinion? All you did is make assertions, that's not challenging them.

It's not the currency swap that's the problem for America, it's the fact that they're planning to dump the dollar, China has been planning it for awhile now and Russia is openly talking about it, who else is left to hold it? You also have various countries trying to get their gold back, the "Fuck yeah America!" types just simply don't understand how money is created and works or for that matter how little America actually produces and exports.

So, this is basically just FUD.

Let's go one at a time.

It's not the currency swap that's the problem for America, it's the fact that they're planning to dump the dollar,

Canada isn't dumping the dollar, that's not what is happening. The title is misleading, intentionally.

China has been planning it for awhile now and Russia is openly talking about it

Sure, both countries have an interest in the U.S. dollar losing reserve status. Russia doesn't really matter for a myriad of reasons; isolation, sanctions, lack of access to capital markets, stalling economy, etc. China has a strong interest in weakening the dollar, definitely.

who else is left to hold it?

Literally the rest of the world. You named two countries dude. Seriously, who else?

You also have various countries trying to get their gold back

Who?

"Fuck yeah America!" types just simply don't understand how money is created and works or for that matter how little America actually produces and exports.

Consequently, you have folks online who read enough crappy "news" stories and think the sky is falling. What are the stats on America's imports and exports by the way? Especially in relation to others? I'd like to see how little it is.

[practicaldreamer]

The United States recorded a trade deficit of $43,030,000,000  in September of 2014.
Seems pretty significant to me.

Why?

   Well, when combined with the $16,000,000,000,000 of Government debt, the slow but inexorable/inevitable drift away from USD as world reserve currency, the printing of $ bills as if they were going out of fashion, the growing power of China/Russia/India on the world stage and as competitors for diminishing and scarce natural resources - when combined with these factors the trade deficit figures pretty succinctly paint a picture of a country living beyond its means.

    And there's only so long you can sustain that $700 billion p.a. military spending - right ? Thats 40% of the worlds total spending on the miltary FFS.



   Generations to come will be paying for the debt that your corporate overmasters and their political bitches are currently running up on your account.

  Thats my take on why its significant anyhow.

What ? - don't you think this debt matters ? It'll all come out in the wash ? 

[worle1bm]

 Well, when combined with the $16,000,000,000,000 of Government debt,

Sure, pretty well documented.

the slow but inexorable/inevitable drift away from USD as world reserve currency,

Why is this inevitable? Why would the USD lose reserve currency status?

the printing of $ bills as if they were going out of fashion,

Why does this matter? If your fears were accurate, wouldn't the rise in money supply correspond to ballooning inflation? Where is the inflation?

the growing power of China/Russia/India on the world stage and as competitors for diminishing and scarce natural resources

Not sure what his has to do with the dollar. There will always be competition. This just seems like vague fearmongering. "CHINA RUSSIA INDIA" So what? What are the exact concerns? How will these rising powers impact the U.S.?

- when combined with these factors the trade deficit figures pretty succinctly paint a picture of a country living beyond its means.

Wouldn't that mean the dollar was losing value? If the U.S. were living beyond its means you would see competitors and exporters accepting fewer dollars overall, or valuing the dollar lower. The opposite is happening. I think you've just arbitrarily decided this is the case, when the economic inputs would suggest the opposite.

And there's only so long you can sustain that $700 billion p.a. military spending - right ? Thats 40% of the worlds total spending on the miltary FFS.

Why? If we can budget it every year, we can keep affording it. The fact that it is a high overall percentage of the worlds spending isn't relevant, aside from creating a false dilemma.

Generations to come will be paying for the debt that your corporate overmasters and their political bitches are currently running up on your account.

AND THE SEAS SHALL RUNNETH OVER AND THE STARS SHALL FALL FROM THE HEAVENS!

You just sound like a Sunday preacher who doesn't have any facts so he relies on dramatic predictions. HALLELUJAH!

Thats my take on why its significant anyhow.

That's cool, I just disagree.

What ? - don't you think this debt matters ? It'll all come out in the wash ? 

Yeah, I don't think the federal debt matters. The way our system is structured it basically doesn't matter. We owe most of it to ourselves, so it isn't like normal debt. People, especially on the internet, throw debt around as though it is all the same; it isn't.

[IBGigglin]

Running around in a panic? I've calculated this, all that's left for me now is to accumulate as many Bitcoins, Gold and Silver and in my case Gemstones as I can and I'll be pretty damn secure, it's the poor sods who actually listen to people like you who are in denial about the state of the economy that I'm worried about.

I could go through all the detail of the money supply and how currency is created but I seriously doubt you're going to pay any attention to that.

+1000

People here in America will only wake up when it's too late. The media here has truly skullfucked a majority of it's citizens. It will be the same pathetic look on everyones faces just like when the stock market collapsed in 2008. "The OMFG HOW COULD THIS HAPPEN, IVE WORKED SO HARD AND PAID WHATS HIS NUTS SO MUCH MONEY AND NOW EVERYTHINGS GONE." then America will do what it does best. Rebuild.

[practicaldreamer]

    The dollar has dropped 25% over the last 10 years against Chinese yuan. Just depends what you want to compare it against I suppose. If you were to look at USD against the Euro (Greece, Spain et al), then yes, its probably holding up OK - or against Zimbawain dollars.
      (The Euro has also declined against CNY by a similar rate to the USD BTW - a pattern emerging here  )

     Maybe you are right mate - maybe the US military complex can prop the US up at current levels for another generation. Maybe, in spite of massive QE, inflation won't kick in. Maybe Russia/China and friends will continue to be happy at indirectly propping up the US by using USD in international trade. Maybe China will have continued confidence at the prudent and judicious handling of the US economy by TPTB - and so decide not to slowly offload its debt, thereby plunging the US into turmoil. Maybe inflation will kick in and erode your debt away.

   Maybe future generations won't have to pay the debt.

Maybe the moon is made of green cheese-

       

[IBGigglin]

Zimbabwe currency

I have a one hundred trillion dollar note taped on my refrigerator.
People ask about it all the time and argue that theres no way it's real or that and that it could never happen in the states.

   

[worle1bm]

The dollar has dropped 25% over the last 10 years against Chinese yuan.

A more accurate way of saying it is that the yuan has risen against the dollar, as the dollar has stayed pretty consistent versus a wider array of currencies.

Just depends what you want to compare it against I suppose. If you were to look at USD against the Euro (Greece, Spain et al), then yes, its probably holding up OK - or against Zimbawain dollars.

Right, so again the trend would appear to be that the yuan is rising in value as opposed to the dollar falling.

      (The Euro has also declined against CNY by a similar rate to the USD BTW - a pattern emerging here  )

So, here again, it's the same thing. I don't think you understand what you're arguing.

Maybe you are right mate - maybe the US military complex can prop the US up at current levels for another generation. Maybe, in spite of massive QE, inflation won't kick in.

Where is the inflation? I have already asked and you can't provide answers. Where is the inflation that was supposed to accompany QE and the money supply increase?

Maybe Russia/China and friends will continue to be happy at indirectly propping up the US by using USD in international trade. Maybe China will have continued confidence at the prudent and judicious handling of the US economy by TPTB - and so decide not to slowly offload its debt, thereby plunging the US into turmoil. Maybe inflation will kick in and erode your debt away.

Maybe you'll continue to dodge answering my questions and providing sources. Maybe you can keep repeating the same nonsense till you legitimately believe it. Maybe you'll spend the majority of your life waiting for the collapse, spreading FUD on internet forums. Or maybe you'll realize this crap is considered a fringe belief for a reason.

[Swordsoffreedom]

Running around in a panic? I've calculated this, all that's left for me now is to accumulate as many Bitcoins, Gold and Silver and in my case Gemstones as I can and I'll be pretty damn secure, it's the poor sods who actually listen to people like you who are in denial about the state of the economy that I'm worried about.

I could go through all the detail of the money supply and how currency is created but I seriously doubt you're going to pay any attention to that.

+1000

 then America will do what it does best. Rebuild.

Only if they allow new competitors to grow and compete in the sphere
Aka don't overburden them in regulatory oversight because they have to appeal to the big bankers or corporations entrenched in the system
Could look at the whole New York Bitcoin regulations as an example of that problem.

[BIT-Sharon]

It will be convenient for people in Canada to invest on Chinese Market and it is a boon for Canada, because China is an big country of export and import with huge consumption customers.   

[practicaldreamer]

..God bless America...quote sources...talking out yer bum etc...

You argued that QE/trade deficit etc hasn't devalued the dollar - I said, but it has devalued 25% over 10 years against CYN - you say thats crap, its the CYN thats appreciated against the $  , and the $ is holding up just fine against the national currencies of its colonies 

You argue that there is now no significant inflation in the US and so therefore there never will be - I ask you to consider the situation should China start dumping US treasuries /bonds on top of the Fed trying to frantically print its way out of trouble - you tell me to quote sources etc

Bluster/blah blah/bollocks and more bluster.

But you know what - I think you are right. Today I'm going to sell up and go all in on the USD.

How about you ?


ps. Google is your friend.

[worle1bm]

You argued that QE/trade deficit etc hasn't devalued the dollar - I said, but it has devalued 25% over 10 years against CYN - you say thats crap, its the CYN thats appreciated against the $  , and the $ is holding up just fine against the national currencies of its colonies 

Yeah, that's pretty much the gist of it. When the USD is holding value versus 9/10 currencies the trend is that the outlier is rising against the dollar, rather than the dollar falling. That's simple statistical analysis.

You argue that there is now no significant inflation in the US and so therefore there never will be -

That isn't my argument, never was. Can you show me where I said this?

I ask you to consider the situation should China start dumping US treasuries /bonds on top of the Fed trying to frantically print its way out of trouble - you tell me to quote sources etc

You've never mentioned this before, can you show me where you did?

Bluster/blah blah/bollocks and more bluster.

You've summed up your replies pretty well, yeah.

But you know what - I think you are right. Today I'm going to sell up and go all in on the USD.

How about you ?

Cool, go for it. I'm not going to hold a currency as an investment, though. That's pretty stupid.

ps. Google is your friend.

P.S. Data and analysis are your friends, not random internet articles and searches.

[practicaldreamer]

You argued that QE/trade deficit etc hasn't devalued the dollar - I said, but it has devalued 25% over 10 years against CYN - you say thats crap, its the CYN thats appreciated against the $  , and the $ is holding up just fine against the national currencies of its colonies  

Yeah, that's pretty much the gist of it. When the USD is holding value versus 9/10 currencies the trend is that the outlier is rising against the dollar, rather than the dollar falling. That's simple statistical analysis.

Yeah - the problem here is that this particular "outlier" has the largest GDP of any economy in the world at $17.6 trillion (or 16.48 percent of the world’s purchasing-power) (source:- the IMF).


    Even putting the CNY aside, on a trade weighted USD index against all major currencies (based on a value of 100 in March 1973) the dollar has dropped from a peak of 143 in March 1985 to a present value of 82.5 !  (source :- [id]=TWEXMMTH]The Fed Reserve Bank of St Louis ).
     WTF is going on here - I dunno    Looks like China might not be such an outlier after all (I could be wrong but I don't think the major currencies above included CNY in the calcs)



    Many economists have even conjectured that the Euro could take over the USD to become a world reserve currency, given that the value of euros held in foreign government reserves nearly tripled, from $393 billion to $1.45 trillion between 2008 and 2013  (source IMF COFER table)


   The US is living beyond its means - it could manage to sustain its inflated standard of living in a world where its "means" were augmented by its world economic (and military) imperialist dominance.

    But those days have come and gone.

    Russia, for eg. (who you wrote off above "Russia doesn't really matter for a myriad of reasons" ), managed to quell US ambitions on Iranian oil via a prospective conquest of Syria. Even the Ukraine has gone tits up for the US (and they've had designs on it for at least a half century (Source:- Kim Philby, My Private War, 1967)) - especially since the strategically important Crimea voted overwhelmingly to stay a part of Russia. Maybe Russia is slightly more significant than you give it credit for  
    And the US game of making loans to developing countries in order that they build roads (built by US firms, so thereby ensuring that USD never actually leaves the US), charging interest rates to put the developing countries natural resources at the beck and call of the US kleptocracy (Source,John Perkins, Confessions of an econominc Hitman, 2006 ) , well, that game has been mastered by the Chinese TBH.



    The Chinese have said that if the US doesn't reduce its debt it will start offloading its US Treasuries/bonds - and when their export markets have expanded and domestic demand has grown they might well be in a position to do just that. Even the odd threat of it causes the dollar to plunge.  

They aren't bluffing - and if/when they do, lets come back here and talk about US inflation rates.

Except I won't be doing it with you cos you're a troll and you are now ignored.

[worle1bm]

Why is it that you are unable to answer the questions I pose to you?

[Seketsuna]

Why is it that you are unable to answer the questions I pose to you?

he is out of words i suppose.

[ScreamnShout]

at this pace dollar reserves will become useless real soon and will be dumped.
thats when America gets to import its inflation back.

I guess this depends on your definition of "soon". Both Canada and China still deal in terms of US dollars with their trade with other countries and both hold massive amounts of dollars as their own foreign reserves (especially China, to the tune of trillions of dollars).